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Considering how the last election went for the Republicans, I’m not really sure that assessment is correct. There is very strong polling that the public does not support a shut down and wants Trump to compromise. To the tune of 60%. The hyper focus on Trumps base has obscured the fact that the rest of the voting population is not happy with how government is being run. The stunt yesterday doesn’t do Republicans or Trump any favors with the people who decide elections.
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On December 13 2018 00:39 Plansix wrote:
Considering how the last election went for the Republicans, I’m not really sure that assessment is correct. There is very strong polling that the public does not support a shut down and wants Trump to compromise. To the tune of 60%. The hyper focus on Trumps base has obscured the fact that the rest of the voting population is not happy with how government is being run. The stunt yesterday doesn’t do Republicans or Trump any favors with the people who decide elections.
The idea that "swing voters" decide elections is pretty much bunk imo. Turnout is far more important. If we had 95% turnout already then swing voters might matter more, but what really matters is simply getting people that support you to vote for you.
Which is one reason why the last two years of trying to peel Republicans off of Trump has his support on par with where it was before he got elected. What matters in 2020 isn't convincing Republicans or swing voters to vote for Kamala the Cop or Master Beto , but getting people that are already to the left to vote.
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I wasn’t talking about swing voters. Though you are right they don’t really exist.
Unaffiliated voters, or the independent as polling refers to them as, make up 50% of the voting population. They are not “swing” voters, but people who sit out elections if they don’t like what the party they normally vote for is doing. The self identifying Republicans and Democrats represent the reliable base of the parties, but they rarely decide general elections in any contested race. And considering how last election went, doubling down on immigration is a losing plan for Trump.
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On December 13 2018 01:25 Plansix wrote:
I wasn’t talking about swing voters. Though you are right they don’t really exist.
Unaffiliated voters, or the independent as polling refers to them as, make up 50% of the voting population. They are not “swing” voters, but people who sit out elections if they don’t like what the party they normally vote for is doing. The self identifying Republicans and Democrats represent the reliable base of the parties, but they rarely decide general elections in any contested race. And considering how last election went, doubling down on immigration is a losing plan for Trump.
Immigration is one of very few issues he's got that appeals beyond his base. Hillary didn't want to teargas and cage (any more than Obama) the kids at the border but she certainly wanted to send them back to terrible conditions to send their parents a message. Even Bernie took a protectionist (regarding foreign labor) position in 2016 as well as skilled worker visas aren't very popular among tech bros.
Republicans lost about as big as they should have given the conditions on the ground but actually outperformed expectations in the Senate (which is one reason why Democrats don't really have a chance at it in 2020, despite so many seats being up).
Trump's also probably going to add federal decriminalization of cannabis to his platform which would throw a lot of things out of whack.
Outside of Bernie, Trump is in a pretty good position to win in 2020.
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Immigration is the issue on which Trump won the presidency. He knows it, and the Democrats know it. Why do you think that Trump was insisting that the talks about the wall and border security be public, whereas Pelosi wanted to bring it behind close doors?
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So Cohen got 3 years should be out in less than 2. lol @ our justice system's patheticness
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Did it? Did it win him the presidency? Or was it the Terrible candidate with the negative approval rating, unlimited baggage and an FBI investigation that was dropping bombs until the 11th hour?
Not for nothing, the Republicans lost seats in the house in 2016. They picked up one seat in the senate. In 2018 Republicans got dunked in the house. They barely picked seats in the senate With the most favorable map for any political party in a century. This narrative the immigration won Trump the general election doesn’t seem to hold water if we look at what it did for a lot of Republicans. Especially ones in competitive districts.
But it sure as hell got him the nomination. The base loves this immigration issue. The rest of America doesn’t seem to see it as a priority.
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On December 13 2018 02:11 Plansix wrote:
Did it? Did it win him the presidency? Or was it the Terrible candidate with the negative approval rating, unlimited baggage and an FBI investigation that was dropping bombs until the 11th hour?
Not for nothing, the Republicans lost seats in the house in 2016. They picked up one seat in the senate. In 2018 Republicans got dunked in the house. They barely picked seats in the senate With the most favorable map for any political party in a century. This narrative the immigration won Trump the general election doesn’t seem to hold water if we look at what it did for a lot of Republicans. Especially ones in competitive districts.
But it sure as hell got him the nomination. The base loves this immigration issue. The rest of America doesn’t seem to see it as a priority.
Not immigration itself but his animosity toward countries that through immigration or outsourcing supplement our labor force. Like I said that has appeal beyond his base, though it's fair to say it's not a priority for plenty of voters outside of his base.
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This is starting to get even more outrageous:
Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, who arranged the bureau's interview with then-national security adviser Michael Flynn at the White House on Jan. 24, 2017 — the interview that ultimately led to Flynn's guilty plea on one count of making false statements — suggested Flynn not have a lawyer present at the session, according to newly-filed court documents. In addition, FBI officials, along with the two agents who interviewed Flynn, decided specifically not to warn him that there would be penalties for making false statements because the agents wanted to ensure that Flynn was "relaxed" during the session.
The new information, drawn from McCabe's account of events plus the FBI agents' writeup of the interview — the so-called 302 report — is contained in a sentencing memo filed Tuesday by Flynn's defense team.
Citing McCabe's account, the sentencing memo says that shortly after noon on Jan. 24 — the fourth day of the new Trump administration — McCabe called Flynn on a secure phone in Flynn's West Wing office. The two men discussed business briefly and then McCabe said that he "felt that we needed to have two of our agents sit down" with Flynn to discuss Flynn's talks with Russian officials during the presidential transition.
McCabe, by his own account, urged Flynn to talk to the agents alone, without a lawyer present. "I explained that I thought the quickest way to get this done was to have a conversation between [Flynn] and the agents only," McCabe wrote. "I further stated that if LTG Flynn wished to include anyone else in the meeting, like the White House counsel for instance, that I would need to involve the Department of Justice. [Flynn] stated that this would not be necessary and agreed to meet with the agents without any additional participants."
