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Russian Federation117 Posts
On March 21 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 02:22 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 21 2014 00:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:55 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 20 2014 23:34 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:30 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 20 2014 23:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:09 FatCat_13 wrote:Can you read Ukrainian or just google-translate? Ye, i know Ukranian pretty well. But sometimes i use translator in case i can't understand some weird words. Cute language tho, hard to speak for me. On March 20 2014 23:10 Ghanburighan wrote:That's a bit too much foreign language to go through but as I could gather, they will have a temporary law (state of emergency?) which allows people judged to be suspicious (didn't understand the conditions fully) to be detained for 30 days. The purpose is to stop provocations/sabotage or something similar. Basically they can just arrest almost everyone. It's like first step before repressions usually, that's why i'm getting worried about it. I won't be surprised if some of big politician figures get arrested as well, especially, from Eastern Ukraine. There were definitely some conditions, can't understand the specifics. I will just copypaste it. Article 2 . Order of preventive detention, the person If there are sufficient data obtained in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, which give reason to suspect a person in the preparation or commission of unlawful acts specified in Article 1 of this Act , a person may be detained for up to 30 days. Detention on the basis of a reasoned decision, approved by the chief of the department of internal affairs or security body with warrants, which the detainee met not later than 24 hours after her arrest. Preventive detention does not apply to pregnant women, women over 55 and women with children under the age of fourteen years , I disabled the group of men older than 60 years , as well as persons who have not attained the age at which criminal responsibility. Right to authorize preventive detention have to Prosecutor General of Ukraine , prosecutors Republic of Crimea , regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol , and equivalent prosecutors and their deputies , as well as prosecutors cities and districts. + This. Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , stating the facts of growth and escalating extremism and separatism in the country which threatens the national interests of the state and society , as well as the territorial integrity of Ukraine , in order to ensure peace and security in the state, enters a temporary order of preventive detention of persons involved in the preparation and crimes against foundations of Ukraine's national security , public safety and public order, against the authority of state bodies, local authorities and citizens' associations and other crimes that undermine the integrity and sovereignty of the state. So, what's wrong with this law? It does not say to lock down the mothers with little babyes for singing stupid songs in a church. Because it's basically martial law in country with ability to remove everyone who will cheer for Russia, let's say. They don't have to tell you why are you getting punished except for thing that "You're suspicious guy who're escalating separatism idea", it's basic. Without actual initiation of martial law to hold elections. And lol, don't even try to connect it with Pussy Riot. edit: Timchenko, Rotenberg and Kovalchyuk are sanctioned by USA. With these I say it's getting serious... no good for us. Still kind of small time. Timchenko was already fleeing from the West after Swiss began to examine his business dealings -- and you know you have to have done some shady stuff for the Swiss to wake up and get involved. But I suppose since 1/3rd of his business is now basically acting as the front end of Rosneft exports to the West its meant to be as a blow to Sechin?
It's striking both Putin and Sechin since Timchenko is a very best friend of both and has been an important part of negotiations abroad. I guess that should not have direct impact on Gunvor though?
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On March 21 2014 02:43 FatCat_13 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 02:23 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 00:26 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 00:17 Fjodorov wrote:On March 21 2014 00:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:55 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 20 2014 23:34 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:30 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 20 2014 23:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:09 FatCat_13 wrote:
[quote]
Can you read Ukrainian or just google-translate? Ye, i know Ukranian pretty well. But sometimes i use translator in case i can't understand some weird words. Cute language tho, hard to speak for me. On March 20 2014 23:10 Ghanburighan wrote:
[quote]
That's a bit too much foreign language to go through but as I could gather, they will have a temporary law (state of emergency?) which allows people judged to be suspicious (didn't understand the conditions fully) to be detained for 30 days. The purpose is to stop provocations/sabotage or something similar.
