On May 05 2014 02:09 Sermokala wrote: Thats what I've never liked about the whole situation. Everyone knows that yanukovych was corupt as hell but at the end of the day he was who the people voted for. In a real democracy he would resign and his sucessor would take over. In a real democracy thats what the people would demand. But instead We're in this weid quasi coup world where the leader of the country isn't elected by the people whos lives hes responsible for his day to day decisions.
Yes, too bad Russia didnt want the May 25th election to happen so there could be a real democracy.
Are you seriously implying that if those had happened [like they should and like they should have happened months earlier], there would be a real democracy? I would not say there is any evidence that allows to believe in this.
It would be more real than what happened in Crimea or the separatist areas. Then it would pave for further reforms supervised by the EU that would cement democracy and Ukraine would start moving out of its orbit of quasi-authoritarian corruption.
Doesn't slightly seem like Nazi for me. Western democratic countires support current Ukrainian government who support these guys. Now, any reasonable thoughts why this should be tolerated by citizens of the country?
There's a mistake in the video. They are not chanting "Sieg Heil", but rather "geroyam slava" ("героям слава"). While the subtitle is incorrect, the meaning is basically the same, as this is the chant used by Ukrainian nationalists during the genocide of Wołyń.
so the terrorists are chanting Allāhu Akbar before killing innocent people. Is it a terroristic slogan now that should be banned?
On May 05 2014 03:18 BeaSteR wrote: @ cheerio Thanks for this post that contributes a lot to this tread! Spreads a whole new light on the whole fire-situation.
I would ask for others to repost it a few times on some future pages for it not to get lost so fast.
On May 05 2014 03:23 maybenexttime wrote: @Nyxisto
Are you talking about the impeachment that did not get enough votes to go through?
Yes, I'm aware that the vote 'only' scored 73% approval, but given the fact that Yanukovych was disowned by his own party, allegedly ordered to shoot his own citizens, stole billions of dollars to enrich himself and that the Ukrainian government had 100k people standing on the Maidan I'm afraid the procedure was as orderly as it was going to get.
I'm not saying that the situation was perfect,(which is why new elections are supposed to happen in May) but the Ukrainian government was basically forced to do what they did. It is ridiculous that simply signing a trade agreement with the European Union results in a part of your country being annexed by Russia and your country driven into civil war.
On May 05 2014 02:09 Sermokala wrote: Thats what I've never liked about the whole situation. Everyone knows that yanukovych was corupt as hell but at the end of the day he was who the people voted for. In a real democracy he would resign and his sucessor would take over. In a real democracy thats what the people would demand. But instead We're in this weid quasi coup world where the leader of the country isn't elected by the people whos lives hes responsible for his day to day decisions.
Yes, too bad Russia didnt want the May 25th election to happen so there could be a real democracy.
Are you seriously implying that if those had happened [like they should and like they should have happened months earlier], there would be a real democracy? I would not say there is any evidence that allows to believe in this.
It would be more real than what happened in Crimea or the separatist areas. Then it would pave for further reforms supervised by the EU that would cement democracy and Ukraine would start moving out of its orbit of quasi-authoritarian corruption.
It would be more real, true. But i still wouldn't believe in it being any good. Simply because democracy just goes as far as to choose the next corrupted politician in manage of country. Especially in countries not used to aforementioned democracy.
On May 05 2014 02:09 Sermokala wrote: Thats what I've never liked about the whole situation. Everyone knows that yanukovych was corupt as hell but at the end of the day he was who the people voted for. In a real democracy he would resign and his sucessor would take over. In a real democracy thats what the people would demand. But instead We're in this weid quasi coup world where the leader of the country isn't elected by the people whos lives hes responsible for his day to day decisions.
Yes, too bad Russia didnt want the May 25th election to happen so there could be a real democracy.
Are you seriously implying that if those had happened [like they should and like they should have happened months earlier], there would be a real democracy? I would not say there is any evidence that allows to believe in this.
It would be more real than what happened in Crimea or the separatist areas. Then it would pave for further reforms supervised by the EU that would cement democracy and Ukraine would start moving out of its orbit of quasi-authoritarian corruption.
It would be more real, true. But i still wouldn't believe in it being any good. Simply because democracy just goes as far as to choose the next corrupted politician in manage of country. Especially in countries not used to aforementioned democracy.
Your doubts are reasonable and Ukraine very well could remain corrupt and hopeless even if Crimea/separatism/etc didn't happen. But what other options does Ukraine have? The only *hope* is to have the elections and try to move forward. Russia clearly doesn't want that.
On May 05 2014 02:09 Sermokala wrote: Thats what I've never liked about the whole situation. Everyone knows that yanukovych was corupt as hell but at the end of the day he was who the people voted for. In a real democracy he would resign and his sucessor would take over. In a real democracy thats what the people would demand. But instead We're in this weid quasi coup world where the leader of the country isn't elected by the people whos lives hes responsible for his day to day decisions.
Yes, too bad Russia didnt want the May 25th election to happen so there could be a real democracy.
Are you seriously implying that if those had happened [like they should and like they should have happened months earlier], there would be a real democracy? I would not say there is any evidence that allows to believe in this.
It would be more real than what happened in Crimea or the separatist areas. Then it would pave for further reforms supervised by the EU that would cement democracy and Ukraine would start moving out of its orbit of quasi-authoritarian corruption.
It would be more real, true. But i still wouldn't believe in it being any good. Simply because democracy just goes as far as to choose the next corrupted politician in manage of country.