Within two hours, the agents were in Flynn's office. According to the 302 report quoted in the Flynn sentencing document, the agents said Flynn was "relaxed and jocular" and offered the agents "a little tour" of his part of the White House.
"The agents did not provide Gen. Flynn with a warning of the penalties for making a false statement under 18 U.S.C. 1001 before, during, or after the interview," the Flynn memo says. According to the 302, before the interview, McCabe and other FBI officials "decided the agents would not warn Flynn that it was a crime to lie during an FBI interview because they wanted Flynn to be relaxed, and they were concerned that giving the warnings might adversely affect the rapport."
The agents had, of course, seen transcripts of Flynn's wiretapped conversations with Russian then-ambassador Sergey Kislyak. "Before the interview, FBI officials had also decided that if 'Flynn said he did not remember something they knew he said, they would use the exact words Flynn used ... to try to refresh his recollection. If Flynn still would not confirm what he said ... they would not confront him or talk him through it,'" the Flynn memo says, citing the FBI 302.
"One of the agents reported that Gen. Flynn was 'unguarded' during the interview and 'clearly saw the FBI agents as allies,'" the Flynn memo says, again citing the 302.
Later in the memo, Flynn's lawyers argue that the FBI treated Flynn differently from two other Trump-Russia figures who have pleaded guilty to and been sentenced for making false statements. One of them, Alexander Van der Zwaan, "was represented by counsel during the interview; he was interviewed at a time when there was a publicly disclosed, full-bore investigation regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election; and he was given a warning that it is a federal crime to lie during the interview," according to the memo. The other, George Papadopoulos, "was specifically notified of the seriousness of the investigation...was warned that lying to investigators was a 'federal offense'...had time to reflect on his answers...and met with the FBI the following month for a further set of interviews, accompanied by his counsel, and did not correct his false statements."
The message of the sentencing memo is clear: Flynn, his lawyers suggest, was surprised, rushed, not warned of the context or seriousness of the questioning, and discouraged from having a lawyer present.
Source.
So let's just summarize. McCabe had the transcript of the call between Flynn and Kislyak from the FISA surveillance. He set up an interview with Flynn, and discouraged Flynn from having a lawyer present. He further did not warn Flynn that he was being investigated and that his comments to the FBI agents could be used against him. The FBI agents then used the 302 memos to artificially construct a "lying to the feds" case against Flynn based upon Flynn's answer that he did not remember the call with Kislyak when the Feds never bothered to try to refresh his recollection (let's not forget that McCabe altered the 302 memos). And while all of this is going on, we have Strozk and Page exchanging the following text messages:
![[image loading]](https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/flynn-page-1.jpg)
These people all need to burn. And given the reporting by Sara Carter and John Solomon on Hannity last night about there being "lots of sealed indictments," it looks like their time is going to come sooner rather than later.
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On December 13 2018 02:15 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2018 02:11 Plansix wrote:
Did it? Did it win him the presidency? Or was it the Terrible candidate with the negative approval rating, unlimited baggage and an FBI investigation that was dropping bombs until the 11th hour?
Not for nothing, the Republicans lost seats in the house in 2016. They picked up one seat in the senate. In 2018 Republicans got dunked in the house. They barely picked seats in the senate With the most favorable map for any political party in a century. This narrative the immigration won Trump the general election doesn’t seem to hold water if we look at what it did for a lot of Republicans. Especially ones in competitive districts.
But it sure as hell got him the nomination. The base loves this immigration issue. The rest of America doesn’t seem to see it as a priority. Not immigration itself but his animosity toward countries that through immigration or outsourcing supplement our labor force. Like I said that has appeal beyond his base, though it's fair to say it's not a priority for plenty of voters outside of his base.
Yes. And he barely won and lost the popular vote. The whole narrative around immigration being this major issue for voters doesn’t seem to manifest votes. Like so much with Trump, it is all smoke and mirrors.
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On December 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2018 02:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 13 2018 02:11 Plansix wrote:
Did it? Did it win him the presidency? Or was it the Terrible candidate with the negative approval rating, unlimited baggage and an FBI investigation that was dropping bombs until the 11th hour?
Not for nothing, the Republicans lost seats in the house in 2016. They picked up one seat in the senate. In 2018 Republicans got dunked in the house. They barely picked seats in the senate With the most favorable map for any political party in a century. This narrative the immigration won Trump the general election doesn’t seem to hold water if we look at what it did for a lot of Republicans. Especially ones in competitive districts.
But it sure as hell got him the nomination. The base loves this immigration issue. The rest of America doesn’t seem to see it as a priority. Not immigration itself but his animosity toward countries that through immigration or outsourcing supplement our labor force. Like I said that has appeal beyond his base, though it's fair to say it's not a priority for plenty of voters outside of his base. Yes. And he barely won and lost the popular vote. The whole narrative around immigration being this major issue for voters doesn’t seem to manifest votes. Like so much with Trump, it is all smoke and mirrors.
Smoke and mirrors that's got him the presidency and a massive wealth redistribution to himself and his peers.
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On December 13 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:This is starting to get even more outrageous: Show nested quote +Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, who arranged the bureau's interview with then-national security adviser Michael Flynn at the White House on Jan. 24, 2017 — the interview that ultimately led to Flynn's guilty plea on one count of making false statements — suggested Flynn not have a lawyer present at the session, according to newly-filed court documents. In addition, FBI officials, along with the two agents who interviewed Flynn, decided specifically not to warn him that there would be penalties for making false statements because the agents wanted to ensure that Flynn was "relaxed" during the session.
The new information, drawn from McCabe's account of events plus the FBI agents' writeup of the interview — the so-called 302 report — is contained in a sentencing memo filed Tuesday by Flynn's defense team.
