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LOTV macro imbalance oversight from blizzard - Page 3

Forum Index > Closed
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FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
June 16 2016 01:14 GMT
#41
How is this an oversight? They nerfed the strength of chrono to compensate.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17255 Posts
June 16 2016 01:36 GMT
#42
nah, i think things are fine.

i'm open to a complete overhaul of all macro-mechanics for all races as DK alluded they MIGHT revisit when they were really mucking around with the economy during the LotV beta.

Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
BreakfastBurrito
Profile Joined November 2011
United States893 Posts
June 16 2016 01:42 GMT
#43
anyone looking for the next level of comedy, imagine he just lost a game to P and try reading the whole thing in his voice
twitch.tv/jaytherey | Yapper891 if you are reading this, PM me. its Twisty.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17255 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-16 01:51:33
June 16 2016 01:47 GMT
#44
On June 16 2016 10:42 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
anyone looking for the next level of comedy, imagine he just lost a game to P and try reading the whole thing in his voice

i'm watching the OJ documentary thing...

i'm imagining David Kim in the white ford bronco with all of Avi-Nation tracking him down in Avi-Nation police vehicles and an Avilo-Copter overhead filiming the action as DK is fleeing....

and for audio Avilo himself is cross-examing DK's balance decisions via cell phone.

its all part of the most important documentary of SC2...

Avilo : Made In America
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
June 16 2016 02:15 GMT
#45
On June 16 2016 08:15 _Darwin_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2016 05:57 avilo wrote:

It is why in every single PvT right now Protoss is ahead 30-40 supply, and on 4 bases versus a Terran that just landed their 3rd and can't even fight a non-splash damage gateway army of pure mass adepts/blink stalkers.


It's really difficult to take you seriously when you use hyperbole like this.

Avolis posts make a lot more sense if you replace "terran" with "me". Maybe we can have an auto-replace hardcoded into TL for him?
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
June 16 2016 02:20 GMT
#46
Another balance qq thread from Avilo. Chrono is always up, but its a much lesser boost to production. You could easily argue that this is one of the biggest nerfs protoss early game got in WOL, as it delays warpgate a lot. I don't see a problem with it, due to its benefit being countered with a rather massive nerf. Put it back to a 50% build speed buff and Avilo will whine about the speed warp gate comes out at.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
June 16 2016 02:23 GMT
#47
On June 16 2016 09:07 Parcelleus wrote:
Lets balance the game for avilo, yeah right. pfff


How does Protoss having 400-500 extra minerals every game early game have anything to do with "balance for avilo?" lol
Sup
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
June 16 2016 02:40 GMT
#48
@ the people wanting to remove macro mechanics altogether, it could cause some serious problems with regards to scans.. Any kind of banshee/DT/burrow plays would be completely dead because you have tons of scans available. Terran could be even lazier about scouting because there would be no drawback to scanning liberally whenever (even super early) to see what you need to see. Basically scan would have to be completely reworked.
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
ecnahc
Profile Joined January 2010
United States395 Posts
June 16 2016 02:44 GMT
#49
On June 16 2016 11:23 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2016 09:07 Parcelleus wrote:
Lets balance the game for avilo, yeah right. pfff


How does Protoss having 400-500 extra minerals every game early game have anything to do with "balance for avilo?" lol


define early game, define the number of probes lotv-toss has over hots-toss, define how this effects the balance of the tvp matchup in your opinion. start here and maybe you can formulate an argument.
inside a cloud of resentment and vanity
Lightrush
Profile Joined July 2015
Bulgaria164 Posts
June 16 2016 03:06 GMT
#50
Protoss can take an earlier 3rd because of Pylon Overcharge, not Chronoboost.
User was warned for this post
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
June 16 2016 03:54 GMT
#51
I did think about this, but i also thought that Blizzard must have tested the shit out of it and they know what they are doing. After the Cyclone and mech debacle i guess anything is possible.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Scarlett`
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada2393 Posts
June 16 2016 03:58 GMT
#52
On June 16 2016 11:40 Fatam wrote:
@ the people wanting to remove macro mechanics altogether, it could cause some serious problems with regards to scans.. Any kind of banshee/DT/burrow plays would be completely dead because you have tons of scans available. Terran could be even lazier about scouting because there would be no drawback to scanning liberally whenever (even super early) to see what you need to see. Basically scan would have to be completely reworked.

