|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On December 19 2017 06:08 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 05:55 zlefin wrote:On December 19 2017 05:51 Introvert wrote:On December 19 2017 05:48 IyMoon wrote:On December 19 2017 05:42 Introvert wrote:On December 19 2017 05:29 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Tax cuts on the low income side are pretty much always renewed. What should be worrying to the Democrats is that 5% figure. That's super small, and prob a certain class of richer people. Also when Trump talked about infrastructure I'm pretty sure that Paul Ryan himself said that was on the agenda. I'm amused by people who think that Trump wouldn't support working with the Democrats on that. It's a portion of their own base that should be their concern. I have no doubt that Trump would work with democrats on this. That is not the point, the point is it is trumps job to start the conversation and he has not. He had choices on what to work on and he picked two things that said fuck you Dems I hear that Trump is mercurial, likes to make deals, would sign almost whatever came to his desk, and likes to be flattered. Sounds like there is room here! there could be; but that's not what started this discussion chain; what started it is the usual suspects spouting BS. you're also ignorin the oft-repeated point that the Dems don' thave the power to bring it to his desk. I didn't ignore It, I wrote that none other than Paul Ryan has said it's an agenda item. If Trump really wants it Ryan will accommodate.
edit-rewrite: in which asce trying to blame the dems is unjustified, which you were a party to.
|
United Kingdom10026 Posts
On December 19 2017 06:10 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:04 Plansix wrote:On December 19 2017 05:56 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:52 zlefin wrote:On December 19 2017 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:40 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/us-outnumbered-14-to-1-as-it-vetoes-un-vote-on-status-of-jerusalemA UN security council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has been backed by every council member except the US, which used its veto.
The unanimity of the rest of the council was a stark rebuke to the Trump administration over its unilateral move earlier this month, which upended decades of international consensus.
The Egyptian-drafted resolution did not specifically mention the US or Trump but expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem”.
A spokesman for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, responded to the veto by saying it was “unacceptable and threatens the stability of the international community because it disrespects it”.
The UK and France had indicated in advance that they would would back the text, which demanded that all countries comply with pre-existing UNSC resolutions on Jerusalem, dating back to 1967, including requirements that the city’s final status be decided in direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
The resolution was denounced in furious language by the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, who described it as “an insult” that would not be forgotten. “The United States will not be told by any country where we can put our embassy,” she said.
“It’s scandalous to say we are putting back peace efforts,” she added. “The fact that this veto is being done in defence of American sovereignty and in defence of America’s role in the Middle East peace process is not a source of embarrassment for us; it should be an embarrassment to the remainder of the security council.”
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, tweeted: “Thank you, Ambassador Haley. On Hanukkah, you spoke like a Maccabi. You lit a candle of truth. You dispel the darkness. One defeated the many. Truth defeated lies. Thank you, President Trump.” If you're in the Trump administration, every country in the world can tell you you're wrong and you just have to shout FAKE NEWS at the top of your voice to make yourself right. Trump doesn't need to yell "FAKE NEWS." He just has to yell "FUCK OFF," which he very clearly is doing. He's the first president who is bright enough to realize that it is not in America's interest to placate Palestine and the Arab states on this. Kudos to him. do you have any actual plan to address the situation? Yep, let Israel win. I personally don’t care who wins, but the plan of supporting Israel in its current path to victory is a long term problem for the US is the region. They are either going to go full trail of tears with 5 million people or the reverse Warsaw Ghetto system they are currently working on. It’s a fight we get nothing from supporting. Of course we get something. We get our own little pro-Western, modern version of Sparta in the region. Besides, it's not like we'd be giving up anything. The Palestinians are useless. The other major Arab states really don't give a shit despite their public proclamations as evidenced by the deepening strategic ties between Israel and the Saudis. The eunuchs at the UN can bitch all they want, but they clearly are powerless to do anything. Trump made the proclamation at the perfect time.
When you shove a few million pissed off refugees into someone's country without their permission they tend to start giving a shit.
|
On December 19 2017 06:11 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:05 m4ini wrote:On December 19 2017 06:02 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:59 Doodsmack wrote:On December 19 2017 05:56 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:52 zlefin wrote:On December 19 2017 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:40 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/us-outnumbered-14-to-1-as-it-vetoes-un-vote-on-status-of-jerusalemA UN security council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has been backed by every council member except the US, which used its veto.