Citing McCabe's account, the sentencing memo says that shortly after noon on Jan. 24 — the fourth day of the new Trump administration — McCabe called Flynn on a secure phone in Flynn's West Wing office. The two men discussed business briefly and then McCabe said that he "felt that we needed to have two of our agents sit down" with Flynn to discuss Flynn's talks with Russian officials during the presidential transition.
McCabe, by his own account, urged Flynn to talk to the agents alone, without a lawyer present. "I explained that I thought the quickest way to get this done was to have a conversation between [Flynn] and the agents only," McCabe wrote. "I further stated that if LTG Flynn wished to include anyone else in the meeting, like the White House counsel for instance, that I would need to involve the Department of Justice. [Flynn] stated that this would not be necessary and agreed to meet with the agents without any additional participants."
Within two hours, the agents were in Flynn's office. According to the 302 report quoted in the Flynn sentencing document, the agents said Flynn was "relaxed and jocular" and offered the agents "a little tour" of his part of the White House.
"The agents did not provide Gen. Flynn with a warning of the penalties for making a false statement under 18 U.S.C. 1001 before, during, or after the interview," the Flynn memo says. According to the 302, before the interview, McCabe and other FBI officials "decided the agents would not warn Flynn that it was a crime to lie during an FBI interview because they wanted Flynn to be relaxed, and they were concerned that giving the warnings might adversely affect the rapport."
The agents had, of course, seen transcripts of Flynn's wiretapped conversations with Russian then-ambassador Sergey Kislyak. "Before the interview, FBI officials had also decided that if 'Flynn said he did not remember something they knew he said, they would use the exact words Flynn used ... to try to refresh his recollection. If Flynn still would not confirm what he said ... they would not confront him or talk him through it,'" the Flynn memo says, citing the FBI 302.
"One of the agents reported that Gen. Flynn was 'unguarded' during the interview and 'clearly saw the FBI agents as allies,'" the Flynn memo says, again citing the 302.
Later in the memo, Flynn's lawyers argue that the FBI treated Flynn differently from two other Trump-Russia figures who have pleaded guilty to and been sentenced for making false statements. One of them, Alexander Van der Zwaan, "was represented by counsel during the interview; he was interviewed at a time when there was a publicly disclosed, full-bore investigation regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election; and he was given a warning that it is a federal crime to lie during the interview," according to the memo. The other, George Papadopoulos, "was specifically notified of the seriousness of the investigation...was warned that lying to investigators was a 'federal offense'...had time to reflect on his answers...and met with the FBI the following month for a further set of interviews, accompanied by his counsel, and did not correct his false statements."
The message of the sentencing memo is clear: Flynn, his lawyers suggest, was surprised, rushed, not warned of the context or seriousness of the questioning, and discouraged from having a lawyer present. Source. So let's just summarize. McCabe had the transcript of the call between Flynn and Kislyak from the FISA surveillance. He set up an interview with Flynn, and discouraged Flynn from having a lawyer present. He further did not warn Flynn that he was being investigated and that his comments to the FBI agents could be used against him. The FBI agents then used the 302 memos to artificially construct a "lying to the feds" case against Flynn based upon Flynn's answer that he did not remember the call with Kislyak when the Feds never bothered to try to refresh his recollection (let's not forget that McCabe altered the 302 memos). And while all of this is going on, we have Strozk and Page exchanging the following text messages: These people all need to burn. And given the reporting by Sara Carter and John Solomon on Hannity last night about there being "lots of sealed indictments," it looks like their time is going to come sooner rather than later.
You are telling me a 3 star general and national security adviser didn’t know the FBI doesn’t show up for friendly visits at random? Or that lying to them might be a criminal offense when they show up asking questions? Or that the widely reported active investigation into the Trump campaign would include him, a memeber of the Trump campaign?
Are you saying Mike Flynn is a fucking moron and got caught because he is a fucking moron? And everyone from Obama to Sallie Yates told Trump that Flynn was bad news and a fucking moron?
Flynn is a bad criminal and got busted because he is a bad criminal.
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On December 13 2018 02:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:This is starting to get even more outrageous: Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, who arranged the bureau's interview with then-national security adviser Michael Flynn at the White House on Jan. 24, 2017 — the interview that ultimately led to Flynn's guilty plea on one count of making false statements — suggested Flynn not have a lawyer present at the session, according to newly-filed court documents. In addition, FBI officials, along with the two agents who interviewed Flynn, decided specifically not to warn him that there would be penalties for making false statements because the agents wanted to ensure that Flynn was "relaxed" during the session.
The new information, drawn from McCabe's account of events plus the FBI agents' writeup of the interview — the so-called 302 report — is contained in a sentencing memo filed Tuesday by Flynn's defense team.
Citing McCabe's account, the sentencing memo says that shortly after noon on Jan. 24 — the fourth day of the new Trump administration — McCabe called Flynn on a secure phone in Flynn's West Wing office. The two men discussed business briefly and then McCabe said that he "felt that we needed to have two of our agents sit down" with Flynn to discuss Flynn's talks with Russian officials during the presidential transition.
McCabe, by his own account, urged Flynn to talk to the agents alone, without a lawyer present. "I explained that I thought the quickest way to get this done was to have a conversation between [Flynn] and the agents only," McCabe wrote. "I further stated that if LTG Flynn wished to include anyone else in the meeting, like the White House counsel for instance, that I would need to involve the Department of Justice. [Flynn] stated that this would not be necessary and agreed to meet with the agents without any additional participants."
Within two hours, the agents were in Flynn's office. According to the 302 report quoted in the Flynn sentencing document, the agents said Flynn was "relaxed and jocular" and offered the agents "a little tour" of his part of the White House.