well people would not always skip making scvs to make orbital
Progamer
Thinh123456
Profile Joined July 2015
70 Posts
June 16 2016 04:05 GMT
#53
Just remove all macro mechanics. For those who are afraid of scan imba, just increase the energy cost for scan. Done.
feanaro
Profile Joined March 2014
United States123 Posts
June 16 2016 04:30 GMT
#54
I didn't think this was possible. Protoss gets nerfed and terran actually have the nerve to whine about it. I guess it's just an automatic reaction for avilo.
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-16 04:54:11
June 16 2016 04:40 GMT
#55
Totally agree! It's also absurd how Protoss is able to keep up in econ against Zerg so easily as well. But more importantly, the old chrono was way more flexible and allowed for some sick timings that just aren't possible with the new implementation. Now, the Protoss macro mechanic has been automated, but the other races haven't!

Avilo, I think your points are legit, but you post this knowing that you're going to get a ton of the usual shit...which sucks!

>> There's only one thing that the new chrono is really good at now, and that's boosting workers. But since it does that constantly from the beginning of the game, that means that Protoss is able to keep up in workers with the other two races (especially important in PvZ) all game long, which ends up accelerating everything else. I believe there was a thread on BNET a month or two ago that did some fancy math to show that it actually ends up doing this better than HOTS chrono.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
TheWinks
Profile Joined July 2011
United States572 Posts
June 16 2016 05:07 GMT
#56
On June 16 2016 12:58 Scarlett` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2016 11:40 Fatam wrote:
@ the people wanting to remove macro mechanics altogether, it could cause some serious problems with regards to scans.. Any kind of banshee/DT/burrow plays would be completely dead because you have tons of scans available. Terran could be even lazier about scouting because there would be no drawback to scanning liberally whenever (even super early) to see what you need to see. Basically scan would have to be completely reworked.

well people would not always skip making scvs to make orbital

By 'not always' it would be 'amost never'
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10691 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-16 05:42:52
June 16 2016 05:41 GMT
#57
I actually saw the thread title and knew immediately, Avilo.

Well played, would read again, although it should be in blogs man.

Of course Protoss will always have their 3rd Nexus up before you in PvT because of the way you play, lol.

EDIT : Protoss does not have this fast 3rd Nexus advantage over Zerg really at this point, as well as I am pretty sure they don't vs Terran either. There are plenty of openings and styles as Terran that allow you to have your 3rd before Protoss in many situations, usually going Avilo style Mech is not one of them.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
todespolka
Profile Joined November 2012
221 Posts
June 16 2016 05:51 GMT
#58
Why dont we calculate it. We take the same timewindow for old and new and compare them. The old chrono was 20s active and used 45s to reload.

New chrono:
15*(20+45)*2/3 = 650

Old chrono:
50*20*2/3= 666.67


That shows that the old chrono was slightly better, which makes sense, because the old one was harder to use. The difference is very small. I suppose, the timing mistakes had a bigger impact.
TedBurtle
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Belarus201 Posts
June 16 2016 06:30 GMT
#59
Avilo as always...whine whine whine but no math dude....make calculations, etc, then go and write up billion words articles about things that based on more numbers than 5 more workers = 500 more minerals...1 mule = 788324792 more minerals, that compensate all terran losses (and they come from building structures, and making of orbital, not because chrono OP)
Unbeatable Protoss
TaShadan
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany1978 Posts
June 16 2016 06:56 GMT
#60
On June 16 2016 06:14 MaxTa wrote:
Show nested quote +
yea I'd like to see chronoboost reverted


Or even better: all macro mechanics removed...


This. But i guess this will never happen.
Total Annihilation Zero
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