EPT2 new polls on the Blizzard Remastered forum - Page 3
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria409 Posts
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AntiHack
Switzerland553 Posts
We have replays for that, don't we? | ||
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kurtisg
2 Posts
On June 21 2019 23:04 outscar wrote: Fuck supply count, fuck worker count, fuck all that extra info when game is LIVE! I wanna watch game, not analyze the shit out of it. Stop fucking turning this game and alienate it with SC2 BS. Add only for reps. Go die of cancer User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
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JonttuTonttu
81 Posts
On June 21 2019 23:04 outscar wrote: Fuck supply count, fuck worker count, fuck all that extra info when game is LIVE! I wanna watch game, not analyze the shit out of it. Stop fucking turning this game and alienate it with SC2 BS. Add only for reps. I was thinking more for the player himself and reps but if people have a really good reason + maybe examples of why it'd ruin the suspense™ then maybe it doesn't have to be added into observer mode. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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Moataz
Egypt267 Posts
If you want workers' count in SCR single/multiplayer, you can use one of the maps there, all of them has it, thanks Blizzard  , We can do it ourselves!. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1451 Posts
Supply count and shit were still there during Korean casting back when pro scene was around If you watch asl/ksl, observers constantly drag over workers to count missing worker counts and casters do quick maths in Korean cast to count missing workers (especially that best series and mine debak). If they can click on each vulture to count kc before it dies, they do that too. Then theres the whole dragging over workers post damage. What exactly are these posters against when they are infatuated with the supposed """surprise element""" when casters literally manually count these and explain/analyze it for you in Korean cast? I can understand production tab argument since it creates hype when things are tight, but casters literally point out these information(worker damage, eco damage), albeit bit delayed due to manual counting. On June 21 2019 23:04 outscar wrote: Fuck supply count, fuck worker count, fuck all that extra info when game is LIVE! I wanna watch game, not analyze the shit out of it. Stop fucking turning this game and alienate it with SC2 BS. Add only for reps. Korean cast literally have caster responsible for hype and another former progamer caster responsible for analysis. Thats the whole point of casting. Create hype and explain purpose of plays for casuals, creating more hype/anticipation. What are you even watching for if you are against analysis lmao. Fireworks? | ||
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[AS]Rattus
427 Posts
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seriosity
United States214 Posts
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JonttuTonttu
81 Posts
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Jealous
10203 Posts
On June 22 2019 23:42 JonttuTonttu wrote: It's funny how much more the Korean audience seems to be open minded when it comes to StarCraft and potential for *gasp* change for the better. Seems like they are more interested in the game rather than seeing the scene as some sort of hipster elitist club past time or whatever it is for some people, I just can't figure out what some people think the danger is in trying to better some aspects of the game or alternatively offering rational arguments to the contrary based on sound logic, for example by citing examples. Just because people don't think that haphazardly buffing some random unit that OP really likes because it's a floating crab or forcing noobs to play on shit tier maps that have no learning materials associated with them are good ideas doesn't mean that those people are elitists or hipsters or whatever you want to call them. The burden of proof isn't on the people who support the status quo, it is on people who fancy themselves amateur balance patchers or champions of the noobs' plight but don't actually contribute anything beyond a half-baked thread once in a blue moon, or sporting a monotonous post history spent bitching about the status of the game. YOU have to demonstrate that making these changes would attract new players, perhaps by starting a league that only uses those maps and trying to pool people from pub games on Battle.net, or inviting your (hypothetically extant) friends from real life to try out the game and getting feedback from them. YOU have to demonstrate that buffing air crabs will not significantly affect balance - make a custom map, run a tournament for high level foreigners/pros, and analyze from there. YOU have to implement probe counts in a streamed games between high level players (perhaps you can use 1.16 + those tools) and gather viewers and get impressions. And it can't be just "one-and-done" either, you have to actually run it like a study. What I mean by this is, just because you and some other noob played on CrabbingSpirit.scx and neither of you had any qualms about it, doesn't provide any evidence that it is a good change for BW as a whole. In order to disrupt the extant system, one has to provide sufficient evidence for the necessity of doing so. No matter how much you may weigh your theorycrafting and feelgood intentions towards lower level players as actual contributions, at the end of the day you have actually contributed nothing but comical threads and nothing more. It's easy to lay back and talk badly about the "elitists" while doing absolutely nothing besides yabbering on forums or shitposting on Discord. Meanwhile, people are organizing noob-oriented leagues and tournaments, editing liquipedia, casting noob games, running Discords, so on and so forth. Until you become a person who actually does something and isn't all talk/bitching/moaning, don't be surprised that no one takes you seriously and no one cares what your vision for Brood War is. Be the change you want to see. