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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 08 2014 10:53 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 10:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 09:24 Cheerio wrote:On March 08 2014 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 07:06 Ghanburighan wrote:
Different location:
On other news:
Lol, listening to Garry Kasparov is probably last thing in this world that you have to do :D I have big respect for his as chess player but not as politician. Basically it's law not about annexy - it sounds like "If Crimea after referendum chooses Russia, then we can get them as subject". And there are already plans to subside it, so basically Crimea will be like another Tyva or Nothern Caucasus republics - donated regions. Because of it people in Moscow don't like this idea because we basically pay for it -.- Moscow people don't pay for anything, it's the oil and gas-rich regions of Russia who do. Would be good for them if they realized it and decided to have an independence referendum. You kidding me? Compare taxes which people pay in Moscow and in oil/gas regions. Compare population. And then speak. ... what's your point? That oil and gas-rich regions would not be better off economically if they seperated themselves from Russia? And you made that conclusion on the fact that Moscow pays a lot of taxes? That's just hilarious.
They won't be better off economically and you know it. It's same to say that if Russia will transfer all equipment from Donbass, Ukraine will exploit it better.
And you really need to compare taxes in Moscow, other big cities, towns like Salehard and donated regions.
On March 08 2014 10:18 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 10:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 10:07 Sub40APM wrote:On March 08 2014 10:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 09:24 Cheerio wrote:On March 08 2014 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Lol, listening to Garry Kasparov is probably last thing in this world that you have to do :D I have big respect for his as chess player but not as politician. Basically it's law not about annexy - it sounds like "If Crimea after referendum chooses Russia, then we can get them as subject". And there are already plans to subside it, so basically Crimea will be like another Tyva or Nothern Caucasus republics - donated regions. Because of it people in Moscow don't like this idea because we basically pay for it -.- Moscow people don't pay for anything, it's the oil and gas-rich regions of Russia who do. Would be good for them if they realized it and decided to have an independence referendum. You kidding me? Compare taxes which people pay in Moscow and in oil/gas regions. Compare population. And then speak. No offense but it's ridiculous to hear from people from other country who have no idea and think that elite who privatised oil/gas production pay for anything instead of getting that money into offshores. Gazprom / Rosneft have their HQ in Moscow and that is where their point of sales are recorded for tax purposes. I dont think its ridiculous to say that places like Tyumen or Tatarstan get screwed over because the income that they generate from the oil/gas on their lands is registered as coming from Moscow. But its true, a lot of oligarchs pay almost no tax. Rusal has paid 4-9% on its income. But whose fault it is, Derepeksas or mighty Putin? Maybe some of those troops in Crimea 'protecting against fascism' should go find your missing tax money in London instead no? He's Deripaska btw :D You ask me to get troops back? I basically don't care at all, what will they do there until there is no victims and other stuff. Sources from every side tend to overhype stuff which is happening there anyway and everyone has to chill out before 16th March. After it we will laugh how USA and EU will say how referendum is illegal and other shit while they did same with Kosovo before. And everything will stop after it. Peace. Over-hype what? What are the Russian occupation troops going to do to all the Ukrainian troops heroically not surrendering or letting themselves get provoked? This isnt going to end on March 16.
After March 16 it won't be part of Ukraine just. And troops won't be heroically surrendering because they will be considered as invaders.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
western capital has basically taken their ball and gone home, and the oil and gas leverage is, while currently effective, a target of strategic replacement by other sources within a handful of years.
don't see any gains by putin lol
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
all hail the glorious leader.
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On March 08 2014 11:12 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
After March 16 it won't be part of Ukraine just. And troops won't be heroically surrendering because they will be considered as invaders.
Ya, so they will be killed. The crisis isnt ending on March 16.
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Actually if you remember, the new PM of Crimea, the guy who got 4% of the vote last election, already said the vote on March 16 didn't matter, they'd already voted to join Russia. The 16th was just to let the people show they agreed with him.
Edit: So I guess according to him they're already invaders...
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The idea that the newly formed Ukranian government and the resistance movement are compose of benign Nationalists, is pretty hilarious. It's like the anti-Putin bias shrouding ones judgment. The same goes for the other end. Meanwhile, in reality, both parties are to be blamed and nothing good will come of the situation. The last thing the US should do is get involved, but hey, the CIA can't foment enough 'crisis' to take advantage of...As for US media...goddamn man, it's like 1962 all over again with their hysteria.
