EPTSPL Casters (SNM/Whiplash) Appreciation/Criticism - Page 16
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BlazingGlory
Bulgaria855 Posts
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Arnstein
Norway3381 Posts
On January 22 2013 06:37 BlazingGlory wrote: I am happy with these two. Of course they are not the best, but the amount of bashing is unreal. Same here. Also, it's actually good to get a break from the "usual suspects". | ||
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HornyHydra
Taiwan222 Posts
Don't get me wrong here, I don't hate Supernovamaniac and I'm not picking on his casting just because his native language might not be English. English is my second language as well and I know that with time and effort, these kinds of things can be fixed | ||
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KanoCoke
Japan863 Posts
Which is why I'm happy my neighborhood had American kids. | ||
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Aulisemia
United States123 Posts
To the people bashing SNM's english, I hope you realize it isn't his native language. He does a great job and has only gotten better and more fluid over the last month. Imagine how difficult your job would be if you were expected to do it in French. Similarly, why do I get a warning for bashing Catspajamas or Incontrol for being a caster that I cannot stand listening to, but people have been free to do the same to these guys? If you don't like listening to them either give constructive feedback or mute/find another stream to watch. Simple as that. | ||
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paladin8
United States44 Posts
On January 22 2013 06:02 Snake.69 wrote: I assume most top masters/grandmasters players cannot stand their cast at all. I personally dont watch pro league... All they do is state the obvious... Im sure they are great ppl... but maybe they should try to play a few thousand games at high masters+ level so that they can understand the decision makings, mind games, and also predict the outcome of engagements and games better. So many times i find myself knowing exactly what a player is up to just to have to caster say something that doesnt make any sense... then the player ends up proving me right and them wrong and Im like ahhhhhhhhh fk this shit LOL. I know its hard to be an Artosis or a Apollo. but its PRO LEAGUE. I expect the caster to explain to us how they think a player should react from scouting certain things. I want them to tell us WHY that player took that decision instead of another. I want them to know what other options he could have taken. I want them to tell us exactly what build a player is up to. Idk maybe im too harsh, Im sure casual players can enjoy their cast, they are great guys that love their jobs.. but.... too hard for me to watch  . I seriously think i could do a better job ( sorry...I agree, and this is the main issue I have with the SPL casts. The English might not be the best, the atmosphere might be a little awkward, the recall of results a little lacking, but those are usually tolerable. What I really dislike is when the casters have inferior game and metagame knowledge to me, and I don't even watch/play that much. This is their job, they should really make sure that they have solid game understanding. They should also work on the other things I mentioned, but until I can actually get valuable SC2-related information from them I'm better off watching the Korean stream and casting it to myself. | ||
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Gatsbizzle
United States132 Posts
Cons: Lack of caster synergy between the two of them, as mentioned by others. Rarely do they play off each other's jokes, etc. It often feels a little awkward, as if it's just two guys who happen to work together and that's it, as opposed to say, Tastosis or Bitterdam, where you can really feel an underlying relationship that isn't solely defined by their work. Pros: Above-average knowledge of the Brood War scene. While I don't feel it's quite as complete as say, Sayle (after casting an entire season of Proleague by himself), I feel like it's a step up from the average SC2 caster who is mostly familiar with TBLS and a few others. Real-time Korean translations of interviews, commentary is also a really nice plus. I don't play this game much, so I can't really comment on the accuracy of analysis/prediction or whatever, but I can say that improving the co-caster synergy and overall presentation/feel of the cast would go a long way towards improving the final product. If anything, I'd almost think that if they brought in a 3rd caster with a high-amount of analytical knowledge (i.e. player-caster, perhaps) the cast would get better. SNM doesn't really feel like he's 100% fit for a caster role from an oratory standpoint, but his knowledge of the Korean language and the BW scene would help augment a standard Analytic-Color caster pair. | ||
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LimeNade
United States2125 Posts
On January 22 2013 06:45 Arnstein wrote: Same here. Also, it's actually good to get a break from the "usual suspects". Really? This isn't a rookie league where we want to wait and see how the casters develop........... THIS IS PROLEAGUE the best casters with experience should be assigned to this so I can watch my favorite players from broodwar with epic casting rather then having my ears bleed | ||
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Pinski
United States126 Posts
On January 22 2013 07:41 LimeNade wrote: Really? This isn't a rookie league where we want to wait and see how the casters develop........... THIS IS PROLEAGUE the best casters with experience should be assigned to this so I can watch my favorite players from broodwar with epic casting rather then having my ears bleed Except, the best casters with the greatest experience are already tied to contracts, don't want to give up and move to Korea, or have other things they still want to be able to do like cast other tournaments. It's not like they had any other better options of people willing to move to Korea and cast for them. Not to mention, never have any other casting options available to them besides proleague. Having to cast proleague is obviously an exclusive thing. You don't have time for anything else. You can't stop and go cast a DH, MLG, etc, you have Proleague, and only proleague. Vacations? Only outside of Proleague time(which isn't that often). I don't think you realize what you have to give up to cast Proleague. | ||
