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Ukraine Crisis - Page 386

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There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated.

New policy, please read before posting:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21393711
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
March 30 2014 09:56 GMT
#7701




Also, lol:



And why people shouldn't trust any remaining Russian media outlets:
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6336 Posts
March 30 2014 11:32 GMT
#7702
Really? Anonymous International? Looking at the 'leaked file', its a poorly put together word document from a dubious source. If you believe this then you must surely believe Anonymous Ukraine's leaks

http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_02_28/Anonymous-operations-expose-Ukrainian-Bandera-nazis-9458/
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
March 30 2014 12:00 GMT
#7703
New photographs of the snipers of Maidan:


Exclusive: Photographs Expose Russian-Trained Killers in Kiev

Most of the photographs accompanying this article were taken on February 20, and they appear to reveal the truth about who carried out the shootings in Independence Square on that day. The pictures shared exclusively with The Daily Beast show members of a crack anti-terrorist unit known as the Alfa Team in the courtyard of the headquarters of Ukraine’s feared state security service, the SBU, preparing themselves for battle. The agency’s seven-story headquarters occupies an entire city block and is just three streets from the Maidan.

The SBU is the successor intelligence agency to the Ukrainian branch of the Soviet-era KGB and it still maintains exceptionally close ties to Moscow. For many years “leading SBU functionaries came from the KGB,” says Boris Volodarsky, a former Russian military intelligence officer and author of the book The KGB’s Poison Factory. He says Russia’s intelligence service, now known as the FSB, has made sure over the years to maintain deep penetration of its Ukrainian counterpart and to ensure that its “agents and associates remain in place.” That was easily done during thepresidency of the pro-Russian Yanukovych.

A U.S. intelligence source says that “since the break-up of the Soviet Union, Western security services have considered Kiev to be FSB territory.” Instructors from Russian Special Forces have trained Alfa units.

...

From early morning until midday on February 20 Alfa Team members come and go in the courtyard of the SBU’s national headquarters as firing echoes three blocks away in the charnel house of the Maidan. No afternoon pictures of the courtyard were taken by the sources, who are ordinary Ukrainians and not connected with any government authority either in Ukraine or overseas. They filmed the material themselves and their camera numbers match the metadata on the supplied digital pictures and video footage.
Source.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
sekritzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
1515 Posts
March 30 2014 14:59 GMT
#7704
Well it looks like Russia has had enough of the west's manipulation throughout the past 25 years to further extend their sphere of influence through missile shields and pressing nations to join NATO. This is going to be a new chapter in the way Russia conducts it's foreign policy and it looks like it will rely on real politik from now on. This is a copy/paste from zerohedge on highlights from Russia's foreign minister.


Some notable highlights by Lavrov from the interview conducted with Rossiya 24:

“Isolation” is a term invented by our Western partners who act with nostalgic neo-imperial ambitions in mind. The instant something isn’t to their liking they draw out this sanctions stick. The times when such strategy could be employed are long gone.... I’m surprised at how obsessively they’re trying to – create rather than find – proof of Russia’s isolation.
China is a very close partner of Russia. In our joint documents our relations are defined as comprehensive strategic partnership of cooperation. All of China’s actions reaffirm its commitment to the principles we agreed on. If, as you say, the Americans did try to convince China to review its economic agreements with Russia on the highest level, it’s an off-the-scale naïve or brazen attitude. I would even say that not understanding the essence of Chinese politics and mentality is just inexcusable for the officials in charge of such negotiations.

At the very beginning China said that it takes into consideration the combination of historical and political factors. China strongly opposed using non-diplomatic measures and threats of sanctions to resolve this problem. Our contacts with our Chinese partners show that they not only understand Russia’s rightful interests in this case, but are also hand-in-hand with us in the understanding of the initial causes of the current crisis in Ukraine. There is no doubt about it.
Over a month ago I raised the issue of the Right Sector and the necessity to dissociate from the radical forces with our Western partners. I asked them a very simple question: “If you agree that we need to defuse the situation, why won’t you publicly say what the Right Sector really is?” Same to a degree goes for the Svoboda party, whose platform references The Declaration of June 30, 1941, which expressed support of Nazi Germany and its efforts to establish a new world order. According to the party’s charter, it’s still committed to this principle. US Secretary of State John Kerry told me that after close scrutiny they concluded that the Right Sector was trying to become a political movement. The subtext was that it’s a good thing, and Svoboda is moving towards [the] mainstream. That’s a quote.
The punchline:

