EffOrt returns to Brood War

On January 01 2015 17:47 lemmata wrote:

Original here
Members of Sonic TV: Thank you for coming in to work hard on the first day of the year.

Thank you, Cho Minsung PD and other staff members. Thank you caster Jung Sorim, commentator Kim Carry, and commentator TheMarine.
Thank you, everyone who watched todays games. Thank you, everyone who came to see the matches offline despite the cold weather.
The round of 32 has concluded successfully. This is the first time that the studio has been opened since the construction at Sonic TV studio. It was warmed by the passion of the many people who came today.
This is only the beginning. Starting January 7, the Sbenu Starleague will be broadcast on Ongamenet.
I would like to find more talented players and develop amateur players so that a Brood War league can continuously exist into the distant future. It will be a long-term project, but it does not seem impossible if you and I combine our efforts.
Effort has already signed up for the next league and I hope to include more amateurs as well.
It makes me depressed to think that I am a year older. Ha~ T_T
Happy new year!
Thank you^^
The resurrection of Brood War that we've been talking about for a long time is finally near.

On January 04 2015 16:51 kjwcj wrote:
If he turns out to be as bad as ZerO my heart will break.

On January 04 2015 16:48 Elyvilon wrote:

I mean, EffOrt was a great player, but he hasn't played BW seriously, if at all, in 3 years. He certainly has the potential to be one of the best again, but let's not crown him too early, okay?

On January 04 2015 17:51 c3rberUs wrote:
Just curious, who may the other zerg be if EffOrt is the third? Jaedong, ___, EffOrt?
Is it + Show Spoiler +.
Is it + Show Spoiler +
I doubt its ZerO.

On January 04 2015 17:48 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Fuck yeah broodwar. Can't wait till kespa comes back in full.

On January 04 2015 17:53 Lucumo wrote:
Not my favorite player but I take what I can get.

On January 04 2015 16:51 kjwcj wrote:
If he turns out to be as bad as ZerO my heart will break.

On January 04 2015 18:15 L_Master wrote:


Other than a (major) glitch in SSL, ZerO has been a fucking monster the last few months.

On January 04 2015 17:51 c3rberUs wrote:
Just curious, who may the other zerg be if EffOrt is the third? Jaedong, ___, EffOrt?

On January 04 2015 18:39 ForTehDarkseid wrote:

It's Soulkey.

On January 04 2015 18:42 Probemicro wrote:


soulkey didnt have any BW accomplishments other than being a strong proleague player and up and rising zerg.

On January 04 2015 18:42 Sanders wrote:
With a bit of effort the next SSL could be fantastic.

On January 04 2015 18:44 ForTehDarkseid wrote:

It's not about accomplishments, it's about style of play.

On January 04 2015 18:48 kjwcj wrote:
i guess it depends on what your definition of modern is.

zero or soulkey over effort over any period of time is insanity though.

On January 04 2015 18:47 Probemicro wrote:


people like july, savior, gorush deserve to be there more than him for actually influencing the metagame and accomplishing something. soulkey is brillant in sc2 but hes just above average in BW

On January 04 2015 18:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:

you missed his series against Fanta in MSL, I see.

On January 04 2015 18:55 Probemicro wrote:


you missed effort's comeback win against flash in a freaking osl finals i see.

On January 04 2015 18:49 ForTehDarkseid wrote:

1) Jaedong; 2) EffOrt; 3) Soulkey imo.

On January 04 2015 18:55 Probemicro wrote:


you missed effort's comeback win against flash in a freaking osl finals i see.

On January 04 2015 16:48 Elyvilon wrote:

I mean, EffOrt was a great player, but he hasn't played BW seriously, if at all, in 3 years. He certainly has the potential to be one of the best again, but let's not crown him too early, okay?

On January 04 2015 18:59 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@kjwj, Soulkey had better ZvT than Hydra and ZerO.

On January 04 2015 18:59 ForTehDarkseid wrote:

ffs I am not arguing that Soulkey is better than Effort.

@kjwj, Soulkey had better ZvT than Hydra and ZerO.

On January 04 2015 18:48 kjwcj wrote:
i guess it depends on what your definition of modern is.

zero or soulkey over effort over any period of time is insanity though.

