EPTRanked matchmaking coming to Dota 2 - Page 102
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Please keep the QQ to a minimum if you do not like this update. We are happy to hear your reasoning for not liking a ranked system, but no "OMG VOLVO WHY" posts. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
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SnowfaLL
Canada730 Posts
But I truly think support for climbing ladder is near impossible because its so dependant on teammates, thats why you see every single "pro" player playing mid or carry when solo q. Or at the very least, if they random a hero like Lion or Shaman or even Dazzle, they call mid and win the game from the mid position rather than a support position. It sucks because I find support the funnest role in the game, but not if you want to win games without a team. | ||
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Pseudoku
Canada1279 Posts
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On January 14 2014 14:03 SnowfaLL wrote: But I truly think support for climbing ladder is near impossible because its so dependant on teammates, thats why you see every single "pro" player playing mid or carry when solo q. Not even sure if you are serious or if this is a "troll" anymore. Carries whine about bad supports. Supports whine about bad carries. And no, not every single "pro" player are playing mid or carry rofl. I don't even know how you came to that conclusion. | ||
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etherealfall
Australia476 Posts
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
I think u should mostly judge your own effectiveness when playing the sjaman. I.e. I allways tried to kill the tier 1 tower in my own lane, sometimes even forcing the attempt in a losing lane resulting in death. When u reach level 6, look at all three lanes, which lane gives the best chance of the first tier1 towerkill, just tp there and make it happen and go to the next lane. His ultimate feels like its designed for getting some tier1 towerkills before the enemy gets even one towerkill. Only thing he needs is xp, a pushing lane and some protection when launching the wards (short range). | ||
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sperY
Serbia444 Posts
I usually play with friends who are 300-400 points ahead of me (in average) and i quite enjoy those games. I don't feel like I'm pulling my team down at all. On the other hand in my solo games i find it that usually one or two guys pull the team down drastically. I mostly play supporting roles and its quite frustrating when you play a good first 20 minutes and are wining decisively, but in the end you lose because your farmed luna cannot cast ultimate or use her BKB to save her life :/ | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
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SnowfaLL
Canada730 Posts
On January 14 2014 17:38 DrPandaPhD wrote: Not even sure if you are serious or if this is a "troll" anymore. Carries whine about bad supports. Supports whine about bad carries. And no, not every single "pro" player are playing mid or carry rofl. I don't even know how you came to that conclusion. go watch any stream of any "pro" support - EGM, Wayto, whoever you can think of.. If they are solo queuing, they call mid and play their hero mid. Or they pick carry. It's just not practical to play a traditional 4 or 5 in pub as a solo, unless you want to rely on luck of team draws. | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
but i really need to filter this thread out because reading same guys complain how the dont belong at xxxx rating is getting little old | ||
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MotherOfRunes
Germany2862 Posts
On January 14 2014 19:48 SnowfaLL wrote: go watch any stream of any "pro" support - EGM, Wayto, whoever you can think of.. If they are solo queuing, they call mid and play their hero mid. Or they pick carry. It's just not practical to play a traditional 4 or 5 in pub as a solo, unless you want to rely on luck of team draws. you are the doom of dota, a curse for every other player. you are the reason u dont find good supports that often. its people like you who never pick supports at some point because they come with their shitty logic always picking mid or carry.and if mid or carry is picked u play an offlaner without support/team items. why meka on windrunner? i can own them harder with forcestaff early, its very uneffective to help my team early! i need to carry like I SAW EGM DID IN PUB FUCK YES!! | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On January 14 2014 20:20 MotherOfRunes wrote: you are the doom of dota, a curse for every other player. you are the reason u dont find good supports that often. its people like you who never pick supports at some point because they come with their shitty logic always picking mid or carry.and if mid or carry is picked u play an offlaner without support/team items. why meka on windrunner? i can own them harder with forcestaff early, its very uneffective to help my team early! i need to carry like I SAW EGM DID IN PUB FUCK YES!! How is force not a team item? Anyway if there's one player I can't stand in this game it's the brown boots/stick range creep dying everywhere while constantly flaming cores for playing imperfectly despite their amazing warding. I much prefer the es that rushes blink maybe at the expense of vision, tries to make plays with the team and actually enjoys himself. | ||
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ReignSupreme.
