EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 9966
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On February 24 2018 02:13 Plansix wrote: The reporters at NPR said they felt it was unlikely anything will change in the short term. But we have an entire generation of kids become voting age that grew up with active shooter drills. In the 1980s, the discussion about nuclear disarmament took place because a generation of kids had grown up with bomb drills and were now the voting public. The NRA tactic of drumming up fear works because they have an active, grass roots activist network that are basically single issue voters. It is tough to tell now, but they could be facing an equally invested grass roots movement wants to end the era of mass shootings. Because we have about 2-3 of these a year. I agree with NPR's take on it. All evidence points towards these things getting WORSE, not better. There must be a tipping point, where your culture either falls apart or says 'no more' and actually tries to do something. 2-3 major shootings a year is... obscene. But what if it goes up to 4 a year? 5? 6? What if it becomes one a MONTH? There has to be a limit, a point where your society simply can't take it anymore. You can't use the constitution as a shield forever, where the right to live has to trump the right to bear arms. I don't think this is it, personally. It's a powerful time and it's emotive, and these students are kicking up the biggest stink they can. Also, the far right's conspiracy tactics and mud-slinging seems to have completely backfired on this one, which definitely helps. Or it seems to from here. What sort of response are you folks seeing in response to the 'kids are actors' crowd or the 'kids have been coached to make this political by Demoncrats' crowd? | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 24 2018 02:37 Plansix wrote: Cops are not unbiased and bring their baggage to everything they do, just like the rest of us. But they also have +30 years of pro-cop TV shows and law and order framing the justice system as fair and mostly unbiased. Even the bad cops are lionized as people forced to do bad things in the name of the justice. There's also just sort of a lot of misinformation around what cops do right? Like "Protect and Serve" is basically just a bunch of made up words the same way Budweiser is the "King of Beers". My impression is that most people (at least those unaffected by police activity) don't really reconcile the police with the fact they are not obligated with any sort of duty to protect someone or enforce the law to any higher standard than you are held to by your own mundane job responsibilities (other than societal pressure). | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23491 Posts
On February 24 2018 02:47 Logo wrote: There's also just sort of a lot of misinformation around what cops do right? Like "Protect and Serve" is basically just a bunch of made up words the same way Budweiser is the "King of Beers". My impression is that most people (at least those unaffected by police activity) don't really reconcile the police with the fact they are not obligated with any sort of duty to protect someone or enforce the law to any higher standard than you are held to by your own mundane job responsibilities. Less so really. They have union protection on a level most could only dream plus a blue wall that makes "snitches get stitches" sound like child's play. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 24 2018 02:51 GreenHorizons wrote: Less so really. They have union protection on a level most could only dream plus a blue wall that makes "snitches get stitches" sound like child's play. I’m pro-labor rights for almost every profession except for law enforcement. Police unions are designed to protect bad cops from oversight, plain and simple. If there was some sort of independent oversight for police, it would a different story. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
Three car rental brands, a bank and a cybersecurity firm have cut ties with the National Rifle Association. A spokesperson for Symantec (SYMC), which makes the Norton anti-virus software and owns the identity theft protection company LifeLock, said Friday that it has "stopped its discount program" for NRA members. Enterprise Holdings -- which runs the Enterprise, Alamo and National car rental groups -- tweeted Thursday evening to say that the discount deal it had with the NRA will end on March 26. Also on Thursday, the First National Bank of Omaha pledged to stop issuing an NRA-branded Visa card. money.cnn.com | ||
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Sermokala
United States14048 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
On February 24 2018 03:46 Sermokala wrote: Does anyone really think these stories about brands cutting ties with the NRA is real news? They can just quietly resign with them later when the media isn't looking and nothing will change. Yeah, this whole thing is super minor. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9735 Posts
Please be advised that the Needville ISD will not allow a student demonstration during school hours for any type of protest or awareness!!” the letter states. “Should students choose to do so, they will be suspended from school for 3 days and face all the consequences that come along with an out of school suspension. Life is all about choices and every choice has a consequence whether it be positive or negative. We will discipline no matter if it is one, fifty, or five hundred students involved.Please be advised that the Needville ISD will not allow a student demonstration during school hours for any type of protest or awareness!!” the letter states. “Should students choose to do so, they will be suspended from school for 3 days and face all the consequences that come along with an out of school suspension. Life is all about choices and every choice has a consequence whether it be positive or negative. We will discipline no matter if it is one, fifty, or five hundred students involved. | ||
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farvacola
United States18839 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On February 24 2018 04:14 Plansix wrote: The ACLU has already said they will take any student’s cases and a bunch of very good schools in my state have already said they will not take the suspension into account for admissions and encourage civil engagement. The ACLU can take the cases, but they don't have much of a prayer of winning. Case law is pretty settled on the point that schools have damned near dictatorial powers and the kids have virtually no rights at school. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 24 2018 04:37 xDaunt wrote: The ACLU can take the cases, but they don't have much of a prayer of winning. Case law is pretty settled on the point that schools have damned near dictatorial powers and the kids have virtually no rights at school. All you need to do is make it enough of a headache and the school will back down. Which is likely to happen even before the ACLU gets involved if enough kids walk out. For example, if 500+ students are absent that day how accurate is the schools' record keeping, would they actually be able to prove who is and isn't at school? They may if teachers rat out their students, but I've seen days of mass truancy (major sport victory for example) and teachers go in expecting it and they don't seem to snitch. | ||
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farvacola
United States18839 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 24 2018 04:37 xDaunt wrote: The ACLU can take the cases, but they don't have much of a prayer of winning. Case law is pretty settled on the point that schools have damned near dictatorial powers and the kids have virtually no rights at school. Ok, every single attorney in my firm disagrees and believes the school administrators are being wildly stupid in attempting to punish the kids any more severally than normal. It was the only topic around the coffee maker this morning. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On February 24 2018 04:45 Plansix wrote: Ok, every single attorney in my firm disagrees and believes the school administrators are being wildly stupid in attempting to punish the kids any more severally than normal. It was the only topic around the coffee maker this morning. I'm guessing that they haven't look at New Jersey v. TLO recently. The compelling interest of the school to maintain discipline is what's going to control here. And we already know under regular First Amendment jurisprudence that free speech is subject to reasonable time and location requirements. The school is well-within its bounds to stop these protests. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On February 24 2018 05:11 xDaunt wrote: I'm guessing that they haven't look at New Jersey v. TLO recently. The compelling interest of the school to maintain discipline is what's going to control here. And we already know under regular First Amendment jurisprudence that free speech is subject to reasonable time and location requirements. The school is well-within its bounds to stop these protests. Why would TLO sue all of New Jersey? I thought he lived in Germany? Also if by some miracle you happen to be right and the school is "legally" allowed to punish all 500+ students for partaking in a protest, you know as well as anyone else (or at least should) that if they do so, they will be under such an enormous amount of public pressure for doing so that they will wholeheartedly wish they had not. | ||
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farvacola
United States18839 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 24 2018 05:11 xDaunt wrote: I'm guessing that they haven't look at New Jersey v. TLO recently. The compelling interest of the school to maintain discipline is what's going to control here. And we already know under regular First Amendment jurisprudence that free speech is subject to reasonable time and location requirements. The school is well-within its bounds to stop these protests. NEW JERSEY v. T. L. O. isn’t even on point. And the school only has that power if the protests take place on school grounds. The school has no power beyond that and the protests are not planned to take place at the schools. They also do not have the power to stop kids from walking out. Any attempt to punish them more severally that a normal walk out would likely be seen as an infringement on their right to protest. | ||
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