Basically they can just arrest almost everyone. It's like first step before repressions usually, that's why i'm getting worried about it. I won't be surprised if some of big politician figures get arrested as well, especially, from Eastern Ukraine. There were definitely some conditions, can't understand the specifics. I will just copypaste it. Article 2 . Order of preventive detention, the person If there are sufficient data obtained in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, which give reason to suspect a person in the preparation or commission of unlawful acts specified in Article 1 of this Act , a person may be detained for up to 30 days. Detention on the basis of a reasoned decision, approved by the chief of the department of internal affairs or security body with warrants, which the detainee met not later than 24 hours after her arrest. Preventive detention does not apply to pregnant women, women over 55 and women with children under the age of fourteen years , I disabled the group of men older than 60 years , as well as persons who have not attained the age at which criminal responsibility. Right to authorize preventive detention have to Prosecutor General of Ukraine , prosecutors Republic of Crimea , regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol , and equivalent prosecutors and their deputies , as well as prosecutors cities and districts. + This. Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , stating the facts of growth and escalating extremism and separatism in the country which threatens the national interests of the state and society , as well as the territorial integrity of Ukraine , in order to ensure peace and security in the state, enters a temporary order of preventive detention of persons involved in the preparation and crimes against foundations of Ukraine's national security , public safety and public order, against the authority of state bodies, local authorities and citizens' associations and other crimes that undermine the integrity and sovereignty of the state. So, what's wrong with this law? It does not say to lock down the mothers with little babyes for singing stupid songs in a church. Because it's basically martial law in country with ability to remove everyone who will cheer for Russia, let's say. They don't have to tell you why are you getting punished except for thing that "You're suspicious guy who're escalating separatism idea", it's basic. Without actual initiation of martial law to hold elections. And lol, don't even try to connect it with Pussy Riot. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/journalist-questioned-after-asking-for-troops-to-liberate-russians-from-corrupt-officials/496393.html Yeah Ukraine has a lot to learn from Russian legal system Ah, this dude :D My friends from Vologda told me about it, it's fun. Probably he will just pay some moneys for it, not big amount, and that's all. Noone at least will get him in jail because he joked. I like your style. No actual people arrested in Ukraine under Ukrainian laws, you: FASCISM IS COMING Actual people arrested in Russia under Russian laws, you: hehe, its okay, he just pay moneys and it will be fine! Well, I think some have been arrested. That's no different from Russia though. Has nothing to do with fascism.
Its impossible for anyone to be detained under that law since its still in committee, so has not taken the effect of law. I assume whoever is currently detained -- and by that I think he means Russians -- they are detained under various criminal laws or are in pre-trial detention where they can be held for up to 8 years. Nice holdover from Soviet era.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 21 2014 02:23 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 00:26 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 00:17 Fjodorov wrote:On March 21 2014 00:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:55 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 20 2014 23:34 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:30 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 20 2014 23:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:09 FatCat_13 wrote:Can you read Ukrainian or just google-translate? Ye, i know Ukranian pretty well. But sometimes i use translator in case i can't understand some weird words. Cute language tho, hard to speak for me. On March 20 2014 23:10 Ghanburighan wrote:That's a bit too much foreign language to go through but as I could gather, they will have a temporary law (state of emergency?) which allows people judged to be suspicious (didn't understand the conditions fully) to be detained for 30 days. The purpose is to stop provocations/sabotage or something similar. Basically they can just arrest almost everyone. It's like first step before repressions usually, that's why i'm getting worried about it. I won't be surprised if some of big politician figures get arrested as well, especially, from Eastern Ukraine. There were definitely some conditions, can't understand the specifics. I will just copypaste it. Article 2 . Order of preventive detention, the person If there are sufficient data obtained in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, which give reason to suspect a person in the preparation or commission of unlawful acts specified in Article 1 of this Act , a person may be detained for up to 30 days. Detention on the basis of a reasoned decision, approved by the chief of the department of internal affairs or security body with warrants, which the detainee met not later than 24 hours after her arrest. Preventive detention does not apply to pregnant women, women over 55 and women with children under the age of fourteen years , I disabled the group of men older than 60 years , as well as persons who have not attained the age at which criminal responsibility. Right to authorize preventive detention have to Prosecutor General of Ukraine , prosecutors Republic of Crimea , regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol , and equivalent prosecutors and their deputies , as well as prosecutors cities and districts. + This. Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , stating the facts of growth and escalating extremism and separatism in the country which threatens the national interests of the state and society , as well as the territorial integrity of Ukraine , in order to ensure peace and security in the state, enters a temporary order of preventive detention of persons involved in the preparation and crimes against foundations of Ukraine's national security , public safety and public order, against the authority of state bodies, local authorities and citizens' associations and other crimes that undermine the integrity and sovereignty of the state. So, what's wrong with this law? It does not say to lock down the mothers with little babyes for singing stupid songs in a church. Because it's basically martial law in country with ability to remove everyone who will cheer for Russia, let's say. They don't have to tell you why are you getting punished except for thing that "You're suspicious guy who're escalating separatism idea", it's basic. Without actual initiation of martial law to hold elections. And lol, don't even try to connect it with Pussy Riot. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/journalist-questioned-after-asking-for-troops-to-liberate-russians-from-corrupt-officials/496393.html Yeah Ukraine has a lot to learn from Russian legal system Ah, this dude :D My friends from Vologda told me about it, it's fun. Probably he will just pay some moneys for it, not big amount, and that's all. Noone at least will get him in jail because he joked. I like your style. No actual people arrested in Ukraine under Ukrainian laws, you: FASCISM IS COMING Actual people arrested in Russia under Russian laws, you: hehe, its okay, he just pay moneys and it will be fine!