On January 04 2015 17:51 c3rberUs wrote:
Just curious, who may the other zerg be if EffOrt is the third? Jaedong, ___, EffOrt?
Is it + Show Spoiler +.
Is it + Show Spoiler +
Is it GGPlay?
I doubt its ZerO.

On January 04 2015 19:09 kjwcj wrote:
by what metric?

On January 04 2015 18:47 Probemicro wrote:


people like july, savior, gorush deserve to be there more than him for actually influencing the metagame and accomplishing something. soulkey is brillant in sc2 but hes just above average in BW

On January 04 2015 19:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Post Savior ranking is Jaedong-Chasm-The Rest in terms of ranking. No one touched Jaedong, and the gap between Jaedong and Effort is many times greater than the gap between Effort and the rest of the swarm.

On January 04 2015 20:01 Thinasy wrote:


Just above average? what did I just read.

Also your post regarding win rate is stupid, the difference in their actual skill in ZvT is huge. Soulkey had flaws that stopped him from winning a title, but nontheless he's played some of the best ZvT games during the 2010-2012 period without a doubt

On January 04 2015 20:14 Probemicro wrote:
oh zero has bad zvt compared to soulkey's top tier zvt. why does soulkey not have say 60% win rate then?

On January 04 2015 19:23 lemmata wrote:

Well, July has a Golden Mouse to his name.

On January 04 2015 20:31 SC2BF3Love wrote:
i know this was going to happen, BW will became what it was before if SC2: LotV doesnt deliver.

On January 04 2015 20:50 ShloobeR wrote:


What a weird situation for Blizzard to find themselves in

On January 04 2015 20:09 darktreb wrote:
I don't think Jangbi was a pantheon level player).

On January 04 2015 20:50 ShloobeR wrote:


What a weird situation for Blizzard to find themselves in

On January 04 2015 20:21 ForTehDarkseid wrote:

Because ZerO was ZvP specialist in Woongjin, he played less Terrans in Proleague.

On January 04 2015 22:07 deathgod6 wrote:
Effort vs Hiya right now!

On January 04 2015 21:19 Hadronsbecrazy wrote:



it probably will , doesnt look like blizz wants to help sc2 too much :/

On January 04 2015 18:28 kjwcj wrote:


regardless of his sponleague/41sl form, it's hard to call what happened in SSL a glitch when he has a sub-50% winrate in 2/3 match-ups.

On January 04 2015 21:44 lemmata wrote:

Except ZerO played more games against Terran in Proleague than Soulkey did. Most of Soulkey's advantage in ZvT comes from the small-time events.

Soulkey 23-23 ZvT in Proleague proper (excludes event team leagues and JV leagues)
Zero 38-35 ZvT in Proleague proper (excludes event team leagues and JV leagues)

Soulkey 5-4 ZvT in OSL/MSL main tournaments
Zero 14-11 ZvT in OSL/MSL main tournaments

Soulkey 1-6 vs Flash
Zero 4-7 vs Flash

Soulkey 7-1 vs Fantasy
Zero 5-9 vs Fantasy

Basically, the difference in their ZvT comes down to their individual differences against a single player: Fantasy. Zero also had the "misfortune" of advancing far in individual leagues, which led him to face more top Terrans in high-stakes series. There's no strong evidence to suggest that Soulkey was significantly better than ZerO at ZvT.

People can also certainly believe that Soulkey was a better player overall than Zero if they want. However, it would certainly have to be based on how good he was against Fantasy. Well, I suppose it's all a matter of personal opinion and some version of the eye test. Soulkey certainly had an identifiable style that certain kinds of people really like. However, in terms of individual league achievements they're not even comparable.

Soulkey 11-12 in OSL/MSL main tournaments
Zero 64-47 in OSL/MSL main tournaments (54%/67%/54% v T/P/Z)

Quite striking if you consider the fact that advancing likely means facing stronger players.

On January 05 2015 02:55 [F_]aths wrote:

A handful of guys who couldn't made a successful transition now proves that new game is terrible?

Can't we get along? Most of us prefer one or the other, but does it follow that the one we don't prefer over the other is terrible?

On January 05 2015 02:55 [F_]aths wrote:

A handful of guys who couldn't made a successful transition now proves that new game is terrible?

