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SPL Casters (SNM/Whiplash) Appreciation/Criticism - Page 16

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BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria854 Posts
January 21 2013 21:37 GMT
#301
I am happy with these two. Of course they are not the best, but the amount of bashing is unreal.
Arnstein
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway3381 Posts
January 21 2013 21:45 GMT
#302
On January 22 2013 06:37 BlazingGlory wrote:
I am happy with these two. Of course they are not the best, but the amount of bashing is unreal.


Same here.

Also, it's actually good to get a break from the "usual suspects".
rsol in response to the dragoon voice being heard in SCII: dragoon ai reaches new lows: wanders into wrong game
HornyHydra
Profile Joined February 2011
Taiwan222 Posts
January 21 2013 21:56 GMT
#303
I've watch SPL a few times and I've decided that even though I've already paid for my subscription, I'll only be watching some of the EG-TL matches. The main reason being Supernovamaniac's casting; it really doesn't work out in my opinion. Whiplash is fine for the most part; he gives some decent analysis, but seeing how he's supposed to be the analysis-part of the casting team, he could be talking more about the build orders and the game more often (that's the only thing I can complain about for Whiplash). Supernovamaniac on the other hand, has much more to work on than his casting partner. I understand that Supernovamaniac's native language may not be English, but given that his job is to cast the English stream for a tournament of SPL's caliber, this should not be an issue. The main things that bug me about Supernovamaniac's casting that bothers me is when he stumbles over his words, has weird intonations that would not normally be a part of a native English speaker's speech, and that he is often times at a loss for words so he take an unusually long time to say what he has to say. Another main problem that I find with Supernovamaniac's casting is that he talks over his co-caster a lot; this is a huge deal because it makes the cast appear less professional and it just makes me cringe to hear a caster cut his co-caster off. It's also a bit annoying to see Supernovamaniac attempt to do analysis of the games after the game when it's clearly Whiplash's job (seeing how Whiplash was/is? a former pro and ranked pretty high on ladder).

Don't get me wrong here, I don't hate Supernovamaniac and I'm not picking on his casting just because his native language might not be English. English is my second language as well and I know that with time and effort, these kinds of things can be fixed
Prime ♥
KanoCoke
Profile Joined June 2011
Japan863 Posts
January 21 2013 22:04 GMT
#304
SNM is Korean the last time I heard. Which is why he's fluent in the language and translates the interviews. He probably lived in the US from a young age, but probably not a young enough age (the older you are, the more your parents and hometown friends' accents and intonations get absorbed by you).

Which is why I'm happy my neighborhood had American kids.
Will always cheer for: MMA Bomber Taeja Curious Life herO Zest
Aulisemia
Profile Joined August 2011
United States123 Posts
January 21 2013 22:05 GMT
#305
I quite enjoy the casting duo. It can be awful at times when they talk over each other but even people like Tastosis do this occasionally. They've been casting together for such a short period of time, expecting them to perform flawlessly together is a mug's game.

To the people bashing SNM's english, I hope you realize it isn't his native language. He does a great job and has only gotten better and more fluid over the last month. Imagine how difficult your job would be if you were expected to do it in French.

Similarly, why do I get a warning for bashing Catspajamas or Incontrol for being a caster that I cannot stand listening to, but people have been free to do the same to these guys? If you don't like listening to them either give constructive feedback or mute/find another stream to watch. Simple as that.
The ponciest ponce that ever ponced past a poncing palour.
paladin8
Profile Joined May 2012
United States44 Posts
January 21 2013 22:14 GMT
#306
On January 22 2013 06:02 Snake.69 wrote:
I assume most top masters/grandmasters players cannot stand their cast at all. I personally dont watch pro league... All they do is state the obvious... Im sure they are great ppl... but maybe they should try to play a few thousand games at high masters+ level so that they can understand the decision makings, mind games, and also predict the outcome of engagements and games better.

So many times i find myself knowing exactly what a player is up to just to have to caster say something that doesnt make any sense... then the player ends up proving me right and them wrong and Im like ahhhhhhhhh fk this shit LOL.

