On March 23 2014 13:53 skyR wrote: Leafs not going to make playoffs at this rate
Bernier will not make the trip to New Jersey. It'll be interesting to see who starts tomorrow night in NJ.
the longer Bernier takes to get back in net the lower the leafs' chances of making the playoffs. for whatever reason, Reimer just ain't gettin' it done.
Carlyle's post game presser showed a coach who is coddling the declining psyche of his team. he didn't rip any one and was as optimistic/positive as you'll ever see the guy.
Maybe Carlyle should learn that giving up lots of shots is asking too much for the goalie. He's a bad coach because the system he uses is fucking useless, coddling be damned.
On March 23 2014 17:12 sharkeyanti wrote: Maybe Carlyle should learn that giving up lots of shots is asking too much for the goalie. He's a bad coach because the system he uses is fucking useless, coddling be damned.
Yup. But because Kessel can score alot and the goalies have been amazing the system looks like it works.
Yea, it just fascinates me that people obey narratives in a situation like this. Their possession numbers are historically bad, they allow the most shots in the league per game, and the coaching staff believes a number of fallacies about their own team. The Leafs are who they are because they have bad depth, an inept coach, and some pylons on D. They can hang with some teams because of the crazy good top line and some quality young defenders, in addition to what has been mostly fantastic goaltending. In a case like this, narratives about toughness, desire, heart, chemistry are just bullshit. The team ain't good, and is not going to get better. Owner wants to plan a parade? Copy teams who do things well. It's not a goddamn magic formula. Players and media often acknowledge the hockey gods in the course of games, but for some reason forget that luck, hot goalies, bad injuries are important factors. No one reminisces about the toughness of Stanley Cup winners. You win hockey games by scoring more than the other team, and you score more by shooting more and in better areas than the others guys more often.
On March 23 2014 17:27 sharkeyanti wrote: No one reminisces about the toughness of Stanley Cup winners.
i disagree with this part, i think the toughness of the champion is celebrated.
physical intimidation is a part of the game. some guys go overboard and think that is all they need to win.
causing your opponent to fear for their physical safety gives you and your team an advantage. the more players you can get to be afraid the more of an advantage it is. and this applies to many sports, not just hockey.
go down the list of stanley cup winning coaches and GMs and you'll see a reasonable percentage are more than willing to instruct their hockey team to employ nasty tactics.
On March 23 2014 17:27 sharkeyanti wrote: Yea, it just fascinates me that people obey narratives in a situation like this. Their possession numbers are historically bad, they allow the most shots in the league per game, and the coaching staff believes a number of fallacies about their own team. The Leafs are who they are because they have bad depth, an inept coach, and some pylons on D. They can hang with some teams because of the crazy good top line and some quality young defenders, in addition to what has been mostly fantastic goaltending. In a case like this, narratives about toughness, desire, heart, chemistry are just bullshit. The team ain't good, and is not going to get better. Owner wants to plan a parade? Copy teams who do things well. It's not a goddamn magic formula. Players and media often acknowledge the hockey gods in the course of games, but for some reason forget that luck, hot goalies, bad injuries are important factors. No one reminisces about the toughness of Stanley Cup winners. You win hockey games by scoring more than the other team, and you score more by shooting more and in better areas than the others guys more often.
This post in on the money. Leafs are falling fast and it's pretty hilarious (and expected). Most teams have between 10-12 games left, and the east wc race is real close.
Hank is all time leader in shutouts for NYR \o/
Was kind of a tight sloppy game, but whatever, w is a w
just following up on the "No one reminisces about the toughness of Stanley Cup winners."
here is about 12 Cups here.
here are some guys reminiscing about the toughness ingredient required to be a champion. Scott Bowman, probably the best coach in the history of the NHL specifically instructed Larry Robinson to find Dave Schultz and pound the fuck out of him. Bowman knows the value of putting fear into your opponent and it was a turning point in the rivalry between the Flyers and the Canadiens.
"it wasn't until i developed a mean streak that my game started to elevate" , Larry Robinson. "you try ot get into guys heads early", Chris Pronger. referring ot Pronger, "he does leave a mark on you both physically and mentally".