Can't we get along? Most of us prefer one or the other, but does it follow that the one we don't prefer over the other is terrible?

On January 05 2015 02:58 9heart wrote:
Vods

http://www.twitch.tv/snipealot4/b/607006312

On January 05 2015 04:15 Strela wrote:

Just because someone can't make the transition to a new game or doesn't have the skill for it, it doesn't mean blizzard did a bad job or that sc2 is a bad game.

On January 05 2015 04:25 Lazare1969 wrote:
Complaining about SC2 and Blizzard's actions is totally pointless because it was all inevitable.

Blizzard made the right business choice, just like with Diablo 3.

With Starcraft Broodwar, Blizzard hardly made any money because of the rampant piracy (due of LAN and private servers), and the very low selling price of the game.

Guys, someone has to pay for Bobby Kotick's yacht and Mike Morhaime's mansion. Money doesn't grow on trees, it comes from you, the customers.

If I was the CEO of Blizzard, I would do whatever it takes to cash in on the Starcraft name, by making a piracy-proof sequel that is intended to replace the poorly-earning original game.

As CEO of Blizzard, I would do whatever it takes to convince my customers that they don't really need LAN, and that we are truly committed on providing an excellent gameplay experience to the fullest extent of our PR campaigning.

On January 05 2015 04:25 Lazare1969 wrote:
Complaining about SC2 and Blizzard's actions is totally pointless because it was all inevitable.

Blizzard made the right business choice, just like with Diablo 3.

With Starcraft Broodwar, Blizzard hardly made any money because of the rampant piracy (due of LAN and private servers), and the very low selling price of the game.

Guys, someone has to pay for Bobby Kotick's yacht and Mike Morhaime's mansion. Money doesn't grow on trees, it comes from you, the customers.

If I was the CEO of Blizzard, I would do whatever it takes to cash in on the Starcraft name, by making a piracy-proof sequel that is intended to replace the poorly-earning original game.

As CEO of Blizzard, I would do whatever it takes to convince my customers that they don't really need LAN, and that we are truly committed on providing an excellent gameplay experience to the fullest extent of our PR campaigning.

On January 05 2015 04:25 Lazare1969 wrote:
Complaining about SC2 and Blizzard's actions is totally pointless because it was all inevitable.

Blizzard made the right business choice, just like with Diablo 3.

With Starcraft Broodwar, Blizzard hardly made any money because of the rampant piracy (due of LAN and private servers), and the very low selling price of the game.

Guys, someone has to pay for Bobby Kotick's yacht and Mike Morhaime's mansion. Money doesn't grow on trees, it comes from you, the customers.

If I was the CEO of Blizzard, I would do whatever it takes to cash in on the Starcraft name, by making a piracy-proof sequel that is intended to replace the poorly-earning original game.

As CEO of Blizzard, I would do whatever it takes to convince my customers that they don't really need LAN, and that we are truly committed on providing an excellent gameplay experience to the fullest extent of our PR campaigning.

On January 05 2015 06:28 _Animus_ wrote:

Its not about that, Blizzard killed starcraft scene in korea with SC2, NOBODY wants to watch sc2, halls are empty and vewer count is embarrasingly low (ogn admited it a year ago), thats what they did by replacing bw with sc2! Again im talking about Korea and im angry cuz they killed such great passionate scene to leave nothing afterwards. I and not only me for sure wouldve understand if sc2 was going strong and players wasnt leaving so much in dissapointment, thats destroyed careers and dreams of people you know.

On January 04 2015 16:48 Elyvilon wrote:

I mean, EffOrt was a great player, but he hasn't played BW seriously, if at all, in 3 years. He certainly has the potential to be one of the best again, but let's not crown him too early, okay?

On January 04 2015 18:44 ForTehDarkseid wrote:

It's not about accomplishments, it's about style of play.

The rule is universal: those who have best ZvT, are the best Zergs in Starcraft.

On January 05 2015 06:28 _Animus_ wrote:

Its not about that, Blizzard killed starcraft scene in korea with SC2, NOBODY wants to watch sc2, halls are empty and vewer count is embarrasingly low (ogn admited it a year ago), thats what they did by replacing bw with sc2! Again im talking about Korea and im angry cuz they killed such great passionate scene to leave nothing afterwards. I and not only me for sure wouldve understand if sc2 was going strong and players wasnt leaving so much in dissapointment, thats destroyed careers and dreams of people you know.

