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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On December 19 2017 06:46 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:37 Slydie wrote:On December 19 2017 06:30 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 06:28 farvacola wrote:On December 19 2017 06:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists? Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times. Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months. AIPAC has been doing its best to dehumanize the Palestinians for decades; with folks like the Daunt and Ren eating out of their dirty hands, one can take their efforts as successful. It's not about dehumanizing Palestinians. That's quite besides the point. The real question is in what universe will the Palestinians EVER be pro-American? The obvious answer is that they will never be, so we should unequivocally support Israel. Israel is supported by the big christian population in the US mainly for religeous reasons, and therefore Israel can get away with everything. In other western countries, the Palestinians have more support, as they are the oppressed underdogs in the conflict. Also, be careful about overestimating Trump's symbolic recognicion of Jerusalem. There is no international support for his action, and actually does not matter much I don't really care about whether Trump has domestic support for the action or why. My only concern is what is good for the US. Israel is an ally and should be treated as such. The Palestinians will never be allies. For that reason alone, the US should dispense with this fiction of trying to be "fair" on the Israel/Palestine issue. Nor do I care what other Western countries think. They aren't going to throw the US overboard on account of Palestine for the same reasons that the Saudis and other Arab powers won't. The bottom line is that no one really cares about the Palestinians.
if your onl concern is what is good for the US then it doesn't matter that someone's an ally; you still do what's in your own interest. you have an alliance because your interests intersect.
you've also still failed to establish how we get anything more out of the alliance than we would have anyways.
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On December 19 2017 06:34 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:32 LegalLord wrote:
Let the world continue with their fixation upon sticking it to Israel while pretending it is borne of noble intentions. I'm glad the US finally did the right thing with this Jerusalem matter. Why do you characterize it in this way? I'm not anti-Israel at all, but its legitimate to question the validity of showing up in someone else's country and brutalizing the population. Of course, with your political allegiances and the recent Crimea thing I can see why you wouldn't mind that kind of thing.
Not on my computer (can’t search/link effectively) right now but I wrote up a longer post with my thoughts a little while back. Search it if you care.
The short version is, there is really no path to peace here. The opposition to Israel is borne of many false equivalencies and the desire for the other side for any genuine peace agreement is nonexistent. It’s time to drop the pretenses.
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Xdaunt: We should do what is good for the US. That means doing something that our military leaders and national security experts all say is bad and dangerous for the US.
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On December 19 2017 06:46 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:37 Slydie wrote:On December 19 2017 06:30 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 06:28 farvacola wrote:On December 19 2017 06:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists? Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times. Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months. AIPAC has been doing its best to dehumanize the Palestinians for decades; with folks like the Daunt and Ren eating out of their dirty hands, one can take their efforts as successful. It's not about dehumanizing Palestinians. That's quite besides the point. The real question is in what universe will the Palestinians EVER be pro-American? The obvious answer is that they will never be, so we should unequivocally support Israel. Israel is supported by the big christian population in the US mainly for religeous reasons, and therefore Israel can get away with everything. In other western countries, the Palestinians have more support, as they are the oppressed underdogs in the conflict. Also, be careful about overestimating Trump's symbolic recognicion of Jerusalem. There is no international support for his action, and actually does not matter much I don't really care about whether Trump has domestic support for the action or why. My only concern is what is good for the US. Israel is an ally and should be treated as such. The Palestinians will never be allies. For that reason alone, the US should dispense with this fiction of trying to be "fair" on the Israel/Palestine issue. Nor do I care what other Western countries think. They aren't going to throw the US overboard on account of Palestine for the same reasons that the Saudis and other Arab powers won't. The bottom line is that no one really cares about the Palestinians.
Might makes right is such a wonderful ethical framework. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
And it is so incredibly shortsighted. Do you really think that you are so isolated from anyone else in the world that pissing everyone off will never have negative consequences?
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The issue isn't so much the Middle East, because the US has shown that it doesn't really know what the fuck to do over there so this really isn't anything but batting for Israel, but elsewhere where there are high fundamentalist muslim populations. South East Asia isn't happy about this foreign policy decision, which is the real problem here since that's where political and economic influence over one of the fastest growing regions is being fought right now.
