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SPL Casters (SNM/Whiplash) Appreciation/Criticism - Page 14

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KirA_TheGreaT
Profile Joined April 2011
France204 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-21 18:45:02
January 21 2013 18:44 GMT
#261
snm voice is annoying, whiplash voice is okay although i didn't really tried to understand everything he said ( i don't know how good they are at the game )
Most incredible thing is that i had to make "in depth" search on google to actually know who is who.
Jinjaa
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom5 Posts
January 21 2013 18:51 GMT
#262
It just feels to me like they've been forced to cast this sometimes. I rarely feel like they have much passion for the game, they obviously care alot for the players and the team's, but I still feel like they don't play SC2 all that much.
NotoriousBig
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Germany301 Posts
January 21 2013 18:51 GMT
#263
Why not employing someone who is good at casting or atleast knows what he does and make the price a bit higher, should be possible,
right?
derpface
Profile Joined October 2012
Sweden925 Posts
January 21 2013 18:58 GMT
#264
I dislike when people complain or hate on something just because they can.

If you dont like to listen you can just mute or actually try to feedback in a constructive way.

Deal with it.
gg no re #_< no1 Hydra and Leta fan >_#
KanoCoke
Profile Joined June 2011
Japan863 Posts
January 21 2013 18:58 GMT
#265
Makes you wonder how good it would have been with Kaelaris in there.

I wonder who else was contacted though. Obviously the GSL casters are off-limits, and Bitterdam are in NASL, but I'm sure they could've gotten people like Orb and Apollo if they tried hard enough. Kaelaris too. After all, they only really need just 3 or 4 days for events like Dreamhack and IEM.
Will always cheer for: MMA Bomber Taeja Curious Life herO Zest
CajunMan
Profile Joined July 2010
United States823 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-21 18:59:37
January 21 2013 18:58 GMT
#266
Whiplash can be alright but the other guy just *facepalm* if artosis is a 10/10 whip lash is 6/10 other guy is 3/10. I wish they would fly me out lol at least I would know what I was talking about.
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-21 19:10:20
January 21 2013 19:08 GMT
#267
On January 22 2013 03:58 derpface wrote:
I dislike when people complain or hate on something just because they can.

If you dont like to listen you can just mute or actually try to feedback in a constructive way.

Deal with it.

This is a thread asking for feedback. As it happens to be, a majority of people do not have a very positive opinion of their work, so of course a lot of criticism is voiced. If you want to forbid criticism, then this shouldn't be a feedback thread but a fan club thread.

If you don't like to read criticism you can just avoid reading this kind of thread or actually open a fan club for them.

Deal with it.
Get off my lawn, young punks
IM_Junior
Profile Joined April 2012
Mexico29 Posts
January 21 2013 19:11 GMT
#268
Personally i like to hear new voices casting Starcraft games, but definitively i think they need improvement, but it is alright for me ... :D ...
Zerg for life !!! --- DRG / Stephano / Leenock / Life and Nesteaaaaaa
Statyk
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada41 Posts
January 21 2013 19:14 GMT
#269
On January 22 2013 03:58 derpface wrote:
I dislike when people complain or hate on something just because they can.

If you dont like to listen you can just mute or actually try to feedback in a constructive way.

Deal with it.

I would argue that most people in this thread are being relatively constructive, although most of the responses lean towards the negative. If, by chance, the casters read the criticism and work on improving their faults, it'll be a great benefit to everyone.

Example: Jaedong vs Argo, Game #2 last night, mid-game (me paraphrasing):

SNM: Jaedong is extremely behind, it will be a long time before he can afford to start a 4th base.
Me: **Look at minimap, 4th base started, half complete**

These errors occur basically every game and are like nails on a chalkboard.
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
January 21 2013 19:14 GMT
#270
I think they need to work better as a duo. I get the impression that they are both used to solo casting. I do not know what to recommend, but perhaps they could get some advice from casters who are used to working a part of a pair.
EthanML
Profile Joined May 2011
Northern Ireland55 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-21 19:18:12
January 21 2013 19:17 GMT
#271
They are unacceptably terrible. This isn't a charity, if you get paid to do something it is not unreasonable for people to expect you have to have even the slightest talent for it - "You couldn't do better" is NOT an argument, myself and others didn't decide to make it our job. They are really just the worst.
I imagine the SPL will lock down a proper casting duo for next season as soon as they can and just ride it out with these guys while they have to.

User was warned for this post
TrippSC2
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States209 Posts
January 21 2013 19:30 GMT
#272
On January 22 2013 03:58 derpface wrote:
I dislike when people complain or hate on something just because they can.

If you dont like to listen you can just mute or actually try to feedback in a constructive way.

Deal with it.

Being constructive would imply that the poster feels that the problem is fixable. Making blatantly wrong statements about the game state consistently and generally not understanding even the ultra basics of the game doesn't really leave you much in terms of value from their commentary. In my mind, this is the equivalent of a Bronze player asking for strategy advice, when really they just need to get better at the ultra basics of the game.