On January 05 2015 04:52 rift wrote:

List of best-selling PC games:
StarCraft - 11 million, 5th all time
StarCraft 2 - 6 million

On January 05 2015 12:02 Lazare1969 wrote:

1998 to 2004 - 9.5m copies of StarCraft sold at full price
2004 to 2011 - 1.5m copies of StarCraft sold at reduced price

On January 05 2015 08:27 Cele wrote:


it shows how awesome this community and this game is, that we are coming back despite of it. Players are returning, we have two Starleagues running etc etc. Broodwar can't be stopped it seems, because it's fans actually care about the game. So let us enjoy the good times and leave behind the bad times (;

On January 05 2015 00:20 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
amazing

On January 04 2015 20:14 Probemicro wrote:


zero played many top tier games as well, with flashy heavy queen usage in zvt, and hive zvz which not many zergs dare to venture into.

oh zero has bad zvt compared to soulkey's top tier zvt. why does soulkey not have say 60% win rate then? are you going to say something about arbitrary "flaws". or you are just going terran imba/tank OP?

On January 04 2015 23:18 L_Master wrote:


Ehm.... SK's matchlist vs T from pro BW is absurd. It's like 75% of the top tier guys: Flash, Light, Fantasy, Bogus, hiyA, leta, etc. Winning 53% of that is damn good.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that ZerO was a better individual league player than SK, but a strong argument can be made for SK having ZvT just as good as ZerO in regular games, not at least a portion of is the fact that SK was THE large pioneer in developing ZvLategame mech, and was almost universally agreed to be the strongest zerg against the lategame mech transition.

On January 05 2015 09:32 Masheyoon wrote:
Amusingly, what happened three years ago appears to be happening now, only it's SC2 that's fading and BW emerging.

The bitterness people feel towards Blizzard is understandable. What Mike Morhaime said directly after the final OSL was appalling (Paraphrased: "Brood War's departure is a good thing and will help pave way for SC2."). Instead of appearing impressive in the eyes of many by having a video game that has stood the test of time, Blizzard now appears greedy, selfish and entirely dumb in the eyes of everyone for killing it off in trying to make SC2 as successful as possible. They could have, you know, continued to support both games.

On January 05 2015 18:19 zeo wrote:

You made me remember that Morhaime speech

I can't believe people actually think that the Savior fiasco 'killed' BW, yeah it hurt the scene but it come nowhere close to Blizzard actively trying to shut down and hijack the BW esports scene so 'esports' could be used as a marketing tool for SC2.

Edit: On the topic of Effort, I always liked him more than Jaedong.

On January 05 2015 18:50 PharaphobiaSC2 wrote:


Can you provide some sources for this? I mena any official annoucments etc. I would love to thorw this in blizzard face

On January 06 2015 12:33 bITt.mAN wrote:
Dude, I went to the Gangnam Proleague studio for CJ v SKT this summer, and on the last night, the CJ bus was majorly delayed, and all the CJ guys were just standing around at the entrance to the studio (SKT bounced fast to go eat a celebratory dinner), so I picked up the courage to approach the guys and ask for a photo.
Earlier-on, seeing Canata's proud surprise to discover I'd come from Switzerland to watch Starcraft, and that I remembered him, I'd learned the value of convincing ex-BW pros of your fandom legacy, so I addressed Hydra as "you win MSL" and EffOrt as "OSL Champion, against Lee Yong Ho too".
Overall, I think the experience reminded him when he was on top of the world (though he was putting forward surprisingly good SC2 results, it wasn't enough), so Hydra but particularly EffOrt were BEAMING afterwards. Skyhigh was looking sullen as usual. So was BByong, since I'd asked him to sign my "BBoying has best dance-moves" cheerful (currently residing in an honourable stack in my room).

+ Show Spoiler [Nerd-Cred Delivered] +

Just think that the burden of his mother's ill-health was probably already heavy on him (I'd suspect his first semi-retirement was caused by the same sort of reason). All the best to CJ, and these guys, man, for having hamstringed their lives and careers simply to entertain us, I really hope they can be compensated and cared for. And I REALLY need to get around to blogging the rest of this stuff...