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Yeah but how many times has anyone ever mentioned Indonesia as a world player despite being OG OPEC and top 5 population?
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Fun thing is... Bush 1 knew what he did, he didn't get rid of sadam. Because he knew it would blow up. It took cheney and the retard son backed by morons like xdaunt to really to kick the can.
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On December 19 2017 06:52 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:46 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 06:37 Slydie wrote:On December 19 2017 06:30 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 06:28 farvacola wrote:On December 19 2017 06:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists? Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times. Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months. AIPAC has been doing its best to dehumanize the Palestinians for decades; with folks like the Daunt and Ren eating out of their dirty hands, one can take their efforts as successful. It's not about dehumanizing Palestinians. That's quite besides the point. The real question is in what universe will the Palestinians EVER be pro-American? The obvious answer is that they will never be, so we should unequivocally support Israel. Israel is supported by the big christian population in the US mainly for religeous reasons, and therefore Israel can get away with everything. In other western countries, the Palestinians have more support, as they are the oppressed underdogs in the conflict. Also, be careful about overestimating Trump's symbolic recognicion of Jerusalem. There is no international support for his action, and actually does not matter much I don't really care about whether Trump has domestic support for the action or why. My only concern is what is good for the US. Israel is an ally and should be treated as such. The Palestinians will never be allies. For that reason alone, the US should dispense with this fiction of trying to be "fair" on the Israel/Palestine issue. Nor do I care what other Western countries think. They aren't going to throw the US overboard on account of Palestine for the same reasons that the Saudis and other Arab powers won't. The bottom line is that no one really cares about the Palestinians. Might makes right is such a wonderful ethical framework. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. And it is so incredibly shortsighted. Do you really think that you are so isolated from anyone else in the world that pissing everyone off will never have negative consequences?
Like I have infamously argued before, ethics and morality aren't the ends of rational foreign policy. The self-interest of the nation is.
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On December 19 2017 06:39 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists? Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times. Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are generally a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months. Not all, no. Most people from every culture simply want to build a better life for their children. That includes the Palestinians. However, there is a violent sect within the Palestinian people, including their current leadership of Hamas, that will never accept peace. They will twist the minds of the young to continue the war. They will continue to fire rockets and set off bombs. No matter what Israel does, the terrorists will incite war until all the Israelis are dead. Even if all the terrorists were removed from Palestine, outside agitators will continue the war and develop new recruits. It’s the harsh reality of the Middle East. “Experts” do what they can to slow the growth of terrorism, but they do nothing to push it back because pushing it back means taking the fight to them. It means the deaths of innocent people who get caught up in it. In the short term, it even means more recruits to the terrorist cause. However, if you ever want peace in the Middle East, it only becomes a reality as a reaction to a terrible war.
I often get caught up in what could be called pedantry on here regarding language but I think its wise to call Palestinians who resort to extreme violence insurgents and not terrorists. Its a reminder of the political circumstances here (that's not to defend bombings or murders at all).
The idea that has been floated around on here is that if you are talking about actual terrorism (ie Palestinians bombing targets not in their home country) supporting Israel is only going to make more terrorists ad infinitum.
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On December 19 2017 06:57 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:52 Simberto wrote:On December 19 2017 06:46 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 06:37 Slydie wrote:On December 19 2017 06:30 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 06:28 farvacola wrote:On December 19 2017 06:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists? Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times. Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months. AIPAC has been doing its best to dehumanize the Palestinians for decades; with folks like the Daunt and Ren eating out of their dirty hands, one can take their efforts as successful. It's not about dehumanizing Palestinians. That's quite besides the point. The real question is in what universe will the Palestinians EVER be pro-American? The obvious answer is that they will never be, so we should unequivocally support Israel. Israel is supported by the big christian population in the US mainly for religeous reasons, and therefore Israel can get away with everything. In other western countries, the Palestinians have more support, as they are the oppressed underdogs in the conflict. Also, be careful about overestimating Trump's symbolic recognicion of Jerusalem. There is no international support for his action, and actually does not matter much I don't really care about whether Trump has domestic support for the action or why. My only concern is what is good for the US. Israel is an ally and should be treated as such. The Palestinians will never be allies. For that reason alone, the US should dispense with this fiction of trying to be "fair" on the Israel/Palestine issue. Nor do I care what other Western countries think. They aren't going to throw the US overboard on account of Palestine for the same reasons that the Saudis and other Arab powers won't. The bottom line is that no one really cares about the Palestinians. Might makes right is such a wonderful ethical framework. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. And it is so incredibly shortsighted. Do you really think that you are so isolated from anyone else in the world that pissing everyone off will never have negative consequences? Like I have infamously argued before, ethics and morality aren't the ends of rational foreign policy. The self-interest of the nation is.
