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Ukraine Crisis - Page 361

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There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated.

New policy, please read before posting:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21393711
Mc
Profile Joined March 2010
332 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-20 09:19:57
March 20 2014 08:54 GMT
#7201
On March 20 2014 17:18 Ghanburighan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2014 17:11 Mc wrote:
I'm always sceptical of foxnews but I like what I hear
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/19/natural-gas-industry-back-congress-efforts-to-help-ukraine-says-energy-dept/
And a more in depth view:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/12/ukraine-gas-exports_n_4945352.html


Those are pretty bad analyses, though (to be expected considering both sources). The LNG deregulation isn't even intended to help Ukraine, it's crucial for a) reducing the Russian gas dependence of certain allies such as Estonia, but also other important countries like Finland, b) to pull down the price of gas on the world market. If there's more gas on the market, no matter where it is, it has a dampening effect on the prices, making the Russian budget way harder to balance.

The timing is also fine, for example, the Baltic Sea LNG terminal is still in its planning stages. Whatever positive effect the deregulation will have will follow in a few years.

I think the huffington post analysis was pretty good- it referred to all sides in the debate, and painted a good picture of the political situation in the US. Could you point out what you specifically thought was 'bad' in it?

It's quite clear that the current push for liberalizing LNG is in response to the Ukraine situation but obviously won't help Ukraine. The title of the article is "U.S. Push For Natural Gas Exports To Help Ukraine Won't Actually Help Ukraine".
5hh.gg
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
March 20 2014 09:57 GMT
#7202
On March 20 2014 17:54 Mc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2014 17:18 Ghanburighan wrote:
On March 20 2014 17:11 Mc wrote:
I'm always sceptical of foxnews but I like what I hear
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/19/natural-gas-industry-back-congress-efforts-to-help-ukraine-says-energy-dept/
And a more in depth view:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/12/ukraine-gas-exports_n_4945352.html


Those are pretty bad analyses, though (to be expected considering both sources). The LNG deregulation isn't even intended to help Ukraine, it's crucial for a) reducing the Russian gas dependence of certain allies such as Estonia, but also other important countries like Finland, b) to pull down the price of gas on the world market. If there's more gas on the market, no matter where it is, it has a dampening effect on the prices, making the Russian budget way harder to balance.

The timing is also fine, for example, the Baltic Sea LNG terminal is still in its planning stages. Whatever positive effect the deregulation will have will follow in a few years.

I think the huffington post analysis was pretty good- it referred to all sides in the debate, and painted a good picture of the political situation in the US. Could you point out what you specifically thought was 'bad' in it?

It's quite clear that the current push for liberalizing LNG is in response to the Ukraine situation but obviously won't help Ukraine. The title of the article is "U.S. Push For Natural Gas Exports To Help Ukraine Won't Actually Help Ukraine".


Quoting whoever the activist was, the issue is a red herring. And so is the article. They are trying to lobby against gas deregulation by saying that it won't help Ukraine, but as it's not meant to help Ukraine, that counterargument is dead in the water. As the entire article is basically a large exposition of that single argument, it's `bad analysis' as it's entirely detached from reality. A proper analysis will have to analyze the effect of deregulation on the Baltic sea region, Germany and other affected regions.
***
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6318 Posts
March 20 2014 10:10 GMT
#7203
I wonder why they don't invite China to join the G8 instead. They deserve to be there.
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
March 20 2014 10:19 GMT
#7204
On March 20 2014 18:57 Ghanburighan wrote:

https://twitter.com/myroslavapetsa/status/446576636163784704


Could you give the primary source?
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
Mc
Profile Joined March 2010
332 Posts
March 20 2014 10:32 GMT
#7205
On March 20 2014 18:57 Ghanburighan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2014 17:54 Mc wrote:
On March 20 2014 17:18 Ghanburighan wrote:
On March 20 2014 17:11 Mc wrote:
I'm always sceptical of foxnews but I like what I hear
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/19/natural-gas-industry-back-congress-efforts-to-help-ukraine-says-energy-dept/
And a more in depth view:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/12/ukraine-gas-exports_n_4945352.html


Those are pretty bad analyses, though (to be expected considering both sources). The LNG deregulation isn't even intended to help Ukraine, it's crucial for a) reducing the Russian gas dependence of certain allies such as Estonia, but also other important countries like Finland, b) to pull down the price of gas on the world market. If there's more gas on the market, no matter where it is, it has a dampening effect on the prices, making the Russian budget way harder to balance.

