EPTP.S. At the end there's a table of recent election result of far-right parties in various countries. They omitted Estonia (because they couldn't be bothered to look up all countries?!) so I can add the figures myself. In 2013, EKRE received 8000 votes out of roughly half a million, giving them a whopping 0.02 % of the vote tally. Roughly 1000 more people voted for them than they have members (i.e., even spouses and children didn't vote for them...).
Ukraine Crisis - Page 388
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
P.S. At the end there's a table of recent election result of far-right parties in various countries. They omitted Estonia (because they couldn't be bothered to look up all countries?!) so I can add the figures myself. In 2013, EKRE received 8000 votes out of roughly half a million, giving them a whopping 0.02 % of the vote tally. Roughly 1000 more people voted for them than they have members (i.e., even spouses and children didn't vote for them...). | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 31 2014 18:50 PaleMan wrote: how can ppl not relate EU with some "sort of homosexual masonry" if there are gay marriages etc.? It's remarkable that you don't realize how wrong that statement sounds. by the way it is very interesting problem Russia gets a lot of critic for its "anti-gay propaganda for children" law while Qatar considers gay intercourse as crime and you can be punished for this (from 7 years in prison to death sentence) by the way, there is no democracy in Qatar too - it's an absolute monarchy but nobody cares and you know why? because Qatar is long time USA ally Yes, Qatar gets off easy because it's a US ally. But Russia is getting exactly what it deserves, not worse. BTW, the penalty for homosexual acts is betweeen 1 and 5 years imprisonment, not 7 years or more. Which is absolutely disgusting and Qatar should never have gotten the World Cup. | ||
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
and if you are small and weak you must ally with big and strong and you can do whatever you want i now understand what Putin plan is: to make Russia stronger and bigger, so we can do anything we want just like USA well well well sounds like a good plan to me | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 31 2014 19:17 PaleMan wrote: ah I see, so basically you must be strong and big, so you can do whatever you want, right? and if you are small and weak you must ally with big and strong and you can do whatever you want i now understand what Putin plan is: to make Russia stronger and bigger, so we can do anything we want just like USA well well well sounds like a good plan to me Unfortunately yes, in practice, although if you piss off too many weaker nations you might end up in trouble. The US has been quite good at not pissing off too many people too much at the same time. I hate to break it to you but Russia will never be big and strong again. That shipped has sailed. | ||
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
On March 31 2014 19:25 hypercube wrote: I hate to break it to you but Russia will never be big and strong again. That shipped has sailed. sorry to dissapoint you, but Russia already big and strong looky look - Russia took Crimea aaaaaand... got away with it imagine what will happen with some other country (not counting USA) if they tried to do this trick | ||
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SF-Fork
Russian Federation1401 Posts
On March 31 2014 19:02 PaleMan wrote: i cannot find a link between your initial question and line about "fearing a gay power-mongering conspiracy" nobody fears gays most of the ppl think gay-marriages are weird so they don't want this weird thing to happen in their country, but since EU considers its very important - ppl don't want to join EU "power-mongering conspiracy" is my definition of masonry, something you affirmed in your previous post. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 31 2014 19:30 PaleMan wrote: sorry to dissapoint you, but Russia already big and strong looky look - Russia took Crimea aaaaaand... got away with it imagine what will happen with some other country (not counting USA) if they tried to do this trick Did it? I think it's too early to say. In any case the bigger picture is that Russia is struggling to keep any influence outside Russian speaking territories and some central asian republics. I understand the rush of challenging the #1 to prove that you are just as strong as they are. But in the long term this is unsustainable. When the euphoria of victory wears off Russians will realize this, just as Britain and France realized when their time ended. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On March 31 2014 19:30 PaleMan wrote: sorry to dissapoint you, but Russia already big and strong looky look - Russia took Crimea aaaaaand... got away with it imagine what will happen with some other country (not counting USA) if they tried to do this trick So stronk that your economy already is wobbling, after what, a couple of weeks of crisis - even without real sanctions. Sounds extremely strong to me. Get back in your cave, it's people living in the past (like you) who make this world a shitty place. | ||
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
On March 31 2014 20:49 m4ini wrote: So stronk that your economy already is wobbling, after what, a couple of weeks of crisis - even without real sanctions. oh really? i think you mixed up your dreams with reality Sounds extremely strong to me. Get back in your cave, it's people living in the past (like you) who make this world a shitty place. sounds like you a little bit disappointed i can understand you - somebody does his thing and you can't do anything about it | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On March 31 2014 20:55 PaleMan wrote: oh really? i think you mixed up your dreams with reality Rich from someone like you. oO sounds like you a little bit disappointed i can understand you - somebody does his thing and you can't do anything about it I don't need to. See, in civilized countries, we tend to have at least to some degree capable medias. I know, someone who solely relies on rt.com doesn't understand this, but i, in your skin, would try other (even russian) medias. Russian officials even talk about an "economical crisis". I know, hard to grasp for someone whos view is as narrow as "we has tanks, so we mighty", but in the end, you kinda only look stupid. PS: i don't want Ukraine in the EU, so why would i be disappointed. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