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On June 22 2019 23:42 JonttuTonttu wrote: Well, think of it this way: Starcraft was niche across the west, so it attracted a certain personality type. Then, the game declined gradually as games expanded, like, the map aeon of strife turned into an entire genre. So a lot of casuals leave. The game is pretty small, so people who tend to take things very seriously, repeat things endlessly, fetishize and even worship the game, have an out sized impact on the scene. Not only do they drive out casuals by their attitude and the maps and before match maker, often the lopsided match ups in the scene, they reinforce each other. Elitists meet elitists and it grows. You get leagues where people are 'coached' the game. Practice practice practice. Your right on the money of course, the foreign broodwar scene is inundated with reactionary elitists who scorn all change or innovation. Often you will find they arent even very good players, they just know a couple builds on a couple maps really well...pathological thinking is all the craze here.It's funny how much more the Korean audience seems to be open minded when it comes to StarCraft and potential for *gasp* change for the better. Seems like they are more interested in the game rather than seeing the scene as some sort of hipster elitist club past time or whatever it is for some people, I just can't figure out what some people think the danger is in trying to better some aspects of the game or alternatively offering rational arguments to the contrary based on sound logic, for example by citing examples. You will honestly see people claim the game is perfectly balanced [all while their arguments circularly hinge on the games balance being contingent on changing map variables], or perfect in general. Its a bit of a cult if were honest. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1451 Posts
On June 22 2019 23:42 JonttuTonttu wrote: It's funny how much more the Korean audience seems to be open minded when it comes to StarCraft and potential for *gasp* change for the better. Seems like they are more interested in the game rather than seeing the scene as some sort of hipster elitist club past time or whatever it is for some people, I just can't figure out what some people think the danger is in trying to better some aspects of the game or alternatively offering rational arguments to the contrary based on sound logic, for example by citing examples. ...not really. I dont think majority of koreans really want big changes just some features that would return features back from pre scr. Theres this big talk if balance patches but most dont trust blizzard to do it in timely manner. I mean scr doesn't even have features promised at launch and is still working on 1v1 side. Will balance patch even be readable with this slowness? | ||
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Lopix
2 Posts
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JonttuTonttu
81 Posts
On June 23 2019 00:21 Jealous wrote: Just because people don't think that haphazardly buffing some random unit that OP really likes because it's a floating crab or forcing noobs to play on shit tier maps that have no learning materials associated with them are good ideas doesn't mean that those people are elitists or hipsters or whatever you want to call them. The burden of proof isn't on the people who support the status quo, it is on people who fancy themselves amateur balance patchers or champions of the noobs' plight but don't actually contribute anything beyond a half-baked thread once in a blue moon, or sporting a monotonous post history spent bitching about the status of the game. YOU have to demonstrate that making these changes would attract new players, perhaps by starting a league that only uses those maps and trying to pool people from pub games on Battle.net, or inviting your (hypothetically extant) friends from real life to try out the game and getting feedback from them. YOU have to demonstrate that buffing air crabs will not significantly affect balance - make a custom map, run a tournament for high level foreigners/pros, and analyze from there. YOU have to implement probe counts in a streamed games between high level players (perhaps you can use 1.16 + those tools) and gather viewers and get impressions. And it can't be just "one-and-done" either, you have to actually run it like a study. What I mean by this is, just because you and some other noob played on CrabbingSpirit.scx and neither of you had any qualms about it, doesn't provide any evidence that it is a good