LOL
Where did i say that there is fascism in Ukraine? At least once per those almost 400 pages? Of course it exists but not in those amounts like people tend to say.
If those laws are first step to repressions - it's not same to say that it's fascism.
Sanctions look strong. Let's see now if it's real.
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On March 21 2014 02:51 FatCat_13 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 02:22 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 21 2014 00:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:55 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 20 2014 23:34 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:30 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 20 2014 23:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:09 FatCat_13 wrote:Can you read Ukrainian or just google-translate? Ye, i know Ukranian pretty well. But sometimes i use translator in case i can't understand some weird words. Cute language tho, hard to speak for me. On March 20 2014 23:10 Ghanburighan wrote:That's a bit too much foreign language to go through but as I could gather, they will have a temporary law (state of emergency?) which allows people judged to be suspicious (didn't understand the conditions fully) to be detained for 30 days. The purpose is to stop provocations/sabotage or something similar. Basically they can just arrest almost everyone. It's like first step before repressions usually, that's why i'm getting worried about it. I won't be surprised if some of big politician figures get arrested as well, especially, from Eastern Ukraine. There were definitely some conditions, can't understand the specifics. I will just copypaste it. Article 2 . Order of preventive detention, the person If there are sufficient data obtained in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, which give reason to suspect a person in the preparation or commission of unlawful acts specified in Article 1 of this Act , a person may be detained for up to 30 days. Detention on the basis of a reasoned decision, approved by the chief of the department of internal affairs or security body with warrants, which the detainee met not later than 24 hours after her arrest. Preventive detention does not apply to pregnant women, women over 55 and women with children under the age of fourteen years , I disabled the group of men older than 60 years , as well as persons who have not attained the age at which criminal responsibility. Right to authorize preventive detention have to Prosecutor General of Ukraine , prosecutors Republic of Crimea , regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol , and equivalent prosecutors and their deputies , as well as prosecutors cities and districts. + This. Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , stating the facts of growth and escalating extremism and separatism in the country which threatens the national interests of the state and society , as well as the territorial integrity of Ukraine , in order to ensure peace and security in the state, enters a temporary order of preventive detention of persons involved in the preparation and crimes against foundations of Ukraine's national security , public safety and public order, against the authority of state bodies, local authorities and citizens' associations and other crimes that undermine the integrity and sovereignty of the state. So, what's wrong with this law? It does not say to lock down the mothers with little babyes for singing stupid songs in a church. Because it's basically martial law in country with ability to remove everyone who will cheer for Russia, let's say. They don't have to tell you why are you getting punished except for thing that "You're suspicious guy who're escalating separatism idea", it's basic. Without actual initiation of martial law to hold elections. And lol, don't even try to connect it with Pussy Riot. edit: Timchenko, Rotenberg and Kovalchyuk are sanctioned by USA. With these I say it's getting serious... no good for us. Still kind of small time. Timchenko was already fleeing from the West after Swiss began to examine his business dealings -- and you know you have to have done some shady stuff for the Swiss to wake up and get involved. But I suppose since 1/3rd of his business is now basically acting as the front end of Rosneft exports to the West its meant to be as a blow to Sechin? It's striking both Putin and Sechin since Timchenko is a very best friend of both and has been an important part of negotiations abroad. I guess that should not have direct impact on Gunvor though?
I mean, do you think that banning Surkov was striking at Putin because he is good friends with him? Timchenko for example wasnt allowed in on the new six month tender to sell oil abroad but Vitol/Glencore (his rival companies) were. Then Rosneft took away Timchenko's right to sell gas to Inter Rao Ues, and he is forbidden to sell gas abroad by gazprom obviously so I wouldnt say he is that close friends with Sechin. Sechin seems to be re-privatizing at least some of Timchenko's wealth back to state/his own control..