I know its hard to be an Artosis or a Apollo. but its PRO LEAGUE. I expect the caster to explain to us how they think a player should react from scouting certain things. I want them to tell us WHY that player took that decision instead of another. I want them to know what other options he could have taken. I want them to tell us exactly what build a player is up to.

Idk maybe im too harsh, Im sure casual players can enjoy their cast, they are great guys that love their jobs.. but.... too hard for me to watch . I seriously think i could do a better job ( sorry...


I agree, and this is the main issue I have with the SPL casts. The English might not be the best, the atmosphere might be a little awkward, the recall of results a little lacking, but those are usually tolerable. What I really dislike is when the casters have inferior game and metagame knowledge to me, and I don't even watch/play that much. This is their job, they should really make sure that they have solid game understanding. They should also work on the other things I mentioned, but until I can actually get valuable SC2-related information from them I'm better off watching the Korean stream and casting it to myself.
Gatsbizzle
Profile Joined March 2010
United States132 Posts
January 21 2013 22:18 GMT
#307
Just my 2 cents:

Cons: Lack of caster synergy between the two of them, as mentioned by others. Rarely do they play off each other's jokes, etc. It often feels a little awkward, as if it's just two guys who happen to work together and that's it, as opposed to say, Tastosis or Bitterdam, where you can really feel an underlying relationship that isn't solely defined by their work.

Pros: Above-average knowledge of the Brood War scene. While I don't feel it's quite as complete as say, Sayle (after casting an entire season of Proleague by himself), I feel like it's a step up from the average SC2 caster who is mostly familiar with TBLS and a few others. Real-time Korean translations of interviews, commentary is also a really nice plus.

I don't play this game much, so I can't really comment on the accuracy of analysis/prediction or whatever, but I can say that improving the co-caster synergy and overall presentation/feel of the cast would go a long way towards improving the final product. If anything, I'd almost think that if they brought in a 3rd caster with a high-amount of analytical knowledge (i.e. player-caster, perhaps) the cast would get better. SNM doesn't really feel like he's 100% fit for a caster role from an oratory standpoint, but his knowledge of the Korean language and the BW scene would help augment a standard Analytic-Color caster pair.
I joined TeamLiquid for TSL2 but I stayed for Nada's Body.
LimeNade
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2125 Posts
January 21 2013 22:41 GMT
#308
On January 22 2013 06:45 Arnstein wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 06:37 BlazingGlory wrote:
I am happy with these two. Of course they are not the best, but the amount of bashing is unreal.


Same here.

Also, it's actually good to get a break from the "usual suspects".


Really? This isn't a rookie league where we want to wait and see how the casters develop........... THIS IS PROLEAGUE the best casters with experience should be assigned to this so I can watch my favorite players from broodwar with epic casting rather then having my ears bleed
JD, need I say more? :D
Pinski
Profile Joined September 2010
United States126 Posts
January 21 2013 22:48 GMT
#309
On January 22 2013 07:41 LimeNade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 06:45 Arnstein wrote:
On January 22 2013 06:37 BlazingGlory wrote:
I am happy with these two. Of course they are not the best, but the amount of bashing is unreal.


Same here.

Also, it's actually good to get a break from the "usual suspects".


Really? This isn't a rookie league where we want to wait and see how the casters develop........... THIS IS PROLEAGUE the best casters with experience should be assigned to this so I can watch my favorite players from broodwar with epic casting rather then having my ears bleed


Except, the best casters with the greatest experience are already tied to contracts, don't want to give up and move to Korea, or have other things they still want to be able to do like cast other tournaments. It's not like they had any other better options of people willing to move to Korea and cast for them. Not to mention, never have any other casting options available to them besides proleague. Having to cast proleague is obviously an exclusive thing. You don't have time for anything else. You can't stop and go cast a DH, MLG, etc, you have Proleague, and only proleague. Vacations? Only outside of Proleague time(which isn't that often). I don't think you realize what you have to give up to cast Proleague.
yaletown
Profile Joined October 2011
Korea (South)110 Posts
January 21 2013 22:49 GMT
#310
On January 22 2013 06:26 KanoCoke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 06:11 Snusmumriken wrote:
pro league is most likely (obviously) not paying foreign casters much whatsoever as they focus heavily on the korean scene. As always you get what you pay for.