On March 23 2014 17:27 sharkeyanti wrote: The Leafs are who they are because they have bad depth, an inept coach, and some pylons on D.
i love these junior sabermatricians that run around using words like "fallacies"
Carlyle took on a horrific dysfunctional team that hadn't been to the playoffs in nearly a decade and got them in the playoffs. Anaheim improved on Carlyle's watch as well.
the 2003 Ducks team was just a goalie team. JSG won the Conne Smythe while losing the Cup. Carlyle turned them into a complete team.
i do not know if Carlyle is a great coach. he is certainly not inept. he is 39-30 in the playoffs.
some more important games for bubble teams today. CBJ vs NYI, TOR vs NJ, MIN vs DET, BUF vs VAN. VAN (2.5% to make) and NJ (9.4%) are technically still in it, but need miracles at this point.
NJ really got hosed because they're a very good defensive and possession team, but can't score for shit, pissed away a ton of points in the shootout because they can't score, and had the misfortune of DeBoer insisting on starting Marty so much over the vastly superior Schneider. Even just like a handful of wins from starting Schneider instead or winning a few shootouts and they're right in the thick of the east WC race. If they find a way to add a bonafide scorer (and Jagr comes back looking like he did this season), they're probably a playoff team again next year.
I really would like to see Dallas make it over the Coyotes. I hate Mike Smith with a passion, and I want phoenix to just move already. Dallas also has some really entertaining players in Benn and Seguin, and some rad jerseys
In that interview that came out over the summer, Greg Cronin (a Leafs assistant) expressed his assertions about the team and about the hockey stats world. The basic takeaway was that the Leafs wanted to limit the other team to low-quality opportunities, while they themselves stressed quality over quantity in shot selection. He talked about their philosophy of getting pucks deep, spending ~40 seconds in the zone so that the team can develop a great chance. Except that in any game, each team might do that once or twice at 5v5. He also stated the Leafs were not out-possessed.
Toughness can play a part of a game for sure. But in the past ten years, the importance of that has definitely decreased. The skill and athleticism of players has risen across the board, and intimidation might only affect specific guys. I think resilience or tenacity is certainly a quality you want in a player, but that is to be expected of a modern NHLer. Again, the narrative train can make it easy to identify "tough" dudes, but all those guys out there are tough. It's such a small ingredient, not to be insignificant, but small.
2006 Ducks had a stacked team. If there is anything that has proven to win in the NHL, it is definitely talent, not a coach.
On March 24 2014 04:10 sharkeyanti wrote: In that interview that came out over the summer, Greg Cronin (a Leafs assistant) expressed his assertions about the team and about the hockey stats world. The basic takeaway was that the Leafs wanted to limit the other team to low-quality opportunities, while they themselves stressed quality over quantity in shot selection. He talked about their philosophy of getting pucks deep, spending ~40 seconds in the zone so that the team can develop a great chance. Except that in any game, each team might do that once or twice at 5v5. He also stated the Leafs were not out-possessed.
Toughness can play a part of a game for sure. But in the past ten years, the importance of that has definitely decreased. The skill and athleticism of players has risen across the board, and intimidation might only affect specific guys. I think resilience or tenacity is certainly a quality you want in a player, but that is to be expected of a modern NHLer. Again, the narrative train can make it easy to identify "tough" dudes, but all those guys out there are tough. It's such a small ingredient, not to be insignificant, but small.
2006 Ducks had a stacked team. If there is anything that has proven to win in the NHL, it is definitely talent, not a coach.
the coach either has an impact or he does not. and if all the coach has to do is "not fuck stuff up"... that is still better than "inept" which is ur claim about Carlyle... if the coach has no impact than listing the leafs poor coaching as a reason for their decline is doublethink.
"stacked" is ill-defined. tighten up the definition of that and a more constructive dialogue can continue.
Ducks were "stacked" because they had smart execs who built a really good team. that kind of upper management hires a good coaching staff, not a bunch of stooges.
Funny, how Scotty Bowman mysteriously appeared behind the bench of so many stacked teams decade after decade after decade. Could it be that the GMs that are the smartest also hire the best coach there is? wow. and if you want to claim Bowman is not a good coach or did not impact his teams in light of the writings of Dryden, Lemieux and Yzerman then we have reductio ad absurdum.