It is wrong for NATO members to be protected with indivisible security and for everybody else to be treated as second-rate nations, so NATO can act as a magnet to attract new members and keep pushing the dividing line further to the east.
We were promised that NATO would not bring its military infrastructure closer to our borders – and we were cheated. We were promised there would be no military installations on the territory of the new NATO members. At first, we just listened to those promises and believed them. Then we started putting them on paper as political obligations, and serious people, Western leaders, signed those documents. But when we asked them how come those political obligations were ignored and whether we can make them legally binding, they told us, “No, political obligations are enough, and anyway, don’t worry, whatever we do is not against you.”

Eastern Partnership – as well as NATO expansion – was simply an instrument used to quickly take control over geopolitical territory. The EU was ready to push this project through at any cost. It completely ignored legitimate economic interests of both Ukraine’s neighbors, like Russia and other countries, and even the nations that were part of this program. There have been many studies on this issue. No wonder even Yatsenyuk says that Ukraine needs to take a closer look at the economic section of this agreement.


And the next steps in terms of what Russia sees an ongoing response to NATO incursion:

The same will happen with Moldova. They are doing their best to sign a similar agreement with Moldova this summer, before the upcoming election. And this agreement they intend to sign with Moldova – it completely ignores the issue of Transnistria. It ignores the 1997 agreement between Chisinau and Tiraspol which entitled Transnistria to international trade. It ignores what is happening with Transnistria today: Chisinau and the new Ukrainian authorities have basically blockaded the territory. But our European partners keep mum about that. In fact, the European Union and, I think, the United States approve of this policy.


We want to talk to them very seriously about that, because they are escalating tensions over Transnistria, almost claiming that it will be next. This is outrageous, provocative rhetoric. Actually, they want to create unbearable conditions for Tiraspol in violation, I repeat, of the agreements which entitled Transnistrians to certain travel, transit and trade rights. This is outrageous. They never learn. Once again, they seek to create a sore point in our relations
.
sekritzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
1515 Posts
March 30 2014 15:03 GMT
#7705
On March 30 2014 18:56 Ghanburighan wrote:

And why people shouldn't trust any remaining Russian media outlets:
https://twitter.com/IlvesToomas/status/450031653012779009

Not that I'm defending Russian media, but American media is just as bad. CNN, fox, abc, nbc. Most of the time they are simply the pentagons machine.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6263 Posts
March 30 2014 15:30 GMT
#7706
It's funny how he's saying they're very close with China while they don't even support them publicly.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
March 30 2014 15:51 GMT
#7707
On March 31 2014 00:03 sekritzzz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2014 18:56 Ghanburighan wrote:

And why people shouldn't trust any remaining Russian media outlets:
https://twitter.com/IlvesToomas/status/450031653012779009

Not that I'm defending Russian media, but American media is just as bad. CNN, fox, abc, nbc. Most of the time they are simply the pentagons machine.

no they're not. they're privately owned and can publish whatever they want.
sgtnoobkilla
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia249 Posts
March 30 2014 16:47 GMT
#7708
On March 31 2014 00:03 sekritzzz wrote:
Not that I'm defending Russian media, but American media is just as bad. CNN, fox, abc, nbc. Most of the time they are simply the pentagons machine.

It's the other way around actually:
"We Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us, and now we're discovering that we're working for Fox."

And in other news, the Kremlin sure is trying really hard to convince everyone that they won't be cutting up Ukraine any more:
UN chief: Putin promised no new moves in Ukraine
UNITED NATIONS (AP) -- Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said Friday that Russian President Vladimir Putin assured him he had no intention of making another military move into Ukraine following the annexation of Crimea.

Russia's UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin echoed the UN chief, saying Putin made clear in a March 18 statement that there was not going to be any new Russian move into Ukraine. He accused unnamed countries of "trying to artificially whip up the atmosphere of international crisis."

.....