Anyways, Svoboda and Right Sector are most definitely Nazi sympathizers. There's also no doubt that quite a few top Government seats in the new Government are manned by Svoboda and Right Sector. This is no 'democratic' uprising just like the non-sense Arab Spring wasn't either. These folks aren't William Wallace or George Washington. They're more like Napoleon and Hitler. Counter-revolutionaries seeking power to institute their regimented and ordered society based on either militaristic, racial, or theocratic ideology. Authoritarians the lot. It's unfortunate, but hey, the 21st Century is not getting off to any better start than the 20th... ._.
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On March 08 2014 11:12 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 10:53 Cheerio wrote:On March 08 2014 10:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 09:24 Cheerio wrote:On March 08 2014 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Lol, listening to Garry Kasparov is probably last thing in this world that you have to do :D I have big respect for his as chess player but not as politician. Basically it's law not about annexy - it sounds like "If Crimea after referendum chooses Russia, then we can get them as subject". And there are already plans to subside it, so basically Crimea will be like another Tyva or Nothern Caucasus republics - donated regions. Because of it people in Moscow don't like this idea because we basically pay for it -.- Moscow people don't pay for anything, it's the oil and gas-rich regions of Russia who do. Would be good for them if they realized it and decided to have an independence referendum. You kidding me? Compare taxes which people pay in Moscow and in oil/gas regions. Compare population. And then speak. ... what's your point? That oil and gas-rich regions would not be better off economically if they seperated themselves from Russia? And you made that conclusion on the fact that Moscow pays a lot of taxes? That's just hilarious. They won't be better off economically and you know it. It's same to say that if Russia will transfer all equipment from Donbass, Ukraine will exploit it better. And you really need to compare taxes in Moscow, other big cities, towns like Salehard and donated regions. Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 10:18 Sub40APM wrote:On March 08 2014 10:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 10:07 Sub40APM wrote:On March 08 2014 10:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 09:24 Cheerio wrote:On March 08 2014 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Lol, listening to Garry Kasparov is probably last thing in this world that you have to do :D I have big respect for his as chess player but not as politician. Basically it's law not about annexy - it sounds like "If Crimea after referendum chooses Russia, then we can get them as subject". And there are already plans to subside it, so basically Crimea will be like another Tyva or Nothern Caucasus republics - donated regions. Because of it people in Moscow don't like this idea because we basically pay for it -.- Moscow people don't pay for anything, it's the oil and gas-rich regions of Russia who do. Would be good for them if they realized it and decided to have an independence referendum. You kidding me? Compare taxes which people pay in Moscow and in oil/gas regions. Compare population. And then speak. No offense but it's ridiculous to hear from people from other country who have no idea and think that elite who privatised oil/gas production pay for anything instead of getting that money into offshores. Gazprom / Rosneft have their HQ in Moscow and that is where their point of sales are recorded for tax purposes. I dont think its ridiculous to say that places like Tyumen or Tatarstan get screwed over because the income that they generate from the oil/gas on their lands is registered as coming from Moscow. But its true, a lot of oligarchs pay almost no tax. Rusal has paid 4-9% on its income. But whose fault it is, Derepeksas or mighty Putin? Maybe some of those troops in Crimea 'protecting against fascism' should go find your missing tax money in London instead no? He's Deripaska btw :D You ask me to get troops back? I basically don't care at all, what will they do there until there is no victims and other stuff. Sources from every side tend to overhype stuff which is happening there anyway and everyone has to chill out before 16th March. After it we will laugh how USA and EU will say how referendum is illegal and other shit while they did same with Kosovo before. And everything will stop after it. Peace. Over-hype what? What are the Russian occupation troops going to do to all the Ukrainian troops heroically not surrendering or letting themselves get provoked? This isnt going to end on March 16. After March 16 it won't be part of Ukraine just. And troops won't be heroically surrendering because they will be considered as invaders.
Crimean authorities already considers Crimea part of Russia and the march 16 vote is purely for show. They have already called Ukrainian soldiers "third country occupants". March 16 will change absolutely nothing in that regard except serve as a theater for the russian people.
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The United States practically runs a big chunk of the world, and it imports a lot more than it exports haha! To say that trade is the only way to ensure imperial leverage is absurd. By your logic, the US would be weaker than some other countries haha!
Yeah, works brilliant, right? Could you tell me the story of how awesome that works the next time you near-default? Would be interesting. The US is getting weaker. "Haha".