So how is it not in the self interest of the USA to full stop 100% switch support from Israel ( a hated party in the ME) to Palestine (one that isnt)
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On December 19 2017 06:55 Sermokala wrote:
Yeah but how many times has anyone ever mentioned Indonesia as a world player despite being OG OPEC and top 5 population?
If we're talking about US foreign policy Indonesia is literally the worst thing that America has ever done. They supported a genocide and then raped the country of all its resources and enslaved its population.
But it was done in a kind of capitalistic way so the history books ignore it.
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On December 19 2017 06:57 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:52 Simberto wrote:On December 19 2017 06:46 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 06:37 Slydie wrote:On December 19 2017 06:30 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 06:28 farvacola wrote:On December 19 2017 06:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists? Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times. Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months. AIPAC has been doing its best to dehumanize the Palestinians for decades; with folks like the Daunt and Ren eating out of their dirty hands, one can take their efforts as successful. It's not about dehumanizing Palestinians. That's quite besides the point. The real question is in what universe will the Palestinians EVER be pro-American? The obvious answer is that they will never be, so we should unequivocally support Israel. Israel is supported by the big christian population in the US mainly for religeous reasons, and therefore Israel can get away with everything. In other western countries, the Palestinians have more support, as they are the oppressed underdogs in the conflict. Also, be careful about overestimating Trump's symbolic recognicion of Jerusalem. There is no international support for his action, and actually does not matter much I don't really care about whether Trump has domestic support for the action or why. My only concern is what is good for the US. Israel is an ally and should be treated as such. The Palestinians will never be allies. For that reason alone, the US should dispense with this fiction of trying to be "fair" on the Israel/Palestine issue. Nor do I care what other Western countries think. They aren't going to throw the US overboard on account of Palestine for the same reasons that the Saudis and other Arab powers won't. The bottom line is that no one really cares about the Palestinians. Might makes right is such a wonderful ethical framework. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. And it is so incredibly shortsighted. Do you really think that you are so isolated from anyone else in the world that pissing everyone off will never have negative consequences? Like I have infamously argued before, ethics and morality aren't the ends of rational foreign policy. The self-interest of the nation is.
except it has been proven quite thoroughly that the action is not in the self-interest of the nation; which leaves only the conclusion that you're basing it on hatred.
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On December 19 2017 06:44 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:39 RenSC2 wrote:On December 19 2017 06:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists? Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times. Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are generally a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months. Not all, no. Most people from every culture simply want to build a better life for their children. That includes the Palestinians. However, there is a violent sect within the Palestinian people, including their current leadership of Hamas, that will never accept peace. They will twist the minds of the young to continue the war. They will continue to fire rockets and set off bombs. No matter what Israel does, the terrorists will incite war until all the Israelis are dead. Even if all the terrorists were removed from Palestine, outside agitators will continue the war and develop new recruits. It’s the harsh reality of the Middle East. “Experts” do what they can to slow the growth of terrorism, but they do nothing to push it back because pushing it back means taking the fight to them. It means the deaths of innocent people who get caught up in it. In the short term, it even means more recruits to the terrorist cause. However, if you ever want peace in the Middle East, it only becomes a reality as a reaction to a terrible war. on which well-researched sources are you basing your claims/conclusions?
I’ll fully admit that these are my opinions based on my observations of the situation and parallels that I can draw from similar cases in human history.
Where are your well-researched sources? Are they from a think-tank doing the exact same thing that I am? Can they point to a similar intractable case in human history that was solved peacefully and turned out not to be intractable? Have their efforts as policy advisors actually made the Middle East more peaceful?
