|
Please keep the QQ to a minimum if you do not like this update. We are happy to hear your reasoning for not liking a ranked system, but no "OMG VOLVO WHY" posts. |
United States47024 Posts
The thing with support in pubgames is that you're not just playing the game, you're playing off the players in it as well.
It's true that mid controls the tempo of the game, but the first thing is that he has to be in control of mid to do so. This means you might be pressured by certain extraneous factors.
The strength of support in pubs is that you have total freedom. From minute zero, you have the choice of where to apply you're influence because you're not expected to farm a lane. You trade your limited impact later for this choice, but this means you have to take advantage of this choice.
As a support you're going to get shitty teammates. That's a reality. But on average, you will get just as many players who are better than you than you do players that are worse than you. Sometimes, though, that better player is not going to be in a situation where he can necessarily carry the game, so he won't snowball unless he gets set up. He'll carry the game if that snowball just gets rolling but he needs that help, say, in a tough mid matchup, or in a 1v2 off-lane. As a support you need to recognize that this guy is the guy who will win the game for you, not stick to the carry who can't lasthit more than 1 creep a wave and complain that your teammates suck.
Conversely, you need to play off how the ENEMY can snowball against themselves. Think about what happens when you get a bad mid player and he gets ganked. He complains that his teammates didn't ward or something, gets angry and goes on tilt. He'll probably get himself killed again even though he shouldn't, generally screw up his team's mindset and performance together, and overall give up a lot more control over the game than 1 gank might actually be worth. A player who goes on tilt like that can very quickly become absolutely worthless to his team, and as a support, you are in a position early game to find that guy who's going to tilt, rage, and single-handedly lose his team the game, and just pick on that guy.
On January 15 2014 09:51 Xahhk wrote:
You don't see that 5000+ rating guy on playdota leveling a 2500 account choosing to play support for a reason.
But that experience is basically relevant to no one. People like to pretend that they always get games where the 4 other people on their team are worse than them, but nobody is so far gone from their actual skill for this to be true.
|
http://dotabuff.com/players/91094334/matches
been playing enigma a lot recently, a lot of my games are ending pre 35 minutes due to the opposition not knowing how to deal with my push potential+early mek, before the last loss i was 4019 so I've hit my goal of 4k MMR
|
In LoL people care about solo queue enough that there's a tier list for hero strength in solo queue. How do you guys think this would look for dota2?
|
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On January 16 2014 00:40 rob.au wrote:
In LoL people care about solo queue enough that there's a tier list for hero strength in solo queue. How do you guys think this would look for dota2?
http://dotabuff.com/blog/2014-01-09-pub-tier-list-679
Earthspirit is in "Tier 6: Repick Heroes", so you know it's 100% correct and legit.
|
Well the limits of ridiculousness has been surpassed the situation has become completely tragicomic,i dont know if i have to lol or to cry when i see dat vanguard pl.
Based in my playing experience i ll point what i think is the problem in this mm.
1)The calibration system is a joke there is no calibration at all even if you go well nothing changes maybe about 200-300 points because its based in the previews rigged system.I play 2700-3200 and i cant see any difference in skill level its the same thing.
2)The categories of skill level are not enough you got 4000 and you play with dendi and you got 3999 and you play with the pl vanguard,its so stupid its like you got only 2 sizes in clothes small and xlarge for all the people.
3)I cant climb up not only as support but even as mid(winner) because its the same rigged system the fifty-fifty partners you win one you lose the other because if you climb up someone ll fall and thats bad for valves customers maybe they stop playing and buy the shits.
I m stuck i cant climb up my 2700 account nor the 3100 so how is this possible in this ''flawless'' system?Maybe in 100 years i can finally reach from 3100 to 3200.
I dont believe in valve they are so useless this system is bad because they want it bad it serves other purposes that are not related with the competitive play.
|
It's based on winrate, can you call Earth Spirit a pub stomper if he only wins in 45% of games?
|
Czech Republic18921 Posts
I would say Earthspirit is pretty strong in pubs, yes.
On January 16 2014 00:45 phantomlancer23 wrote:
Well the limits of ridiculousness has been surpassed the situation has become completely tragicomic,i dont know if i have to lol or to cry when i see dat vanguard pl.
Based in my playing experience i ll point what i think is the problem in this mm.
1)The calibration system is a joke there is no calibration at all even if you go well nothing changes maybe about 200-300 points because its based in the previews rigged system.I play 2700-3200 and i cant see any difference in skill level its the same thing.
2)The categories of skill level are not enough you got 4000 and you play with dendi and you got 3999 and you play with the pl vanguard,its so stupid its like you got only 2 sizes in clothes small and xlarge for all the people.
3)I cant climb up not only as support but even as mid(winner) because its the same rigged system the fifty-fifty partners you win one you lose the other because if you climb up someone ll fall and thats bad for valves customers maybe they stop playing and buy the shits.
I m stuck i cant climb up my 2700 account nor the 3100 so how is this possible in this ''flawless'' system?Maybe in 100 years i can finally reach from 3100 to 3200.
I dont believe in valve they are so useless this system is bad because they want it bad it serves other purposes that are not related with the competitive play.
Honest question for mods, are posts like these reportable?
|
On January 16 2014 00:45 phantomlancer23 wrote:
Well the limits of ridiculousness has been surpassed the situation has become completely tragicomic,i dont know if i have to lol or to cry when i see dat vanguard pl.
Based in my playing experience i ll point what i think is the problem in this mm.
1)The calibration system is a joke there is no calibration at all even if you go well nothing changes maybe about 200-300 points because its based in the previews rigged system.I play 2700-3200 and i cant see any difference in skill level its the same thing.
