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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
February 23 2018 20:39 GMT
#199321
No, New Jersey v. TLO isn't on point, but it does describe the compelling school interests and affirm the basic point that students' rights are more circumscribed at school than the rights of adults generally, which Tinker and other cases also point out. But yes, Tinker controls.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
February 23 2018 20:53 GMT
#199322
Isn't the real problem for the school that the administrator openly stated that he would punish them for their speech, as opposed to being tardy or anything else?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-23 20:54:59
February 23 2018 20:53 GMT
#199323
Yes, but that is only to assure the school’s activities are not disrupted by students. And that authority ends once the students leave school grounds. Simply leaving school grounds in a walkout is not sufficiently disruptive to warrant any special punishment or special action against the students. I can tell you that this is not the first fight on this subject and my understanding schools lost this fight long ago. Schools in my state inform teachers that they are legal prohibited from punishing kids for activity that takes place outside of school.

On February 24 2018 05:53 On_Slaught wrote:
Isn't the real problem for the school that the administrator openly stated that he would punish them for their speech, as opposed to being tardy or anything else?

Yes. He can punish them for breaking school rules, but not for anything they did outside of school.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
February 23 2018 21:18 GMT
#199324
If these protests aren't even happening at the school, how in the world would the school have any power whatsoever?

Walk out of class --> go outside school property --> protest

Am I missing something?
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13956 Posts
February 23 2018 21:25 GMT
#199325
On February 24 2018 06:18 Mohdoo wrote:
If these protests aren't even happening at the school, how in the world would the school have any power whatsoever?

Walk out of class --> go outside school property --> protest

Am I missing something?

Its the walking out of class in a coordinated effort part that you're missing. Schools like to exhibit the ability to discipline kids for whatever reason they can think of whenever they feel like it. To them this is just another insult to their authority.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
February 23 2018 21:33 GMT
#199326
On February 24 2018 06:25 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2018 06:18 Mohdoo wrote:
If these protests aren't even happening at the school, how in the world would the school have any power whatsoever?

Walk out of class --> go outside school property --> protest

Am I missing something?

Its the walking out of class in a coordinated effort part that you're missing. Schools like to exhibit the ability to discipline kids for whatever reason they can think of whenever they feel like it. To them this is just another insult to their authority.


And...? I highly doubt "but your honor, those children insulted my authority by walking out and protesting school shootings." Will go very far in court, and it will go even less far in the court of public opinion which will take an absolutely devastating shit all over that school if they try anything like that.
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 23 2018 21:37 GMT
#199327
Schools do not have an on staff attorney to tell them if their new policy plan is legal, so these mistakes happen more often that you would think. There was a school in MA that created a dress code, with the school board’s approval, that prohibited some cloths and excessively “styled” hair. There was a real classism problem in the school that all the parents wanted to address, where rich kids were basically harassing poor kids for not being able to afford expensive cloths.

The result however, was like 4-5 black girls being sent home for having hair extensions. And if you know anything about why black girls get hair extension, it’s often to make it so their hair manageable. A bunch of teachers pointed out that maybe the policy was poorly written and might be negatively impacting black students. The school doubled down because rules are rules and they could not draft rule that might result in some accidently racism. They sent the girl’s home a bunch more times and then the AG and ACLU got involved. Now the rule is changed, but not before the administrators had to prove how dumb they can be.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
February 23 2018 21:37 GMT
#199328
I think the less than respectable thing that will become clear is that a lot of school administrators and whatnot really do get a kick out of just being in charge of a lot of children. They get a sick kick out of the authority.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13956 Posts
February 23 2018 21:37 GMT
#199329
On February 24 2018 06:33 hunts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2018 06:25 Sermokala wrote:
On February 24 2018 06:18 Mohdoo wrote:
If these protests aren't even happening at the school, how in the world would the school have any power whatsoever?

Walk out of class --> go outside school property --> protest

Am I missing something?

Its the walking out of class in a coordinated effort part that you're missing. Schools like to exhibit the ability to discipline kids for whatever reason they can think of whenever they feel like it. To them this is just another insult to their authority.