"The agents did not provide Gen. Flynn with a warning of the penalties for making a false statement under 18 U.S.C. 1001 before, during, or after the interview," the Flynn memo says. According to the 302, before the interview, McCabe and other FBI officials "decided the agents would not warn Flynn that it was a crime to lie during an FBI interview because they wanted Flynn to be relaxed, and they were concerned that giving the warnings might adversely affect the rapport."
The agents had, of course, seen transcripts of Flynn's wiretapped conversations with Russian then-ambassador Sergey Kislyak. "Before the interview, FBI officials had also decided that if 'Flynn said he did not remember something they knew he said, they would use the exact words Flynn used ... to try to refresh his recollection. If Flynn still would not confirm what he said ... they would not confront him or talk him through it,'" the Flynn memo says, citing the FBI 302.
"One of the agents reported that Gen. Flynn was 'unguarded' during the interview and 'clearly saw the FBI agents as allies,'" the Flynn memo says, again citing the 302.
Later in the memo, Flynn's lawyers argue that the FBI treated Flynn differently from two other Trump-Russia figures who have pleaded guilty to and been sentenced for making false statements. One of them, Alexander Van der Zwaan, "was represented by counsel during the interview; he was interviewed at a time when there was a publicly disclosed, full-bore investigation regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election; and he was given a warning that it is a federal crime to lie during the interview," according to the memo. The other, George Papadopoulos, "was specifically notified of the seriousness of the investigation...was warned that lying to investigators was a 'federal offense'...had time to reflect on his answers...and met with the FBI the following month for a further set of interviews, accompanied by his counsel, and did not correct his false statements."
The message of the sentencing memo is clear: Flynn, his lawyers suggest, was surprised, rushed, not warned of the context or seriousness of the questioning, and discouraged from having a lawyer present. Source. So let's just summarize. McCabe had the transcript of the call between Flynn and Kislyak from the FISA surveillance. He set up an interview with Flynn, and discouraged Flynn from having a lawyer present. He further did not warn Flynn that he was being investigated and that his comments to the FBI agents could be used against him. The FBI agents then used the 302 memos to artificially construct a "lying to the feds" case against Flynn based upon Flynn's answer that he did not remember the call with Kislyak when the Feds never bothered to try to refresh his recollection (let's not forget that McCabe altered the 302 memos). And while all of this is going on, we have Strozk and Page exchanging the following text messages: These people all need to burn. And given the reporting by Sara Carter and John Solomon on Hannity last night about there being "lots of sealed indictments," it looks like their time is going to come sooner rather than later. You are telling me a 3 star general and national security adviser didn’t know the FBI doesn’t show up for friendly visits at random? Or that lying to them might be a criminal offense when they show up asking questions? Or that the widely reported active investigation into the Trump campaign would include him, a memeber of the Trump campaign? Are you saying Mike Flynn is a fucking moron and got caught because he is a fucking moron? And everyone from Obama to Sallie Yates told Trump that Flynn was bad news and a fucking moron? Flynn is a bad criminal and got busted because he is a bad criminal.
Is Flynn a "bad criminal" if he doesn't even go to prison?
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I suspect that there's a whole lot about what happened to Flynn that we don't know about yet. And I suspect that it is all going to come out after his sentencing hearing. I further suspect that there is a lot about Flynn's prior relationship with the Obama administration that we don't know about yet. All we know is that a lot of Obama people had an ax to grind with Flynn.
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On December 13 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2018 02:34 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:This is starting to get even more outrageous: Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, who arranged the bureau's interview with then-national security adviser Michael Flynn at the White House on Jan. 24, 2017 — the interview that ultimately led to Flynn's guilty plea on one count of making false statements — suggested Flynn not have a lawyer present at the session, according to newly-filed court documents. In addition, FBI officials, along with the two agents who interviewed Flynn, decided specifically not to warn him that there would be penalties for making false statements because the agents wanted to ensure that Flynn was "relaxed" during the session.
The new information, drawn from McCabe's account of events plus the FBI agents' writeup of the interview — the so-called 302 report — is contained in a sentencing memo filed Tuesday by Flynn's defense team.
Citing McCabe's account, the sentencing memo says that shortly after noon on Jan. 24 — the fourth day of the new Trump administration — McCabe called Flynn on a secure phone in Flynn's West Wing office. The two men discussed business briefly and then McCabe said that he "felt that we needed to have two of our agents sit down" with Flynn to discuss Flynn's talks with Russian officials during the presidential transition.
McCabe, by his own account, urged Flynn to talk to the agents alone, without a lawyer present. "I explained that I thought the quickest way to get this done was to have a conversation between [Flynn] and the agents only," McCabe wrote. "I further stated that if LTG Flynn wished to include anyone else in the meeting, like the White House counsel for instance, that I would need to involve the Department of Justice. [Flynn] stated that this would not be necessary and agreed to meet with the agents without any additional participants."
Within two hours, the agents were in Flynn's office. According to the 302 report quoted in the Flynn sentencing document, the agents said Flynn was "relaxed and jocular" and offered the agents "a little tour" of his part of the White House.
"The agents did not provide Gen. Flynn with a warning of the penalties for making a false statement under 18 U.S.C. 1001 before, during, or after the interview," the Flynn memo says. According to the 302, before the interview, McCabe and other FBI officials "decided the agents would not warn Flynn that it was a crime to lie during an FBI interview because they wanted Flynn to be relaxed, and they were concerned that giving the warnings might adversely affect the rapport."
The agents had, of course, seen transcripts of Flynn's wiretapped conversations with Russian then-ambassador Sergey Kislyak. "Before the interview, FBI officials had also decided that if 'Flynn said he did not remember something they knew he said, they would use the exact words Flynn used ... to try to refresh his recollection. If Flynn still would not confirm what he said ... they would not confront him or talk him through it,'" the Flynn memo says, citing the FBI 302.
"One of the agents reported that Gen. Flynn was 'unguarded' during the interview and 'clearly saw the FBI agents as allies,'" the Flynn memo says, again citing the 302.