But I guess its at least a step up from random Duma members so there is that.
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On March 21 2014 02:58 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 02:23 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 00:26 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 00:17 Fjodorov wrote:On March 21 2014 00:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:55 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 20 2014 23:34 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:30 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 20 2014 23:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:09 FatCat_13 wrote:
[quote]
Can you read Ukrainian or just google-translate? Ye, i know Ukranian pretty well. But sometimes i use translator in case i can't understand some weird words. Cute language tho, hard to speak for me. On March 20 2014 23:10 Ghanburighan wrote:
[quote]
That's a bit too much foreign language to go through but as I could gather, they will have a temporary law (state of emergency?) which allows people judged to be suspicious (didn't understand the conditions fully) to be detained for 30 days. The purpose is to stop provocations/sabotage or something similar.
Basically they can just arrest almost everyone. It's like first step before repressions usually, that's why i'm getting worried about it. I won't be surprised if some of big politician figures get arrested as well, especially, from Eastern Ukraine. There were definitely some conditions, can't understand the specifics. I will just copypaste it. Article 2 . Order of preventive detention, the person If there are sufficient data obtained in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, which give reason to suspect a person in the preparation or commission of unlawful acts specified in Article 1 of this Act , a person may be detained for up to 30 days. Detention on the basis of a reasoned decision, approved by the chief of the department of internal affairs or security body with warrants, which the detainee met not later than 24 hours after her arrest. Preventive detention does not apply to pregnant women, women over 55 and women with children under the age of fourteen years , I disabled the group of men older than 60 years , as well as persons who have not attained the age at which criminal responsibility. Right to authorize preventive detention have to Prosecutor General of Ukraine , prosecutors Republic of Crimea , regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol , and equivalent prosecutors and their deputies , as well as prosecutors cities and districts. + This. Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , stating the facts of growth and escalating extremism and separatism in the country which threatens the national interests of the state and society , as well as the territorial integrity of Ukraine , in order to ensure peace and security in the state, enters a temporary order of preventive detention of persons involved in the preparation and crimes against foundations of Ukraine's national security , public safety and public order, against the authority of state bodies, local authorities and citizens' associations and other crimes that undermine the integrity and sovereignty of the state. So, what's wrong with this law? It does not say to lock down the mothers with little babyes for singing stupid songs in a church. Because it's basically martial law in country with ability to remove everyone who will cheer for Russia, let's say. They don't have to tell you why are you getting punished except for thing that "You're suspicious guy who're escalating separatism idea", it's basic. Without actual initiation of martial law to hold elections. And lol, don't even try to connect it with Pussy Riot. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/journalist-questioned-after-asking-for-troops-to-liberate-russians-from-corrupt-officials/496393.html Yeah Ukraine has a lot to learn from Russian legal system Ah, this dude :D My friends from Vologda told me about it, it's fun. Probably he will just pay some moneys for it, not big amount, and that's all. Noone at least will get him in jail because he joked. I like your style. No actual people arrested in Ukraine under Ukrainian laws, you: FASCISM IS COMING Actual people arrested in Russia under Russian laws, you: hehe, its okay, he just pay moneys and it will be fine! LOL Where did i say that there is fascism in Ukraine? At least once per those almost 400 pages? Of course it exists but not in those amounts like people tend to say. If those laws are first step to repressions - it's not same to say that it's fascism.
Why would they need this law for repression? Most of Ukraine's criminal code is still from Soviet era. You can be held in pre-trial detention for 8 years. This law is just another symbolic move.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 21 2014 03:02 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 02:58 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 02:23 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 00:26 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 00:17 Fjodorov wrote:On March 21 2014 00:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:55 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 20 2014 23:34 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:30 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 20 2014 23:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
[quote]
Ye, i know Ukranian pretty well. But sometimes i use translator in case i can't understand some weird words. Cute language tho, hard to speak for me.
[quote]
Basically they can just arrest almost everyone. It's like first step before repressions usually, that's why i'm getting worried about it.
I won't be surprised if some of big politician figures get arrested as well, especially, from Eastern Ukraine.