The timing is also fine, for example, the Baltic Sea LNG terminal is still in its planning stages. Whatever positive effect the deregulation will have will follow in a few years.

I think the huffington post analysis was pretty good- it referred to all sides in the debate, and painted a good picture of the political situation in the US. Could you point out what you specifically thought was 'bad' in it?

It's quite clear that the current push for liberalizing LNG is in response to the Ukraine situation but obviously won't help Ukraine. The title of the article is "U.S. Push For Natural Gas Exports To Help Ukraine Won't Actually Help Ukraine".


Quoting whoever the activist was, the issue is a red herring. And so is the article. They are trying to lobby against gas deregulation by saying that it won't help Ukraine, but as it's not meant to help Ukraine, that counterargument is dead in the water. As the entire article is basically a large exposition of that single argument, it's `bad analysis' as it's entirely detached from reality. A proper analysis will have to analyze the effect of deregulation on the Baltic sea region, Germany and other affected regions.
***
https://twitter.com/myroslavapetsa/status/446576636163784704


Seriously, read the article again. It's simply just describing the state of US politics around the issue of LNG and saying that although it is brought up in the context of Ukraine, that it won't help the current Ukranian government. It will mostly benefit Europe as a whole, waning it off of Russian gas (some countries more NATO allies, some countries less -Ukraine). The article supports that argument.

Nowhere in the article do they 'lobby' against deregulation, if something the article seems to be for it. For example:
"Studies by independent energy experts and the Energy Department have found little evidence that gas exports would increase the domestic gas price."

I also would like to learn more on how it would effect Baltic states. The article doesn't mention that, and it can't mention everything.
5hh.gg
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-20 10:38:32
March 20 2014 10:37 GMT
#7206
Russia appears to have escalated the conflict further:




***

Regarding LNG in the Baltic Sea region (this includes Scandinavia and Poland, btw), here's an opinion piece pushing the issue. Follow the links within.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
whiteLotus
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
1833 Posts
March 20 2014 11:25 GMT
#7207
LMAO russia is now concerned about russian speaking people in Estonia and how they are trying to lower the amount of people speaking in russian (wat)

See ya Baltics , hope you havent forgot russian language :\
The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
March 20 2014 11:27 GMT
#7208
^ Concur, but nothing will happen soon. But we have considered ourselves to be on the Russian hit-list since 2008.

More words on the Mistral deal. Not yet suspended, but definitely being considered.

Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
March 20 2014 11:34 GMT
#7209
On March 20 2014 20:27 Ghanburighan wrote:
^ Concur, but nothing will happen soon. But we have considered ourselves to be on the Russian hit-list since 2008.

More words on the Mistral deal. Not yet suspended, but definitely being considered.

https://twitter.com/FHeisbourg/status/446607092146003968

I hope you used that time to build a proper military
DaCruise
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark2457 Posts
March 20 2014 12:03 GMT
#7210
On March 20 2014 19:10 RvB wrote:
I wonder why they don't invite China to join the G8 instead. They deserve to be there.


China doesnt deserve shit. They are much worse than Russia.
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-20 12:26:55
March 20 2014 12:24 GMT
#7211
On March 20 2014 20:25 whiteLotus wrote:
LMAO russia is now concerned about russian speaking people in Estonia and how they are trying to lower the amount of people speaking in russian (wat)

See ya Baltics , hope you havent forgot russian language :\


There are still Russian schools, Russian language exams and tons of people who can't get citizenship in Latvia at least :D
But noone will touch them, srsly, chill out.

LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6318 Posts
March 20 2014 12:33 GMT
#7212
On March 20 2014 21:03 DaCruise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2014 19:10 RvB wrote:
I wonder why they don't invite China to join the G8 instead. They deserve to be there.


China doesnt deserve shit. They are much worse than Russia.