PS: yeah, bullying alot smaller countries isn't what i call "leverage".
Cute btw, how you (native english speaker) try to flame me and my reading comprehension, yet you write this:
Your myth that EU came up with this brilliant plan to slowly reduce reliance on foreign energy which in turn would make Russia asplode if they weren't able to sell as much fuel a decade or two down the line is rather fantastical.
Because i wrote this:
Would you say that this crisis could make russia lose this status, because the EU will now actively reach out (with priority i mean) to get away from russian energy - and as soon as that will happen..?
Let me help you, american friend: i was asking a question. To be more precise, i was asking a question to someone who contributes highest quality content, because i was interested in his opinion. So much for reading comprehension, "haha".
We will see what will happen next.
PS: http://www.euractiv.com/node/188483/reference < good read.
Gnite.
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http://bigstory.ap.org/article/armed-men-confiscate-ap-equipment-crimea
IMFEROPOL, Ukraine (AP) — Armed men in Crimea's capital city have confiscated equipment from Associated Press employees and contractors working there.
AP's Global Media Services, a division of the news cooperative that provides services to broadcasters, said a crew was setting up a satellite uplink for a live camera position above a Simferopol restaurant Thursday. They were approached by unarmed men who asked them to turn off their broadcast lights and prevented them from leaving the building.
Two other men then came and took photos of AP's equipment, including protective jackets, and accused the crew of being spies.
Later, armed men showed up and ordered the crew to put their hands against the wall while they cut cables and took the equipment away. Some of the equipment has been recovered, but much is still missing. The contractors and employees were kept at the building for about two hours before being released unharmed.
Lucky for the AP guys actually, at least now they cant be accused under Russian laws of fomenting anti-Russian attitudes.
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On March 08 2014 11:26 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 11:12 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
After March 16 it won't be part of Ukraine just. And troops won't be heroically surrendering because they will be considered as invaders.
Ya, so they will be killed. The crisis isnt ending on March 16.
No, they won't be killed. If they show anywhere near the prudence that they have been showing so far, they will leave Crimea.
On March 08 2014 11:33 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +The United States practically runs a big chunk of the world, and it imports a lot more than it exports haha! To say that trade is the only way to ensure imperial leverage is absurd. By your logic, the US would be weaker than some other countries haha!
Yeah, works brilliant, right? Could you tell me the story of how awesome that works the next time you near-default? Would be interesting. The US is getting weaker. "Haha". PS: yeah, bullying alot smaller countries isn't what i call "leverage". Cute btw, how you (native english speaker) try to flame me and my reading comprehension, yet you write this: Show nested quote +Your myth that EU came up with this brilliant plan to slowly reduce reliance on foreign energy which in turn would make Russia asplode if they weren't able to sell as much fuel a decade or two down the line is rather fantastical. Because i wrote this: Show nested quote +Would you say that this crisis could make russia lose this status, because the EU will now actively reach out (with priority i mean) to get away from russian energy - and as soon as that will happen..? Let me help you, american friend: i was asking a question. To be more precise, i was asking a question to someone who contributes highest quality content, because i was interested in his opinion. So much for reading comprehension, "haha". We will see what will happen next. PS: http://www.euractiv.com/node/188483/reference < good read. Gnite.
Ah I see you are upset. Now you attack the United States as well haha! I hate to break it to you but the US is very stable. As for the US getting weaker, I don't know about that. Except the clusterfuck that was Iraq, we haven't lost much ground yet. Defaulting? I highly doubt that will happen.
Originally, you were asking if Russia lose its status as a powerful nation and as a buffer against the advances of other nation's (per Moltke's post) by the EU diminishing dependence on Russian oil (which isn't something new). My reply was attesting that such a result would be an unrealistic consequence of this.