There were definitely some conditions, can't understand the specifics. I will just copypaste it. Article 2 . Order of preventive detention, the person If there are sufficient data obtained in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, which give reason to suspect a person in the preparation or commission of unlawful acts specified in Article 1 of this Act , a person may be detained for up to 30 days. Detention on the basis of a reasoned decision, approved by the chief of the department of internal affairs or security body with warrants, which the detainee met not later than 24 hours after her arrest. Preventive detention does not apply to pregnant women, women over 55 and women with children under the age of fourteen years , I disabled the group of men older than 60 years , as well as persons who have not attained the age at which criminal responsibility. Right to authorize preventive detention have to Prosecutor General of Ukraine , prosecutors Republic of Crimea , regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol , and equivalent prosecutors and their deputies , as well as prosecutors cities and districts. + This. Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , stating the facts of growth and escalating extremism and separatism in the country which threatens the national interests of the state and society , as well as the territorial integrity of Ukraine , in order to ensure peace and security in the state, enters a temporary order of preventive detention of persons involved in the preparation and crimes against foundations of Ukraine's national security , public safety and public order, against the authority of state bodies, local authorities and citizens' associations and other crimes that undermine the integrity and sovereignty of the state. So, what's wrong with this law? It does not say to lock down the mothers with little babyes for singing stupid songs in a church. Because it's basically martial law in country with ability to remove everyone who will cheer for Russia, let's say. They don't have to tell you why are you getting punished except for thing that "You're suspicious guy who're escalating separatism idea", it's basic. Without actual initiation of martial law to hold elections. And lol, don't even try to connect it with Pussy Riot. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/journalist-questioned-after-asking-for-troops-to-liberate-russians-from-corrupt-officials/496393.html Yeah Ukraine has a lot to learn from Russian legal system Ah, this dude :D My friends from Vologda told me about it, it's fun. Probably he will just pay some moneys for it, not big amount, and that's all. Noone at least will get him in jail because he joked. I like your style. No actual people arrested in Ukraine under Ukrainian laws, you: FASCISM IS COMING Actual people arrested in Russia under Russian laws, you: hehe, its okay, he just pay moneys and it will be fine! LOL Where did i say that there is fascism in Ukraine? At least once per those almost 400 pages? Of course it exists but not in those amounts like people tend to say. If those laws are first step to repressions - it's not same to say that it's fascism. Why would they need this law for repression? Most of Ukraine's criminal code is still from Soviet era. You can be held in pre-trial detention for 8 years. This law is just another symbolic move.
Agreed, but still.
Isn't there something similar in US?
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On March 21 2014 03:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 03:02 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 02:58 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 02:23 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 00:26 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 00:17 Fjodorov wrote:On March 21 2014 00:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:55 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 20 2014 23:34 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:30 Ghanburighan wrote:
[quote]
There were definitely some conditions, can't understand the specifics. I will just copypaste it. Article 2 . Order of preventive detention, the person If there are sufficient data obtained in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, which give reason to suspect a person in the preparation or commission of unlawful acts specified in Article 1 of this Act , a person may be detained for up to 30 days. Detention on the basis of a reasoned decision, approved by the chief of the department of internal affairs or security body with warrants, which the detainee met not later than 24 hours after her arrest. Preventive detention does not apply to pregnant women, women over 55 and women with children under the age of fourteen years , I disabled the group of men older than 60 years , as well as persons who have not attained the age at which criminal responsibility. Right to authorize preventive detention have to Prosecutor General of Ukraine , prosecutors Republic of Crimea , regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol , and equivalent prosecutors and their deputies , as well as prosecutors cities and districts. + This. Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , stating the facts of growth and escalating extremism and separatism in the country which threatens the national interests of the state and society , as well as the territorial integrity of Ukraine , in order to ensure peace and security in the state, enters a temporary order of preventive detention of persons involved in the preparation and crimes against foundations of Ukraine's national security , public safety and public order, against the authority of state bodies, local authorities and citizens' associations and other crimes that undermine the integrity and sovereignty of the state. So, what's wrong with this law? It does not say to lock down the mothers with little babyes for singing stupid songs in a church. Because it's basically martial law in country with ability to remove everyone who will cheer for Russia, let's say. They don't have to tell you why are you getting punished except for thing that "You're suspicious guy who're escalating separatism idea", it's basic. Without actual initiation of martial law to hold elections. And lol, don't even try to connect it with Pussy Riot. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/journalist-questioned-after-asking-for-troops-to-liberate-russians-from-corrupt-officials/496393.html Yeah Ukraine has a lot to learn from Russian legal system Ah, this dude :D My friends from Vologda told me about it, it's fun. Probably he will just pay some moneys for it, not big amount, and that's all. Noone at least will get him in jail because he joked. I like your style. No actual people arrested in Ukraine under Ukrainian laws, you: FASCISM IS COMING Actual people arrested in Russia under Russian laws, you: hehe, its okay, he just pay moneys and it will be fine! LOL Where did i say that there is fascism in Ukraine? At least once per those almost 400 pages? Of course it exists but not in those amounts like people tend to say. If those laws are first step to repressions - it's not same to say that it's fascism. Why would they need this law for repression? Most of Ukraine's criminal code is still from Soviet era. You can be held in pre-trial detention for 8 years. This law is just another symbolic move. Agreed, but still. Isn't there something similar in US?