Well I meant economically since the G8 is originally a group for important industrial countries.
zezamer
Profile Joined March 2011
Finland5701 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-20 12:36:08
March 20 2014 12:35 GMT
#7213
On March 20 2014 21:03 DaCruise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2014 19:10 RvB wrote:
I wonder why they don't invite China to join the G8 instead. They deserve to be there.


China doesnt deserve shit. They are much worse than Russia.

There's no good here. West, China, Russia, same shit, who's the worst is just matter of perspective....

China's so important economically that it should be in G8
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10953 Posts
March 20 2014 12:44 GMT
#7214
Seriously... while the "West" has its (big) flaws.
Saying it's just a matter of perspective if the west or russia/china are better/worse is just downright retarded. The west is better for its citizens... Thats a simple fact, this is not even up to debate, there is like no area where China/Russia are "better".
Saumure
Profile Joined February 2012
France404 Posts
March 20 2014 12:44 GMT
#7215
So... how many people did Russia kill in Ukraine up until now?
Acertos
Profile Joined February 2012
France852 Posts
March 20 2014 12:47 GMT
#7216
On March 20 2014 21:35 zezamer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2014 21:03 DaCruise wrote:
On March 20 2014 19:10 RvB wrote:
I wonder why they don't invite China to join the G8 instead. They deserve to be there.


China doesnt deserve shit. They are much worse than Russia.

There's no good here. West, China, Russia, same shit, who's the worst is just matter of perspective....

China's so important economically that it should be in G8

No, it's a matter of common sense, one wants to protect its interests and the liberal model then defend human rights and global peace, the other has only economic growth in its head hence the most massive social dumping history has known (+ environmental issues + human rights issues), and the last wants to go back to the Middle Age and expand its territory with again no regards for anything (be it economy or human rights).
The choice is pretty easy to make, I don't like our neo-liberal and capitalistic model but I won't put on the same level the US and Russia or China, these ones are rly shitty politicaly and have been for yrs.
Acertos
Profile Joined February 2012
France852 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-20 12:49:59
March 20 2014 12:49 GMT
#7217
On March 20 2014 21:44 Saumure wrote:
So... how many people did Russia kill in Ukraine up until now?

It's not a matter of killing but of sovereinity, think before posting.
edit : and perhaps soon enough it will be about killing

User was temp banned for this post.
Saumure
Profile Joined February 2012
France404 Posts
March 20 2014 13:11 GMT
#7218
On March 20 2014 21:49 Acertos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2014 21:44 Saumure wrote:
So... how many people did Russia kill in Ukraine up until now?

It's not a matter of killing but of sovereinity, think before posting.
edit : and perhaps soon enough it will be about killing

I thought about it, and noticed i didn't know how much were killed. Perhaps you whould think a little yourself...
sgtnoobkilla
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia249 Posts
March 20 2014 13:22 GMT
#7219
On March 20 2014 21:44 Saumure wrote:
So... how many people did Russia kill in Ukraine up until now?

But General Secre-...President Putin and Comrade Lavrov say those "polite people" definitely aren't Russians, so we have to believe them!

On March 20 2014 20:25 whiteLotus wrote:
See ya Baltics , hope you havent forgot russian language :\

He would have to really lose all of his marbles if he tried that rubbish with Estonia. I'm pretty sure even Putin wouldn't dare to take a NATO member head-on like that. As for the rest of Ukraine however...
Don't play with your food unless it plays with you first.
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
March 20 2014 13:25 GMT
#7220
On March 20 2014 22:22 sgtnoobkilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2014 21:44 Saumure wrote:
So... how many people did Russia kill in Ukraine up until now?

But General Secre-...President Putin and Comrade Lavrov say those "polite people" definitely aren't Russians, so we have to believe them!

Show nested quote +
On March 20 2014 20:25 whiteLotus wrote:
See ya Baltics , hope you havent forgot russian language :\

He would have to really lose all of his marbles if he tried that rubbish with Estonia. I'm pretty sure even Putin wouldn't dare to take a NATO member head-on like that. As for the rest of Ukraine however...

Well since Obama said USA does not want a military conflict with Russia, Putin just might try it.
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