• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:08
CEST 06:08
KST 13:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy8uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event17Serral wins EWC 202549Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments7[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Is there a way to see if 2 accounts=1 person? uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather
Brood War
General
ASL20 Pre-season Tier List ranking! ASL 20 HYPE VIDEO! BW AKA finder tool BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches KCM 2025 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI The year 2050
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 622 users

Ukraine Crisis - Page 248

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 246 247 248 249 250 577 Next
There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated.

New policy, please read before posting:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21393711
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6286 Posts
March 08 2014 13:56 GMT
#4941
On March 08 2014 22:25 Ghanburighan wrote:
Detailed opinion piece by Condi

You mean the same Condoleezza Rice that served eight years as the Bush administrations security adviser?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice#Iraq
Rice was a proponent of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. After Iraq delivered its declaration of weapons of mass destruction to the United Nations on December 8, 2002, Rice wrote an editorial for The New York Times entitled "Why We Know Iraq Is Lying".[54]

lol, just lol
"If only Kircheis were here" - Everyone
followZeRoX
Profile Joined March 2011
Serbia1449 Posts
March 08 2014 14:04 GMT
#4942
Someone is citing Mrs.Rice hahaha, omg.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 14:48:39
March 08 2014 14:46 GMT
#4943
Why would you care about Condi's policies in this context, she was in meetings with relevant parties as Secretary of state so she can report details no-one else can. Read the article, it has interesting background information.

***
OSCE (OSCE)

Military assessment visitors from OSCE States turned back from Crimea checkpoint at Armyans'k. Warning shots fired. Everyone safe. #Ukraine




4:07 PM Mar 8th via Twitter for iPhone
http://twitter.com/OSCE/status/442300671740870656

***

Kremlinology by the NYT:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/world/europe/russias-move-into-ukraine-said-to-be-born-in-shadows.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&referrer=
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 15:12:25
March 08 2014 14:57 GMT
#4944
On March 08 2014 23:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
Why would you care about Condi's policies in this context, she was in meetings with relevant parties as Secretary of state so she can report details no-one else can. Read the article, it has interesting background information.

***
OSCE (OSCE)

Military assessment visitors from OSCE States turned back from Crimea checkpoint at Armyans'k. Warning shots fired. Everyone safe. #Ukraine




4:07 PM Mar 8th via Twitter for iPhone
http://twitter.com/OSCE/status/442300671740870656

***

Kremlinology by the NYT:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/world/europe/russias-move-into-ukraine-said-to-be-born-in-shadows.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&referrer=


Not really. As soon as you read the name Condi Rice in the authorship, you pretty much knew what her talking points were. They are as full of bland and mediocre diagnoses on Russian foreign policy as they ever were. Her gossip about her conversations with Lavrov in 2008 are not to be taken at face value.

Her preamble alone illustrates how aloof she is from reality: Yanukovych was not Putin's "man", and relations between them had been strained for years prior to the outbreak of the protests. When Putin signaled his readiness to dump Yanukovych and support new leadership in the Ukraine, he was more or less sincere.

The optimal line to take now is not to force a Russian puppet into the Ukrainian leadership, but to make sure that the interests of the anti-EU/Russian-leaning portions of the country are duly represented in a new government. Through this means, the Russians can block further Ukrainian association with the EU/NATO while upholding the principle of "democratic legitimacy"
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
March 08 2014 15:07 GMT
#4945
OSCE (OSCE)

Media freedom under siege in Crimea, Ukraine, says OSCE rep Mijatovic (.@OSCE_RFoM)- condemns closure of TV channels, attacks on journalists

4:49 PM Mar 8th via web
http://twitter.com/OSCE/status/442311050814566400
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9200 Posts
March 08 2014 15:16 GMT
#4946
Yeah people should stop calling Yanukovich a Russian puppet. He was stealing for himself and Russians didn't really like him.
You're now breathing manually
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18828 Posts
March 08 2014 15:20 GMT
#4947
That does not change the fact that Yanukovich was the one who opted for Putin's economic deal in spite of support for the EU one.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
radiatoren
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Denmark1907 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 15:41:52
March 08 2014 15:23 GMT
#4948
On March 08 2014 23:57 MoltkeWarding wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 23:46 Ghanburighan wrote:
Why would you care about Condi's policies in this context, she was in meetings with relevant parties as Secretary of state so she can report details no-one else can. Read the article, it has interesting background information.

***
OSCE (OSCE)

Military assessment visitors from OSCE States turned back from Crimea checkpoint at Armyans'k. Warning shots fired. Everyone safe. #Ukraine




4:07 PM Mar 8th via Twitter for iPhone
http://twitter.com/OSCE/status/442300671740870656

***

Kremlinology by the NYT:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/world/europe/russias-move-into-ukraine-said-to-be-born-in-shadows.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&referrer=


Not really. As soon as you read the name Condi Rice in the authorship, you pretty much knew what her talking points were. They are as full of bland and mediocre diagnoses on Russian foreign policy as they ever were. Her gossip about her conversations with Lavrov in 2008 are not to be taken at face value.

Her preamble alone illustrates how aloof she is from reality: Yanukovych was not Putin's "man", and relations between them had been strained for years prior to the outbreak of the protests. When Putin signaled his readiness to dump Yanukovych and support new leadership in the Ukraine, he was more or less sincere.