Good link. It only proves that EU has been trying to veer from Russian fuels for a long time.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
russia can 'adapt' by suffering through it. long suffering is kind of bad though. there's no glory in that.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 08 2014 11:32 radiatoren wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 11:12 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 10:53 Cheerio wrote:On March 08 2014 10:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 09:24 Cheerio wrote:On March 08 2014 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Lol, listening to Garry Kasparov is probably last thing in this world that you have to do :D I have big respect for his as chess player but not as politician. Basically it's law not about annexy - it sounds like "If Crimea after referendum chooses Russia, then we can get them as subject". And there are already plans to subside it, so basically Crimea will be like another Tyva or Nothern Caucasus republics - donated regions. Because of it people in Moscow don't like this idea because we basically pay for it -.- Moscow people don't pay for anything, it's the oil and gas-rich regions of Russia who do. Would be good for them if they realized it and decided to have an independence referendum. You kidding me? Compare taxes which people pay in Moscow and in oil/gas regions. Compare population. And then speak. ... what's your point? That oil and gas-rich regions would not be better off economically if they seperated themselves from Russia? And you made that conclusion on the fact that Moscow pays a lot of taxes? That's just hilarious. They won't be better off economically and you know it. It's same to say that if Russia will transfer all equipment from Donbass, Ukraine will exploit it better. And you really need to compare taxes in Moscow, other big cities, towns like Salehard and donated regions. On March 08 2014 10:18 Sub40APM wrote:On March 08 2014 10:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 10:07 Sub40APM wrote:On March 08 2014 10:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 09:24 Cheerio wrote:On March 08 2014 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Lol, listening to Garry Kasparov is probably last thing in this world that you have to do :D I have big respect for his as chess player but not as politician. Basically it's law not about annexy - it sounds like "If Crimea after referendum chooses Russia, then we can get them as subject". And there are already plans to subside it, so basically Crimea will be like another Tyva or Nothern Caucasus republics - donated regions. Because of it people in Moscow don't like this idea because we basically pay for it -.- Moscow people don't pay for anything, it's the oil and gas-rich regions of Russia who do. Would be good for them if they realized it and decided to have an independence referendum. You kidding me? Compare taxes which people pay in Moscow and in oil/gas regions. Compare population. And then speak. No offense but it's ridiculous to hear from people from other country who have no idea and think that elite who privatised oil/gas production pay for anything instead of getting that money into offshores. Gazprom / Rosneft have their HQ in Moscow and that is where their point of sales are recorded for tax purposes. I dont think its ridiculous to say that places like Tyumen or Tatarstan get screwed over because the income that they generate from the oil/gas on their lands is registered as coming from Moscow. But its true, a lot of oligarchs pay almost no tax. Rusal has paid 4-9% on its income. But whose fault it is, Derepeksas or mighty Putin? Maybe some of those troops in Crimea 'protecting against fascism' should go find your missing tax money in London instead no? He's Deripaska btw :D You ask me to get troops back? I basically don't care at all, what will they do there until there is no victims and other stuff. Sources from every side tend to overhype stuff which is happening there anyway and everyone has to chill out before 16th March. After it we will laugh how USA and EU will say how referendum is illegal and other shit while they did same with Kosovo before. And everything will stop after it. Peace. Over-hype what? What are the Russian occupation troops going to do to all the Ukrainian troops heroically not surrendering or letting themselves get provoked? This isnt going to end on March 16. After March 16 it won't be part of Ukraine just. And troops won't be heroically surrendering because they will be considered as invaders. Crimean authorities already considers Crimea part of Russia and the march 16 vote is purely for show. They have already called Ukrainian soldiers "third country occupants". March 16 will change absolutely nothing in that regard except serve as a theater for the russian people.
Those formalities are important. Rada for example doesn't want to announce impeachment to Yanukovich, even if he fled from country.
There was referendum of saving USSR in 17th March 1991. 78% said yes, we have to save it and what happened? So, at least some formalities.
G'night, sleep well dudes. And let peace be in the world forever.
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On March 08 2014 11:36 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 11:26 Sub40APM wrote:On March 08 2014 11:12 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
After March 16 it won't be part of Ukraine just. And troops won't be heroically surrendering because they will be considered as invaders.
Ya, so they will be killed. The crisis isnt ending on March 16. No, they won't be killed. If they show anywhere near the prudence that they have been showing so far, they will leave Crimea.
Huh? They have been under intense pressure to either surrender or 'join' the Crimean 'self defense force' and they rejected either. The only way they are being moved off those bases is in body bags.
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On March 08 2014 09:46 farvacola wrote:
"Arguably by far"
Yeah, ok.