Later in the memo, Flynn's lawyers argue that the FBI treated Flynn differently from two other Trump-Russia figures who have pleaded guilty to and been sentenced for making false statements. One of them, Alexander Van der Zwaan, "was represented by counsel during the interview; he was interviewed at a time when there was a publicly disclosed, full-bore investigation regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election; and he was given a warning that it is a federal crime to lie during the interview," according to the memo. The other, George Papadopoulos, "was specifically notified of the seriousness of the investigation...was warned that lying to investigators was a 'federal offense'...had time to reflect on his answers...and met with the FBI the following month for a further set of interviews, accompanied by his counsel, and did not correct his false statements."
The message of the sentencing memo is clear: Flynn, his lawyers suggest, was surprised, rushed, not warned of the context or seriousness of the questioning, and discouraged from having a lawyer present. Source. So let's just summarize. McCabe had the transcript of the call between Flynn and Kislyak from the FISA surveillance. He set up an interview with Flynn, and discouraged Flynn from having a lawyer present. He further did not warn Flynn that he was being investigated and that his comments to the FBI agents could be used against him. The FBI agents then used the 302 memos to artificially construct a "lying to the feds" case against Flynn based upon Flynn's answer that he did not remember the call with Kislyak when the Feds never bothered to try to refresh his recollection (let's not forget that McCabe altered the 302 memos). And while all of this is going on, we have Strozk and Page exchanging the following text messages: These people all need to burn. And given the reporting by Sara Carter and John Solomon on Hannity last night about there being "lots of sealed indictments," it looks like their time is going to come sooner rather than later. You are telling me a 3 star general and national security adviser didn’t know the FBI doesn’t show up for friendly visits at random? Or that lying to them might be a criminal offense when they show up asking questions? Or that the widely reported active investigation into the Trump campaign would include him, a memeber of the Trump campaign? Are you saying Mike Flynn is a fucking moron and got caught because he is a fucking moron? And everyone from Obama to Sallie Yates told Trump that Flynn was bad news and a fucking moron? Flynn is a bad criminal and got busted because he is a bad criminal. Is Flynn a "bad criminal" if he doesn't even go to prison?
He has a good lawyer and cut a plea deal, which is a good way to avoid prison. So he was smart enough to realize he was a bad criminal.
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On December 13 2018 02:47 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 13 2018 02:34 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:This is starting to get even more outrageous: Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, who arranged the bureau's interview with then-national security adviser Michael Flynn at the White House on Jan. 24, 2017 — the interview that ultimately led to Flynn's guilty plea on one count of making false statements — suggested Flynn not have a lawyer present at the session, according to newly-filed court documents. In addition, FBI officials, along with the two agents who interviewed Flynn, decided specifically not to warn him that there would be penalties for making false statements because the agents wanted to ensure that Flynn was "relaxed" during the session.
The new information, drawn from McCabe's account of events plus the FBI agents' writeup of the interview — the so-called 302 report — is contained in a sentencing memo filed Tuesday by Flynn's defense team.
Citing McCabe's account, the sentencing memo says that shortly after noon on Jan. 24 — the fourth day of the new Trump administration — McCabe called Flynn on a secure phone in Flynn's West Wing office. The two men discussed business briefly and then McCabe said that he "felt that we needed to have two of our agents sit down" with Flynn to discuss Flynn's talks with Russian officials during the presidential transition.
McCabe, by his own account, urged Flynn to talk to the agents alone, without a lawyer present. "I explained that I thought the quickest way to get this done was to have a conversation between [Flynn] and the agents only," McCabe wrote. "I further stated that if LTG Flynn wished to include anyone else in the meeting, like the White House counsel for instance, that I would need to involve the Department of Justice. [Flynn] stated that this would not be necessary and agreed to meet with the agents without any additional participants."
Within two hours, the agents were in Flynn's office. According to the 302 report quoted in the Flynn sentencing document, the agents said Flynn was "relaxed and jocular" and offered the agents "a little tour" of his part of the White House.
"The agents did not provide Gen. Flynn with a warning of the penalties for making a false statement under 18 U.S.C. 1001 before, during, or after the interview," the Flynn memo says. According to the 302, before the interview, McCabe and other FBI officials "decided the agents would not warn Flynn that it was a crime to lie during an FBI interview because they wanted Flynn to be relaxed, and they were concerned that giving the warnings might adversely affect the rapport."
The agents had, of course, seen transcripts of Flynn's wiretapped conversations with Russian then-ambassador Sergey Kislyak. "Before the interview, FBI officials had also decided that if 'Flynn said he did not remember something they knew he said, they would use the exact words Flynn used ... to try to refresh his recollection. If Flynn still would not confirm what he said ... they would not confront him or talk him through it,'" the Flynn memo says, citing the FBI 302.
"One of the agents reported that Gen. Flynn was 'unguarded' during the interview and 'clearly saw the FBI agents as allies,'" the Flynn memo says, again citing the 302.
Later in the memo, Flynn's lawyers argue that the FBI treated Flynn differently from two other Trump-Russia figures who have pleaded guilty to and been sentenced for making false statements. One of them, Alexander Van der Zwaan, "was represented by counsel during the interview; he was interviewed at a time when there was a publicly disclosed, full-bore investigation regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election; and he was given a warning that it is a federal crime to lie during the interview," according to the memo. The other, George Papadopoulos, "was specifically notified of the seriousness of the investigation...was warned that lying to investigators was a 'federal offense'...had time to reflect on his answers...and met with the FBI the following month for a further set of interviews, accompanied by his counsel, and did not correct his false statements."