The unanimity of the rest of the council was a stark rebuke to the Trump administration over its unilateral move earlier this month, which upended decades of international consensus.
The Egyptian-drafted resolution did not specifically mention the US or Trump but expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem”.
A spokesman for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, responded to the veto by saying it was “unacceptable and threatens the stability of the international community because it disrespects it”.
The UK and France had indicated in advance that they would would back the text, which demanded that all countries comply with pre-existing UNSC resolutions on Jerusalem, dating back to 1967, including requirements that the city’s final status be decided in direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
The resolution was denounced in furious language by the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, who described it as “an insult” that would not be forgotten. “The United States will not be told by any country where we can put our embassy,” she said.
“It’s scandalous to say we are putting back peace efforts,” she added. “The fact that this veto is being done in defence of American sovereignty and in defence of America’s role in the Middle East peace process is not a source of embarrassment for us; it should be an embarrassment to the remainder of the security council.”
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, tweeted: “Thank you, Ambassador Haley. On Hanukkah, you spoke like a Maccabi. You lit a candle of truth. You dispel the darkness. One defeated the many. Truth defeated lies. Thank you, President Trump.” If you're in the Trump administration, every country in the world can tell you you're wrong and you just have to shout FAKE NEWS at the top of your voice to make yourself right. Trump doesn't need to yell "FAKE NEWS." He just has to yell "FUCK OFF," which he very clearly is doing. He's the first president who is bright enough to realize that it is not in America's interest to placate Palestine and the Arab states on this. Kudos to him. do you have any actual plan to address the situation? Yep, let Israel win. Take note of the more extreme views that trump supporters hold, which they probably didn’t hold before Trump, because the only way to square Trump with one’s world view is to adopt more extreme views on western civilization. This isn’t a new view of mine. I have explained it in detail over the years in this thread. The bottom line is that Israel and Palestine will never peacefully coexist, so we should unequivocally support Israel. And create thousands of terrorists in the process for the next centuries to come. That sounds like a good plan. Just make sure they come after you and your families, rather than spreading worldwide again. How is it different from the current status quo? I'd argue that it's not. Trump actually has the conviction and the balls to realize this and act on it as opposed to pursuing the aimless moral ambiguity of the prior administrations.
you've still yet to remotely justify your proposal actually changing the situation on the ground in any way that actually benefits america.
|
On December 19 2017 06:10 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:04 Plansix wrote:On December 19 2017 05:56 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:52 zlefin wrote:On December 19 2017 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:40 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/us-outnumbered-14-to-1-as-it-vetoes-un-vote-on-status-of-jerusalemA UN security council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has been backed by every council member except the US, which used its veto.
The unanimity of the rest of the council was a stark rebuke to the Trump administration over its unilateral move earlier this month, which upended decades of international consensus.
The Egyptian-drafted resolution did not specifically mention the US or Trump but expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem”.
A spokesman for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, responded to the veto by saying it was “unacceptable and threatens the stability of the international community because it disrespects it”.
The UK and France had indicated in advance that they would would back the text, which demanded that all countries comply with pre-existing UNSC resolutions on Jerusalem, dating back to 1967, including requirements that the city’s final status be decided in direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
The resolution was denounced in furious language by the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, who described it as “an insult” that would not be forgotten. “The United States will not be told by any country where we can put our embassy,” she said.
“It’s scandalous to say we are putting back peace efforts,” she added. “The fact that this veto is being done in defence of American sovereignty and in defence of America’s role in the Middle East peace process is not a source of embarrassment for us; it should be an embarrassment to the remainder of the security council.”