"Some parties were trying to whip up tension - Russian aggression is imminent, or something like that, throwing wild assessments of the presence of our troops allegedly on the border with Ukraine," Churkin said.

"Our forces in Russia are undergoing their usual routine, staying in their barracks or doing some training," he said. "But there is no worry of any Russian initiative against Ukraine."

Churkin said there have been four inspections along the Russia-Ukraine border by about a dozen countries this month - including one by the United States, Germany and Ukraine - "and none of them told us they saw anything particularly disconcerting."

He said Putin told Russia's defense minister on Friday to return Ukraine's military hardware from Crimea, adding "this is not something you do if you plan anything dramatic against this country."

Ban said during his visits to Moscow and Kiev on March 20-21 "emotions were running high ... and tensions have been very highly charged." He said he urged leaders in both countries to de-escalate the situation and engage in direct talks, and called on Ukraine's leaders to address domestic concerns that Russia has.

But the secretary-general said "President Putin ... told me that he had no intention to make any military move."

Churkin said the effort to whip up an international crisis "is not helpful at all." What all parties need to do is help the Ukrainians get out of the crisis in the country, he said.

Churkin said Russia has spelled out its views of what needs to be done to "our international colleagues" and the Ukrainians.

"The armed groups must be disarmed. The radicals must be reined in, and most importantly there must be (a) constitutional process ... and the results of a constitutional assembly must be put to a referendum," Churkin said. Then, there will be a new constitution "where all the regions of the country will be comfortable about where they are, about their rights, and about where their country is going.

Russia has pushed strongly for federalizing Ukraine - giving its regions more autonomy - but Ukraine's interim authorities in Kiev have rejected such a move.

.....

"There is no political leader in sight who might be able to unite the country," he said. "All the politicians one can hear about are extremely divisive for the Ukrainian society."

Churkin said Russia is being urged to engage in dialogue and is ready to talk if there's a response to its views of what must be done.

The Ukrainians say they can't hold a constitutional assembly now because there's no one to organize it, so Churkin proposed that the international community help. And he reiterated Russia's call for the establishment of an international contact group that could take on this role.

Source
Don't play with your food unless it plays with you first.
Geisterkarle
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Germany3257 Posts
March 30 2014 16:52 GMT
#7709
That doesn't make a media not biased!
Could we just agree that "both sides" try to use their media to support their cause and "bash" anything the others are saying? Because THAT is happening!

Aside from that Russia is telling - again and again - what they want: Ukraine block-free / not added to the NATO! Maybe finally they agree so that all heads will cool down!
There can only be one Geisterkarle
Acertos
Profile Joined February 2012
France852 Posts
March 30 2014 17:07 GMT
#7710
On March 31 2014 01:52 Geisterkarle wrote:
That doesn't make a media not biased!
Could we just agree that "both sides" try to use their media to support their cause and "bash" anything the others are saying? Because THAT is happening!

Aside from that Russia is telling - again and again - what they want: Ukraine block-free / not added to the NATO! Maybe finally they agree so that all heads will cool down!

No we can't agree about that, Medias in the West aren't directly controlled by the governments and aren't bashing other countries for nothing. They have their own views on everything and these views can correspond to the country's views. In Russia, it's complete bullshit served on every media and even spilling into our own news network.

And regarding the post above yours, I'm for even stronger sanctions now. Russia isn't backing off and staying on their retarded positions. I hope sincerely hope that the EU and the US, especially the EU will take more drastic action. Russia can't get away with only an economic loss, Putin fucked up a country just because it didn't to stay in his sphere of influence.

It's history being made here and idk wtf this Russian ambassador is saying, Russia has no allies, just economical partners and minions. I hope someone can stop Putin's madness be it from the interior or the exterior.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 30 2014 17:07 GMT
#7711
That media tend to all be biased is not at issue; the issue is the degree of bias/control. The western ones have much more independence than the Russian ones. That doesn't mean they can't end up saying the same thing, but it does mean they're much more able to.

Heads cooling down is nice, but the best way to cool things down is for Russia to stop being aggressive and illegally invading places.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
March 30 2014 18:02 GMT
#7712
On March 30 2014 23:59 sekritzzz wrote:
Well it looks like Russia has had enough of the west's manipulation throughout the past 25 years to further extend their sphere of influence through missile shields and pressing nations to join NATO. This is going to be a new chapter in the way Russia conducts it's foreign policy and it looks like it will rely on real politik from now on. This is a copy/paste from zerohedge on highlights from Russia's foreign minister.

