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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 31 2013 23:27 Plansix wrote: Arg why? This is why we can't have nice things! I thought we all agreed this needed to be shut down? I think waxy is waiting for my crotchstream to materialize first | ||
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shmget
118 Posts
On July 31 2013 12:31 lichter wrote: A summary of my post: 1. The term 'mongoloid' should not be used as an insult. It's not supposed to be an insult but has become a popular racist pejorative. 1.1 Who made you the chief censor of the internet, and what can/should be used or not ? 1.2 Since when 'mongoloid' is a 'race' ? There is an ethic group called 'mogol', but clearly the common use of the adjective 'mogoloid' is not directed at them. now-a-day when someone use 'it is a terrific idea' it is not meant with the etymological meaning of terrific : 'that inspire terror' 2. Use your words wisely because inadvertently opting to use racist insults makes you look bad, and your argument worse. It is ironic that you trhow away term like 'racist' carelessly in a sub-thread where you object to the abuse of the term 'abuse' (mind you you only object in half the cases.... only when it serve your argument) 3. Insulting a reluctant woman and Seducing a receptive man are not equally "abuse". point in case. Insults, no matter the time, the place, or the circumstances, are unnecessary. be that as it may, 'unnecessary' does not imply 'banned'... especially when the 'banning' seem to be very selective. apparently the threshold for 'insult' is quite asymmetric. | ||
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Wertheron
France439 Posts
End of the first: debate on chromosom. End of the last: debate on mongoloid and racism. Title of the topic: "Where are the female casters?" What a cool and mature community we have. | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:14 Wertheron wrote: Ok, just read the first and the last page. End of the first: debate on chromosom. End of the last: debate on mongoloid and racism. Title of the topic: "Where are the female casters?" What a cool and mature community we have. Don't generalize the entire community based on the first and last things you notice in a thread that has dozens of pages  .I think people have made some pretty salient points in this thread. We generally understand that its partially demographical, but also we know that there must be some sexism involved because it exists everywhere and would likely exist in this scene as well, although I doubt its meaningful or serious as younger people tend to be more progressive. I guess it exists in a lighter form, more as people just making jokes although they might not be aware of how offensive those jokes might be if they were female. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:14 Wertheron wrote: Ok, just read the first and the last page. End of the first: debate on chromosom. End of the last: debate on mongoloid and racism. Title of the topic: "Where are the female casters?" What a cool and mature community we have. We have gone dark places since this thread started. People have done a careful, well executed dance in an effort to prove that sexism is not a problem on the internet because everyone is a jerk on the internet. And that is it is female streamers fault that there are sexist men harassing them because they are stealing viewers from SC2 players that are better at the game than them. They steal these viewers with a webcam and their "package," because the sexist men cannot resist to look at them due to a total lack of free will. Just when you thought we had gotten over the issue of blaming women for attracting unwanted attention from men, back to the 50s we go. Its been a good time and a nice reminder of how far we have to go with some of the parts of the community. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:11 shmget wrote: 1.1 Who made you the chief censor of the internet, and what can/should be used or not ? 1.2 Since when 'mongoloid' is a 'race' ? There is an ethic group called 'mogol', but clearly the common use of the adjective 'mogoloid' is not directed at them. now-a-day when someone use 'it is a terrific idea' it is not meant with the etymological meaning of terrific : 'that inspire terror' It is ironic that you trhow away term like 'racist' carelessly in a sub-thread where you object to the abuse of the term 'abuse' (mind you you only object in half the cases.... only when it serve your argument) point in case. be that as it may, 'unnecessary' does not imply 'banned'... especially when the 'banning' seem to be very selective. apparently the threshold for 'insult' is quite asymmetric. I don't understand why we are arguing this. It's offensive to Asians and people with Down syndrome. Might be a good idea to not use it. I think we've learned from destiny's incident that whether or not you think it's ok is irrelevant. | ||
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Gr33n