And...? I highly doubt "but your honor, those children insulted my authority by walking out and protesting school shootings." Will go very far in court, and it will go even less far in the court of public opinion which will take an absolutely devastating shit all over that school if they try anything like that.

Yeah. But for every time this ever blows up in their face and gets any sort of media attention it happens dozens of times and nothing happens. This is just a corporate culture type thing.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
February 23 2018 21:47 GMT
#199330
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 23 2018 22:03 GMT
#199331
On February 24 2018 06:37 Mohdoo wrote:
I think the less than respectable thing that will become clear is that a lot of school administrators and whatnot really do get a kick out of just being in charge of a lot of children. They get a sick kick out of the authority.

There is a bit of that, but there is also a bit of leaning into rules to avoid making judgment calls you can be held accountable for. People like rules to be like math. Action + rule = result They are more comfortable with strict compliance than deciding if the rule needs to be enforced in each specific case. Its like zero tolerance rules are so popular and also complete garbage.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
February 23 2018 22:07 GMT
#199332
On February 24 2018 07:03 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2018 06:37 Mohdoo wrote:
I think the less than respectable thing that will become clear is that a lot of school administrators and whatnot really do get a kick out of just being in charge of a lot of children. They get a sick kick out of the authority.

There is a bit of that, but there is also a bit of leaning into rules to avoid making judgment calls you can be held accountable for. People like rules to be like math. Action + rule = result They are more comfortable with strict compliance than deciding if the rule needs to be enforced in each specific case. Its like zero tolerance rules are so popular and also complete garbage.


I'll never understand how zero tolerance rules ever came to be. It is a conscious decision to opt out of using your brain when making decisions. So fucking awful.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 23 2018 22:14 GMT
#199333
On February 24 2018 07:07 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2018 07:03 Plansix wrote:
On February 24 2018 06:37 Mohdoo wrote:
I think the less than respectable thing that will become clear is that a lot of school administrators and whatnot really do get a kick out of just being in charge of a lot of children. They get a sick kick out of the authority.

There is a bit of that, but there is also a bit of leaning into rules to avoid making judgment calls you can be held accountable for. People like rules to be like math. Action + rule = result They are more comfortable with strict compliance than deciding if the rule needs to be enforced in each specific case. Its like zero tolerance rules are so popular and also complete garbage.


I'll never understand how zero tolerance rules ever came to be. It is a conscious decision to opt out of using your brain when making decisions. So fucking awful.

It comes from the same place that the three strikes laws come from. Humans like nice ordered rules and clear results. Break laws three times, you get the book thrown at you because you didn’t learn. This school doesn’t tolerate any student violence, period. No exceptions. No second chances or ability to talk your way out of it.

People eat that stuff up. We love it. Its clean, no messy human judgment or mistakes because we let people have to many second chances. Its like math. Clean and simple.

And its complete garbage. It results in stupid enforcement with no ability to say “we didn’t intend this.” In the case of law, it results in mass incarceration for non-violent crimes.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 23 2018 22:38 GMT
#199334
As a groundswell grows against the National Rifle Association in the aftermath of last week's school massacre in Parkland, Fla., several businesses say they are ending their partnerships with the gun advocacy group.

The brands — ranging from insurance companies to rental cars — all announced their decisions on Twitter, many in direct response to tweets demanding change coalesced under the trending hashtag #boycottNRA.

On Friday, Symantec, the cybersecurity company, announced via Twitter it has halted its NRA discount program.

About an hour later, the insurance company MetLife followed suit, tweeting, "We value all our customers but have decided to end our discount program with the NRA."

A day earlier, First National Bank of Omaha announced via tweet that it "will not renew its contract with the National Rifle Association to issue the NRA Visa Card." It was responding to a tweet saying "Please END your relationship with the @NRA. #NRABloodOnYourHands." The bank said "customer feedback" spurred it to review its relationship with the NRA.

Later Thursday, Enterprise Holdings, which owns and operates car rental agencies Alamo, Enterprise and National, announced via tweets from each brand's account that by March 26 it would sever its NRA member discount program.

Company spokespeople would not elaborate on the announcements.