Australia4123 Posts
On January 14 2014 20:20 MotherOfRunes wrote: you are the doom of dota, a curse for every other player. you are the reason u dont find good supports that often. its people like you who never pick supports at some point because they come with their shitty logic always picking mid or carry.and if mid or carry is picked u play an offlaner without support/team items. why meka on windrunner? i can own them harder with forcestaff early, its very uneffective to help my team early! i need to carry like I SAW EGM DID IN PUB FUCK YES!! Why are you being so bitchy about this, he's not even wrong. (Edit: I didn't realize that it was two seperate people replying to snowfall but point still stands). 90% of the time professional players do play a position that isn't 4 or 5 in solo queue. It has nothing to do with what people will build when they support in pub games. | ||
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Lin24
France7 Posts
On January 14 2014 19:27 sperY wrote: I find myself totally abandoning rated solo Q. I usually play with friends who are 300-400 points ahead of me (in average) and i quite enjoy those games. I don't feel like I'm pulling my team down at all. On the other hand in my solo games i find it that usually one or two guys pull the team down drastically. I mostly play supporting roles and its quite frustrating when you play a good first 20 minutes and are wining decisively, but in the end you lose because your farmed luna cannot cast ultimate or use her BKB to save her life :/ haha so true. As a 4500 MMR solo q support playing mostly all pick, it's maddening to see carries not even being able to cast BKB or right click properly. But what can i do? If i don't support then there are no support/ or the job is not done properly at all : flying chicken past 10 minute point, no wards, no sentries, no dust. I usually last pick because i don't trust my teammate at all. Of course because of that, i usually end with support but it's far better than ending with no support or a wannabe support. If i ever see another support, i usually know that i have to pick support if : The hero is Lina (Cuz i've never seen a Lina player playing support) or the player is a solo q russian (pretty biased but i rarely ever see a solo q russian doing a great support job). On January 14 2014 19:48 SnowfaLL wrote: go watch any stream of any "pro" support - EGM, Wayto, whoever you can think of.. If they are solo queuing, they call mid and play their hero mid. Or they pick carry. It's just not practical to play a traditional 4 or 5 in pub as a solo, unless you want to rely on luck of team draws. I partially disagree with you SnowfaLL on the fact that you cannot climb the ladder with support. I believe you can climb to a very decent position in the ladder but the effort in doing so is greater that if you played with a carry. Because as a support, you also have to take care of your carry baby mindset. I always consider the players i play with as 5 yo people. If you ever anger/tilt/piss them off, they WILL throw the game. You have to manage the delicate mind of your deaaaar carry (and the other players also) if you want him to play at his best till the end. That include : - If he do a huge mistake, like uber diving to T1 + T2 and get shot down, you shut up. He can't last hit? you shut up. He's always out of position? you shut up. You pinged on the mini map ennemy heroes incoming and your carry don't give a fuck and get killed? YOU SHUT UP. If you ever say something, he might take it bad and throw the game. Since, you play random solo q, it's useless to point out mistakes since you will likely never meet those monkey again. - He says it's your fault? you say "i'm sorry." or you shut up even if it's wrong. - He finally does some good thing? "gj" "nice play :DDDDDDD" "wppppp" - He ask you to buy a bullshit item? you have to buy it else, it will piss him off. But still, one benefit is that i rarely get flamed for playing bad in any game (maybe because i rarely play VERY bad in the first place). But people will never give you credit for your job. Really tiring in the end. What a carry ever do in my games? Just right click. He don't even have to look minimap (like they even did anyway...) since i will always ping right away any ennemy. So easy to be a carry, win and take all the credit, lose and flame your support. EZ LIFE i would say. | ||
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rob.au
1087 Posts
Mid is definitely the best for solo queue, although games can be hard if your team has multiple heroes that really need mid to succeed. If you pick support you can give your team superior vision and help every lane win, which in the first 20 minutes is probably the highest impact in the entire game, pretty good for solo queue. This potential is amplified if the other team doesn't have anyone playing support. A carry like anti-mage can have mixed results. On the one hand you can provide space for your team which is something that solo queue often lacks, but on the other you are pretty useless outside of this for quite a while. A semi-carry can be pretty good outside of mid since you still have the potential to show your superior farming skills and create space for your team whilst still being decent in the early game teamfights. I think overall the best strategy is either be an asshole and take mid every game or just pick what your team needs (assuming you are good at every role). If you're one of those people who think they can only play carry so you pick it every game or can only play support then yeah you are probably going to have a rough time in solo queue. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On January 14 2014 18:08 etherealfall wrote: Mid and carries are the most impactful though. Carry as a role is a derivative of the word's meaning. I wonder how the world of Dota would change if they werent called "support" and "carry" but rather something more neutral like, say, "early game dominator"/"lategame dominator" or insert words for "hero good with little farm"/"hero good with much farm". Or anything along those lines. Support and Carry just screams Unimportant and Important. | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
On January 14 2014 20:20 MotherOfRunes wrote: you are the doom of dota, a curse for every other player. you are the reason u dont find good supports that often. its people like you who never pick supports at some point because they come with their shitty logic always picking mid or carry.and if mid or carry is picked u play an offlaner without support/team items. why meka on windrunner? i can own them harder with forcestaff early, its very uneffective to help my team early! i need to carry like I SAW EGM DID IN PUB FUCK YES!! I'm a support player. I play support. It's what I like to do and what I choose to do and I'm good at it. Only Shadow Shaman, of my position 5 supports, is above 55% winrate. That said, my Luna's got a 59% winrate over 22 games, Gyro, spectre and clinkz still at 100% after 3/4 games, SF and Enchantress at 55%, Chen, Pugna and Beastmaster are all above 60% It is -easier- to carry a game with a role that is guaranteed farm and thereby has more room to be impactful. This doesn't mean support roles are less important, it just means that a good support and a shitty carry is a lost lane, whereas a shitty support and a good carry still has a chance, because the opponent actually has to capitalize on the shitty support play, whereas a good support with a shitty carry is self-defeating, because there's no cure for a carry that can't farm. Also just so you know, you're saying "people like you who never pick supports at some point cause they come with their shitty logic always picking mid or carry" to someone who literally opened with "I win slightly more than half my games as a solo q support at 4000-4200" | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
However with none of that communication present and with the prevalence of 2-1-1+jungle setups, you can only do so much as solo support. And even with duo support setups they need to be somewhat communicative on top of playing good heroes (you'll have a very hard time ganking with an abaddon/silencer support setup). But I do bet if you actually would do the hard work of constantly talking/writing to your team mates, and preferably play with two supports, I bet you could get a lot of shit done and win games even at very high levels of pubs. Carries and mids obviously arent as reliant on communication as they can get shit done alone due to their farm. | ||
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