Its not about perfect or hell, its about directional reforms. Slovakia was ruled by a corrupt authoritarian in the 1990s too, now its richer than Russia. Croatia had literally a war criminal running it, now it has a functioning democracy. Greece and Spain were military dictatorships 4-5 years before joining the EU, now there is no threat to the end of democracy. Democracy doesnt mean the end of corruption or economic problems, it just means that its easier to fight corruption and easier to replace leaders the people dont believe in.
On May 05 2014 03:14 Sub40APM wrote: Every poll that has been run in Ukraine for presidential elections has shown Svoboda leader polling at between 1% and 3.5% of the popular vote
You're naive as a child and missed the point once again. It's not about having a strong concern that Right Sector leader might become a president, or supporting the separatists who want to join to Russia. It's about having all sort of nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country with the support of temporary government, which, by the way, have been supported by the Western leaders through the whole crisis. Don't see the deal yet?
Imagine that the intellectual majority of Germany and USA, for examply, would suddenly find out that their goverment decided to take neo-nazis's side in a Ukranian civil war in order to punish Russia for their agression. Will such deal be justified in people's eyes? Hell no.
On May 05 2014 03:14 Sub40APM wrote: Every poll that has been run in Ukraine for presidential elections has shown Svoboda leader polling at between 1% and 3.5% of the popular vote
You're naive as a child and miss the point once again. It's not about having a strong concern that Right Sector leader might become a president, or supporting the separatists who want to join to Russia. It's about having all sort of nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country with the support of temporary government, which, by the way, have been supported by the Western leaders through the whole crisis. Don't see the deal yet?
If anyone here has been nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country its the pro-Russian side of the conflict, not the other way around.
On May 05 2014 03:14 Sub40APM wrote: Every poll that has been run in Ukraine for presidential elections has shown Svoboda leader polling at between 1% and 3.5% of the popular vote
You're naive as a child and miss the point once again. It's not about having a strong concern that Right Sector leader might become a president, or supporting the separatists who want to join to Russia. It's about having all sort of nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country with the support of temporary government, which, by the way, have been supported by the Western leaders through the whole crisis. Don't see the deal yet?
If anyone here has been nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country its the pro-Russian side of the conflict, not the other way around.
If you can't show me the video of pro-Russians violently attacking their unarmed enemies to death and chanting Nazi's chores, your words mean jack.
On May 05 2014 03:14 Sub40APM wrote: Every poll that has been run in Ukraine for presidential elections has shown Svoboda leader polling at between 1% and 3.5% of the popular vote
You're naive as a child and miss the point once again. It's not about having a strong concern that Right Sector leader might become a president, or supporting the separatists who want to join to Russia. It's about having all sort of nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country with the support of temporary government, which, by the way, have been supported by the Western leaders through the whole crisis. Don't see the deal yet?
If anyone here has been nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country its the pro-Russian side of the conflict, not the other way around.
If you can't show me the video of pro-Russians violently attacking their unarmed enemies to death and chanting Nazi's chores, your words mean jack.
On May 05 2014 03:14 Sub40APM wrote: Every poll that has been run in Ukraine for presidential elections has shown Svoboda leader polling at between 1% and 3.5% of the popular vote
You're naive as a child and miss the point once again. It's not about having a strong concern that Right Sector leader might become a president, or supporting the separatists who want to join to Russia. It's about having all sort of nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country with the support of temporary government, which, by the way, have been supported by the Western leaders through the whole crisis. Don't see the deal yet?
If anyone here has been nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country its the pro-Russian side of the conflict, not the other way around.
If you can't show me the video of pro-Russians violently attacking their unarmed enemies to death and chanting Nazi's chores, your words mean jack.
On May 05 2014 03:14 Sub40APM wrote: Every poll that has been run in Ukraine for presidential elections has shown Svoboda leader polling at between 1% and 3.5% of the popular vote
You're naive as a child and miss the point once again. It's not about having a strong concern that Right Sector leader might become a president, or supporting the separatists who want to join to Russia. It's about having all sort of nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country with the support of temporary government, which, by the way, have been supported by the Western leaders through the whole crisis. Don't see the deal yet?
If anyone here has been nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country its the pro-Russian side of the conflict, not the other way around.
If you can't show me the video of pro-Russians violently attacking their unarmed enemies to death and chanting Nazi's chores, your words mean jack.
13th of march events http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26569892 As a result pro-Ukrainianians got encircled and beat up. One person died because of knife stab. They were chanting "Russia, Russia". Is that "nationalist scum ravaging terror" enough? Edit: more footage
On May 05 2014 03:14 Sub40APM wrote: Every poll that has been run in Ukraine for presidential elections has shown Svoboda leader polling at between 1% and 3.5% of the popular vote
You're naive as a child and miss the point once again. It's not about having a strong concern that Right Sector leader might become a president, or supporting the separatists who want to join to Russia. It's about having all sort of nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country with the support of temporary government, which, by the way, have been supported by the Western leaders through the whole crisis. Don't see the deal yet?
If anyone here has been nationalist scum ravaging terror all over the country its the pro-Russian side of the conflict, not the other way around.
If you can't show me the video of pro-Russians violently attacking their unarmed enemies to death and chanting Nazi's chores, your words mean jack.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26569892 As a result pro-Ukrainianians got encircled and beat up. One person died because of knife stab. They were chanting "Russia, Russia". Is that "nationalist scum ravaging terror" enough?
Have you bothered to watch the video I posted? >typical street brawl >ravaging terror all over the country Not even close.
that's in khrakov, same city were an antimaidan and a passerby were shot by maidans.
maidan killings 2 - 1 antimaidan killings.
btw cheerio, you never responded to palemans allegations that you were a banderite, after you earlier told him he would 'learn much' if he read bandera's wiki-page. care to elaborate what you meant? maybe i just missed it.
EPT