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, tweeted: “Thank you, Ambassador Haley. On Hanukkah, you spoke like a Maccabi. You lit a candle of truth. You dispel the darkness. One defeated the many. Truth defeated lies. Thank you, President Trump.” If you're in the Trump administration, every country in the world can tell you you're wrong and you just have to shout FAKE NEWS at the top of your voice to make yourself right. Trump doesn't need to yell "FAKE NEWS." He just has to yell "FUCK OFF," which he very clearly is doing. He's the first president who is bright enough to realize that it is not in America's interest to placate Palestine and the Arab states on this. Kudos to him. do you have any actual plan to address the situation? Yep, let Israel win. I personally don’t care who wins, but the plan of supporting Israel in its current path to victory is a long term problem for the US is the region. They are either going to go full trail of tears with 5 million people or the reverse Warsaw Ghetto system they are currently working on. It’s a fight we get nothing from supporting. Of course we get something. We get our own little pro-Western, modern version of Sparta in the region. Besides, it's not like we'd be giving up anything. The Palestinians are useless. The other major Arab states really don't give a shit despite their public proclamations as evidenced by the deepening strategic ties between Israel and the Saudis. The eunuchs at the UN can bitch all they want, but they clearly are powerless to do anything. Trump made the proclamation at the perfect time.
Your understanding of the Middle East and Israel never ceases to impress me. It rivals Danglars understanding of congress. You hit it on the head right there. Our own little Sparta.
|
On December 19 2017 06:05 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:02 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:59 Doodsmack wrote:On December 19 2017 05:56 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:52 zlefin wrote:On December 19 2017 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:40 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/us-outnumbered-14-to-1-as-it-vetoes-un-vote-on-status-of-jerusalemA UN security council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has been backed by every council member except the US, which used its veto.
The unanimity of the rest of the council was a stark rebuke to the Trump administration over its unilateral move earlier this month, which upended decades of international consensus.
The Egyptian-drafted resolution did not specifically mention the US or Trump but expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem”.
A spokesman for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, responded to the veto by saying it was “unacceptable and threatens the stability of the international community because it disrespects it”.
The UK and France had indicated in advance that they would would back the text, which demanded that all countries comply with pre-existing UNSC resolutions on Jerusalem, dating back to 1967, including requirements that the city’s final status be decided in direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
The resolution was denounced in furious language by the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, who described it as “an insult” that would not be forgotten. “The United States will not be told by any country where we can put our embassy,” she said.
“It’s scandalous to say we are putting back peace efforts,” she added. “The fact that this veto is being done in defence of American sovereignty and in defence of America’s role in the Middle East peace process is not a source of embarrassment for us; it should be an embarrassment to the remainder of the security council.”
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, tweeted: “Thank you, Ambassador Haley. On Hanukkah, you spoke like a Maccabi. You lit a candle of truth. You dispel the darkness. One defeated the many. Truth defeated lies. Thank you, President Trump.” If you're in the Trump administration, every country in the world can tell you you're wrong and you just have to shout FAKE NEWS at the top of your voice to make yourself right. Trump doesn't need to yell "FAKE NEWS." He just has to yell "FUCK OFF," which he very clearly is doing. He's the first president who is bright enough to realize that it is not in America's interest to placate Palestine and the Arab states on this. Kudos to him. do you have any actual plan to address the situation? Yep, let Israel win. Take note of the more extreme views that trump supporters hold, which they probably didn’t hold before Trump, because the only way to square Trump with one’s world view is to adopt more extreme views on western civilization. This isn’t a new view of mine. I have explained it in detail over the years in this thread. The bottom line is that Israel and Palestine will never peacefully coexist, so we should unequivocally support Israel. And create thousands of terrorists in the process for the next centuries to come.
I'm not sure that's a negative for xDaunt.
|
On December 19 2017 06:17 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:05 m4ini wrote:On December 19 2017 06:02 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:59 Doodsmack wrote:On December 19 2017 05:56 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:52 zlefin wrote:On December 19 2017 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:40 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/us-outnumbered-14-to-1-as-it-vetoes-un-vote-on-status-of-jerusalemA UN security council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has been backed by every council member except the US, which used its veto.
The unanimity of the rest of the council was a stark rebuke to the Trump administration over its unilateral move earlier this month, which upended decades of international consensus.
The Egyptian-drafted resolution did not specifically mention the US or Trump but expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem”.
A spokesman for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, responded to the veto by saying it was “unacceptable and threatens the stability of the international community because it disrespects it”.
The UK and France had indicated in advance that they would would back the text, which demanded that all countries comply with pre-existing UNSC resolutions on Jerusalem, dating back to 1967, including requirements that the city’s final status be decided in direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
The resolution was denounced in furious language by the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, who described it as “an insult” that would not be forgotten. “The United States will not be told by any country where we can put our embassy,” she said.