We all know it's true
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On March 08 2014 11:38 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 11:32 radiatoren wrote:On March 08 2014 11:12 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 10:53 Cheerio wrote:On March 08 2014 10:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 09:24 Cheerio wrote:On March 08 2014 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Lol, listening to Garry Kasparov is probably last thing in this world that you have to do :D I have big respect for his as chess player but not as politician. Basically it's law not about annexy - it sounds like "If Crimea after referendum chooses Russia, then we can get them as subject". And there are already plans to subside it, so basically Crimea will be like another Tyva or Nothern Caucasus republics - donated regions. Because of it people in Moscow don't like this idea because we basically pay for it -.- Moscow people don't pay for anything, it's the oil and gas-rich regions of Russia who do. Would be good for them if they realized it and decided to have an independence referendum. You kidding me? Compare taxes which people pay in Moscow and in oil/gas regions. Compare population. And then speak. ... what's your point? That oil and gas-rich regions would not be better off economically if they seperated themselves from Russia? And you made that conclusion on the fact that Moscow pays a lot of taxes? That's just hilarious. They won't be better off economically and you know it. It's same to say that if Russia will transfer all equipment from Donbass, Ukraine will exploit it better. And you really need to compare taxes in Moscow, other big cities, towns like Salehard and donated regions. On March 08 2014 10:18 Sub40APM wrote:On March 08 2014 10:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 10:07 Sub40APM wrote:On March 08 2014 10:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 08 2014 09:24 Cheerio wrote:On March 08 2014 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Lol, listening to Garry Kasparov is probably last thing in this world that you have to do :D I have big respect for his as chess player but not as politician. Basically it's law not about annexy - it sounds like "If Crimea after referendum chooses Russia, then we can get them as subject". And there are already plans to subside it, so basically Crimea will be like another Tyva or Nothern Caucasus republics - donated regions. Because of it people in Moscow don't like this idea because we basically pay for it -.- Moscow people don't pay for anything, it's the oil and gas-rich regions of Russia who do. Would be good for them if they realized it and decided to have an independence referendum. You kidding me? Compare taxes which people pay in Moscow and in oil/gas regions. Compare population. And then speak. No offense but it's ridiculous to hear from people from other country who have no idea and think that elite who privatised oil/gas production pay for anything instead of getting that money into offshores. Gazprom / Rosneft have their HQ in Moscow and that is where their point of sales are recorded for tax purposes. I dont think its ridiculous to say that places like Tyumen or Tatarstan get screwed over because the income that they generate from the oil/gas on their lands is registered as coming from Moscow. But its true, a lot of oligarchs pay almost no tax. Rusal has paid 4-9% on its income. But whose fault it is, Derepeksas or mighty Putin? Maybe some of those troops in Crimea 'protecting against fascism' should go find your missing tax money in London instead no? He's Deripaska btw :D You ask me to get troops back? I basically don't care at all, what will they do there until there is no victims and other stuff. Sources from every side tend to overhype stuff which is happening there anyway and everyone has to chill out before 16th March. After it we will laugh how USA and EU will say how referendum is illegal and other shit while they did same with Kosovo before. And everything will stop after it. Peace. Over-hype what? What are the Russian occupation troops going to do to all the Ukrainian troops heroically not surrendering or letting themselves get provoked? This isnt going to end on March 16. After March 16 it won't be part of Ukraine just. And troops won't be heroically surrendering because they will be considered as invaders. Crimean authorities already considers Crimea part of Russia and the march 16 vote is purely for show. They have already called Ukrainian soldiers "third country occupants". March 16 will change absolutely nothing in that regard except serve as a theater for the russian people. Those formalities are important. Rada for example doesn't want to announce impeachment to Yanukovich, even if he fled from country. There was referendum of saving USSR in 17th March 1991. 78% said yes, we have to save it and what happened? So, at least some formalities.
I am not sure what you are arguing for here? Wasting money on holding worthless elections is not something to strive for. I don't see the value in empty symbolism with low/no democratic value neither in USSR nor Crimea.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
on the russian side of things, idk how strong nazis are getting in ukraine but it does seem to be a serious issue. the u.s. approach to it seems to be that 'we'll take care of that later' and a bit of dirty laundry not aired. but for things to move forward this element has to be dealt with.
the confrontation though, unless russia wants to march onto kiev and throw these dudes out, won't solve it.
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On March 08 2014 11:45 oneofthem wrote:
on the russian side of things, idk how strong nazis are getting in ukraine but it does seem to be a serious issue. the u.s. approach to it seems to be that 'we'll take care of that later' and a bit of dirty laundry not aired. but for things to move forward this element has to be dealt with.
the confrontation though, unless russia wants to march onto kiev and throw these dudes out, won't solve it.