pre-trial detention? or anti-separatism laws?
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US Supreme Court in 2005 and Congress in 2006 or 2007 both affirmed right to habeas corpus cannot be denied to US citizens under any circumstances or anyone under US jurisdiction so no the US cannot hold you in pre-trial detention for years without you getting your shot before a judge to get released.
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Russian Federation117 Posts
On March 21 2014 02:59 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 02:51 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 21 2014 02:42 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 02:22 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 21 2014 00:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:55 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 20 2014 23:34 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:30 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 20 2014 23:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:09 FatCat_13 wrote:
[quote]
Can you read Ukrainian or just google-translate? Ye, i know Ukranian pretty well. But sometimes i use translator in case i can't understand some weird words. Cute language tho, hard to speak for me. On March 20 2014 23:10 Ghanburighan wrote:
[quote]
That's a bit too much foreign language to go through but as I could gather, they will have a temporary law (state of emergency?) which allows people judged to be suspicious (didn't understand the conditions fully) to be detained for 30 days. The purpose is to stop provocations/sabotage or something similar.
Basically they can just arrest almost everyone. It's like first step before repressions usually, that's why i'm getting worried about it. I won't be surprised if some of big politician figures get arrested as well, especially, from Eastern Ukraine. There were definitely some conditions, can't understand the specifics. I will just copypaste it. Article 2 . Order of preventive detention, the person If there are sufficient data obtained in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, which give reason to suspect a person in the preparation or commission of unlawful acts specified in Article 1 of this Act , a person may be detained for up to 30 days. Detention on the basis of a reasoned decision, approved by the chief of the department of internal affairs or security body with warrants, which the detainee met not later than 24 hours after her arrest. Preventive detention does not apply to pregnant women, women over 55 and women with children under the age of fourteen years , I disabled the group of men older than 60 years , as well as persons who have not attained the age at which criminal responsibility. Right to authorize preventive detention have to Prosecutor General of Ukraine , prosecutors Republic of Crimea , regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol , and equivalent prosecutors and their deputies , as well as prosecutors cities and districts. + This. Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , stating the facts of growth and escalating extremism and separatism in the country which threatens the national interests of the state and society , as well as the territorial integrity of Ukraine , in order to ensure peace and security in the state, enters a temporary order of preventive detention of persons involved in the preparation and crimes against foundations of Ukraine's national security , public safety and public order, against the authority of state bodies, local authorities and citizens' associations and other crimes that undermine the integrity and sovereignty of the state. So, what's wrong with this law? It does not say to lock down the mothers with little babyes for singing stupid songs in a church. Because it's basically martial law in country with ability to remove everyone who will cheer for Russia, let's say. They don't have to tell you why are you getting punished except for thing that "You're suspicious guy who're escalating separatism idea", it's basic. Without actual initiation of martial law to hold elections. And lol, don't even try to connect it with Pussy Riot. edit: Timchenko, Rotenberg and Kovalchyuk are sanctioned by USA. With these I say it's getting serious... no good for us. Still kind of small time. Timchenko was already fleeing from the West after Swiss began to examine his business dealings -- and you know you have to have done some shady stuff for the Swiss to wake up and get involved. But I suppose since 1/3rd of his business is now basically acting as the front end of Rosneft exports to the West its meant to be as a blow to Sechin? It's striking both Putin and Sechin since Timchenko is a very best friend of both and has been an important part of negotiations abroad. I guess that should not have direct impact on Gunvor though? I mean, do you think that banning Surkov was striking at Putin because he is good friends with him? Timchenko for example wasnt allowed in on the new six month tender to sell oil abroad but Vitol/Glencore (his rival companies) were. Then Rosneft took away Timchenko's right to sell gas to Inter Rao Ues, and he is forbidden to sell gas abroad by gazprom obviously so I wouldnt say he is that close friends with Sechin. Sechin seems to be re-privatizing at least some of Timchenko's wealth back to state/his own control.. But I guess its at least a step up from random Duma members so there is that.