I'm generally pretty easygoing when it comes to casters, but I did mute the stream and went to Nathanias's RaidCall when I've watched Proleague the past. I always start off giving them a chance to show improvement, but I've been disappointed every time.

You're also welcome to "deal with" people complaining about them, as well. It kind of goes both ways, especially since this is a designated feedback thread.


FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
January 21 2013 19:33 GMT
#273
Only thing that I found disturbing was the word "however" after a while atleast. It takes some time to get used to each other. Not everyone can be grandmaster on day one.
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States8064 Posts
January 21 2013 19:44 GMT
#274
I think it's funny most people say they like Whiplash more than SNM because I feel the opposite.

Both of them have been improving though, so hopefully they keep getting better and better.
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
January 21 2013 19:48 GMT
#275
On January 22 2013 01:41 OpticalShot wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I've tuned in to quite a few games this season and here's what I've got to say about the English casting duo:

- It's not that bad. Honestly, I don't think it's as bad as some people say it is. I've heard much worse (English) amateur/semi-professional casting for BW/SC2 for all these years and I think the SNM+Whiplash duo is better than a whole lot of them.

- More teamwork, please! One thing that stands out as a major area of improvement is teamwork. Instead of building on each other's points, the SNM+Whiplash casting often wanders in two different directions as each caster tries to carry his own train of thought with very little regards to the other. Rookie mistake? Maybe. The beauty of the original Korean casting team (@ OGN) is that with over a decade of experience, they have amazing teamwork and build up the excitement piece by piece until the GG.

Let me give you a Mario Strikers (Wii) example: the original OGN team tries to score by doing connecting a bunch of sick passes to build up the ball charge then scores with the biggest one-timer, GG. The SNM+Whiplash duo is kind of like Toad and Hammer Bro trying to score individually with their skill/charge shots. The amazing string of passes from the OGN team manages to avoid the tackles (hate and criticism) from the defending team (the "eSports fans") and when the slow-mo for the big shot is engaged, everyone gets absorbed into the moment before the play culminates in an epic goal. On the other side, the newbie Toad trying to solo through the defenders gets crushed (by the defending team / eSports fans) into the electric fence, ball is loose, Hammer Bro picks it up, right away starts charging for the hammer shot, before get demolished in the face by the defending team again.

Was that confusing? Point: needs better teamwork!

- Less stating the obvious, needs more depth and breadth. This is a fairly general statement and it comes with a bunch of exceptions and things but the point is, casters need to offer something that the viewers can't get on his/her own. It can be anything from past match statistics to player-specific jokes as long as it's based on something factual. We don't want to know about what you (caster) did on ladder two weeks ago, we want to know why the player is doing an unusual build in this specific map and what consequences it may lead to. It's not asking for mind-reading capabilities, it's asking for a well-constructed "educated guess" on the situation. Saying "oh he's doing immortal-sentry all-in again, it's a powerful build when done right, opponent is in big trouble" and "this immortal-sentry may work better on this map due to x and y and on top of that, the opponent is totally not expecting it as you can see from his build, so in z minutes we can expect him to be completely shocked" seems similar, but the viewer gets more satisfaction from that extra bit of expert information.

- Don't get excited before we do. We, the self-entitled viewers, want to be excited. We don't care if you are. It's the reality and it's your job so it's up to you (the casters) to make up for it. Like I said above, you need teamwork to build up excitement. Pass on the analysis back and forth, add and pad on the chain of thought, and don't be afraid to sound like a crazy dog if the situation calls for it. Even after a big main army battle and the seconds before the inevitable GG, float our hopes up there with stuff like "we can almost feel his despair as he gathers his remaining armies, hoping for a miracle" instead of "and the supply difference is 170 to 60 as we wait for him to GG out".

- Respect both old BW-veterans and newcomers to SC2. It's okay and maybe even beneficial to reference BW once in a while - what's wrong with comparing the current state of the game with its roots? I think it's good for all viewers to know stuff like how a player's specific style evolved since his BW days, or how he adapted his style with the new/changed unit dynamics. One thing I have to say here though, is that you shouldn't use BW references if you aren't sure about is details. It makes us (who actually know a little more than you do about certain aspects) disgusted.