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t fully support Israel either. I think they have made significant blunders that have inflamed tensions unnecessarily. However, I do respect the right of Israel to exist and I respect the right of a country to declare its own capital. I don’t care about the response of terrorists when respecting those rights, with the exception of preparing for them.
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On December 19 2017 06:41 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:35 farvacola wrote:
And there it is again, "clearly mutually exclusive" as though this spiel isn't straight Likud party sycophancy.
Lol. Are you actually going to make an argument or are you just going to continue to embarrass yourself with idiotic and baseless sniping?
We can't make an argument against what you're saying. If your premises are true, you are correct. Of course your premises are aberrant, but you will never engage on your premises because the reason why they are premises in the first place is because you have carefully worded your arguments so that they are premises and not points to be engaged.
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On December 19 2017 06:39 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists? Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times. Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are generally a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months. Not all, no. Most people from every culture simply want to build a better life for their children. That includes the Palestinians. However, there is a violent sect within the Palestinian people, including their current leadership of Hamas, that will never accept peace. They will twist the minds of the young to continue the war. They will continue to fire rockets and set off bombs. No matter what Israel does, the terrorists will incite war until all the Israelis are dead. Even if all the terrorists were removed from Palestine, outside agitators will continue the war and develop new recruits. It’s the harsh reality of the Middle East. “Experts” do what they can to slow the growth of terrorism, but they do nothing to push it back because pushing it back means taking the fight to them. It means the deaths of innocent people who get caught up in it. In the short term, it even means more recruits to the terrorist cause. However, if you ever want peace in the Middle East, it only becomes a reality as a reaction to a terrible war.
Thank you for proving Trump haters can still be sane on the issues, including Middle East foreign policy.
Frankly, I draw the line at apologizing for Palestinian terrorism just to stick it to Trump and Israel. The more the US looks for appeasement (and the past years of failure to achieve that despite waiving the embassy move are telling), the more I see this whole thing ending in an invasion and true occupation.
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The thing about "americans" that is really staggering, is that they dont even know their own history. Like, its not important aside from the civil war... Its all under this umbrella of the "greatest generation" that fought WW2... Even the guys that fought in WW1 seem to be forgotten... Let alone anything before it or.. GASP.. Anything not american focussed.
Its really kinda sad...
We colonised, we threw tea into the sea, we fought each other, we owned hitler (russians did)... then we fought communism and won.
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Does any Israel supporter here want to make a single post about Palestinians that doesn't include the word terrorism or have you all been so utterly brainwashed by Murdoch that you can't form a single thought of your own?
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The party I love about all of this is that people think Israel will stop doing what they are doing and end the conflict quicker. Our grandchildren will be taking sides in the conflict as the meek numbers of Palestinians slowly die out and have their final property right revoked. Israel is on the path to victory. It is attrition. Their plan is to watch the Palestinians die off behind walls, with poor services and lack of opportunity.
Trump gave them what they wanted and got nothing beyond more enemies.
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xDaunt when you say self-interest of the nation, are you referring to what is objectively best for the nation? Or rather what is in the collective, subjective interest of the citizens of the nation?
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On December 19 2017 07:12 Plansix wrote:
The party I love about all of this is that people think Israel will stop doing what they are doing and end the conflict quicker. Our grandchildren will be taking sides in the conflict as the meek numbers of Palestinians slowly die out and have their final property right revoked. Israel is on the path to victory. It is attrition. Their plan is to watch the Palestinians die off behind walls, with poor services and lack of opportunity.
I said this earlier. Israel shouldn't want some quick victory here, the backlash would be too negative. The status quo plays directly into their hands.
What annoys me is that the innocent victims in all of this are the innocent Palestinians. Not the violent ones who target innocent Israelis, they are just as bad as the Israeli military, but the innocent families who have been brutalized in their own country.
As if that isn't bad enough, they get portrayed as terrorists and animals by xDaunt and the like because they are too simple minded to see the obvious truth that these people have been utterly wronged by Israel and the US, and the legacy of this occupation, and eventual extermination, is one of pure evil.
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EPT