press freedom index seems like a better indicator than your cases don't you think? nope. you just wish it was so you can continue putting your fingers in your ears and sticking out your tongue. the case you initially were making was that the us was a good example for protecting journos (relative to germany), the index shows this is not true. nope. case i clearly made was that you are conflating freedom of the press and freedom of speech/expression and that freedom of speech/expression along with freedom of the press is quite robust in the USA as anyone can see by looking at what is published every day regardless of obama administration's authoritarianism. case i made was not on your self-serving terms limiting the context. since then you shifted your case to 'thanks obama', the index again and the nsa spying on dissenting journos way before obama (that index would prolly take a deep dive if you adjusted for the fact) shows this is not the case (though his persecution of whistleblowers hasn't helped). now you're attacking my perception of the us, which you are misconstruing (can't blame you). nope. spent a whole paragraph listing expressions of free speech by non-journalists. that should have indicated that i wasn't agreeing to your self-serving limitations on the context. maybe it was better back in the day but hardly relevant. how someone could misunderstand or misrepresent what was written to such a degree is incredible. you can say "hmm no press index all that matters" until the cows come doesn't change things. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
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Zealos
United Kingdom3576 Posts
On March 31 2014 19:25 hypercube wrote: Unfortunately yes, in practice, although if you piss off too many weaker nations you might end up in trouble. The US has been quite good at not pissing off too many people too much at the same time. I hate to break it to you but Russia will never be big and strong again. That shipped has sailed. Sailed. Then it grew wings and flew off into the sunset. Russia was only strong for a period when it chose to forgo and spending on infrastructure in order to fund an oversized military and nuclear arsenal. It will become more and more irrelevant over time. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
The myth of a No- #NATO enlargement pledge to #Russia -- 2009 article sets record straight http://t.co/bdnzCEPZuU 3:12 PM Mar 31st via HootSuite http://twitter.com/NATOdsg/status/450606638622572544 P. S. Read the pdf, not just the summary | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On March 31 2014 21:51 nunez wrote: the negative impact of press freedom index is balanced by a relative advantage in free speech enjoyed by non-journalists and thus you are in the clear for using the us as a shining example. you establish this by posting a whole paragraph of examples of free-speech. context of this being russki legislation aimed at squelching dissent. did i parse it correctly? agree with the context? did i say shining example no i did not  so why would you say that, you were actually the one to first use it in this talk about freedoms of expression of the US and you're probably the only one to use that exact term in this thread so... i never said that the freedom of speech in the US means by itself that freedom of the press is just fine, i've acknowledged all along that for important justifiably respected journalists on important topics the current government has been more and more authoritarian and wrong in how it treats the press. and no i don't agree with the context, context was and is freedom of expression not just the press and the robustness of press freedom in the US. after the collapse of the gentlemen's agreements era and the return of muckraking the adversarial nature of the press and government has gotten closer to historical levels but to get some perspective i would suggest researching press freedom in the civil war (cliff notes: mobs and the government could and did shut down newspapers but they were almost always swiftly reopened and both those for and against the war savaged each other in the northern press regularly) or during woodrow wilson's administration (cliff notes: bad time for basic freedoms in america particularly free speech in general and freedom of the press as well). i gave a bunch of examples that you hand-waved and are still hand-waving because of an appeal to authority namely reporters without borders. you're also arguing against things people didn't say or you said that now you are suggesting they said and also insisting that counterexamples be damned. reporters without borders said US press freedom 46th in the world so... but you aren't just saying that, which is a lamentable ranking, you're implying through derision that US press freedom is significantly below standards when the whole picture doesn't support such an implication. | ||
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
On March 31 2014 21:01 m4ini wrote: Rich from someone like you. oO I don't need to. See, in civilized countries, we tend to have at least to some degree capable medias. I know, someone who solely relies on rt.com doesn't understand this, but i, in your skin, would try other (even russian) medias. Russian officials even talk about an "economical crisis". I know, hard to grasp for someone whos view is as narrow as "we has tanks, so we mighty", but in the end, you kinda only look stupid. PS: i don't want Ukraine in the EU, so why would i be disappointed. oh we have crisis since the end of 2012 - i cannot see how it is connected to Crimea situation | ||
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LaughingTulkas
United States1107 Posts
On March 31 2014 20:55 PaleMan wrote: oh really? i think you mixed up your dreams with reality sounds like you a little bit disappointed i can understand you - somebody does his thing and you can't do anything about it I wouldn't go so far as to say "can't". If the USA fought a war with Russia the results would be pretty one-sided. Lets say "won't do anything about it except talk and perhaps some sanctions that won't affect much" and then we can all agree. I do think it's interesting that after a while you stop trying to justify the actions in Crimea as "justified" or "correct" and admit that it's simply the case of Russia taking what it wants because it deserves it and because it wants to be big and strong. On the whole, I think forced annexation of territory, including the real, actual people who live there, is not the behavior of a civilized country. | ||
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
On March 31 2014 23:04 LaughingTulkas wrote: I wouldn't go so far as to say "can't". If the USA fought a war with Russia the results would be pretty one-sided. Lets say "won't do anything about it except talk and perhaps some sanctions that won't affect much" and then we can all agree. i like patriotic ppl a lot, so i'm sorry to disappoint you if we speak about non-nuclear conflict - you are right, USA doesn't stand a chance US army is very weak, your troops are struggling to defeat tribes in Afganistan or Iraq while having air superiority, better equipment etc. if we are talking about nuclear conflict - it's a draw, both countries will be nullified I do think it's interesting that after a while you stop trying to justify the actions in Crimea as "justified" or "correct" and admit that it's simply the case of Russia taking what it wants because it deserves it and because it wants to be big and strong. On the whole, I think forced annexation of territory, including the real, actual people who live there, is not the behavior of a civilized country. actions were perfectly correct, Crimea asked for help and we come and peacfully took it over moreover "actual people who live there" voted for joining Russia | ||
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