There was one game where Crazy (BW: Crazy-Hydra) was making a ton of lings, and you blabbed on for the last ~10 minutes of the game how this style is like the Crazy Zerg style from BW where you pump lings non-stop and toss them at the enemy until they get overwhelmed. Well, that's a small part of the actual strategy, and you missed the core point of it. The Crazy Zerg style indeed makes a lot of lings - but for a specific purpose. In BW ZvT, transitioning from Lair tech to Hive tech can be done in various ways - but commonly the zerg player morphs a handful of lurkers to hold ramps, occupy key map positions, and maybe even try drop plays. The Crazy Zerg strategy skips that. While microing the heart out of the mutalisk stack and keeping Terran player disjointed, the Zerg player pumps lings and immediately techs to Hive with no other gas expenses (maybe except ground unit defence upgrades). The point of Crazy Zerg is to reach Hive tech very fast and with lots of gas (even on 2 or 3 gas situations) so that once you reach Hive, you can immediately produce ultralisks (skip defilers because they are for pussies) and immediately overpower the Terran player. So yes, lots of lings are sacrificed, but the point is to reach Hive and make fast ultralisks. Casting time is short and the game is intense, so I understand that you can't explain all this in detail even if you knew it. However, I got sick of hearing "oh this is like Crazy Zerg from BW" "in BW there is this Crazy Zerg style where you pump lings" "Crazy about to win with Crazy Zerg style from BW" "Crazy, using Crazy Zerg style from BW, takes the set for KT" etc. A 10-second context information like "this is similar to Crazy Zerg from BW - but instead of going fast Hive + ultralisks like in BW Crazy Zerg, [in this game of SC2 right now] he's just going to try to finish his opponent with tons of zerglings!" would have got the job done properly.

- Most of all, keep the enthusiasm up! I've written huge blocks of text above because I genuinely want to raise the English casting level up a few notches so that the viewers (including myself) can have a better experience. Thanks for the efforts and GLHF!


This is a perfect example of constructive criticism. I wish more people would take time to actually put thought into their posts instead of just downright whining. Well said, I whole-heartedly agree.
AdministratorBreak the chains
Corrupted
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1255 Posts
January 21 2013 19:49 GMT
#276
On January 22 2013 03:58 derpface wrote:
I dislike when people complain or hate on something just because they can.

If you dont like to listen you can just mute or actually try to feedback in a constructive way.

Deal with it.



I advise you take your own advice and not click on this thread.

I personally have muted 95% of the SPL. Something tells me the people running the show would want to avoid me doing that. In order to avoid that, they'd have to know there is a problem in the first place.

Anyway, I just wish they'd use someone that has some standing in the community and is widely enjoyed by most people already. This doesn't seem like the level of event that should be a testing ground for unproven and personality-lacking casters.

SPL is awesome and doesn't deserve anything less out of their commentators.
"MarineKing rolling double sevens there" -Artosis
LTY
Profile Joined November 2012
United States223 Posts
January 21 2013 19:51 GMT
#277
I like their casting. It seems alright. But is there anyway to listen to korean castnig?
I'm korean and I would prefer to listen to Korean casting over English casting even though I like SNM's casting voice.
Known as Miso or LTY
KanoCoke
Profile Joined June 2011
Japan863 Posts
January 21 2013 19:55 GMT
#278
On January 22 2013 04:44 Vasoline73 wrote:
I think it's funny most people say they like Whiplash more than SNM because I feel the opposite.

Both of them have been improving though, so hopefully they keep getting better and better.

He has a relatively low level of knowledge regarding the game itself, but he has a clear voice and doesn't fumble with his speaking as much as SNM does. Game knowledge will improve over time, and if he's really dedicated to his job like the big-name casters are, he'll do his research by watching VODs for premiere tournaments like MLG, GSL, Dreamhack and IEM, and actually play the game on a relatively high level in order to find out trends, patterns and to quickly gather what is going on and what will most likely be happening soon from simply looking at the situation at hand. After all, working as an analyst with outdated information is an easy way to get fired in the real world.

Analytical casters like Artosis, Apollo and Rotterdam play on the ladder at very high levels, and you can see it showing through their analysis during games. Day9 also used to play at a very high level until after the first few ladder seasons, when he had the time to do so.
Will always cheer for: MMA Bomber Taeja Curious Life herO Zest
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
January 21 2013 19:57 GMT
#279
On January 22 2013 03:44 StarMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 03:32 Cel.erity wrote:
On January 22 2013 03:28 Jedclark wrote:
It was silly to hire them. For the most professional and respected team league in SC2, you don't hire casters and say, "Oh, don't worry. They'll get to the required level in time" - they're either at that level, or they don't get the job.


I'm guessing there are no more than 3-4 qualified individuals who are willing to accept the job. What's with all these posts that assume there are waves of casters lining up to quit their job/schooling, move to the other side of the world, and get paid slightly more than minimum wage?


Doa and... others (don't recall) were going to cast PL, and then KESPA fucked them over. Doa even made a post about it because he thought they wouldn't have an English cast at all.

Afterwards, they gave the casting over to the foreign scene (EG, TL, IPL) and they did a good job at first. I wish they just continued to do this. I'll take random IPL casters over these guys.


It was so stupid that they didn't let DOA cast- honestly he would have been way better. Typical KESPA control-freaking as usual.
Ambre
Profile Joined July 2011
France416 Posts
January 21 2013 19:58 GMT
#280
One of the most frustrating thing is that we are in a business where tons of qualified people would have done a better job.

I am okay for giving a chance to new faces (in fact, I think it's necessary), but come on, why on earth would you chose those two for such an important league, this just blows my mind.
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self." - Aldous Huxley
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