Show nested quote +

Some notable highlights by Lavrov from the interview conducted with Rossiya 24:

“Isolation” is a term invented by our Western partners who act with nostalgic neo-imperial ambitions in mind. The instant something isn’t to their liking they draw out this sanctions stick. The times when such strategy could be employed are long gone.... I’m surprised at how obsessively they’re trying to – create rather than find – proof of Russia’s isolation.
China is a very close partner of Russia. In our joint documents our relations are defined as comprehensive strategic partnership of cooperation. All of China’s actions reaffirm its commitment to the principles we agreed on. If, as you say, the Americans did try to convince China to review its economic agreements with Russia on the highest level, it’s an off-the-scale naïve or brazen attitude. I would even say that not understanding the essence of Chinese politics and mentality is just inexcusable for the officials in charge of such negotiations.

At the very beginning China said that it takes into consideration the combination of historical and political factors. China strongly opposed using non-diplomatic measures and threats of sanctions to resolve this problem. Our contacts with our Chinese partners show that they not only understand Russia’s rightful interests in this case, but are also hand-in-hand with us in the understanding of the initial causes of the current crisis in Ukraine. There is no doubt about it.
Over a month ago I raised the issue of the Right Sector and the necessity to dissociate from the radical forces with our Western partners. I asked them a very simple question: “If you agree that we need to defuse the situation, why won’t you publicly say what the Right Sector really is?” Same to a degree goes for the Svoboda party, whose platform references The Declaration of June 30, 1941, which expressed support of Nazi Germany and its efforts to establish a new world order. According to the party’s charter, it’s still committed to this principle. US Secretary of State John Kerry told me that after close scrutiny they concluded that the Right Sector was trying to become a political movement. The subtext was that it’s a good thing, and Svoboda is moving towards [the] mainstream. That’s a quote.
The punchline:

It is wrong for NATO members to be protected with indivisible security and for everybody else to be treated as second-rate nations, so NATO can act as a magnet to attract new members and keep pushing the dividing line further to the east.
We were promised that NATO would not bring its military infrastructure closer to our borders – and we were cheated. We were promised there would be no military installations on the territory of the new NATO members. At first, we just listened to those promises and believed them. Then we started putting them on paper as political obligations, and serious people, Western leaders, signed those documents. But when we asked them how come those political obligations were ignored and whether we can make them legally binding, they told us, “No, political obligations are enough, and anyway, don’t worry, whatever we do is not against you.”

Eastern Partnership – as well as NATO expansion – was simply an instrument used to quickly take control over geopolitical territory. The EU was ready to push this project through at any cost. It completely ignored legitimate economic interests of both Ukraine’s neighbors, like Russia and other countries, and even the nations that were part of this program. There have been many studies on this issue. No wonder even Yatsenyuk says that Ukraine needs to take a closer look at the economic section of this agreement.


And the next steps in terms of what Russia sees an ongoing response to NATO incursion:

The same will happen with Moldova. They are doing their best to sign a similar agreement with Moldova this summer, before the upcoming election. And this agreement they intend to sign with Moldova – it completely ignores the issue of Transnistria. It ignores the 1997 agreement between Chisinau and Tiraspol which entitled Transnistria to international trade. It ignores what is happening with Transnistria today: Chisinau and the new Ukrainian authorities have basically blockaded the territory. But our European partners keep mum about that. In fact, the European Union and, I think, the United States approve of this policy.


We want to talk to them very seriously about that, because they are escalating tensions over Transnistria, almost claiming that it will be next. This is outrageous, provocative rhetoric. Actually, they want to create unbearable conditions for Tiraspol in violation, I repeat, of the agreements which entitled Transnistrians to certain travel, transit and trade rights. This is outrageous. They never learn. Once again, they seek to create a sore point in our relations
.