Nah, Surkov is not that close with Putin. He's been around cause he's damn smart and a king of manipulation but Putin never allowed him get too close as far as I know. Not sure why he's appeared on the list.
Sechin and Timchenko might have had threir friendship drying out lately but they had been very close friends at the times of confiscating the YUKOS owned companies.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 21 2014 03:10 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 03:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 03:02 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 02:58 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 02:23 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 00:26 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 00:17 Fjodorov wrote:On March 21 2014 00:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:55 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 20 2014 23:34 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
[quote]
I will just copypaste it.
Article 2 . Order of preventive detention, the person
If there are sufficient data obtained in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, which give reason to suspect a person in the preparation or commission of unlawful acts specified in Article 1 of this Act , a person may be detained for up to 30 days.
Detention on the basis of a reasoned decision, approved by the chief of the department of internal affairs or security body with warrants, which the detainee met not later than 24 hours after her arrest.
Preventive detention does not apply to pregnant women, women over 55 and women with children under the age of fourteen years , I disabled the group of men older than 60 years , as well as persons who have not attained the age at which criminal responsibility.
Right to authorize preventive detention have to Prosecutor General of Ukraine , prosecutors Republic of Crimea , regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol , and equivalent prosecutors and their deputies , as well as prosecutors cities and districts.
+ This.
Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , stating the facts of growth and escalating extremism and separatism in the country which threatens the national interests of the state and society , as well as the territorial integrity of Ukraine , in order to ensure peace and security in the state, enters a temporary order of preventive detention of persons involved in the preparation and crimes against foundations of Ukraine's national security , public safety and public order, against the authority of state bodies, local authorities and citizens' associations and other crimes that undermine the integrity and sovereignty of the state. So, what's wrong with this law? It does not say to lock down the mothers with little babyes for singing stupid songs in a church. Because it's basically martial law in country with ability to remove everyone who will cheer for Russia, let's say. They don't have to tell you why are you getting punished except for thing that "You're suspicious guy who're escalating separatism idea", it's basic. Without actual initiation of martial law to hold elections. And lol, don't even try to connect it with Pussy Riot. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/journalist-questioned-after-asking-for-troops-to-liberate-russians-from-corrupt-officials/496393.html Yeah Ukraine has a lot to learn from Russian legal system Ah, this dude :D My friends from Vologda told me about it, it's fun. Probably he will just pay some moneys for it, not big amount, and that's all. Noone at least will get him in jail because he joked. I like your style. No actual people arrested in Ukraine under Ukrainian laws, you: FASCISM IS COMING Actual people arrested in Russia under Russian laws, you: hehe, its okay, he just pay moneys and it will be fine! LOL Where did i say that there is fascism in Ukraine? At least once per those almost 400 pages? Of course it exists but not in those amounts like people tend to say. If those laws are first step to repressions - it's not same to say that it's fascism. Why would they need this law for repression? Most of Ukraine's criminal code is still from Soviet era. You can be held in pre-trial detention for 8 years. This law is just another symbolic move. Agreed, but still. Isn't there something similar in US? pre-trial detention? or anti-separatism laws?
Detention, i have nothing against anti-separatism laws.
But pre-trial detention is just fucking sad.
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On March 21 2014 03:20 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 03:10 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 03:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 03:02 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 02:58 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 02:23 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 00:26 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 21 2014 00:17 Fjodorov wrote:On March 21 2014 00:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 20 2014 23:55 FatCat_13 wrote:
[quote]
So, what's wrong with this law? It does not say to lock down the mothers with little babyes for singing stupid songs in a church. Because it's basically martial law in country with ability to remove everyone who will cheer for Russia, let's say. They don't have to tell you why are you getting punished except for thing that "You're suspicious guy who're escalating separatism idea", it's basic. Without actual initiation of martial law to hold elections. And lol, don't even try to connect it with Pussy Riot. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/journalist-questioned-after-asking-for-troops-to-liberate-russians-from-corrupt-officials/496393.html Yeah Ukraine has a lot to learn from Russian legal system Ah, this dude :D My friends from Vologda told me about it, it's fun. Probably he will just pay some moneys for it, not big amount, and that's all. Noone at least will get him in jail because he joked. I like your style. No actual people arrested in Ukraine under Ukrainian laws, you: FASCISM IS COMING Actual people arrested in Russia under Russian laws, you: hehe, its okay, he just pay moneys and it will be fine! LOL Where did i say that there is fascism in Ukraine? At least once per those almost 400 pages? Of course it exists but not in those amounts like people tend to say. If those laws are first step to repressions - it's not same to say that it's fascism. Why would they need this law for repression? Most of Ukraine's criminal code is still from Soviet era. You can be held in pre-trial detention for 8 years. This law is just another symbolic move. Agreed, but still. Isn't there something similar in US? pre-trial detention? or anti-separatism laws? Detention, i have nothing against anti-separatism laws. But pre-trial detention is just fucking sad.