Makes sense. We only paid 5 dollars.


Thats interesting how everyone assumes that. I did too until I heard they are actually making more than wolf and kaldor.
you're only as good as your last game
Alryk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2718 Posts
January 21 2013 23:01 GMT
#311
On January 22 2013 06:37 BlazingGlory wrote:
I am happy with these two. Of course they are not the best, but the amount of bashing is unreal.


Honestly, and I don't know if I do, but I wouldn't be surprised to speak for a lot of others; but the worst thing for me is the terrible analysis. You can say what you want about people's opinions of their accents, jokes, or whatever, but objectively, you can't deny that they have lacking analysis. SNM at least frequently calls or discusses something incorrectly, and that is the worst thing they can do imo. They can work on everything they want, and I know they're improving, but if they keep delivering flawed analysis, people will still be annoyed even if they fixed everything else.
Team Liquid, IM, ViOlet!
KanoCoke
Profile Joined June 2011
Japan863 Posts
January 21 2013 23:05 GMT
#312
On January 22 2013 07:49 yaletown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 06:26 KanoCoke wrote:
On January 22 2013 06:11 Snusmumriken wrote:
pro league is most likely (obviously) not paying foreign casters much whatsoever as they focus heavily on the korean scene. As always you get what you pay for.

Makes sense. We only paid 5 dollars.


Thats interesting how everyone assumes that. I did too until I heard they are actually making more than wolf and kaldor.

I was talking from a buyer's standpoint. SNM and Whiplash obviously get paid more than GSL casters because it's all run by Kespa, and you know they have the money.

If GSL had more years under their belts, they'd probably be paying more.

As for SNM and Whiplash's potential salaries, they probably don't deserve it as of right now but they were the only ones that actually stepped up to the challenge of going to Korea to cast Proleague.

If Kespa actually listens to the fans, they'll probably have better casters midway this year or next season (latter being more likely because they're rigid that way). If not, you'll probably have to wait a few years until SNM gets better with his grasp on the English language and game knowledge, and Whiplash with his analytical casting, and both of them with their synergy.
Will always cheer for: MMA Bomber Taeja Curious Life herO Zest
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
January 21 2013 23:06 GMT
#313
My favourite part of their casting is how they stay more on topic than most other casters out there. While other casters in the industry will suddenly go on tangent and talk about personal life stuff whenever there's a lull in the action, SNM/Whiplash keep the conversation on StarCraft.

That said, I still feel like there's a lot of improvement to be done on their part when it comes to casting the game. They definitely do not come close to Tastosis when those two are actually focused on the game instead of something like their favourite colour. I compare them to Tastosis specifically because that's the quality of casting knowledge and play-by-play I've come to expect out of English broadcasts coming out of Korea.

It's a lofty expectation to meet, but I think if they keep working hard and brush up more on their SC2 (SNM in particular, here), there's no reason why they can't do it. In the meantime, I'll continue watching Proleague and listening to them grow as casters.
Twitter: @iamcaustic
Juggernaut477
Profile Joined May 2011
United States379 Posts
January 21 2013 23:07 GMT
#314
On January 22 2013 07:49 yaletown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 06:26 KanoCoke wrote:
On January 22 2013 06:11 Snusmumriken wrote:
pro league is most likely (obviously) not paying foreign casters much whatsoever as they focus heavily on the korean scene. As always you get what you pay for.

Makes sense. We only paid 5 dollars.


Thats interesting how everyone assumes that. I did too until I heard they are actually making more than wolf and kaldor.



Really? Source?
Ender985
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain910 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-21 23:12:44
January 21 2013 23:12 GMT
#315
I think they definely can improve, but also that they have definely improved in this last few weeks, so I think they are on the good track. Give them a month or two before throwing them to the pit!