"Whats ours is ours but whats theirs is negotiable!"
The fact that people still think the West has "pressured" anyone to join NATO is pretty laughable.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-30 18:19:46
March 30 2014 18:15 GMT
#7713
On March 31 2014 03:02 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2014 23:59 sekritzzz wrote:
Well it looks like Russia has had enough of the west's manipulation throughout the past 25 years to further extend their sphere of influence through missile shields and pressing nations to join NATO. This is going to be a new chapter in the way Russia conducts it's foreign policy and it looks like it will rely on real politik from now on. This is a copy/paste from zerohedge on highlights from Russia's foreign minister.


Some notable highlights by Lavrov from the interview conducted with Rossiya 24:

“Isolation” is a term invented by our Western partners who act with nostalgic neo-imperial ambitions in mind. The instant something isn’t to their liking they draw out this sanctions stick. The times when such strategy could be employed are long gone.... I’m surprised at how obsessively they’re trying to – create rather than find – proof of Russia’s isolation.
China is a very close partner of Russia. In our joint documents our relations are defined as comprehensive strategic partnership of cooperation. All of China’s actions reaffirm its commitment to the principles we agreed on. If, as you say, the Americans did try to convince China to review its economic agreements with Russia on the highest level, it’s an off-the-scale naïve or brazen attitude. I would even say that not understanding the essence of Chinese politics and mentality is just inexcusable for the officials in charge of such negotiations.

At the very beginning China said that it takes into consideration the combination of historical and political factors. China strongly opposed using non-diplomatic measures and threats of sanctions to resolve this problem. Our contacts with our Chinese partners show that they not only understand Russia’s rightful interests in this case, but are also hand-in-hand with us in the understanding of the initial causes of the current crisis in Ukraine. There is no doubt about it.
Over a month ago I raised the issue of the Right Sector and the necessity to dissociate from the radical forces with our Western partners. I asked them a very simple question: “If you agree that we need to defuse the situation, why won’t you publicly say what the Right Sector really is?” Same to a degree goes for the Svoboda party, whose platform references The Declaration of June 30, 1941, which expressed support of Nazi Germany and its efforts to establish a new world order. According to the party’s charter, it’s still committed to this principle. US Secretary of State John Kerry told me that after close scrutiny they concluded that the Right Sector was trying to become a political movement. The subtext was that it’s a good thing, and Svoboda is moving towards [the] mainstream. That’s a quote.
The punchline:

It is wrong for NATO members to be protected with indivisible security and for everybody else to be treated as second-rate nations, so NATO can act as a magnet to attract new members and keep pushing the dividing line further to the east.
We were promised that NATO would not bring its military infrastructure closer to our borders – and we were cheated. We were promised there would be no military installations on the territory of the new NATO members. At first, we just listened to those promises and believed them. Then we started putting them on paper as political obligations, and serious people, Western leaders, signed those documents. But when we asked them how come those political obligations were ignored and whether we can make them legally binding, they told us, “No, political obligations are enough, and anyway, don’t worry, whatever we do is not against you.”

Eastern Partnership – as well as NATO expansion – was simply an instrument used to quickly take control over geopolitical territory. The EU was ready to push this project through at any cost. It completely ignored legitimate economic interests of both Ukraine’s neighbors, like Russia and other countries, and even the nations that were part of this program. There have been many studies on this issue. No wonder even Yatsenyuk says that Ukraine needs to take a closer look at the economic section of this agreement.


And the next steps in terms of what Russia sees an ongoing response to NATO incursion:

The same will happen with Moldova. They are doing their best to sign a similar agreement with Moldova this summer, before the upcoming election. And this agreement they intend to sign with Moldova – it completely ignores the issue of Transnistria. It ignores the 1997 agreement between Chisinau and Tiraspol which entitled Transnistria to international trade. It ignores what is happening with Transnistria today: Chisinau and the new Ukrainian authorities have basically blockaded the territory. But our European partners keep mum about that. In fact, the European Union and, I think, the United States approve of this policy.


We want to talk to them very seriously about that, because they are escalating tensions over Transnistria, almost claiming that it will be next. This is outrageous, provocative rhetoric. Actually, they want to create unbearable conditions for Tiraspol in violation, I repeat, of the agreements which entitled Transnistrians to certain travel, transit and trade rights. This is outrageous. They never learn. Once again, they seek to create a sore point in our relations
.