JSG was above average the year the Ducks won the cup, nothing spectacular. He was spectacular in stretches for the Ducks before Carlyle arrived. They really had no business going any where near the Stanley Cup finals in 2003.
thus, the Ducks improvement in over all team play under Carlyle was large.
the leafs are better than they were before Carlyle arrived. the ducks improved under Carlyle's watch. you have no reply for Carlyle's 39-30 record in the playoffs.
you're running out of coincidences here.
if you are trying to take at face value the jingo-ism and catch-phrases Carlyle or any assistant spews to the media ... you are analyzing, a 100% scripted TV show, right down to the Reimer shoulder injury in Los Angeles. you might as well watch Seinfeld re-runs for how scripted Carlyle and his staff are.
If KelianQatar would like to shed some light in this area because of her brother working as a scout for the leafs that'd be cool. I'll bet you Rob can't say 1 damn word to the media that is not pre-approved by some form of MLSE PR team.
Listen, Rob can't say a word to the media. If he is going to be interviewed by some media outlet there is at least a 2 week prep time. The guys who do not regularly talk to the media, get their "responses" drilled into them for weeks before hand. So, if you think you're getting anything close to the truth from any member of the Maple Leaf's coaching staff ... you are sadly mistaken.
On March 24 2014 04:10 sharkeyanti wrote: In that interview that came out over the summer, Greg Cronin (a Leafs assistant) expressed his assertions about the team and about the hockey stats world. The basic takeaway was that the Leafs wanted to limit the other team to low-quality opportunities, while they themselves stressed quality over quantity in shot selection. He talked about their philosophy of getting pucks deep, spending ~40 seconds in the zone so that the team can develop a great chance. Except that in any game, each team might do that once or twice at 5v5. He also stated the Leafs were not out-possessed.
Toughness can play a part of a game for sure. But in the past ten years, the importance of that has definitely decreased. The skill and athleticism of players has risen across the board, and intimidation might only affect specific guys. I think resilience or tenacity is certainly a quality you want in a player, but that is to be expected of a modern NHLer. Again, the narrative train can make it easy to identify "tough" dudes, but all those guys out there are tough. It's such a small ingredient, not to be insignificant, but small.
2006 Ducks had a stacked team. If there is anything that has proven to win in the NHL, it is definitely talent, not a coach.
like nikj and shieke said, it's time for everyone else in the thread to start ignoring the same three 'people' who share an ip address, ideas, talking style and desire to steer every single conversation towards the same topics no matter how many times you throw facts at them. it's a losing battle to keep pretending like someone who ignores all other viewpoints and facts is deserving of your attention. just ignore jimmy/lamprey/kelian, and report them every time they go off topic in hopes they go away or a mod finally bans them
reminder from the op
back to the thread, CBJ pissed away two points by falling to the isles today. Ouch
I know I know Quantic, but it seemed like a good jumping off point for discussion about the problems with how the Leafs are run. I won't be such a fool next time.
Flyers have five wins in the past five games: PIT, PIT, CHI, DAL, STL. I can get down with this. Also, signed Raffl to a two year, $1.1M AAV contract. Not bad.
to reminisce is to talk about old times. so that stretches much farther back than 10 years.
so the videos provided definitely reminisce about how toughness, aggression, and inducing fear in your opponent helped win stanley cups in the "old times"
there are 87 bazillion more of those videos.
so this comment
On March 23 2014 17:27 sharkeyanti wrote: No one reminisces about the toughness of Stanley Cup winners.
Yeah Flyers have been hot. Their forwards are so good and they're deep up front. Sucks for them the D/G is not nearly as good. THat will hurt come playoffs. Timmonen is ollllld too, and he's still so good.
On March 24 2014 05:44 QuanticHawk wrote: like nikj and shieke said, it's time for everyone else in the thread to start ignoring the same three 'people' who share an ip address,
KelianQatar moved this weekend. she has a new IP address. which is hundreds of miles away from me. and the IP can't be a proxy and her previous IP could not have been a proxy either.,, i live in Toronto, Raynor is in Mississauga. KelianQatar is in DC.
i've told you before the 3 of us all play on the same "Zealot Hockey" team. so cut the crap.
EPT
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