2)The categories of skill level are not enough you got 4000 and you play with dendi and you got 3999 and you play with the pl vanguard,its so stupid its like you got only 2 sizes in clothes small and xlarge for all the people.
3)I cant climb up not only as support but even as mid(winner) because its the same rigged system the fifty-fifty partners you win one you lose the other because if you climb up someone ll fall and thats bad for valves customers maybe they stop playing and buy the shits.
I m stuck i cant climb up my 2700 account nor the 3100 so how is this possible in this ''flawless'' system?Maybe in 100 years i can finally reach from 3100 to 3200.
I dont believe in valve they are so useless this system is bad because they want it bad it serves other purposes that are not related with the competitive play.
There is a qq thread and the dota2 dev forums to whine in.
|
On January 16 2014 00:45 phantomlancer23 wrote:
Well the limits of ridiculousness has been surpassed the situation has become completely tragicomic,i dont know if i have to lol or to cry when i see dat vanguard pl.
Based in my playing experience i ll point what i think is the problem in this mm.
1)The calibration system is a joke there is no calibration at all even if you go well nothing changes maybe about 200-300 points because its based in the previews rigged system.I play 2700-3200 and i cant see any difference in skill level its the same thing.
2)The categories of skill level are not enough you got 4000 and you play with dendi and you got 3999 and you play with the pl vanguard,its so stupid its like you got only 2 sizes in clothes small and xlarge for all the people.
3)I cant climb up not only as support but even as mid(winner) because its the same rigged system the fifty-fifty partners you win one you lose the other because if you climb up someone ll fall and thats bad for valves customers maybe they stop playing and buy the shits.
I m stuck i cant climb up my 2700 account nor the 3100 so how is this possible in this ''flawless'' system?Maybe in 100 years i can finally reach from 3100 to 3200.
I dont believe in valve they are so useless this system is bad because they want it bad it serves other purposes that are not related with the competitive play.
Play Kwark's Lycan. Biggest perk: completely independent from your team.
There will be the occasional game where your lanes feed so hard that it's gg before your jungling is over, but in general you can quite easily carry a team of scrubs.
|
I dont know Kwarks lycan can you fill me in?I ll try it i m so desperate i m one step from zero level account again.
|
Czech Republic18921 Posts
Have you considered that you're not as good at dota as you think you are? Maybe you're at your correct level.
|
On January 16 2014 00:56 cecek wrote:
Have you considered that you're not as good at dota as you think you are? Maybe you're at your correct level.
dude, his name is a dota hero with the number 23 behind it, HE HAS TO BE NEXT ZSMJ
|
People seem to believe that going up in MMR is their birthright or something.
As if they are improving faster than everybody else at their level.
Its not SC2 you don't get free ladder points just for playing.
|
On January 16 2014 01:02 Sn0_Man wrote:
People seem to believe that going up in MMR is their birthright or something.
As if they are improving faster than everybody else at their level.
Its not SC2 you don't get free ladder points just for playing.
Arguably a reason against having this ranked thing at all. People like to see progress. They like to see that they're getting better.
An MMR system, by definition, will only show that if you're getting better faster than everyone else. You could actually be improving and yet going down in MMR because everyone is improving faster. Which leads to people being put off and posts like the guy above made and, in the end, people quitting.
Take it out and give us something else Valve...how about some way to only queue by yourself without going up against or with stacks?
...yes I'm still annoyed at the loss of solo queue. 
|
Czech Republic18921 Posts
People were whining for a visible ranking. Once they got it, they're whining because they can't justify that they're not improving. Isn't it even what Valve said? That virtually all players skill plateau and it feels shitty knowing that?
|
I haven't had issues with the lack of true solo q but I'm a dirty 4200mmr public or something.
Hell I got commends from a 4-stack that I got matched beside the other day. Didn't even realize they were stacking.
|
The laddersystem from sc2 didnt let the mob rage as shown mmr in dota2 does. The qqq thread on tl exploded after introduction of shown mmr. This shown mmr is ofcourse fine for matchmaking. It filters out any variables and most of time, u get pretty descent games. But it also increases toxicity in and outside the game. If u die 2 times early u allready know that bm is comming your way. I think blizzard did a better job on there laddersystem then valve did with this shown dota2 mmr.
The Sc2 rating mostly stimulates people to play and improve where the dota2 mmr doesnt or even worse. I think that is a topic the dota2 team should focus on. How to influence the individual gamer to play more, stay positive and try to improve themselves while still having lots of fun. In a way this dota2 mmr experience lets me appriciate the laddersystem from sc2 more. Seems like we sometimes take simple things for granted
|
On January 16 2014 01:22 cecek wrote:
People were whining for a visible ranking. Once they got it, they're whining because they can't justify that they're not improving. Isn't it even what Valve said? That virtually all players skill plateau and it feels shitty knowing that?
Pretty much, but not only that. Like I said, MMR will stay static if the average skill level is constantly increasing (which it will tend to do so unless the number of new players joining outweighs that). So in theory you could even be getting better but seeing no numerical effect from it.
Honestly the explosion in general rage and QQ and hating resulting from MMR inclusion was completely predictable. Yet people yelled for it anyway. :-\
|
On January 16 2014 01:22 cecek wrote:
People were whining for a visible ranking. Once they got it, they're whining because they can't justify that they're not improving. Isn't it even what Valve said? That virtually all players skill plateau and it feels shitty knowing that?
Yes, and shockingly people are unhappy because they are not steadily moving up to be matched with NoTail. I try to be zen about my rank and just know that it's still the same game I was having fun with, but being knocked down below wood league does bum me put some times.
But that is all me and not a problem with the system. I could just play Unranked games too.
|
I've managed to lose 6 ranked placement matches today. Also managed to get an abandon due to ISP deciding to troll me.
Needless to say, today was a "meh" day...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
