EPTUkraine Crisis - Page 362
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
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sgtnoobkilla
Australia249 Posts
On March 20 2014 22:25 -Archangel- wrote: Well since Obama said USA does not want a military conflict with Russia, Putin just might try it. That was directed at demands for intervention in Ukraine though. NATO obligations for an actual member are a different story. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 20 2014 21:44 Velr wrote: Seriously... while the "West" has its (big) flaws. Saying it's just a matter of perspective if the west or russia/china are better/worse is just downright retarded. The west is better for its citizens... Thats a simple fact, this is not even up to debate, there is like no area where China/Russia are "better". LOL. How are Europeans/US/Canadians better than guys from "East"? What factors have to be used to divide? I'm just simply curious, because in general good people are same everywhere. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
On March 20 2014 22:27 sgtnoobkilla wrote: That was directed at demands for intervention in Ukraine though. NATO obligations for an actual member are a different story. Yeah Biden said, at his visit to Poland and Lithuania recently, that NATO stands by their members in case of aggression directed towards any of them. Cant find the news article or quite atm, sry. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22704 Posts
On March 20 2014 22:34 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: LOL. How are Europeans/US/Canadians better than guys from "East"? What factors have to be used to divide? I'm just simply curious, because in general good people are same everywhere. Simple facts show standards of living in the EU/US/Canada are better then in Russia/China. Hes not talking about good people. Hes talking about how well those people are living. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 20 2014 22:38 Gorsameth wrote: Simple facts show standards of living in the EU/US/Canada are better then in Russia/China. Hes not talking about good people. Hes talking about how well those people are living. >> The west is better for its citizens. It sounds not like that, but k. But standards of living are different in different countries. You need way less money in Russia for example to live than in Europe/USA, that's it. And afaik, in China you need even less than here. *Of course, if you have flat or you're renting it*. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22704 Posts
On March 20 2014 22:41 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: >> The west is better for its citizens. It sounds not like that, but k. But standards of living are different in different countries. You need way less money in Russia for example to live than in Europe/USA, that's it. And afaik, in China you need even less than here. *Of course, if you have flat or you're renting it*. non of that makes sense... | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 20 2014 21:24 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: There are still Russian schools, Russian language exams and tons of people who can't get citizenship in Latvia at least :D But noone will touch them, srsly, chill out. I don't understand the point you're making, isn't it a good thing that children in Latvia can choose to go to a state-funded school where the language of tuition is Russian? Anyway, I don't like these people who say `chill out' - that's actually the point as to why this is so serious. Previously, being a sovereign country meant something, after Georgia and now Crimea (and probably soon E-Ukraine), we can't chill out any more. Russia is willing to occupy and annex neighbouring countries. There is no possibility of chilling out, no matter how much we would like it. The region must be militarized once more, and hard security arrangements need to be made. This will make the region poorer and also create even more tension between NATO allies and Russia. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
On March 20 2014 22:41 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: >> The west is better for its citizens. It sounds not like that, but k. But standards of living are different in different countries. You need way less money in Russia for example to live than in Europe/USA, that's it. And afaik, in China you need even less than here. *Of course, if you have flat or you're renting it*. Forget about money for a second and think about human rights individual freedoms. Sure, all countrys are still in need of improvement but when it comes to giving people the chance to choose their own path in life, not suffer from discrimination because of race/sexuality/gender/religon etc, Russia has a long way to go. Some countries are better and some are worse but if know its slowly getting better thats something atleast. Thats why its so sad to see the anti-gay laws for example. Its such a huge step backwards and so irresponsible from the government. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 20 2014 22:48 Ghanburighan wrote: I don't understand the point you're making, isn't it a good thing that children in Latvia can choose to go to a state-funded school where the language of tuition is Russian? Anyway, I don't like these people who say `chill out' - that's actually the point as to why this is so serious. Previously, being a sovereign country meant something, after Georgia and now Crimea (and probably soon E-Ukraine), we can't chill out any more. Russia is willing to occupy and annex neighbouring countries. There is no possibility of chilling out, no matter how much we would like it. The region must be militarized once more, and hard security arrangements need to be made. This will make the region poorer and also create even more tension between NATO allies and Russia. If you can just think, noone in Russia ever touched whole countries but those autonomic areas who support pro-Russian ideas in general. So i don't think, Putin will ever touch Estonia who has anti-Russian rhetorics like forever. I just laugh every day when my girlfriend from Latvia telling me how tired is she about listening about Russian occupants who will come soon, that's it. On March 20 2014 22:49 Fjodorov wrote: Forget about money for a second and think about human rights individual freedoms. Sure, all countrys are still in need of improvement but when it comes to giving people the chance to choose their own path in life, not suffer from discrimination because of race/sexuality/gender/religon etc, Russia has a long way to go. Some countries are better and some are worse but if know its slowly getting better thats something atleast. Thats why its so sad to see the anti-gay laws for example. Its such a huge step backwards and so irresponsible from the government. There is no anti-gay laws except for ban on homosexual propaganda on childs but i agree that our community seem so young that in general homosexual minorities has more than little support. But noone will touch you if you're gay or lesbian, lol except for retards like Mizulina or Milonov who absolutely hate homosexualists like we're in Medieval. In general i agree tho. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 20 2014 22:55 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: If you can just think, noone in Russia ever touched whole countries but those autonomic areas who support pro-Russian ideas in general. So i don't think, Putin will ever touch Estonia who has anti-Russian rhetorics like forever. I just laugh every day when my girlfriend from Latvia telling me how tired is she about listening about Russian occupants who will come soon, that's it. Crimea wasn't anything like South Ossetia or Abkhazia before this invasion. The Russian rhetoric already targets Ida-Virumaa in Estonia, rather than Estonia as a whole... Not to mention, no-one will care about rhetoric anymore. After an annexation, every option is considered and will need a hard power response. And that's exactly what NATO allies are currently discussing. | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On March 20 2014 22:25 -Archangel- wrote: Well since Obama said USA does not want a military conflict with Russia, Putin just might try it. Not over the Ukraine but over NATO members its a given. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 20 2014 22:59 Ghanburighan wrote: Crimea wasn't anything like South Ossetia or Abkhazia before this invasion. The Russian rhetoric already targets Ida-Virumaa in Estonia, rather than Estonia as a whole... Not to mention, no-one will care about rhetoric anymore. After an annexation, every option is considered and will need a hard power response. And that's exactly what NATO allies are currently discussing. "Better safe than sorry", i guess. Understandable tho. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:00 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: "Better safe than sorry", i guess. Understandable tho. Yeah, exactly. Especially for a country the GDP of which is 1/4 of Russia's military expenditure per year... | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
That's some new level. Someone tell them about human rights. | ||
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FatCat_13
Russian Federation117 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=50284 That's some new level. Someone tell them about human rights. Can you read Ukrainian or just google-translate? | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=50284 That's some new level. Someone tell them about human rights. That's a bit too much foreign language to go through but as I could gather, they will have a temporary law (state of emergency?) which allows people judged to be suspicious (didn't understand the conditions fully) to be detained for 30 days. The purpose is to stop provocations/sabotage or something similar. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:09 FatCat_13 wrote: Can you read Ukrainian or just google-translate? Ye, i know Ukranian pretty well. But sometimes i use translator in case i can't understand some weird words. Cute language tho, hard to speak for me. On March 20 2014 23:10 Ghanburighan wrote: That's a bit too much foreign language to go through but as I could gather, they will have a temporary law (state of emergency?) which allows people judged to be suspicious (didn't understand the conditions fully) to be detained for 30 days. The purpose is to stop provocations/sabotage or something similar. Basically they can just arrest almost everyone. It's like first step before repressions usually, that's why i'm getting worried about it. I won't be surprised if some of big politician figures get arrested as well, especially, from Eastern Ukraine. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: Ye, i know Ukranian pretty well. But sometimes i use translator in case i can't understand some weird words. Cute language tho, hard to speak for me. Basically they can just arrest almost everyone. It's like first step before repressions usually, that's why i'm getting worried about it. I won't be surprised if some of big politician figures get arrested as well, especially, from Eastern Ukraine. There were definitely some conditions, can't understand the specifics. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:30 Ghanburighan wrote: There were definitely some conditions, can't understand the specifics. I will just copypaste it. Article 2 . Order of preventive detention, the person If there are sufficient data obtained in accordance with the laws of Ukraine, which give reason to suspect a person in the preparation or commission of unlawful acts specified in Article 1 of this Act , a person may be detained for up to 30 days. Detention on the basis of a reasoned decision, approved by the chief of the department of internal affairs or security body with warrants, which the detainee met not later than 24 hours after her arrest. Preventive detention does not apply to pregnant women, women over 55 and women with children under the age of fourteen years , I disabled the group of men older than 60 years , as well as persons who have not attained the age at which criminal responsibility. Right to authorize preventive detention have to Prosecutor General of Ukraine , prosecutors Republic of Crimea , regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol , and equivalent prosecutors and their deputies , as well as prosecutors cities and districts. + This. Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , stating the facts of growth and escalating extremism and separatism in the country which threatens the national interests of the state and society , as well as the territorial integrity of Ukraine , in order to ensure peace and security in the state, enters a temporary order of preventive detention of persons involved in the preparation and crimes against foundations of Ukraine's national security , public safety and public order, against the authority of state bodies, local authorities and citizens' associations and other crimes that undermine the integrity and sovereignty of the state. | ||
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