The NRA did not respond to an NPR request for comment.

On its website the NRA says, "It pays to be a member! Get back hundreds of dollars more than you pay in dues" and offers "benefits" running the gamut from home and auto insurance to prescription drug discounts to the "Official Wine Club of the NRA."

On Tuesday, ThinkProgress, a liberal-leaning think tank, published a list of some two dozen "corporate partners" that offer incentives to NRA members. ThinkProgess says it asked all of the corporations "whether they plan to continue their relationships with the gun lobby. Four of those companies have ended their relationship with the NRA since this list was initially published."

Under car rental discounts, Hertz, Avis and Budget are still listed as "NRA partners."

Social media users have taken to Twitter in an effort to name and shame those companies and others for their NRA affiliation.

NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre addressed the annual Conservative Political Action Conference Thursday and spoke of "the breakneck speed for gun control laws," following the Florida shooting. "As usual, the opportunists wasted not one second to exploit tragedy for political gain," he said.

Proponents of the NRA have also used the hashtag #BoycottNRA to express support for the group.

On Friday, Reuters reported Chubb would no longer underwrite NRA insurance for gun owners. A spokesperson told NPR that decision had been made some time ago. "Three months ago, Chubb provided notice of our intent to discontinue participation in the NRA Carry Guard insurance program under the terms of our contract," Chubb said in a statement.

Also Friday, Wyndham Worldwide, parent company of major hotel brands including Travelodge, Howard Johnson, Ramada and Days Inn, tweeted that it "is no longer affiliated with the NRA."

ThinkProgress reports Wyndham Worldwide stopped offering NRA discounts following a pressure campaign after the Sandy Hook shooting. "We ended our relationship with the NRA late last year," a spokesperson told NPR.

Meanwhile, some teachers in Florida were unsettled to learn earlier this week that the retirement funds to which they've been contributing invest in the gun company that produced the weapon used in the Parkland attack. Bloomberg News reports the Florida Retirement System Pension Plan held more than 41,000 shares in American Outdoor Brands Co. (formerly Smith & Wesson), maker of the semi-automatic AR-15 used by the shooter.

The president of the Florida teachers union has called for the fund to divest itself of shares. But the Washington Post reports that a spokesman with the state pension fund said that is unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Student survivors of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting that left 17 of their classmates and educators dead are also using their platform to increase pressure on the NRA.

On Wednesday, at a CNN town hall, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio broke with an NRA stance when he announced he would support raising the age from 18 to 21 for "buying a rifle." He was responding to a question from student survivor Cameron Kasky. However, during the same exchange, Rubio refused to say he would renounce NRA donations. (Rubio has earned the NRA's highest rating, A+.)

Stoneman Douglas survivors have also mobilized students from across the country, who have been protesting, staging school walkouts and calling on legislators to act.

"March for Our Lives," a national rally, is planned in Washington, D.C., on March 24.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
February 23 2018 23:39 GMT
#199335
....
© Current year.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21705 Posts
February 23 2018 23:40 GMT
#199336
On February 24 2018 08:39 CorsairHero wrote:
....
https://twitter.com/politico/status/967176047543406593

When scumbags unite
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-23 23:56:03
February 23 2018 23:55 GMT
#199337
I guess it does take balls to repeal net neutrality when an overwhelming majority of America supports it. Though not sure if that's precisely the angle the NRA was going for.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
February 23 2018 23:59 GMT
#199338
When the internet mobs bring him to the guillotine for his moral failings, at least we will be able to respect that he had the balls to do the scummy things he actually did.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
February 24 2018 00:03 GMT
#199339
I mean, Ajit Pai's getting investigated for bribery or something because of some broadcast rules he shunted in for a network.

Shouldn't be too shocking that the NRA respects a man that will accept money for deregulation in the face of sense and consumer interest.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
February 24 2018 00:03 GMT
#199340
"Hey, we've noticed that you did something that went against overwhelming popular consensus, and even common sense, in a move to put more money in your own pocket. We like what you're doing, here's a trophy." - the NRA

And I guess we also missed the bit where Gates folded and pled guilty:

The next domino has fallen.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
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