On March 22 2007 01:23 Kwark wrote: It would seem if anything, my problem here is expecting too much of Mods. I think ideally they shouldn't flame and when they feel they have to flame, they should flame as an individual, not a mod. Mod powers were given to improve the forum, not to win personal arguments and as much as I'm sure Mani felt it was improving the forum, given he was in the middle of an argument with Baal he was hardly impartial. Which is why I said I'd have no problem if another had banned Baal.
If a judge was getting a divorce, they wouldn't ask him to sort out his own wifes settlement.
I really Loled when I read this. That is such a stupid comparison.
The judge has a duty to act impartially. A divorce is a situation where he is unlikely to be impartial. A mod also has that duty. A flame war is a situation in which anger is likely to cloud his judgement.
Explain your criticism.
A divorce is a life-changing thing. A flame war isn't (shouldn't be).
On March 22 2007 01:23 Kwark wrote: It would seem if anything, my problem here is expecting too much of Mods. I think ideally they shouldn't flame and when they feel they have to flame, they should flame as an individual, not a mod. Mod powers were given to improve the forum, not to win personal arguments and as much as I'm sure Mani felt it was improving the forum, given he was in the middle of an argument with Baal he was hardly impartial. Which is why I said I'd have no problem if another had banned Baal.
If a judge was getting a divorce, they wouldn't ask him to sort out his own wifes settlement.
I really Loled when I read this. That is such a stupid comparison.
The judge has a duty to act impartially. A divorce is a situation where he is unlikely to be impartial. A mod also has that duty. A flame war is a situation in which anger is likely to cloud his judgement.
Explain your criticism.
A divorce is a life-changing thing. A flame war isn't (shouldn't be).
EDIT: For quote.
Tell that to the violent counter strike players who stab eachother after a match. ;D
On March 22 2007 01:23 Kwark wrote: It would seem if anything, my problem here is expecting too much of Mods. I think ideally they shouldn't flame and when they feel they have to flame, they should flame as an individual, not a mod. Mod powers were given to improve the forum, not to win personal arguments and as much as I'm sure Mani felt it was improving the forum, given he was in the middle of an argument with Baal he was hardly impartial. Which is why I said I'd have no problem if another had banned Baal.
If a judge was getting a divorce, they wouldn't ask him to sort out his own wifes settlement.
I really Loled when I read this. That is such a stupid comparison.
The judge has a duty to act impartially. A divorce is a situation where he is unlikely to be impartial. A mod also has that duty. A flame war is a situation in which anger is likely to cloud his judgement.
Explain your criticism.
Let me put in your frame of logic. Since you want to use a faulty comparison, let me give you one too.
A police's job is also to stop crime, kind of like it's a moderator's job to stop stupid crap from being posted on a forum. If a policeman is being assaulted, should he not do anything back?
I don't know about where your from, but where I'm from... to assault a policeman is worse than assaulting a regular person. Of course, that comparison is faulty... but I'm not going to write an essay to prove a simple point.
i've always liked Mani's banning style because most of the time he gives a reason for it; Kwark why do you demand perfection from mods?their are not gods; they are humans and this is life; they can never please everyone; i know you have a opinion but don't start judging people based on that; my opinion is that Mani replyed him only because he is an old quality poster; he bothered replying to him because of some form of 'respect' to him; the fact that the reply turned out to be a flame is of no relevance (and if it is it's only in Mani's eyes, he will live with it)
On March 22 2007 01:11 Kwark wrote: Mani had two choices, he could either remain aloof and ban Baal for disrespect. Or he could join the rest of us and engage in flame wars. I don't know about the rest of you but when told "Fuck you. You are worth nothing at all." I respond, and I respond angrily. When Mani said it to Baal he knew exactly what would happen. He was inciting it.
Mani did not engage in a flame war, he just flamed Baal before banning him. He wasn't inciting anything because he was already going to ban him anyway. The fact that Baal managed to get a response in before the ban occurred doesn't change anything.