Bahamas113 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:11 shmget wrote: 1.1 Who made you the chief censor of the internet, and what can/should be used or not ? 1.2 Since when 'mongoloid' is a 'race' ? There is an ethic group called 'mogol', but clearly the common use of the adjective 'mogoloid' is not directed at them. now-a-day when someone use 'it is a terrific idea' it is not meant with the etymological meaning of terrific : 'that inspire terror' It is ironic that you trhow away term like 'racist' carelessly in a sub-thread where you object to the abuse of the term 'abuse' (mind you you only object in half the cases.... only when it serve your argument) point in case. be that as it may, 'unnecessary' does not imply 'banned'... especially when the 'banning' seem to be very selective. apparently the threshold for 'insult' is quite asymmetric. this is actually really funny lol. i dont get into it with people who debate semantics of commonly used internet phrases above the above poster. no one said any of that you are just taking my words and twisting them. i simply said there are women who want to be treated equally and then there are those who dont just like men. my thoughts are actually all here https://www.evernote.com/shard/s204/sh/c4b02d85-f224-4a48-843e-0d6ad7ede5d3/b411ada928dd3cdc6d8dfdcb4f6dabb2 and the "perception of sexism" can be found here http://www.notinthekitchenanymore.com/ http://fatuglyorslutty.com/category/jealous/ now can we get husky, destiny, sheth, desrow, idra, artosis, tasteless, moletrap, doa to post emails they got similar to this? i bet those guys had it way worse just stop please with sexism ,it just doesnt exist here. video games are one of the few things on this planet that a women can equally play with men and somehow there is "sexism". bullshit find me proof also to the above poster are u kidding lol. mongolians slaughtered so many people for no reason back in those days so are you suggesting that someone is upset about me insinuating that mongoloids are barbaric idiots (which is a ref to the barbaric mongol empire in china all those years ago....) and i should "be careful when insulting 100s of year old peoples" lol. the oversensitivity is staggering in a place where one google search can bring you to neo nazi fanpages and the most racist ignorance a person can find in this world. oh but please when i say "man that was gay as shit" please think im talking about homosexuals and not simply using gay as an adjective completely unassociated with gay people of whom i have no problems with and when i say mongoloid a single asian man sheds a tear somewhere in asia. please f off | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:30 Gr33n wrote: this is actually really funny lol. i dont get into it with people who debate semantics of commonly used internet phrases above the above poster. no one said any of that you are just taking my words and twisting them. i simply said there are women who want to be treated equally and then there are those who dont just like men. my thoughts are actually all here https://www.evernote.com/shard/s204/sh/c4b02d85-f224-4a48-843e-0d6ad7ede5d3/b411ada928dd3cdc6d8dfdcb4f6dabb2 and the "perception of sexism" can be found here http://www.notinthekitchenanymore.com/ http://fatuglyorslutty.com/category/jealous/ now can we get husky, destiny, sheth, desrow, idra, artosis, tasteless, moletrap, doa to post emails they got similar to this? i bet those guys had it way worse just stop lol sexism it just doesnt exist here. video games are one of the few things on this planet that a women can equally play with men and somehow there is "sexism". bullshit find me proof I may have missed something but are yous saying sexism in gaming doesn't exist and to find you proof... then you linked examples of women being sexually assaulted in gaming? EDIT: and as for your edit. its pretty uncool to admit your okay with offending people and the problem may not be your understanding of sexism but your understanding of humanity. | ||
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Gr33n
Bahamas113 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:36 ComaDose wrote: I may have missed something but are yous saying sexism in gaming doesn't exist and to find you proof... then you linked examples of women being sexually assaulted in gaming? a classic example of someone seeing what they want to see. im saying here are 2 women, can you ask husky to post his emails? i heard that people were threatening to rape destinys child? is that because they are sexist or because people on the internet just hate on ppl no matter what sex they are and say shit for shock value oh and im 100 percent saying that women have no harder time playing video games then men. only the women who advertise they are women, say they are "a girl gamer" or say things like "im really good for a girl" or think that "girls need girl tournys" and such have any issue but the same shit happens to guys who do this too. maximus black joined a pro team but hes not good at sc2, can you guess how much hate he got from the community? its the same exact hate katlyn is getting now. is it because shes a girl and hes a guy? no its because these people advertise themselves or put themselves in scenarios that demand levels of skill they dont have and people and specifically gamers resent that | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:40 Gr33n wrote: a classic example of someone seeing what they want to see. im saying here are 2 women, can you ask husky to post his emails? i heard that people were threatening to rape destinys child? is that because they are sexist or because people on the internet just hate on ppl no matter what sex they are and say shit for shock value I was not seeing what I wanted to see. I asked you for clarification. Now I understand that you are trying to equate the harassment random females online have to endure to that of public figures that step forward in the