I found the analysis pretty bland too, and she has a torn reputation to begin with. When it comes to Yanukovych I think it is obvious that Yanukovych was not as popular as she thinks. However a readiness to dump him would entail getting someone positionend to follow in his footsteps. If I look at ukrainian politics, I see a lot of different degrees of nationalists in western Ukraine who will make the ukrainian import of workers and goods to Moscow harder and generally are a no-go for him. There are very few obvious picks from eastern Ukraine, since many of them are from the spintered Party of Regions. The best and only pick from east would probably be the chokolade king, but he is a moderate politically and evil tongues (RT) will know that he supported Right Sector during the dethronement of Yanukovych, so Kremlins opinion of him seems clear.

Edit: nvm
Repeat before me
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
March 08 2014 15:40 GMT
#4949
On March 09 2014 00:20 farvacola wrote:
That does not change the fact that Yanukovich was the one who opted for Putin's economic deal in spite of support for the EU one.

Gotta pick the thing that gives you more money. His aim was money after all.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
March 08 2014 15:42 GMT
#4950
given what we've seen yanukovich was most likely personally bribed by russia for the deal.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
March 08 2014 15:49 GMT
#4951
On March 09 2014 00:20 farvacola wrote:
That does not change the fact that Yanukovich was the one who opted for Putin's economic deal in spite of support for the EU one.


When Yanukovych jettisoned the Vilnius accords in November, polling in the Ukraine showed that support was split on the question: https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/poll-ukrainian-public-split-over-eu-customs-union-options-332470.html

Furthermore, the "deal" Putin offered Yanukovych was the real failure of Russian diplomacy, for its intention was not only to secure the impression that Yanukovych made the rational decision, but that Russia was a more generous benefactor than the West. Instead, it entrenched within the minds in the opposition the impression that Putin was drawing Ukraine into his orbit, and that Yanukovych in his piligrimage to Moscow, had committed himself to joining the Russian Customs Union, a measure which was repeatedly denied by Yanukovych.

However, the illusion drawn by the West that the triumph of Maidan demonstrates that Ukrainians largely "support the EU" is precisely the line of argument the Russians have been attacking: "support" cannot be determined by who owns the streets. What was achieved by rioters in Maidan was the expressed will of the vocal minority, at the expense of the silent majority. The only way to make sure of the government's democratic legitimacy is proper elections which ensures that the voices of the other side are properly expressed. Once expressed, the Ukraine will fall back into its split orientation, which will mean that in all probability, the Ukraine will be kept out of the EU association agreement unless Russia is dealt in on the deal.
Imola
Profile Joined December 2012
Russian Federation24 Posts
March 08 2014 15:59 GMT
#4952
Poor military observants, they under such stress. Its hard just to write in twitter that they cant do anything. Guess in 1998 they done such great job, its still rings.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 16:01:53
March 08 2014 16:01 GMT
#4953
The purported splitness of the Ukraine remains to be given proper evidence from either side of the fence.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
March 08 2014 16:12 GMT
#4954
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
March 08 2014 16:18 GMT
#4955
Ultimately, whether the split is 50-50 or 60-40 or 40-60 does not matter. What matters is which faction controls the pulpit, and whether they can block the opposition from issuing their arguments. Once they have a monopoly on the expression of opinion, they can claim to speak in the name of the "people."

In the past few weeks we have heard one canned line after another about the poor "people" of the Ukraine. Everyone: the Russians, the provisional government, Yanukovych in exile, Western News anchors, are with "the people." But the "people" for all concerned is merely a personalised abstraction through which their own wishful thinking is filtered. "Evidence" in that sense is rather a rhetorical tool than a epistmeological one.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 16:31:23
March 08 2014 16:22 GMT
#4956


Also reports of Russian troops capturing new areas.

Edit: That last bit:


Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 16:27:01
March 08 2014 16:26 GMT
#4957
Such is the case with many concepts in IR and governance; that does not change the fact that any assurances as to the future national direction of the Ukranian people are almost certainly not worth the breath that give them air.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
March 08 2014 16:29 GMT
#4958
They are really invading the rest of Ukraine ?
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
March 08 2014 16:33 GMT
#4959
On March 09 2014 01:29 Faust852 wrote:
They are really invading the rest of Ukraine ?


Only a pessimist would say that. But I have noticed that in the last week, pessimism is a pretty accurate methodology for predicting Russia's next act.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11519 Posts
March 08 2014 16:34 GMT
#4960
This is getting pretty scary. Especially considering how it resembles certain historical events.
Prev 1 246 247 248 249 250 577 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 321
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 595
ggaemo 384
Leta 274
Noble 44
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm140
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
C9.Mang0510
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor130
Other Games
tarik_tv11815
summit1g6736
JimRising 720
WinterStarcraft605
ViBE192
Livibee119
Trikslyr45
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1372
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH209
• practicex 46
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 36
• Azhi_Dahaki8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1654
Upcoming Events
Online Event
6h 52m
SC Evo League
7h 52m
Online Event
8h 52m
OSC
8h 52m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
10h 52m
CSO Contender
12h 52m
[BSL 2025] Weekly
13h 52m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 5h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 6h
SC Evo League
1d 7h
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 10h
BSL Team Wars
1d 14h
Team Dewalt vs Team Bonyth
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Sharp vs Ample
Larva vs Stork
Wardi Open
2 days
RotterdaM Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Mini vs TBD
Soma vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-08-13
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.