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yaletown
Korea (South)110 Posts
Thats interesting how everyone assumes that. I did too until I heard they are actually making more than wolf and kaldor. | ||
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
On January 22 2013 06:37 BlazingGlory wrote: I am happy with these two. Of course they are not the best, but the amount of bashing is unreal. Honestly, and I don't know if I do, but I wouldn't be surprised to speak for a lot of others; but the worst thing for me is the terrible analysis. You can say what you want about people's opinions of their accents, jokes, or whatever, but objectively, you can't deny that they have lacking analysis. SNM at least frequently calls or discusses something incorrectly, and that is the worst thing they can do imo. They can work on everything they want, and I know they're improving, but if they keep delivering flawed analysis, people will still be annoyed even if they fixed everything else. | ||
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KanoCoke
Japan863 Posts
On January 22 2013 07:49 yaletown wrote: Thats interesting how everyone assumes that. I did too until I heard they are actually making more than wolf and kaldor. I was talking from a buyer's standpoint. SNM and Whiplash obviously get paid more than GSL casters because it's all run by Kespa, and you know they have the money. If GSL had more years under their belts, they'd probably be paying more. As for SNM and Whiplash's potential salaries, they probably don't deserve it as of right now but they were the only ones that actually stepped up to the challenge of going to Korea to cast Proleague. If Kespa actually listens to the fans, they'll probably have better casters midway this year or next season (latter being more likely because they're rigid that way). If not, you'll probably have to wait a few years until SNM gets better with his grasp on the English language and game knowledge, and Whiplash with his analytical casting, and both of them with their synergy. | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
That said, I still feel like there's a lot of improvement to be done on their part when it comes to casting the game. They definitely do not come close to Tastosis when those two are actually focused on the game instead of something like their favourite colour. I compare them to Tastosis specifically because that's the quality of casting knowledge and play-by-play I've come to expect out of English broadcasts coming out of Korea. It's a lofty expectation to meet, but I think if they keep working hard and brush up more on their SC2 (SNM in particular, here), there's no reason why they can't do it. In the meantime, I'll continue watching Proleague and listening to them grow as casters.  | ||
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Juggernaut477
United States379 Posts
On January 22 2013 07:49 yaletown wrote: Thats interesting how everyone assumes that. I did too until I heard they are actually making more than wolf and kaldor. Really? Source? | ||
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Ender985
Spain910 Posts
SNV needs to do some more play-by-play and de-awkwardize his half-jokes a bit, Whiplash needs to get better at the analysis of the game, and the duo needs more chemistry; but those problems are nothing that some focused work can not solve. | ||
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Nathanias
United States290 Posts
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yaletown
Korea (South)110 Posts
Im in Korea. Lets just say i heard it from someone here. I didnt belive it either. I know others asked for too much. | ||
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elimzkE
Australia92 Posts
A good example was Stephano vs Sola. When Sola was battling at Stephano's third, the casters said about 10 - 15 times "Sola has the roach advantage." We can SEE that, guys. Like holy shit, how many fucking times do we need to be told the same shit? Their extended game knowledge is garbage. They don't know openers, they can't read tech or resources and they absolutely have no idea what sort of damage certain pushes do at various times of the game. Considering this is ProLeague, aka THE stream I should be showing my friends that I want to get into SC2, this is the most abysmal shit I could have asked for. Sure they're improving, but I want legitimately good casters NOW for ProLeague. Bring these guys on in a year when they've developed enough game knowledge to get themselves out of bronze. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On January 22 2013 04:57 tomatriedes wrote: It was so stupid that they didn't let DOA cast- honestly he would have been way better. Typical KESPA control-freaking as usual. This is a pretty wide misconception that a lot of people have about the whole Doa situation. Doa works for OGN, therefore if Kespa wanted Doa to cast for them, they would need to contract OGN to provide the english Proleague stream. I guess there were talks to that effect, but they fell through. I don't know what took place in these talks and whether it was an issue of Kespa being too controlling, or money, or what. In any case, understand that there's a world of difference between hiring your own casters and letting another company take control over your broadcast. | ||
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
This will probably change. I disliked Gretorp when he first began to cast for NASL as well and now I love his casting. I do however feel like this casting job is a little to big to use as a learning experience. | ||
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