spotlight. If your point is that sexism does not exist in gaming because everyone gets shit there are a few holes i would like to punch in your argument. EDIT: ninja edits op :/ oh and im 100 percent saying that women have no harder time playing video games then men. only the women who advertise they are women, say they are "a girl gamer" or say things like "im really good for a girl" or think that "girls need girl tournys" and such have any issue but the same shit happens to guys who do this too. maximus black joined a pro team but hes not good at sc2, can you guess how much hate he got from the community? its the same exact hate katlyn is getting now. is it because shes a girl and hes a guy? no its because these people advertise themselves or put themselves in scenarios that demand levels of skill they dont have and people and specifically gamers resent that you are incorrect. no one pointed to maximus black's gender as a reason for his success. | ||
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Gr33n
Bahamas113 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:43 Plansix wrote: Don't argue with him, he is doing the classic "shift the burden of proof" argument that is so popular on the internet. He poses a wild theory that is only true on the broadest terms and then demands you prove him wrong. Then he can just dismiss your claims over and over while never having to make any real arguments himself. He can even post “evidence” that doesn’t even support his claim, because his argument is so broad and overreaching, it can’t really be argued against. He fully admits that women are treated poorly and judged due to their gender, but claims that isn’t a problem because other people are treated poorly for other reasons. How do you argue against that? how is talking about maximus black or kayln broad in any way lol. im talking about super specific scenarios. the opposite is true where in fact YOU are not posting any specific evidence to prove YOUR point http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405217 go watch the vod about this very topic where destiny can be quoted saying "one person said they wanted to rape my child" your telling me that some dudes said "tits or gtfo" and a girl went crying and shouting SEXISM SEXISM but destiny can get emails about rape fantasy over his child and thats "just the internet hating again" but has nothing to do with his gender? btw am i being "too broad" or are these specific and cited examples working above poster. go to every video game stream and find me a girl who is not streaming with webcam. then go find me the LOWEST girl streamer with a webcam and what will you notice? the girl with the cam has substantially more viewership. she doesnt need to use a webcam. no one cares how she looks if she can be entertaining without one? i watch lots of games without webcams it doesnt detract too much from the stream potential but of course it helps. now on those girls who are streaming webcam are they bad at that game? yes. so the ever defensive gaming community sees this bad gamer and insults her for "not being a real gamer" or other childish comments getting potentially more aggressive and you automatically think, yep this is because its a chick right? wrong. by using a webcam you are now way more out there. you are now saying to the people watching, both me in real life and me in game are important. if her in real life wasnt important to her stream why does she have a webcam? i will admit that there are "prejudices" or "preconceived" notions of women who use webcams and im sure there are a few women who get some "unfair" treatment but i would hardly call these VERY FEW people who target women gamers reps for gaming and sexism in gaming because for every sick individual who hates women, there are equally sick individuals who hate men in order for there to be sexism in gaming i believe that one gender must gain significant advantages by being male/female and that gender must also experience less obstacles put in his/her way on the way to playing said game. I dont see this anywhere in gaming. anywhere.... in.... gaming.... | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:47 Gr33n wrote: how is talking about maximus black or kayln broad in any way lol. im talking about super specific scenarios. the opposite is true where in fact YOU are not posting any specific evidence to prove YOUR point http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405217 go watch the vod about this very topic where destiny can be quoted saying "one person said they wanted to rape my child" your telling me that some dudes said "tits or gtfo" and a girl went crying and shouting SEXISM SEXISM but destiny can get emails about rape fantasy over his child and thats "just the internet hating again" but has nothing to do with his gender? btw am i being "too broad" or are these specific and cited examples working thats not too broad its just wrong. obviously they didn't say they were going to rape desiny's child because of his gender EDIT: are you saying that saying "tits or gtfo" isnt sexist? | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:43 Plansix wrote: Don't argue with him, he is doing the classic "shift the burden of proof" argument that is so popular on the internet. He poses a wild theory that is only true on the broadest terms and then demands you prove him wrong. Then he can just dismiss your claims over and over while never having to make any real arguments himself. He can even post “evidence” that doesn’t even support his claim, because his argument is so broad and overreaching, it can’t really be argued against. He fully admits that women are treated poorly and judged due to their gender, but claims that isn’t a problem because other people are treated poorly for other reasons. How do you argue against that? If you point out what he's doing wrong he'll stop posting such hilarious stuff, let him keep going. This is like that one guy who argued that women's rights was the reason the economy was bad in Poland. You can't get this kind of funny on TV. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:47 Gr33n wrote: how is talking about maximus black or kayln broad in any way lol. im talking about super specific scenarios. the opposite is true where in fact YOU are not posting any specific evidence to prove YOUR point http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405217 go watch the vod about this very topic where destiny can be quoted saying "one person said they wanted to rape my child" your telling me that some dudes said "tits or gtfo" and a girl went crying and shouting SEXISM SEXISM but destiny can get emails about rape fantasy over his child and thats "just the internet hating again" but has nothing to do with his gender? btw am i being "too broad" or are these specific and cited examples working Correct me if I'm wrong, but people don't rape children because they have fathers. People do attack douche-bags by insulting, such as saying that they'll rape their children. How is that the same as girls getting attacked *because* they're girls? On a second note, why can't both be wrong on their own merits? Threatening rape is bad, objectively, and we should stop people from doing it. Harassing women is bad, objectively, and we should stop people from doing it. The fact that other people in the internet do it doesn't stop it from being bad, objectively. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:48 ComaDose wrote: thats not too broad its just wrong. obviously they didn't say they were going to rape desiny's child because of his gender EDIT: are you saying that saying "tits or gtfo" isnt sexist? I think he's saying that "tits or gtfo" is equal to threatening someone with rape, but that both are okay. | ||
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partouf
Netherlands405 Posts
Just stop, and to some of you; stop being a dick -> you'll make friends -> you'll be happier -> men and women rejoice -> magical esports and casting -> worldpeace. [Insert mandatory Community clip titled "Gaayyyy"] If there's any kind of demand, though, why not work together and make a nice collection-(fan?)-thread about casters that includes female casters? No? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:49 Thieving Magpie wrote: If you point out what he's doing wrong he'll stop posting such hilarious stuff, let him keep going. This is like that one guy who argued that women's rights was the reason the economy was bad in Poland. You can't get this kind of funny on TV. Ohhhhh I see now. This thread is still open to provide a road map and further proof the insane justifications of sexism exists in the community. Very meta. Plus its funny shit. On August 01 2013 00:53 Thieving Magpie wrote: I think he's saying that "tits or gtfo" is equal to threatening someone with rape, but that both are okay. Well its all ok, only because everyone is being treated like garbage. It can't be a problem if everyone is being abused and then the abuse isn't really there. Seems legit. | ||
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Gr33n
Bahamas113 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:52 Thieving Magpie wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but people don't rape children because they have fathers. People do attack douche-bags by insulting, such as saying that they'll rape their children. How is that the same as girls getting attacked *because* they're girls? On a second note, why can't both be wrong on their own merits? Threatening rape is bad, objectively, and we should stop people from doing it. Harassing women is bad, objectively, and we should stop people from doing it. The fact that other people in the internet do it doesn't stop it from being bad, objectively. and i agree that both of those things are bad but those two things share one thing in common, they both are happening because this person is putting themselves on the INTERNET AS A HUMAN BEING. all human beings on the internet regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation and level of completion on HOTS campaign are going to be attacked and hated on. stop pretending people say "tits or gtfo" because they are sexist, they say it because its a joke thats easily got. if you wana insult a fat person make a fat joke, if you wana insult a gay person make a gay joke, if you wana insult a girl make a joke about her being a girl can you stop pretending this is about sex its not | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:47 Gr33n wrote: in order for there to be sexism in gaming i believe that one gender must gain significant advantages by being male/female and that gender must also experience less obstacles put in his/her way on the way to playing said game. I dont see this anywhere in gaming. anywhere.... in.... gaming.... yo there is a definition for sexism, you can't make a new one just cause you feel like it. and stop editing shit into your posts lol | ||
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