On January 06 2015 21:00 Cascade wrote:
Maybe what the bw section of tl really needs, and the sc2 section when it comes to that, is a dedicated bw vs sc2 thread, to contain all that kind of discussion. It is definitively a topic worthy of discussion in itself, but not every other topic should turn into it. So with a dedicated thread we got a place to discuss that, and even better, a place to send people when a threads goes off topic.

Or does that already exist?

On January 06 2015 22:59 TaShadan wrote:


I guess what TL needs is 2 seperate community pages (for BW and SC2). Like the ones they have for dota 2 and hearthstone. Although they are both called "Starcraft" they do not have much in common, which often leads to aggresive encounters between the 2 communities. I personally can not stand those SC2 guys talking about BW although they never played the game for real (some of them did not play the game at all).

On January 06 2015 23:03 Jaaaaasper wrote:

I suggest against that, liquiddota was a bad idea and I'd rather not see it happen again

I want Fantasy back next plz and thank you.

On January 06 2015 23:40 IntoTheWow wrote:
Yes!!!

ps: oh cheep :<

On January 06 2015 22:59 TaShadan wrote:


I guess what TL needs is 2 seperate community pages (for BW and SC2). Like the ones they have for dota 2 and hearthstone. Although they are both called "Starcraft" they do not have much in common, which often leads to aggresive encounters between the 2 communities. I personally can not stand those SC2 guys talking about BW although they never played the game for real (some of them did not play the game at all).

On January 07 2015 03:08 Cele wrote:


fair enough. I agree the topic is rather stone cold and i dunno either why it has to come up like every time someone switches back or if it is a similar topic.

On January 07 2015 03:30 parkufarku wrote:
Wasn't Effort one of the very few Zergs, if not only, that was a favorite vs. Flash? Even Jaedong seemed like 50/50 against Flash at their peaks (power outage was actually analyzed as a winning game for JD), but I would give the bet to Flash in that scenario because it's top class Zerg vs. top class Terran, and T's always have a huge advantage in that matchup

I love Effort's mass early ling style, it's definitely a changeup from JD's reliance on early mutas or expansion type of game.

On January 07 2015 11:46 BisuDagger wrote:
The last time someone was considered a favorite against Flash, he lost his horribly in his ace match. His name was BeSt.

On January 07 2015 12:36 BisuDagger wrote:

I don't remember that one. Best is either out of this world good or hilariously bad.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GlfO33YkTfw

On January 08 2015 07:06 [F_]aths wrote:
Yes!

I still cannot really understand the condescending attitude of some. Both incarnations have their value, which is incredible in their own right.

SC2 could simply not exist if BW wouldn't be there. I think one does not need to be a Starcraft fan to admit that Broodwar is one of the best games ever made. And guys like EffOrt brought the game to shine. He even beat Flash.

While BW was the right game for the right time, it is preceded in global popularity by SC2 by now. To attain this, you have do to something right. The mass appeal of SC2 takes nothing away from BW's greatness, it only adds to it.

On January 08 2015 08:34 SpeaKEaSY wrote:


except for sAviOr

On January 08 2015 20:16 LongShot27 wrote:


The reason Sc2 is more popular is because it's a better game, hand's down. There is nothing wrong with admitting that the sequel is better than the original. BW was a great game among great games, but claiming the reason Sc2 is more popular is because of contracts with sponsors is the pinnacle of fanboyism

On January 08 2015 20:16 LongShot27 wrote:


The reason Sc2 is more popular is because it's a better game, hand's down. There is nothing wrong with admitting that the sequel is better than the original. BW was a great game among great games, but claiming the reason Sc2 is more popular is because of contracts with sponsors is the pinnacle of fanboyism

On January 08 2015 21:48 opterown wrote:
No more BW vs. SC2 discussion guys, it won't end well

On January 08 2015 09:58 duke91 wrote:
Can Savior ever be forgiven? I would at least like to watch his stream on snipealot....

On January 12 2015 15:57 Phyanketto wrote:
@Dazed_Spy: I agree... I mean, even if we don't trust him, we can still watch him and learn. He paid his debt to society and has apologized.