“It’s scandalous to say we are putting back peace efforts,” she added. “The fact that this veto is being done in defence of American sovereignty and in defence of America’s role in the Middle East peace process is not a source of embarrassment for us; it should be an embarrassment to the remainder of the security council.”
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, tweeted: “Thank you, Ambassador Haley. On Hanukkah, you spoke like a Maccabi. You lit a candle of truth. You dispel the darkness. One defeated the many. Truth defeated lies. Thank you, President Trump.” If you're in the Trump administration, every country in the world can tell you you're wrong and you just have to shout FAKE NEWS at the top of your voice to make yourself right. Trump doesn't need to yell "FAKE NEWS." He just has to yell "FUCK OFF," which he very clearly is doing. He's the first president who is bright enough to realize that it is not in America's interest to placate Palestine and the Arab states on this. Kudos to him. do you have any actual plan to address the situation? Yep, let Israel win. Take note of the more extreme views that trump supporters hold, which they probably didn’t hold before Trump, because the only way to square Trump with one’s world view is to adopt more extreme views on western civilization. This isn’t a new view of mine. I have explained it in detail over the years in this thread. The bottom line is that Israel and Palestine will never peacefully coexist, so we should unequivocally support Israel. And create thousands of terrorists in the process for the next centuries to come. I'm not sure that's a negative for xDaunt.
It will lead to war with the Middle East, which is what he wants. Doesn't want his kids to serve, mind you. Just war fought by the poors.
|
United Kingdom10026 Posts
On December 19 2017 06:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:17 Nebuchad wrote:On December 19 2017 06:05 m4ini wrote:On December 19 2017 06:02 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:59 Doodsmack wrote:On December 19 2017 05:56 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:52 zlefin wrote:On December 19 2017 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:40 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/us-outnumbered-14-to-1-as-it-vetoes-un-vote-on-status-of-jerusalemA UN security council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has been backed by every council member except the US, which used its veto.
The unanimity of the rest of the council was a stark rebuke to the Trump administration over its unilateral move earlier this month, which upended decades of international consensus.
The Egyptian-drafted resolution did not specifically mention the US or Trump but expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem”.
A spokesman for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, responded to the veto by saying it was “unacceptable and threatens the stability of the international community because it disrespects it”.
The UK and France had indicated in advance that they would would back the text, which demanded that all countries comply with pre-existing UNSC resolutions on Jerusalem, dating back to 1967, including requirements that the city’s final status be decided in direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
The resolution was denounced in furious language by the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, who described it as “an insult” that would not be forgotten. “The United States will not be told by any country where we can put our embassy,” she said.
“It’s scandalous to say we are putting back peace efforts,” she added. “The fact that this veto is being done in defence of American sovereignty and in defence of America’s role in the Middle East peace process is not a source of embarrassment for us; it should be an embarrassment to the remainder of the security council.”
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, tweeted: “Thank you, Ambassador Haley. On Hanukkah, you spoke like a Maccabi. You lit a candle of truth. You dispel the darkness. One defeated the many. Truth defeated lies. Thank you, President Trump.” If you're in the Trump administration, every country in the world can tell you you're wrong and you just have to shout FAKE NEWS at the top of your voice to make yourself right. Trump doesn't need to yell "FAKE NEWS." He just has to yell "FUCK OFF," which he very clearly is doing. He's the first president who is bright enough to realize that it is not in America's interest to placate Palestine and the Arab states on this. Kudos to him. do you have any actual plan to address the situation? Yep, let Israel win. Take note of the more extreme views that trump supporters hold, which they probably didn’t hold before Trump, because the only way to square Trump with one’s world view is to adopt more extreme views on western civilization. This isn’t a new view of mine. I have explained it in detail over the years in this thread. The bottom line is that Israel and Palestine will never peacefully coexist, so we should unequivocally support Israel. And create thousands of terrorists in the process for the next centuries to come. I'm not sure that's a negative for xDaunt. It will lead to war with the Middle East, which is what he wants. Doesn't want his kids to serve, mind you. Just war fought by the poors.
I have no idea why he would want this.