The message of the sentencing memo is clear: Flynn, his lawyers suggest, was surprised, rushed, not warned of the context or seriousness of the questioning, and discouraged from having a lawyer present. Source. So let's just summarize. McCabe had the transcript of the call between Flynn and Kislyak from the FISA surveillance. He set up an interview with Flynn, and discouraged Flynn from having a lawyer present. He further did not warn Flynn that he was being investigated and that his comments to the FBI agents could be used against him. The FBI agents then used the 302 memos to artificially construct a "lying to the feds" case against Flynn based upon Flynn's answer that he did not remember the call with Kislyak when the Feds never bothered to try to refresh his recollection (let's not forget that McCabe altered the 302 memos). And while all of this is going on, we have Strozk and Page exchanging the following text messages: These people all need to burn. And given the reporting by Sara Carter and John Solomon on Hannity last night about there being "lots of sealed indictments," it looks like their time is going to come sooner rather than later. You are telling me a 3 star general and national security adviser didn’t know the FBI doesn’t show up for friendly visits at random? Or that lying to them might be a criminal offense when they show up asking questions? Or that the widely reported active investigation into the Trump campaign would include him, a memeber of the Trump campaign? Are you saying Mike Flynn is a fucking moron and got caught because he is a fucking moron? And everyone from Obama to Sallie Yates told Trump that Flynn was bad news and a fucking moron? Flynn is a bad criminal and got busted because he is a bad criminal. Is Flynn a "bad criminal" if he doesn't even go to prison? He has a good lawyer and cut a plea deal, which is a good way to avoid prison. So he was smart enough to realize he was a bad criminal.
I suppose he could be a bad criminal and just that his crimes were insignificant.
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On December 13 2018 02:41 xDaunt wrote:
I suspect that there's a whole lot about what happened to Flynn that we don't know about yet. And I suspect that it is all going to come out after his sentencing hearing. I further suspect that there is a lot about Flynn's prior relationship with the Obama administration that we don't know about yet. All we know is that a lot of Obama people had an ax to grind with Flynn.
From all reports, the officers in the military, other generals and folks at the NSA all disliked Flynn and felt he was a liability. He was bad a national security and prone to conspiracy theories. Few of the people Flynn worked with were Obama’s people.
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On December 13 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:This is starting to get even more outrageous: Show nested quote +Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, who arranged the bureau's interview with then-national security adviser Michael Flynn at the White House on Jan. 24, 2017 — the interview that ultimately led to Flynn's guilty plea on one count of making false statements — suggested Flynn not have a lawyer present at the session, according to newly-filed court documents. In addition, FBI officials, along with the two agents who interviewed Flynn, decided specifically not to warn him that there would be penalties for making false statements because the agents wanted to ensure that Flynn was "relaxed" during the session.
The new information, drawn from McCabe's account of events plus the FBI agents' writeup of the interview — the so-called 302 report — is contained in a sentencing memo filed Tuesday by Flynn's defense team.
Citing McCabe's account, the sentencing memo says that shortly after noon on Jan. 24 — the fourth day of the new Trump administration — McCabe called Flynn on a secure phone in Flynn's West Wing office. The two men discussed business briefly and then McCabe said that he "felt that we needed to have two of our agents sit down" with Flynn to discuss Flynn's talks with Russian officials during the presidential transition.
McCabe, by his own account, urged Flynn to talk to the agents alone, without a lawyer present. "I explained that I thought the quickest way to get this done was to have a conversation between [Flynn] and the agents only," McCabe wrote. "I further stated that if LTG Flynn wished to include anyone else in the meeting, like the White House counsel for instance, that I would need to involve the Department of Justice. [Flynn] stated that this would not be necessary and agreed to meet with the agents without any additional participants."
Within two hours, the agents were in Flynn's office. According to the 302 report quoted in the Flynn sentencing document, the agents said Flynn was "relaxed and jocular" and offered the agents "a little tour" of his part of the White House.
"The agents did not provide Gen. Flynn with a warning of the penalties for making a false statement under 18 U.S.C. 1001 before, during, or after the interview," the Flynn memo says. According to the 302, before the interview, McCabe and other FBI officials "decided the agents would not warn Flynn that it was a crime to lie during an FBI interview because they wanted Flynn to be relaxed, and they were concerned that giving the warnings might adversely affect the rapport."
The agents had, of course, seen transcripts of Flynn's wiretapped conversations with Russian then-ambassador Sergey Kislyak. "Before the interview, FBI officials had also decided that if 'Flynn said he did not remember something they knew he said, they would use the exact words Flynn used ... to try to refresh his recollection. If Flynn still would not confirm what he said ... they would not confront him or talk him through it,'" the Flynn memo says, citing the FBI 302.
"One of the agents reported that Gen. Flynn was 'unguarded' during the interview and 'clearly saw the FBI agents as allies,'" the Flynn memo says, again citing the 302.
Later in the memo, Flynn's lawyers argue that the FBI treated Flynn differently from two other Trump-Russia figures who have pleaded guilty to and been sentenced for making false statements. One of them, Alexander Van der Zwaan, "was represented by counsel during the interview; he was interviewed at a time when there was a publicly disclosed, full-bore investigation regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election; and he was given a warning that it is a federal crime to lie during the interview," according to the memo. The other, George Papadopoulos, "was specifically notified of the seriousness of the investigation...was warned that lying to investigators was a 'federal offense'...had time to reflect on his answers...and met with the FBI the following month for a further set of interviews, accompanied by his counsel, and did not correct his false statements."
The message of the sentencing memo is clear: Flynn, his lawyers suggest, was surprised, rushed, not warned of the context or seriousness of the questioning, and discouraged from having a lawyer present. Source. So let's just summarize. McCabe had the transcript of the call between Flynn and Kislyak from the FISA surveillance. He set up an interview with Flynn, and discouraged Flynn from having a lawyer present. He further did not warn Flynn that he was being investigated and that his comments to the FBI agents could be used against him. The FBI agents then used the 302 memos to artificially construct a "lying to the feds" case against Flynn based upon Flynn's answer that he did not remember the call with Kislyak when the Feds never bothered to try to refresh his recollection (let's not forget that McCabe altered the 302 memos). And while all of this is going on, we have Strozk and Page exchanging the following text messages: These people all need to burn. And given the reporting by Sara Carter and John Solomon on Hannity last night about there being "lots of sealed indictments," it looks like their time is going to come sooner rather than later.