when you are arrested they have to give you a reason why you were arrested, and in a reasonable time you get a lawyer and see a judge about it and a hearing about being out on bail (max is days, if the court system is very busy/poorly staffed). There is no Soviet style pre-trial detention where you are just chilling in kamera for a while.
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Pretty much every country has pre-trial detention (remand) I think? It's just worse in some countries than others.
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On March 21 2014 03:30 Arevall wrote:
Pretty much every country has pre-trial detention (remand) I think? It's just worse in some countries than others.
Yes but in the Soviet style criminal codes the pre-trial detention is basically a jail sentence, you dont get a lawyer, you dont get bail hearings, you might not even see a judge for a while. Its just a way to brutalize the person detained, not as an administrative system to hold them before they see a judge/their attorney.
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Say "Go be Putin somewhere else" in a fake Russian accent it's hilarious
In the US a judge has to order you remanded without bail until trial. Both the prosecution and the defense get to make their arguments as to why you should be remanded or get bail. The judge then decides. Remand is supposed to be and usually only is only for serious violent or organized crime offenses or when there is allegedly a real flight risk.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 21 2014 03:33 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 03:30 Arevall wrote:
Pretty much every country has pre-trial detention (remand) I think? It's just worse in some countries than others. Yes but in the Soviet style criminal codes the pre-trial detention is basically a jail sentence, you dont get a lawyer, you dont get bail hearings, you might not even see a judge for a while. Its just a way to brutalize the person detained, not as an administrative system to hold them before they see a judge/their attorney.
US still don't let doctor to come to pilot Yaroshenko.
Don't think that it's ok as well, but pre-trial detention is ridiculous.
Meanwhile.
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/20/03/2014/912512.shtml
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On March 21 2014 04:05 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 03:33 Sub40APM wrote:On March 21 2014 03:30 Arevall wrote:
Pretty much every country has pre-trial detention (remand) I think? It's just worse in some countries than others. Yes but in the Soviet style criminal codes the pre-trial detention is basically a jail sentence, you dont get a lawyer, you dont get bail hearings, you might not even see a judge for a while. Its just a way to brutalize the person detained, not as an administrative system to hold them before they see a judge/their attorney. US still don't let doctor to come to pilot Yaroshenko.
He was convinced in a court of law, he had his own defense attorney, he can employ an attorney now as well, of being a drug smuggler. He has access to medical care. He doesnt have the right to access to a Russian government doctor because he happens to be a Russian citizen.
The reason he is famous in Russia is because Russia needed an analog to Magnitsky to show at home.
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Apparently something struck home:
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This way they keep trading Russian oil without troubles?
I wonder which bank processed this deal, cant imagine any Western firm would want to risk having the US Treasury up their ass...
Cyprus remains a beacon for Russian investment as it tries to fix an economy that shrank 6 percent last year. Foreign Minister Ioannis Kasoulides told state-run RIK radio on March 18 that Cyprus opposes further sanctions.
Whether fellow skeptics including Hungary and Bulgaria would endorse a ratcheting up of sanctions in exchange for financial compensation won’t become clear until after today’s talks. Ukraine is on the agenda for the dinner session, which may run until midnight.
Its kind of funny situation for Cyprus I guess. On one hand, it had Turkey invade and occupy its territory 'to protect Turkish race' so pretty similar parallels to what's happening in Ukraine. On the other hand, Cyprus is a top Russian money laundering center. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-19/russia-s-trade-energy-might-frustrates-eu-move-for-sanctions.html
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So sorry, double post -__-
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/L6JboQU.jpg)
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