The US military has absolutely no idea about the ME, despite being camped out there for decades. They don't know how to win because they stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the existence of complex local politics and think they will win because they are American.
|
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one.
|
On December 19 2017 05:40 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/us-outnumbered-14-to-1-as-it-vetoes-un-vote-on-status-of-jerusalemShow nested quote +A UN security council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has been backed by every council member except the US, which used its veto.
The unanimity of the rest of the council was a stark rebuke to the Trump administration over its unilateral move earlier this month, which upended decades of international consensus.
The Egyptian-drafted resolution did not specifically mention the US or Trump but expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem”.
A spokesman for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, responded to the veto by saying it was “unacceptable and threatens the stability of the international community because it disrespects it”.
The UK and France had indicated in advance that they would would back the text, which demanded that all countries comply with pre-existing UNSC resolutions on Jerusalem, dating back to 1967, including requirements that the city’s final status be decided in direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
The resolution was denounced in furious language by the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, who described it as “an insult” that would not be forgotten. “The United States will not be told by any country where we can put our embassy,” she said.
“It’s scandalous to say we are putting back peace efforts,” she added. “The fact that this veto is being done in defence of American sovereignty and in defence of America’s role in the Middle East peace process is not a source of embarrassment for us; it should be an embarrassment to the remainder of the security council.”
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, tweeted: “Thank you, Ambassador Haley. On Hanukkah, you spoke like a Maccabi. You lit a candle of truth. You dispel the darkness. One defeated the many. Truth defeated lies. Thank you, President Trump.” If you're in the Trump administration, every country in the world can tell you you're wrong and you just have to shout FAKE NEWS at the top of your voice to make yourself right.
In this case he’s damn right. You could even say he did a bipartisan action, given how popular it was in both parties to approve of the idea.
The Palestinians had better get used to the Israeli capital of Jerusalem. If they keep shooting rockets and all that jazz, they won’t have a future peace deal.
|
United Kingdom10026 Posts
On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one.
Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists?
Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times.
Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are generally a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months.
|
On December 19 2017 06:23 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 05:40 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/us-outnumbered-14-to-1-as-it-vetoes-un-vote-on-status-of-jerusalemA UN security council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has been backed by every council member except the US, which used its veto.
The unanimity of the rest of the council was a stark rebuke to the Trump administration over its unilateral move earlier this month, which upended decades of international consensus.
The Egyptian-drafted resolution did not specifically mention the US or Trump but expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem”.
A spokesman for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, responded to the veto by saying it was “unacceptable and threatens the stability of the international community because it disrespects it”.
The UK and France had indicated in advance that they would would back the text, which demanded that all countries comply with pre-existing UNSC resolutions on Jerusalem, dating back to 1967, including requirements that the city’s final status be decided in direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
The resolution was denounced in furious language by the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, who described it as “an insult” that would not be forgotten. “The United States will not be told by any country where we can put our embassy,” she said.
“It’s scandalous to say we are putting back peace efforts,” she added. “The fact that this veto is being done in defence of American sovereignty and in defence of America’s role in the Middle East peace process is not a source of embarrassment for us; it should be an embarrassment to the remainder of the security council.”
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, tweeted: “Thank you, Ambassador Haley. On Hanukkah, you spoke like a Maccabi. You lit a candle of truth. You dispel the darkness. One defeated the many. Truth defeated lies. Thank you, President Trump.” If you're in the Trump administration, every country in the world can tell you you're wrong and you just have to shout FAKE NEWS at the top of your voice to make yourself right. The Palestinians had better get used to the Israeli capital of Jerusalem. If they keep shooting rockets and all that jazz, they won’t have a future peace deal.
As opposed to if they don't, of course.
|
On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one.
what do you say about the opinions of all the actual counterterrorism experts on the issue and how best to address it?
it sounds like you have a poor understanding of how such conflicts can actually be won/ended.
the appeasement comparison really doesn' twork in this case btw. the situations aren't that analogous.
|
On December 19 2017 06:11 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:05 m4ini wrote:On December 19 2017 06:02 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:59 Doodsmack wrote:On December 19 2017 05:56 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:52 zlefin wrote:On December 19 2017 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:40 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/us-outnumbered-14-to-1-as-it-vetoes-un-vote-on-status-of-jerusalemA UN security council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has been backed by every council member except the US, which used its veto.
The unanimity of the rest of the council was a stark rebuke to the Trump administration over its unilateral move earlier this month, which upended decades of international consensus.
