US Politics Mega-Blog - Page 102

On December 12 2018 12:49 IgnE wrote:
I just don't know that you do yourself many favors by apparently taking the stance that China's slide into a total surveillance state of dystopian proportions is not really that different from the US. But yes, your point that slavery is probably worse than most Chinese citizens' lives is well taken.

On December 12 2018 13:00 xDaunt wrote:
This rather forced juxtaposition of GH's reminds me of a particularly inane English assignment I was given during my freshman year of high school. The teacher asked me to write a paper discussing and comparing the roles of women in Romeo and Juliet and Clan of the Cave Bear.

On December 12 2018 13:00 GreenHorizons wrote:


Your refusal to engage with substance of the argument presented reminds me of most interactions with people that hold similar views as your own.

On December 12 2018 13:09 xDaunt wrote:


I've been to China multiple times. My wife is Chinese and has family high up in the communist party. I'm quite familiar with the country and its level of policing. As Igne pointed out, there's nothing inaccurate about stating that the average Chinese person lives far better than a slave. But it's not a profound point. And comparing Chinese totalitarianism to American slavery is simply neither here nor there for all of the reasons that have been pointed out. You're barking up the wrong the tree.

On December 12 2018 13:14 GreenHorizons wrote:


I'm sure you understand why this seems to undermine the idea that you think they are actually totalitarian in any real sense of the word? Or demonstrates a complete disregard for your wife's family back in China?

I presume it's the former.

On December 12 2018 13:19 Plansix wrote:
Totalitarianism might not be the best term to discribe China, since they do not enforce complete subservience. They are not repressive of the average citizen through the threat of violence. It is more a social authoritarianism. They are repressive, but not so repressive that other nations will stop trading with them. The light touch of a social credit score that has the power to deprive people of basic service like transportation and phone usage.

On December 12 2018 13:24 xDaunt wrote:

You really have no idea what you're talking about. When I go to China and consume Chinese media, the narrative control that the government exercises upon everything over there is palpable. Imagine if Roger Ailes was given the reins to every media outlet in the US, and you would have some idea of what I'm describing. It gets even more interesting when you use the internet in China and start bumping up against the firewall. Toss in the new social credit system that they're developing, and what's going on in China is creepy as fuck. And that's before we get into the darker side of Chinese totalitarianism such as the abuse of human rights attorneys and the mass imprisonment of Uighurs (I saw a story within the past few weeks in which Western intelligence sources estimated that anywhere between 800,000 and 2 million Uighurs had been detained in the camps in Xinjiang). Chinese totalitarianism is a completely different animal than anything that has ever existed in the US.

On December 12 2018 13:28 Plansix wrote:
I agree with XDaunt for once, you have no idea what you are talking about. You continue to be aggressive ignorant when confront with anything that upsets what you believe.

On December 12 2018 13:49 xDaunt wrote:
So does anyone else think it odd that Trump had this impromptu televised meeting with Pelosi and Schumer today where he made a point of threatening to shut down the government over wall funding (something he has toyed with previously)? It was a notably aggressive move to make at this particular point in time.

On December 12 2018 13:49 xDaunt wrote:
So does anyone else think it odd that Trump had this impromptu televised meeting with Pelosi and Schumer today where he made a point of threatening to shut down the government over wall funding (something he has toyed with previously)? It was a notably aggressive move to make at this particular point in time.

On December 12 2018 13:00 xDaunt wrote:
This rather forced juxtaposition of GH's reminds me of a particularly inane English assignment I was given during my freshman year of high school. The teacher asked me to write a paper discussing and comparing the roles of women in Romeo and Juliet and Clan of the Cave Bear.

On December 12 2018 13:00 GreenHorizons wrote:


I certainly have issues with dystopian surveillance be it COINTELPRO, PRISM, or anything else. My issue was primarily with the rhetoric used sans any apparent reflection.

China didn't outlaw winnie the pooh, chinese citizens can and do criticize the government, and the Uyghur situation has been mischaracterized here as well.

China has plenty of problems but I'd suggest that the hyperbolic and inaccurate rhetoric that typically gets tossed around unchallenged by most westerners doesn't do those using it many favors.



Your refusal to engage with substance of the argument presented reminds me of most interactions with people that hold similar views as your own.

On December 12 2018 15:13 IgnE wrote:


they had you read clan of the cave bear as a freshman?

On December 12 2018 15:18 IgnE wrote:


Nazi Germany wasn’t very totalitarian then either I guess. That GDR though ...

On December 12 2018 13:49 xDaunt wrote:
So does anyone else think it odd that Trump had this impromptu televised meeting with Pelosi and Schumer today where he made a point of threatening to shut down the government over wall funding (something he has toyed with previously)? It was a notably aggressive move to make at this particular point in time.

On December 12 2018 13:34 GreenHorizons wrote:



I'll give you that China is a very different country with entirely different social pressures (though still plenty of overlap), the rest of all that I've already been through why I disagree.

Think about for a moment the restrictions on broadcast waves like radio and TV and you start to realize a lot of the repression you identify is remarkably similar to what you would characterize as "conservative values". This should be more apparent to you than most if you've been exposed extensively to Chinese culture.



I love how you both get caught pushing false propaganda and you still have the audacity to call me aggressively ignorant.

On December 12 2018 18:33 iamthedave wrote:


Seems to predispose the public to blame the GOP if it happens, too. Isn't the general history of government shutdowns that the public blames the party seen as causing it? I remember the Tea Party doing it over defunding Obamacare and even FOX News openly said they couldn't win.

Is the wall that popular an issue outside the base that the Dems will take the blame for refusing to put money up for it, especially given the Republicans didn't previously?



I think it might be prudent to ask two questions:

1) What propoganda is it you think they're pushing precisely?

2) Why do you think its false?

Seems the back and forth is very close to name-calling, so maybe this would add a bit of clarity to the proceedings. For my own bent penny, I think China's certainly quite close to going totalitarian again, or at least the machinery is in place to do it, but I don't think that's what Xi Jinping is angling for.

China didn't outlaw winnie the pooh, chinese citizens can and do criticize the government, and the Uyghur situation has been mischaracterized here as well.

On December 12 2018 13:49 xDaunt wrote:
So does anyone else think it odd that Trump had this impromptu televised meeting with Pelosi and Schumer today where he made a point of threatening to shut down the government over wall funding (something he has toyed with previously)? It was a notably aggressive move to make at this particular point in time.