Well, we will get to see in May how strong the fascist element is. Ideally the current government in Kyiv will highlight to all Ukrainians that its mainly Russian-Ukrainians soldiers and sailors who are being threatened and blockaded in Crimea and arent surrendering/betraying their oath to the country and so make a clear distinction between Putin's fascist state and the common Russian who is stuck in it. But no doubt about it, the fascists could just go on tv and blame it all on Russians instead of Putin. Feelings of emasculation over losing a territory without firing a shot, and being insulted and called fascists -- and I mean that as in the way Russian media portrays all Ukrainians invovled in maidan as fascists -- definitely has the potential to rise some really nasty nationalism that will target Russians they can grab in Ukraine. Which of course will just lead to another crisis in the East, ruin the proto-Ukrainian nationalism that Putin created with his naked aggression and banal, soviet era media strategy.
But again -- at its most popular -- the fascist party was the 5th most popular party in Ukraine, after even the Communists.
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On March 08 2014 11:33 m4ini wrote:
The US is getting weaker. "Haha".
No, they're not. The whole West for that matter is way bigger today than it was in the 70's. At that time the US 'only' doubled the USSR's economic output, today the US' economy is seven times bigger than Russia's. Same is true for the EU. Not to mention that by the end of the decade the US is expected to be energy independent.
That's an important point in the whole situation. Russia simply isn't one of the big players anymore, and they seriously need to understand that. Maybe China will take over that place if they manage not to drown in smog in the meantime. Russia needs to get rid of Putin and put someone in place who can stir the country into a democratic and European direction because the good old times are not coming back.
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On March 08 2014 11:49 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 11:45 oneofthem wrote:
on the russian side of things, idk how strong nazis are getting in ukraine but it does seem to be a serious issue. the u.s. approach to it seems to be that 'we'll take care of that later' and a bit of dirty laundry not aired. but for things to move forward this element has to be dealt with.
the confrontation though, unless russia wants to march onto kiev and throw these dudes out, won't solve it. Well, we will get to see in May how strong the fascist element is. Ideally the current government in Kyiv will highlight to all Ukrainians that its mainly Russian-Ukrainians soldiers and sailors who are being threatened and blockaded in Crimea and arent surrendering/betraying their oath to the country and so make a clear distinction between Putin's fascist state and the common Russian who is stuck in it. But no doubt about it, the fascists could just go on tv and blame it all on Russians instead of Putin. But again -- at its most popular -- the fascist party was the 5th most popular party in Ukraine, after even the Communists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)#2012_elections:_further_support
Svoboda (National Socialist Party of Ukraine) received nearly 11% last election, and most of that came from Western Ukraine, whereas it received <1% in Eastern Ukraine (where most Russians are). If Eastern Ukraine splinters off to Russia you can expect Svoboda to become even more powerful than they all ready are (who occupy many top Government positions right now). They seem to be getting more popular as well, which is not a good thing. The Ukrainian situation is shit. Russia on one side is an atrociously authoritarian regime, and on the other you have these 'revolutionaries' who are every bit as bad or worse than Putin. In the end the CIA picks the side who is more 'pro-IMF / World Bank', as you can see with the Head of State appointment for Ukraine. Such a lovely technocrat ready to indebt his nation to IMF lords. The same crap that happens all across Africa. In the end the ordinary Ukrainian will be stomped on repeatedly.
![[image loading]](http://www.dw.de/image/0,,16359523_401,00.jpg)
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On March 08 2014 11:39 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 11:36 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 08 2014 11:26 Sub40APM wrote:On March 08 2014 11:12 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
After March 16 it won't be part of Ukraine just. And troops won't be heroically surrendering because they will be considered as invaders.
Ya, so they will be killed. The crisis isnt ending on March 16. No, they won't be killed. If they show anywhere near the prudence that they have been showing so far, they will leave Crimea. Huh? They have been under intense pressure to either surrender or 'join' the Crimean 'self defense force' and they rejected either. The only way they are being moved off those bases is in body bags.
By prudence, I meant not doing something that would certainly get them killed. Surrendering or refusing to join Crimean militias while the territory is still technically Ukrainian is not anywhere so severe as it will be when Crimea becomes Russian territory.
When that happens, then you can expect violent retaliation from Russia. The situation will go from Ukrainian soldiers being non-violently bullied by Russians in Ukrainian territory to Ukrainian soldiers being invaders of Russian territory. Two completely different scenarios. I'm sure Ukrainian soldiers are aware of this, and cognizant of the difference in circumstances, will promptly leave if they don't wish to be imprisoned or killed.
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EPT