The Egyptian-drafted resolution did not specifically mention the US or Trump but expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem”.
A spokesman for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, responded to the veto by saying it was “unacceptable and threatens the stability of the international community because it disrespects it”.
The UK and France had indicated in advance that they would would back the text, which demanded that all countries comply with pre-existing UNSC resolutions on Jerusalem, dating back to 1967, including requirements that the city’s final status be decided in direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
The resolution was denounced in furious language by the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, who described it as “an insult” that would not be forgotten. “The United States will not be told by any country where we can put our embassy,” she said.
“It’s scandalous to say we are putting back peace efforts,” she added. “The fact that this veto is being done in defence of American sovereignty and in defence of America’s role in the Middle East peace process is not a source of embarrassment for us; it should be an embarrassment to the remainder of the security council.”
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, tweeted: “Thank you, Ambassador Haley. On Hanukkah, you spoke like a Maccabi. You lit a candle of truth. You dispel the darkness. One defeated the many. Truth defeated lies. Thank you, President Trump.” If you're in the Trump administration, every country in the world can tell you you're wrong and you just have to shout FAKE NEWS at the top of your voice to make yourself right. Trump doesn't need to yell "FAKE NEWS." He just has to yell "FUCK OFF," which he very clearly is doing. He's the first president who is bright enough to realize that it is not in America's interest to placate Palestine and the Arab states on this. Kudos to him. do you have any actual plan to address the situation? Yep, let Israel win. Take note of the more extreme views that trump supporters hold, which they probably didn’t hold before Trump, because the only way to square Trump with one’s world view is to adopt more extreme views on western civilization. This isn’t a new view of mine. I have explained it in detail over the years in this thread. The bottom line is that Israel and Palestine will never peacefully coexist, so we should unequivocally support Israel. And create thousands of terrorists in the process for the next centuries to come. That sounds like a good plan. Just make sure they come after you and your families, rather than spreading worldwide again. How is it different from the current status quo? I'd argue that it's not. Trump actually has the conviction and the balls to realize this and act on it as opposed to pursuing the aimless moral ambiguity of the prior administrations.
Any regard for anything other than expansion of imperial power = moral ambiguity.
Total lack of understanding for situation and total impulsiveness = balls
Any other imperial jargon I can translate? 
|
On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one.
Pretty much this. Anyone who thinks that there will ever be peace between Israel and the Palestinians is living in fantasy land. That ship sailed decades ago. If it was going to happen, it would have happened during the Clinton administration. And placating people who are prone to terrorism is about as stupid of a thing that we can do.
|
United Kingdom10026 Posts
On December 19 2017 06:26 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Pretty much this. Anyone who thinks that there will ever be peace between Israel and the Palestinians is living in fantasy land. That ship sailed decades ago. If it was going to happen, it would have happened during the Clinton administration. And placating people who are prone to terrorism is about as stupid of a thing that we can do.
'prone to terrorism'?
Fucking hell. Fox News much?
Its like saying Israelis are prone to shooting kids in the back as they run away.
Just because it happens you can't paint a whole population with it.
|
On December 19 2017 06:25 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists? Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times. Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months.
AIPAC has been doing its best to dehumanize the Palestinians for decades; with folks like the Daunt and Ren eating out of their dirty hands, one can take their efforts as successful.
|
On December 19 2017 06:17 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:05 m4ini wrote:On December 19 2017 06:02 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:59 Doodsmack wrote:On December 19 2017 05:56 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:52 zlefin wrote:On December 19 2017 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On December 19 2017 05:40 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/us-outnumbered-14-to-1-as-it-vetoes-un-vote-on-status-of-jerusalemA UN security council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has been backed by every council member except the US, which used its veto.
The unanimity of the rest of the council was a stark rebuke to the Trump administration over its unilateral move earlier this month, which upended decades of international consensus.
The Egyptian-drafted resolution did not specifically mention the US or Trump but expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem”.
A spokesman for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, responded to the veto by saying it was “unacceptable and threatens the stability of the international community because it disrespects it”.
The UK and France had indicated in advance that they would would back the text, which demanded that all countries comply with pre-existing UNSC resolutions on Jerusalem, dating back to 1967, including requirements that the city’s final status be decided in direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
The resolution was denounced in furious language by the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, who described it as “an insult” that would not be forgotten. “The United States will not be told by any country where we can put our embassy,” she said.