The papadopolis/zwann warning that it’s a serious investigation, and Flynn encouraged to see them all on the same team getting to the bottom of foreign conspiracies is so fraudulent. Watch out, get your lawyers, this interview could end badly for you ... vs no need for lawyers, just tell us everything so we can do Russian counterintelligence. For Flynn himself, he’s a dummie for not insisting on a lawyer anyways. He should have been wiser, and it’s a pretty low bar of intelligence for someone of his position.
I’m happy for the excellent reporting coming out of these cases. I hope the American people end up with the knowledge of how this thing was run by disgraced FBI officials after the Mueller report and (hopefully) further investigations and trials of former officials.
I don’t know if you saw Victor David Hanson’s article wrapping up the difference in treatment of individuals by the FBI in 2016-17, but it’s another gem. Trump better act with his coming AG to bring justice to people who had no business wielding the power of the FBI/divisions of the FBI, and work to restore some institutional trust between the American people and the FBI.
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On December 13 2018 02:49 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2018 02:47 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 13 2018 02:34 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:This is starting to get even more outrageous: Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, who arranged the bureau's interview with then-national security adviser Michael Flynn at the White House on Jan. 24, 2017 — the interview that ultimately led to Flynn's guilty plea on one count of making false statements — suggested Flynn not have a lawyer present at the session, according to newly-filed court documents. In addition, FBI officials, along with the two agents who interviewed Flynn, decided specifically not to warn him that there would be penalties for making false statements because the agents wanted to ensure that Flynn was "relaxed" during the session.
The new information, drawn from McCabe's account of events plus the FBI agents' writeup of the interview — the so-called 302 report — is contained in a sentencing memo filed Tuesday by Flynn's defense team.
Citing McCabe's account, the sentencing memo says that shortly after noon on Jan. 24 — the fourth day of the new Trump administration — McCabe called Flynn on a secure phone in Flynn's West Wing office. The two men discussed business briefly and then McCabe said that he "felt that we needed to have two of our agents sit down" with Flynn to discuss Flynn's talks with Russian officials during the presidential transition.
McCabe, by his own account, urged Flynn to talk to the agents alone, without a lawyer present. "I explained that I thought the quickest way to get this done was to have a conversation between [Flynn] and the agents only," McCabe wrote. "I further stated that if LTG Flynn wished to include anyone else in the meeting, like the White House counsel for instance, that I would need to involve the Department of Justice. [Flynn] stated that this would not be necessary and agreed to meet with the agents without any additional participants."
Within two hours, the agents were in Flynn's office. According to the 302 report quoted in the Flynn sentencing document, the agents said Flynn was "relaxed and jocular" and offered the agents "a little tour" of his part of the White House.
"The agents did not provide Gen. Flynn with a warning of the penalties for making a false statement under 18 U.S.C. 1001 before, during, or after the interview," the Flynn memo says. According to the 302, before the interview, McCabe and other FBI officials "decided the agents would not warn Flynn that it was a crime to lie during an FBI interview because they wanted Flynn to be relaxed, and they were concerned that giving the warnings might adversely affect the rapport."
The agents had, of course, seen transcripts of Flynn's wiretapped conversations with Russian then-ambassador Sergey Kislyak. "Before the interview, FBI officials had also decided that if 'Flynn said he did not remember something they knew he said, they would use the exact words Flynn used ... to try to refresh his recollection. If Flynn still would not confirm what he said ... they would not confront him or talk him through it,'" the Flynn memo says, citing the FBI 302.
"One of the agents reported that Gen. Flynn was 'unguarded' during the interview and 'clearly saw the FBI agents as allies,'" the Flynn memo says, again citing the 302.
Later in the memo, Flynn's lawyers argue that the FBI treated Flynn differently from two other Trump-Russia figures who have pleaded guilty to and been sentenced for making false statements. One of them, Alexander Van der Zwaan, "was represented by counsel during the interview; he was interviewed at a time when there was a publicly disclosed, full-bore investigation regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election; and he was given a warning that it is a federal crime to lie during the interview," according to the memo. The other, George Papadopoulos, "was specifically notified of the seriousness of the investigation...was warned that lying to investigators was a 'federal offense'...had time to reflect on his answers...and met with the FBI the following month for a further set of interviews, accompanied by his counsel, and did not correct his false statements."
The message of the sentencing memo is clear: Flynn, his lawyers suggest, was surprised, rushed, not warned of the context or seriousness of the questioning, and discouraged from having a lawyer present. Source. So let's just summarize. McCabe had the transcript of the call between Flynn and Kislyak from the FISA surveillance. He set up an interview with Flynn, and discouraged Flynn from having a lawyer present. He further did not warn Flynn that he was being investigated and that his comments to the FBI agents could be used against him. The FBI agents then used the 302 memos to artificially construct a "lying to the feds" case against Flynn based upon Flynn's answer that he did not remember the call with Kislyak when the Feds never bothered to try to refresh his recollection (let's not forget that McCabe altered the 302 memos). And while all of this is going on, we have Strozk and Page exchanging the following text messages: These people all need to burn. And given the reporting by Sara Carter and John Solomon on Hannity last night about there being "lots of sealed indictments," it looks like their time is going to come sooner rather than later. You are telling me a 3 star general and national security adviser didn’t know the FBI doesn’t show up for friendly visits at random? Or that lying to them might be a criminal offense when they show up asking questions? Or that the widely reported active investigation into the Trump campaign would include him, a memeber of the Trump campaign? Are you saying Mike Flynn is a fucking moron and got caught because he is a fucking moron? And everyone from Obama to Sallie Yates told Trump that Flynn was bad news and a fucking moron? Flynn is a bad criminal and got busted because he is a bad criminal. Is Flynn a "bad criminal" if he doesn't even go to prison? He has a good lawyer and cut a plea deal, which is a good way to avoid prison. So he was smart enough to realize he was a bad criminal. I suppose he could be a bad criminal and just that his crimes were insignificant.
