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Making this thread because i thought someone else would make it by now, but no one has, and the imbalance i'm going to describe is one reason why Protoss currently is currently so oppressive versus T with fast 3 nexus and even vs Z as well.
I guess i suffered from bystander effect in this case. lol.
The LOTV balance designers massively overlooked one of the macro mechanics, chronoboost, when they changed all of the macro mechanics in LOTV.
In WOL/HOTS, Protoss DOES NOT START THE GAME WITH CHRONOBOOST AVAILABLE, NOR DOES IT INFINITELY STAY ON BUILDINGS. (chrono required a build up of 25 energy that was then used and lasted only a short while).
Why is this an issue of imbalance?
Everyone knows economy is the most important thing in a game of SC2 that can snowball games from start to finish.
Protoss in LOTV for some reason (balance designer oversight it seems) is starting every single game with chronoboost enabled.
This means Protoss economy is at a place in LOTV where it is not supposed to be at compared to the other two races. It is why in every single PvT right now Protoss is ahead 30-40 supply, and on 4 bases versus a Terran that just landed their 3rd and can't even fight a non-splash damage gateway army of pure mass adepts/blink stalkers.
Zerg and Terran both unlock their macro mechanics with a queen, and with an orbital, which require both a spawning pool and a barracks respectively to unlock.
Protoss is starting every single game with chronoboost enabled on their nexus. This is creating an imbalance in economy in favor of Protoss players that should not exist.
WOL/HOTS required not only 25 energy before a Protoss was able to begin using chronoboost, but the chronoboost was not infinitely available to chrono probes 100% of the time, nor would a Protoss player ever 100% be using chrono on probes in the first place because you had to manually decide to use it on production, probes, or on your upgrades.
Or a Protoss player would simply FORGET to chrono anything and have built up 100 chrono on their nexus in which case they were not getting boosted probe production.
I do not think it's healthy for Protoss to have infinite chronoboost on their worker production that disallows any human error in forgetting to chrono things, and not to mention is available from the very first probe production of the game which is spiralling Protoss economy out of control in every match-up.
Perhaps chronoboost should be unlocked after completion of a gateway. For people that do not think this is all a big deal - it is. If you're able to have 4-5 more workers in the early stages of a game that you normally would not have...that's another 400-500 minerals per minute that is a huge fucking deal and creates imbalances in the game that should not exist.
In the case of PvT, those extra minerals are exactly why the match-up is so fucked up right now for Protoss being able to go triple nexus - those few extra minerals allow for the 3rd nexus with almost no drawback in any other category of the game.
Discussion on this would be great, thanks.
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I think the old Chrono was 50% boost speed for 20s and now it's only something like 15% boost but always activated so ya... I agree it's too easy to use and almost all Protoss are using it the same way. I would like to see it back to casting it for 25 energy cost, maybe not for 50% speed boost but something like 30%...
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yea I'd like to see chronoboost reverted
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Even if what you say is true, the game is balanced around the new chronoboost so there's no problem with that.
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Not to mention mules got a slight nerf in lotv, 5 minerals less.
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yea I'd like to see chronoboost reverted
Or even better: all macro mechanics removed...
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At least link the thread on bnet (us.battle.net) and or include the calculations from that thread that show the new chrono being a buff for probe production but a nerf for upgrades and units. Also, there is still room for human error by having chrono being active on a building that's not producing or researching anything.
Your threads would be much better received if they were actually written and presented properly.
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So, this must be the reason why protoss is by far underrepresented in every league above silver? To a terran/zerg ladder hero this protoss state must be crushing experience!
Maybe nerf protoss some more so those P players left can move on to some other game? Or go to silver and bronze where majority of protoss ranked ladder players already are.
Source: http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/races/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&l=-2
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There are design merits to reverting chronoboost, but avilo's "balance" reasons are nothing but whining.
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Sadly, chronoboost is the least of LotV's problems...
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Canada8160 Posts
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wow never saw a guy who cry about chronoboost, i think avilo trolls only
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The game is oriented heavily towards killing workers ATM. Bravo almost shoved classic (fucking classic) out code S by simply killing the most workers he could. Ignore the army, go for workers, all the time. He used each and every single one of his liberators, a unit that's supposed to be a strong positional area control unit, to siege mineral lines.
Adjustements to chronoboost, overcharge, liberators, zerg T3 and other areas of the game would tone down the ridiculously high importance of "MUST KILL WORKERS" bullshit.
But that's never gonna happen because DK is still convinced that "omg worker kills so cool"
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Italy12248 Posts
Uh, i didn't know that 15% and 50% are in fact the same number. Or that stacking chrono and having it always active but in a weaker version makes the two comparable. You learn something new every day.
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On June 16 2016 06:14 MaxTa wrote:Or even better: all macro mechanics removed...
+1, good idea.
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On June 16 2016 06:47 NutriaKaiN wrote:
wow never saw a guy who cry about chronoboost, i think avilo trolls only
i was crying about this too. Gotta agree with Avilo here,
When i look up a pro ZvP game, or when i am watching my own replays. I see that every single time protoss is going same worker count as zerg till ~60 workers (In a standart macro game where initial adepts & lings don't do any damage) which was never the case before lotv. So basically you always start behind vs Protoss simply because their units are superior, if i don't have eco advantage, how can i afford to trade my thrash units and what is the point of being swarm?
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On June 16 2016 07:16 Ape_Island wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2016 06:14 MaxTa wrote:yea I'd like to see chronoboost reverted Or even better: all macro mechanics removed... +1, good idea.
Back in beta, when there weren't macro boosters. I had the most fun with the game.
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On June 16 2016 07:19 404AlphaSquad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2016 07:16 Ape_Island wrote:On June 16 2016 06:14 MaxTa wrote:yea I'd like to see chronoboost reverted Or even better: all macro mechanics removed... +1, good idea. Back in beta, when there weren't macro boosters. I had the most fun with the game.
I support this - If blizzard's reading
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Wow I didn't even know about this. That's a pretty big macro imbalance right there.
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The way i see the game is perfectly balanced.
Mass gateway units = Terran 2.0
Mech = Protoss 2.0
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EPT