"Whats ours is ours but whats theirs is negotiable!"
The fact that people still think the West has "pressured" anyone to join NATO is pretty laughable.

lol yes. Actually Germany and many other European countries were trying to slow the NATO membership of the Baltic states down a little. They wanted to join because they just became sovereign nations and intended to stay that way. And they can actually join whatever alliance they want because they're free countries now. It is beyond my imagination how Russia can seriously argue independent nations doing what they want caused Russia to invade Ukraine.
Could we just agree that "both sides" try to use their media to support their cause and "bash" anything the others are saying? Because THAT is happening!

No we can't agree and that's not happening. Please show me a case of Western governments interfering with press freedom about the Crimean situation.
Saryph
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1955 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-30 18:36:17
March 30 2014 18:29 GMT
#7714
I mean...you had the Russians replacing Ukrainian television channels with Russian ones before the referendum and at the same time the Russians were shutting down opposition media (websites, etc.) in their own country. Not sure where else you see that happening.

Also...zero hedge.
sekritzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
1515 Posts
March 30 2014 18:42 GMT
#7715
As far as press freedom goes, I'm talking about the US, although the government does not directly give them bullets points, they heavily terrorize them up to the point where they have become just as ineffective as Russian media.


Common ways for the US govt to control media is by "punishing" them if they don't write stories in line with the current administrations. Punishments include not inviting them to press conferences, etc amongst other things. The govt also heavily relies on selective "leaks" from "officials" which most news sites rely on to send out specific information. Anyone who still thinks American media is actually not heavily influenced/controlled by the govt is delusional. There is a vast amount of information on the net on the ways the govt sends "signals" to the American media and anyone interested can do the research for himself or simply follow the "we have a free press parade" and sing kumbaya.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-30 18:51:08
March 30 2014 18:49 GMT
#7716
On March 31 2014 03:42 sekritzzz wrote:
As far as press freedom goes, I'm talking about the US, although the government does not directly give them bullets points, they heavily terrorize them up to the point where they have become just as ineffective as Russian media.


Common ways for the US govt to control media is by "punishing" them if they don't write stories in line with the current administrations. Punishments include not inviting them to press conferences, etc amongst other things. The govt also heavily relies on selective "leaks" from "officials" which most news sites rely on to send out specific information. Anyone who still thinks American media is actually not heavily influenced/controlled by the govt is delusional. There is a vast amount of information on the net on the ways the govt sends "signals" to the American media and anyone interested can do the research for himself or simply follow the "we have a free press parade" and sing kumbaya.


In my mind there's a difference between "chosing the media you wanna use" and "chosing the story the media will cover". What you're describing is pretty normal, you don't want the critical press in the press conference. That's not influencing, since medias still cover stuff they don't like.

On the other hand you have a government controlled media, where they actually get told what to write/broadcast.

Don't know about your world, in mine that's a pretty huge difference.

edit: on the other hand, there is that story with the snowden interview..
On track to MA1950A.
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
March 30 2014 18:52 GMT
#7717
On March 31 2014 03:42 sekritzzz wrote:
As far as press freedom goes, I'm talking about the US, although the government does not directly give them bullets points, they heavily terrorize them up to the point where they have become just as ineffective as Russian media.


Common ways for the US govt to control media is by "punishing" them if they don't write stories in line with the current administrations. Punishments include not inviting them to press conferences, etc amongst other things. The govt also heavily relies on selective "leaks" from "officials" which most news sites rely on to send out specific information. Anyone who still thinks American media is actually not heavily influenced/controlled by the govt is delusional. There is a vast amount of information on the net on the ways the govt sends "signals" to the American media and anyone interested can do the research for himself or simply follow the "we have a free press parade" and sing kumbaya.


You actually just said US media is as ineffective as russian media... Do go on. No really, do go on, link us some evidence to support your stance that you so strongly insist on. As for why you're wrong? Plenty of US media sources have plenty of anti US government articles. Lots of ones bashing obamacare, bashing our economy, bashing the way it's going, articles about how the NSA needs to be stopped, articles about the current struggle with NSA and those who are suppose to oversee them. Russia would never allow anything similar to be published.
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-30 19:00:07
March 30 2014 18:59 GMT
#7718
On March 31 2014 03:52 hunts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2014 03:42 sekritzzz wrote:
As far as press freedom goes, I'm talking about the US, although the government does not directly give them bullets points, they heavily terrorize them up to the point where they have become just as ineffective as Russian media.