Or he is more valuable as a witness to get far more impressive criminal actors.
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On December 13 2018 03:04 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2018 02:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 13 2018 02:47 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 13 2018 02:34 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2018 02:20 xDaunt wrote:This is starting to get even more outrageous: Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, who arranged the bureau's interview with then-national security adviser Michael Flynn at the White House on Jan. 24, 2017 — the interview that ultimately led to Flynn's guilty plea on one count of making false statements — suggested Flynn not have a lawyer present at the session, according to newly-filed court documents. In addition, FBI officials, along with the two agents who interviewed Flynn, decided specifically not to warn him that there would be penalties for making false statements because the agents wanted to ensure that Flynn was "relaxed" during the session.
The new information, drawn from McCabe's account of events plus the FBI agents' writeup of the interview — the so-called 302 report — is contained in a sentencing memo filed Tuesday by Flynn's defense team.
Citing McCabe's account, the sentencing memo says that shortly after noon on Jan. 24 — the fourth day of the new Trump administration — McCabe called Flynn on a secure phone in Flynn's West Wing office. The two men discussed business briefly and then McCabe said that he "felt that we needed to have two of our agents sit down" with Flynn to discuss Flynn's talks with Russian officials during the presidential transition.
McCabe, by his own account, urged Flynn to talk to the agents alone, without a lawyer present. "I explained that I thought the quickest way to get this done was to have a conversation between [Flynn] and the agents only," McCabe wrote. "I further stated that if LTG Flynn wished to include anyone else in the meeting, like the White House counsel for instance, that I would need to involve the Department of Justice. [Flynn] stated that this would not be necessary and agreed to meet with the agents without any additional participants."
Within two hours, the agents were in Flynn's office. According to the 302 report quoted in the Flynn sentencing document, the agents said Flynn was "relaxed and jocular" and offered the agents "a little tour" of his part of the White House.
"The agents did not provide Gen. Flynn with a warning of the penalties for making a false statement under 18 U.S.C. 1001 before, during, or after the interview," the Flynn memo says. According to the 302, before the interview, McCabe and other FBI officials "decided the agents would not warn Flynn that it was a crime to lie during an FBI interview because they wanted Flynn to be relaxed, and they were concerned that giving the warnings might adversely affect the rapport."
The agents had, of course, seen transcripts of Flynn's wiretapped conversations with Russian then-ambassador Sergey Kislyak. "Before the interview, FBI officials had also decided that if 'Flynn said he did not remember something they knew he said, they would use the exact words Flynn used ... to try to refresh his recollection. If Flynn still would not confirm what he said ... they would not confront him or talk him through it,'" the Flynn memo says, citing the FBI 302.
"One of the agents reported that Gen. Flynn was 'unguarded' during the interview and 'clearly saw the FBI agents as allies,'" the Flynn memo says, again citing the 302.
Later in the memo, Flynn's lawyers argue that the FBI treated Flynn differently from two other Trump-Russia figures who have pleaded guilty to and been sentenced for making false statements. One of them, Alexander Van der Zwaan, "was represented by counsel during the interview; he was interviewed at a time when there was a publicly disclosed, full-bore investigation regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election; and he was given a warning that it is a federal crime to lie during the interview," according to the memo. The other, George Papadopoulos, "was specifically notified of the seriousness of the investigation...was warned that lying to investigators was a 'federal offense'...had time to reflect on his answers...and met with the FBI the following month for a further set of interviews, accompanied by his counsel, and did not correct his false statements."
The message of the sentencing memo is clear: Flynn, his lawyers suggest, was surprised, rushed, not warned of the context or seriousness of the questioning, and discouraged from having a lawyer present. Source. So let's just summarize. McCabe had the transcript of the call between Flynn and Kislyak from the FISA surveillance. He set up an interview with Flynn, and discouraged Flynn from having a lawyer present. He further did not warn Flynn that he was being investigated and that his comments to the FBI agents could be used against him. The FBI agents then used the 302 memos to artificially construct a "lying to the feds" case against Flynn based upon Flynn's answer that he did not remember the call with Kislyak when the Feds never bothered to try to refresh his recollection (let's not forget that McCabe altered the 302 memos). And while all of this is going on, we have Strozk and Page exchanging the following text messages: These people all need to burn. And given the reporting by Sara Carter and John Solomon on Hannity last night about there being "lots of sealed indictments," it looks like their time is going to come sooner rather than later. You are telling me a 3 star general and national security adviser didn’t know the FBI doesn’t show up for friendly visits at random? Or that lying to them might be a criminal offense when they show up asking questions? Or that the widely reported active investigation into the Trump campaign would include him, a memeber of the Trump campaign? Are you saying Mike Flynn is a fucking moron and got caught because he is a fucking moron? And everyone from Obama to Sallie Yates told Trump that Flynn was bad news and a fucking moron? Flynn is a bad criminal and got busted because he is a bad criminal. Is Flynn a "bad criminal" if he doesn't even go to prison? He has a good lawyer and cut a plea deal, which is a good way to avoid prison. So he was smart enough to realize he was a bad criminal. I suppose he could be a bad criminal and just that his crimes were insignificant. Or he is more valuable as a witness to get far more impressive criminal actors.
We're pretty much down to Manafort as the only person really on the hook and granted I don't follow the nuance of this stuff very closely I don't think the two are really related?
Is there speculation as to what he would be saying about whom to the effect of what you're suggesting?
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EPT