If Baal had been banned immediately then fair enough. If they'd done some flaming and counter flaming and then someone else had banned Baal fair enough. But when Mani flames, Baal counter flames and then Mani bans him for flaming a mod something is seriously not right.
Again you're too caught up in the timing. Mani did not ban Baal "for flaming a mod", he banned him for all the crap he's said in this thread. Just because the last thing you saw before the ban was Baal replying to Mani's flame doesn't mean it was the reason for the ban.
Student: Mani you don't look good Mani: SHUT UP! OR I'll BAN U! You are even lucky you get a response back before I ban you! Student: *shivers and goes to a corner*
On March 22 2007 00:58 yubee wrote: Beyonder, a young cop, manages to bust "Chibi" Owens, the long time criminal with an equally long rap sheet. However, in the arrest, he makes one fatal mistake: he forgets to read him his miranda rights! Owens's lawyer and long time partner in crime Robert Baal manages to rouse support from the press and the public for Owens's case, insisting that his rights have been violated, and the city council is forced to intervene.
The mysterious mayor of the city issues a statement through the head warden, Emmanuel Festo, that Chibi Owens will not be released.
YOU BE THE JUDGE!
Forgotten in the emotions, this is the best post of the thread.
On March 22 2007 00:58 yubee wrote: Beyonder, a young cop, manages to bust "Chibi" Owens, the long time criminal with an equally long rap sheet. However, in the arrest, he makes one fatal mistake: he forgets to read him his miranda rights! Owens's lawyer and long time partner in crime Robert Baal manages to rouse support from the press and the public for Owens's case, insisting that his rights have been violated, and the city council is forced to intervene.
The mysterious mayor of the city issues a statement through the head warden, Emmanuel Festo, that Chibi Owens will not be released.
YOU BE THE JUDGE!
Forgotten in the emotions, this is the best post of the thread.
Don't really get why my moderating comrades are even responding to some of the instigations in this forum. Baal knows nothing about this whole ordeal. We have a topic in the Men in Red forum with 157 replies now where I made a very lengthy post trying to prove what drone did is wrong. I won't copy it for obvious reasons - I'd be doing the same thing as drone by making delicate staff issues public. By now he apologized for his actions against beyonder and baal is still feeding on drone's posts like a know-it-all when drone only posted a few tiny details of the whole ordeal to make beyonder look bad in front of the general crowd. Let me just say this again, in bold and upper case so you ignorants may finally see the light:
BEYONDER BANNING CHIBI PREMATURELY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DISCUSSION AT HAND, HE WAS CORRECTED AND HE APOLOGIZED AND WE CONTINUED THE DISCUSSION LIKE NOTHING HAD YET OCCURED
Considering baal goes out of his way basically saying he knows better for whatever fucked up reason is totally inconsiderate. If I read this before I would've temp-banned him faster than mani did. Whatever you people (Kwark) have to argue about, we don't give a fuck. We do as we see fit and if you don't like it, that's your problem, not ours. That's the way this forum works, if you don't like it, you can leave, we don't care a whole lot. But seeing as you're probably enticed to this forum a lil', I don't see you leaving. This belief is based on you trying so hard.
I'll copy a little paragraph from my post in the mir forum and leave it at that:
On March 21 2007 12:38 Twisted wrote: My view on things: I fully support beyonder and I agree that chibi should've been perma-banned way earlier. I think testie also brought up some good points. Baal is just an idiot who thinks the good ol' days were way better, but he totally missed the influx of new good posters and I think the quality of our forums has been way better lately than it was. Not that I read it much anymore, but when skimming topics there are just way more intelligent replies than it was before. I also agree with testie that chibi contributed nothing but his twisted views on pedophilia and drunken ramblings and the sane post here and there, but as I said earlier, you remember the stuff that's bad, not the good posts he made because bad posts tend to take notice way more.