On January 12 2015 05:01 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Frankly, he should be forgiven. What kind of assholes do we have to be, in order to not forgive someone their faults? He was young, early twenties, we all live long lives, and we cant allow room for error? At least to the point of watching his stream or speaking his name? Its gotten silly.

On April 04 2012 06:03 rotinegg wrote:
hey here's a common misconception in this thread: savior didn't do jail time. He was sentenced to 1 year in prison but with 2 years 집행유예 (=parole? I think) so no he didn't go to jail, and he will most likely end up not going as long as he doesn't break another law. He was sentenced on October 22nd 2010, so his parole is still in effect today. He (officially) started streaming for money early June 2011, not 8 months after his final sentencing in court.

also,

I don't hide behind rumors, I bring them to the limelight and bust down your front door with them. Plus only a tiny bit of what I wrote is rumor (the bit where savior had a talk with Coach Cho and broke down in tears asking for his trust), and even then no effort was made by Coach Cho nor any of the teammates to dispute this widespread rumor. Here are some references for what I wrote:

Amidst rumors of savior's involvement in illegal betting and match fixing, he goes into stealth mode claiming knee injury and cuts off contact with the world (March 2010)

Official articles on match fixing speculation finally surface on Fomos and everybody knows it's savior (April 2010)

Coach Cho defends savior from netizens, saying he will crack down on those spreading rumors with slander charges, and that savior is at home getting treated for his knee with no plans of retirement (April 2010)

Others post apology letters while savior (who still is in stealth mode) gets booted from CJ(May 2010)

Charges drawn up and prosecution formally begins (May 2010)

savior summoned to court, denies brokering while admitting match fixing, still calls himself 'progamer' while the other match fixers have voluntarily retired and refer to themselves as 'unemployed' (June 2010)

Savior finally posts an apology letter (Late July, 2010)

Coach Cho resigns August 2010

savior gets sentenced to jail with Justin, while others are let off with a fine (October 2010)

savior starts streaming for money (June 2011 officially, while it is speculated he started as early as March 2011) and says he will quit (August 2011) but then starts streaming again (November 2011)

On January 12 2015 20:09 Stratos wrote:
She said she had none and I believe her alright. Rip

On January 12 2015 20:45 Probemicro wrote:
given more time i think effort will easily surpass killer/zero as best zerg on fish server. i dont think there will be any new comer doing better than them unless a certain Jaedong finally decide to return (which is probably never, and even if he does it will another year for him to get back into BW shape)

On January 12 2015 20:09 Stratos wrote:
Well with Sc2 vs BW and savior discussions banned what do we discuss next in the "Effort is back" thread?

On January 12 2015 21:11 ICanFlyLow wrote:
What made him switch from SC2? I havnt seen any news about him leaving CJ Entus.

On January 12 2015 21:25 GeckoXp wrote:


we could all bow down to steveman and post memes.

On January 06 2015 12:33 bITt.mAN wrote:
Dude, I went to the Gangnam Proleague studio for CJ v SKT this summer, and on the last night, the CJ bus was majorly delayed, and all the CJ guys were just standing around at the entrance to the studio (SKT bounced fast to go eat a celebratory dinner), so I picked up the courage to approach the guys and ask for a photo.
Earlier-on, seeing Canata's proud surprise to discover I'd come from Switzerland to watch Starcraft, and that I remembered him, I'd learned the value of convincing ex-BW pros of your fandom legacy, so I addressed Hydra as "you win MSL" and EffOrt as "OSL Champion, against Lee Yong Ho too".
Overall, I think the experience reminded him when he was on top of the world (though he was putting forward surprisingly good SC2 results, it wasn't enough), so Hydra but particularly EffOrt were BEAMING afterwards. Skyhigh was looking sullen as usual. So was BByong, since I'd asked him to sign my "BBoying has best dance-moves" cheerful (currently residing in an honourable stack in my room).

+ Show Spoiler [Nerd-Cred Delivered] +

Just think that the burden of his mother's ill-health was probably already heavy on him (I'd suspect his first semi-retirement was caused by the same sort of reason). All the best to CJ, and these guys, man, for having hamstringed their lives and careers simply to entertain us, I really hope they can be compensated and cared for. And I REALLY need to get around to blogging the rest of this stuff...