Common ways for the US govt to control media is by "punishing" them if they don't write stories in line with the current administrations. Punishments include not inviting them to press conferences, etc amongst other things. The govt also heavily relies on selective "leaks" from "officials" which most news sites rely on to send out specific information. Anyone who still thinks American media is actually not heavily influenced/controlled by the govt is delusional. There is a vast amount of information on the net on the ways the govt sends "signals" to the American media and anyone interested can do the research for himself or simply follow the "we have a free press parade" and sing kumbaya.


You actually just said US media is as ineffective as russian media... Do go on. No really, do go on, link us some evidence to support your stance that you so strongly insist on. As for why you're wrong? Plenty of US media sources have plenty of anti US government articles. Lots of ones bashing obamacare, bashing our economy, bashing the way it's going, articles about how the NSA needs to be stopped, articles about the current struggle with NSA and those who are suppose to oversee them. Russia would never allow anything similar to be published.


O'kay.
Because of it you can just turn on Echo Moscow/RBC/TVRain or some other stuff, if you want to see other side of coin/listen to some experts/have fun.

There aren't 2-3 channels in this country.
It's srsly like we have everything blocked, living with bag on head and don't know anything.

LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
March 30 2014 19:36 GMT
#7719
On March 30 2014 23:59 sekritzzz wrote:
Well it looks like Russia has had enough of the west's manipulation throughout the past 25 years to further extend their sphere of influence through missile shields and pressing nations to join NATO. This is going to be a new chapter in the way Russia conducts it's foreign policy and it looks like it will rely on real politik from now on. This is a copy/paste from zerohedge on highlights from Russia's foreign minister.



I think this has been clear for a long time. The question is whether Russia's confidence is justified or not.

Russia is no China. Despite their gas exports their economy is much less significant on the global scale, their population is 1/10 of China's and declining. Even if they could unite Ukraine, Belarus and their central asian republics into a close alliance they would be economically insignificant compared to China, let alone the western alliance.

I don't know if it's their nuclear arsenal or their nationalistic pride but a lot of Russians seem to think that this is a battle of equals. It's not. Not even close. The cold war wasn't a battle of equals either and guess which side did better in the last 25 years.

As for their famed partnership China seems more neutral than anything. They won't join any sanctions but they don't seem to pressure the west either.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
March 30 2014 19:58 GMT
#7720
On March 31 2014 03:59 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2014 03:52 hunts wrote:
On March 31 2014 03:42 sekritzzz wrote:
As far as press freedom goes, I'm talking about the US, although the government does not directly give them bullets points, they heavily terrorize them up to the point where they have become just as ineffective as Russian media.


Common ways for the US govt to control media is by "punishing" them if they don't write stories in line with the current administrations. Punishments include not inviting them to press conferences, etc amongst other things. The govt also heavily relies on selective "leaks" from "officials" which most news sites rely on to send out specific information. Anyone who still thinks American media is actually not heavily influenced/controlled by the govt is delusional. There is a vast amount of information on the net on the ways the govt sends "signals" to the American media and anyone interested can do the research for himself or simply follow the "we have a free press parade" and sing kumbaya.


You actually just said US media is as ineffective as russian media... Do go on. No really, do go on, link us some evidence to support your stance that you so strongly insist on. As for why you're wrong? Plenty of US media sources have plenty of anti US government articles. Lots of ones bashing obamacare, bashing our economy, bashing the way it's going, articles about how the NSA needs to be stopped, articles about the current struggle with NSA and those who are suppose to oversee them. Russia would never allow anything similar to be published.


O'kay.
Because of it you can just turn on Echo Moscow/RBC/TVRain or some other stuff, if you want to see other side of coin/listen to some experts/have fun.

There aren't 2-3 channels in this country.
It's srsly like we have everything blocked, living with bag on head and don't know anything.


You do realize good news has no sides, there is only the truth and good news tries to find and convey that. News is meant to inform not sway.
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