And I don't think I have written any statement before about chibi in public. I don't know where you're coming from baal that I was pretty much the only one with a clear cut case while I actually was one of the mods that pretty much kept out of the entire discussion in the MIR forum until drone started publicly assaulting beyonder with half-baked stories.
I honestly fail to see what the big deal is here... If you were going to ban anyone that said something that might be offensive to other people, you\'d have a pretty boring forum. I don\'t know much of this Chibi character, but truth is, whatever he posts, it\'s easy enough to simply ignore. For heaven\'s sake... it\'s the internet. God knows there are more than a few strange people out there. The key is simply avoiding them or ignoring them. If he wants to post his sick and twisted views regarding pedophilia, by all means let him. Sure it might offend some people, but when you deal with a community, people will always be offended by one thing or another anyway. If anyone gets heated up about it, it\'s honestly their own fault for being bothered by some random person online. I don\'t see why everyone\'s getting all riled up about this. It\'s not that I support pedophilia or anything, but I believe that people for the most part, should be allowed to speak their mind, particularly on a forum where a post can easily be skipped or ignored. If you get bothered by it, it\'s only because you\'re letting yourself be bothered by it.
Pedophilia and Chibi aside, there are plenty of things that I have read on the forums that offend me and I know everyone has been offended at one point or another by a given post. The reason for this is simply difference of opinion and everyone\'s need to defend their own point. You can say that one day I\'ll have a daughter (I\'m 22 btw.) and I\'ll understand that I wouldn\'t want people talking about molesting little girls, but at the same time, I wouldn\'t want people talking about drugs or homosexuality either... While it bothers me, I\'m not going to go out of my way to try to shut someone up because that\'s their own personal opinion and I\'m sure that many things I say and believe would probably offend that person as well.
All that being said, I do believe there must be a given set of rules and certain codes of conduct established and enforced for the betterment of any given community. But these rules must be enforced objectively and consistently for them to be taken seriously and in all reality, they are not. We all know and it is a well accepted fact that certain people are allowed to get away with more than others, namely the more respected members of the community. But should this be so? If anything, shouldn\'t long-time users and respected members be held to a higher standard? You can argue all you want about their contributions, but at the same time, many of them are obviously not contributing when it comes down to maintaining a mature atmosphere on the forums. If the most vocal and visible people are getting away with this and that, how can you expect others to take the rules seriously? This is one of the problems I\'ve seen from skimming this topic. There seem to be people complaining that Chibi was banned while some other people that said worse things or equal things weren\'t.
I don\'t know the entire situation and I don\'t pretend to know. Like I\'ve said, I don\'t know who Chibi is and I\'ve not read his posts aside from the quotes that were in the OP. While I don\'t agree with his views, I certainly don\'t find them so offensive as to be bothered by them. Worse things are said everyday all around us. Why let yourself be bothered by something so simple as this? I honestly don\'t think he deserves a ban just for trolling and posting his opinions and stupidity and even if banned, certainly not perma-banned. I\'ve not been around TL.net long enough to \"remember the good old days\" and to me, the environment looks pretty much like any other internet forum out there. You have good posters and you have your share of idiots. If you want to place some threshold on the amount of stupidity that is allowed before being punished, you really have to set a clear boundary and enforce it consistently. This goes for both regular users and mods. Without that clear boundary, you leave yourself open for controversy and drama... Just my two cents, but if you\'re going to ban Chibi, I think it\'s important to state specifically what offense(s) he was banned for and consistently mete out the same punishment for anyone else that commits such an offense...
But then again, this is a private forum and therefore a dictatorship where right and wrong is determined by the people that own it, so whatever. I don\'t know why I\'m bothering to post.
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*Edit: Just out of curiosity, how can you possibly ensure that someone is perma-banned? If you ban their IP, they can just change their IP. If you ban their username, they can just make a new one...
EPT