SNV needs to do some more play-by-play and de-awkwardize his half-jokes a bit, Whiplash needs to get better at the analysis of the game, and the duo needs more chemistry; but those problems are nothing that some focused work can not solve.
Member of the Pirate Party - direct democracy, institutional transparency, and freedom of information
Nathanias
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States290 Posts
January 21 2013 23:24 GMT
#316
They have a really fucking difficult job that requires a lot of preparation and work, I respect them for improving (no matter what pace that's at) but I think the next step is probably for SNM to slow down a bit, and for both of them to stop forcing so many jokes(I do wish I could have heard his jokes about Bong vs Paralyze, but alas my schedule conflicts).
CommentatorNever give up, Never surrender
yaletown
Profile Joined October 2011
Korea (South)110 Posts
January 21 2013 23:29 GMT
#317
On January 22 2013 08:07 Juggernaut477 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 07:49 yaletown wrote:
On January 22 2013 06:26 KanoCoke wrote:
On January 22 2013 06:11 Snusmumriken wrote:
pro league is most likely (obviously) not paying foreign casters much whatsoever as they focus heavily on the korean scene. As always you get what you pay for.

Makes sense. We only paid 5 dollars.


Thats interesting how everyone assumes that. I did too until I heard they are actually making more than wolf and kaldor.



Really? Source?

Im in Korea. Lets just say i heard it from someone here. I didnt belive it either. I know others asked for too much.
you're only as good as your last game
elimzkE
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia92 Posts
January 21 2013 23:49 GMT
#318
I mute the stream almost every time I watch it. They just like to say what's happening (which they sometimes get wrong somehow) and then actually just repeat that as many times as possible.
A good example was Stephano vs Sola. When Sola was battling at Stephano's third, the casters said about 10 - 15 times "Sola has the roach advantage."
We can SEE that, guys. Like holy shit, how many fucking times do we need to be told the same shit?

Their extended game knowledge is garbage. They don't know openers, they can't read tech or resources and they absolutely have no idea what sort of damage certain pushes do at various times of the game.

Considering this is ProLeague, aka THE stream I should be showing my friends that I want to get into SC2, this is the most abysmal shit I could have asked for. Sure they're improving, but I want legitimately good casters NOW for ProLeague. Bring these guys on in a year when they've developed enough game knowledge to get themselves out of bronze.
"First there was eLim. Then there was skill."
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
January 21 2013 23:53 GMT
#319
On January 22 2013 04:57 tomatriedes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 03:44 StarMoon wrote:
On January 22 2013 03:32 Cel.erity wrote:
On January 22 2013 03:28 Jedclark wrote:
It was silly to hire them. For the most professional and respected team league in SC2, you don't hire casters and say, "Oh, don't worry. They'll get to the required level in time" - they're either at that level, or they don't get the job.


I'm guessing there are no more than 3-4 qualified individuals who are willing to accept the job. What's with all these posts that assume there are waves of casters lining up to quit their job/schooling, move to the other side of the world, and get paid slightly more than minimum wage?


Doa and... others (don't recall) were going to cast PL, and then KESPA fucked them over. Doa even made a post about it because he thought they wouldn't have an English cast at all.

Afterwards, they gave the casting over to the foreign scene (EG, TL, IPL) and they did a good job at first. I wish they just continued to do this. I'll take random IPL casters over these guys.


It was so stupid that they didn't let DOA cast- honestly he would have been way better. Typical KESPA control-freaking as usual.


This is a pretty wide misconception that a lot of people have about the whole Doa situation. Doa works for OGN, therefore if Kespa wanted Doa to cast for them, they would need to contract OGN to provide the english Proleague stream. I guess there were talks to that effect, but they fell through. I don't know what took place in these talks and whether it was an issue of Kespa being too controlling, or money, or what. In any case, understand that there's a world of difference between hiring your own casters and letting another company take control over your broadcast.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Batch
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden692 Posts
January 21 2013 23:54 GMT
#320
I get a feeling I know more about the game than they do, and that's a bad thing. They should add expertice and drop knowledge bombs, or improve the viewing experience. It doesn't feel like they do neither of those things.

This will probably change. I disliked Gretorp when he first began to cast for NASL as well and now I love his casting. I do however feel like this casting job is a little to big to use as a learning experience.
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