“It’s scandalous to say we are putting back peace efforts,” she added. “The fact that this veto is being done in defence of American sovereignty and in defence of America’s role in the Middle East peace process is not a source of embarrassment for us; it should be an embarrassment to the remainder of the security council.”
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, tweeted: “Thank you, Ambassador Haley. On Hanukkah, you spoke like a Maccabi. You lit a candle of truth. You dispel the darkness. One defeated the many. Truth defeated lies. Thank you, President Trump.” If you're in the Trump administration, every country in the world can tell you you're wrong and you just have to shout FAKE NEWS at the top of your voice to make yourself right. Trump doesn't need to yell "FAKE NEWS." He just has to yell "FUCK OFF," which he very clearly is doing. He's the first president who is bright enough to realize that it is not in America's interest to placate Palestine and the Arab states on this. Kudos to him. do you have any actual plan to address the situation? Yep, let Israel win. Take note of the more extreme views that trump supporters hold, which they probably didn’t hold before Trump, because the only way to square Trump with one’s world view is to adopt more extreme views on western civilization. This isn’t a new view of mine. I have explained it in detail over the years in this thread. The bottom line is that Israel and Palestine will never peacefully coexist, so we should unequivocally support Israel. And create thousands of terrorists in the process for the next centuries to come. I'm not sure that's a negative for xDaunt.
It's DEFINITELY not.
An actual terrorism threat justifies continued military expansion and intervention, and more "safety focused" authoritarian governance at home. It's nebulousness and lack of real nation-threatening potential arguably makes a strong terrorism threat even BETTER than an actual war for such an administration.
2 minutes of people who once lived in a place that used to be Palestine blowing up US civilian cars on Fox every day is the literal best outcome from a certain perspective. So much easier to manufacture hate and fear when you don't have to spend a dime or day on the dirty work yourself.
|
On December 19 2017 06:28 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists? Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times. Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months. AIPAC has been doing its best to dehumanize the Palestinians for decades; with folks like the Daunt and Ren eating out of their dirty hands, one can take their efforts as successful.
It's not about dehumanizing Palestinians. That's quite besides the point. The real question is in what universe will the Palestinians EVER be pro-American? The obvious answer is that they will never be, so we should unequivocally support Israel.
|
On December 19 2017 06:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2017 06:28 farvacola wrote:On December 19 2017 06:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 19 2017 06:23 RenSC2 wrote:
The world powers appeased the Nazis in the 1930s because they didn’t want war. They ended up in a war with the Nazis anyways after the Nazis gained more strength and were harder to defeat. We should not make the same mistakes with terrorists and worry about how they will react. We should simply prepare for the response.
We’ll be attacked if we capitulate and we’ll be attacked if we don’t. The terrorists won’t be happy until we are all cleansed from the face of the earth. So we might as well draw some clear lines in the sand and defend those lines even if it means war. Don’t let them gain enough power to threaten our existence and force us into a war with an uncertain outcome.
As a Trump hater, I still agree with the decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s a start.
The lack of infrastructure spending is 99% on Trump and the Republicans though. I’m not going to be upset with the Democrats for their 1% responsibility on this one. Are you suggesting that Palestinians are terrorists? Everywhere I try to discuss this i see Palestinians portrayed as a braying mob of anti American terrorists who want nothing more than to wage war against the West at all times. Actually, as you'd know if you had met any, Palestinians are a fairly liberal bunch of people who just want to be able to let their kids go outside without them getting arrested and tortured for a few months. AIPAC has been doing its best to dehumanize the Palestinians for decades; with folks like the Daunt and Ren eating out of their dirty hands, one can take their efforts as successful. It's not about dehumanizing Palestinians. That's quite besides the point. The real question is in what universe will the Palestinians EVER be pro-American? The obvious answer is that they will never be, so we should unequivocally support Israel.
I would bet you all the money in the world if we supported Palestine how we support Isreal, Palestine would be pro american out the ass
|
Let the world continue with their fixation upon sticking it to Israel while pretending it is borne of noble intentions. I'm glad the US finally did the right thing with this Jerusalem matter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
152
126
EPT