change for BW as a whole. In order to disrupt the extant system, one has to provide sufficient evidence for the necessity of doing so. No matter how much you may weigh your theorycrafting and feelgood intentions towards lower level players as actual contributions, at the end of the day you have actually contributed nothing but comical threads and nothing more. It's easy to lay back and talk badly about the "elitists" while doing absolutely nothing besides yabbering on forums or shitposting on Discord. Meanwhile, people are organizing noob-oriented leagues and tournaments, editing liquipedia, casting noob games, running Discords, so on and so forth. Until you become a person who actually does something and isn't all talk/bitching/moaning, don't be surprised that no one takes you seriously and no one cares what your vision for Brood War is. Be the change you want to see. Well my argument and response can be summed up as follows: 1. I am contributing in the way I think fits the situation best, i.e. I "bitch" on the forums primarily because I see TL.net and SC:R's forum to a lesser extent as think tanks where I can let people know what I think and collectively butt our wise heads together to ponder about the past, present and future state of Brood War, and less like fan clubs where we come together to one-up eachother on our knowledge of the game or the players involved with it. 2. I am also indirectly trying to contribute by trying to gather support for or present my case for why I think something should be changed (whether or not it includes crabs or not), so that there is a voice, that's loud enough that it can get something passed. The end result, if successful, being that the thing ends up in a future patch or some other place that even you cannot ignore, instead of some UMS map rotting away in the custom game list corner somewhere. A lot of this clearly has to do with perspective, and clearly our perspectives are quite different from oneanother. To you it probably looks like I'm threatening your lifes' work or something, or like I am trying to wreck the abalance/non-balance (I don't know if that's a word but now it is, after all there is no balance but neither is there imbalance, kinda pointless to talk about balance in its traditional meaning in an asymmetrical setting such as SC) to make all the work you've done to improve your skill and standing in rankings pointless. When it comes to this topic I would argue that the reason why for example StarCraft: Brood War is not as popular as say League of Legends or DoTA 2 is because of some of these things I've been trying highlight. It's no longer an excuse that LoL is free to play, since so is Brood War. Same thing with Eve Online, it's free to play now too as far as I know but still can't compete with a subscription-based MMORPG like World of Warcraft. So... | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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JonttuTonttu
81 Posts
On June 23 2019 08:52 Dazed. wrote: I literally had eight real life friends who were heavily into broodwar at one point, every single one of them quit citing a stale map pool and meta as the reason. I've seen dozens of players come and go for the same reason. This is nonsense, honestly. Its not a debate. You either reform and possibly the game has new life breathed into it, or the game dies in a few years but peters on like a wraith for a while. We are currently in a state of no growth for players, snail like paced growth in the meta, using a decade+ old map pool, all the famous and well liked players are nearing their 30s, and are walking with severe injuries that may knock them out of the game entirely. The onus is on us to argue against the status quo? You'd have to be pretty blind not to see that broodwars scene isnt in a good place. Don't really have anything to add to that other than that I agree. I think people forget that there have been other games in the past too that have had their moment too until all but the diehards and the 2 dozen to 50 or so players that stick around playing that game (their favorite game) and know each other are left, this is the story of every single game there is from the 90's and probably the last decade too at this point. Edit: I guess I could add that there is still AoE2, HoMM3 and maybe even a handful of others with more than a thousand people that play the game online along with BW. Although I've never really played AoE's more than 15 minutes or so and I'm not really interested in playing HoMM3 online as it seems a little too slow-paced in that format even for its genre since there is not much simultaneous participation from all players in a turn unlike in MoO2 for example, although that game is very different from the former too to say the least. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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JonttuTonttu
81 Posts
On June 23 2019 09:22 Dazed. wrote: saying aoe2 is alive because 1k people play it is like saying tribes 2 is alive. Yeah there are servers and you can get games, but the parties over. Sure but that's different from say playing the original Command & Conquer (C&C95 aka Tiberian Dawn) on CnCNet or MechCommander on GameRanger or maybe BattleZone II etc. etc. getting maybe 20 players at best and stuff like that. It's all relative so whatever | ||
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