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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23254 Posts
‘Don’t force us to give up our school’: A Mississippi town is being told to integrate That's a headline from 1986 + Show Spoiler + On October 14 2017 22:44 Ghostcom wrote: Try again - preferably with something resembling substance as an argument the next time around. I'm sorry but the demand for "substance" is proof of my argument. But I figured that was coming and posted something for context. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
EDIT: You failing to fully formulate an argument is not the same as me not having any understanding of context. This is a prime example of why I don't want to argue with you. Good day. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23254 Posts
On October 14 2017 22:48 Ghostcom wrote: You are missing several links in your reasoning for me to have any chance of following you. But again, I'm not interested in arguing with specifically you as we've tried that plenty times before and it never turns out fruitful. Have a nice day. Mississippians have been arguing with the Federal government for decades and are STILL being FORCED to integrate. How hard is it to see why a conversation like you describe is a pipe dream in most of Mississippi? Snowflake out if you have to but there's no shame in not being aware of how absurdly racist much of Mississippi still is. Like I said, still having to be forced by the federal government to integrate. We're not talking like "oh it's arguable if it's segregated" No they have an all white school a mile away from a "others" school. It's fine not to know, but don't get all fragile because I point it out (and even apologized, wouldn't have done that if I was trying to insult you). EDIT: You failing to fully formulate an argument is not the same as me not having any understanding of context. This is a prime example of why I don't want to argue with you. Good day. I don't even know where to start if you can't get it already? My fully formulated argument is that no one who knows anything about how racist Mississippians tend to be would think a bunch of kids there are at a place to have that kind of conversation. I'm not giving you a state report, just own it was a stupid thing to say and move on. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
On October 14 2017 22:30 GoTuNk! wrote: So you are ok with classic books being censored because of "bad words" and incompetent teachers? Sorry there is nothing to simpathize with that. At what age are school kids allowed to read books for class with "sexually explicit (LGBT content or not)"? I don't think anyone under 14 should, guess I'm a prude. Firstly, I said I think it's unfortunate. But having taught, I can understand why it happens. As far as I'm concerned, mandating what books should or should not be read is a bad idea in the first place, it takes away teacher autonomy. You want a baseline of subjects that your students should achieve competence for each class, and then how this is accomplished should imo depend on what the teacher finds more appropriate. If the teacher wants to use how to kill a mockingbird to talk about race relations in the south, and the various other ethical dilemmas posed by the book, that's fine. If they rather want to separate these dilemmas and use various different methods for each of them, that's also fine. Depends on what examples the teacher is more knowledgeable on, as well as student body composition. Some students you can ask directly about how they are influenced by their ethnicity, others will find that very discomforting. Part of being a good teacher is being aware of these individual differences. And I think sexually explicit content is less harmful than content which explicitly depicts violence. I'm not talking about fifty shades of grey here, even if that were a literary masterpiece, I'd agree that it's not really suitable for children. But stuff like 'two boys kissing' (5th most challenged in 2016) doesn't really contain anything that is offensive outside a 'homosexuals are gross' type of mindset - and this is a mindset I absolutely think teachers have a responsibility to fight. Not surprised with you being a prude, though.  | ||
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farvacola
United States18829 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23254 Posts
On October 14 2017 22:57 Mohdoo wrote: GH, it is likely that Ghostcom doesn't realize Mississippi actually is really, really distinct. Even me being someone pretty involved and interested in this stuff as an American, I only recently learned about ways Mississippi still actively pushes for segregation in really dystopian ways. I was blown away there was nothing the federal government did about it. It is very likely that Ghostcom is under the impression Mississippi is just really conservative. But it goes further than I think most people would even think is legal and he would likely be very surprised if you were to show some of this stuff. I forget which high school still has segregated school dances. I mean I opened with "I'm sorry, but that's something only someone who didn't know about Mississippi would say" which is still 100% accurate. I'm sure I'd matter of factly say something equally uninformed if I tried to opine about something comparable in Denmark. People need to not get so offended when people point out they don't know what they are talking about when it should be obvious why. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
On October 14 2017 23:00 GreenHorizons wrote: I mean I opened with "I'm sorry, but that's something only someone who didn't know about Mississippi would say" which is still 100% accurate. I'm sure I'd matter of factly say something equally uninformed if I tried to opine about something comparable in Denmark. People need to not get so offended when people point out they don't know what they are talking about when it should be obvious why. I lived in Mississippi for 1 year. Fuck off. You don't know shit about me and your usual BS is incredibly tiring. You can call this "fragility" or you can face the fact that you are never arguing honest, you are strawmanning and insulting. EDIT: Sure the place faces MASSIVE issues. And a book like "To Kill a Mockinbird" being removed from school curriculum is a comparable minor problem there. However, that doesn't change my statement and the issue doesn't remove the onus from the individual teachers. The irony here is palpable as an integral part of the message of the book in question is to do what is right even when everyone around you doesn't and it puts you at risk. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
On October 14 2017 22:57 Mohdoo wrote: GH, it is likely that Ghostcom doesn't realize Mississippi actually is really, really distinct. Even me being someone pretty involved and interested in this stuff as an American, I only recently learned about ways Mississippi still actively pushes for segregation in really dystopian ways. I was blown away there was nothing the federal government did about it. It is very likely that Ghostcom is under the impression Mississippi is just really conservative. But it goes further than I think most people would even think is legal and he would likely be very surprised if you were to show some of this stuff. I forget which high school still has segregated school dances. whaaat like officially segregated school dance? like not just 'people frown', but like 'if a white girl brings a black date they're not allowed entry'? That is definitely beyond my understanding of how the situation is. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
This "everyone who disagrees with me is racist" shtick is also getting tiresome. Cut it out. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On October 14 2017 23:02 Ghostcom wrote: I lived in Mississippi for 1 year. Fuck off. You don't know shit about me and your usual BS is incredibly tiring. You can call this "fragility" or you can face the fact that you are never arguing honest, you are strawmanning and insulting. Apparently not in the right area and it's not like living somewhere a year suddenly means you have a firm grasp on every part of the state and it's history. I'm on my phone now, which is why I lazily begged GH to go through the trouble of linking to various stories and instances, but I really do think you'd be surprised. On October 14 2017 23:03 Liquid`Drone wrote: whaaat like officially segregated school dance? like not just 'people frown', but like 'if a white girl brings a black date they're not allowed entry'? That is definitely beyond my understanding of how the situation is. There's more out there, but here's my quick Google regarding Georgia http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/04/living/integrated-prom-wilcox-county-georgia/index.html Sorry for the not recent source. On my phone | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23254 Posts
On October 14 2017 23:02 Ghostcom wrote: I lived in Mississippi for 1 year. Fuck off. You don't know shit about me and your usual BS is incredibly tiring. You can call this "fragility" or you can face the fact that you are never arguing honest, you are strawmanning and insulting. Well then I guess you have less of an excuse to say something so obviously ridiculous. Students tried to hold an integrated prom and got fucking death threats and you think they are going to have a conversation about the historical (like earlier that day) usage of "nigger"? It's offensively uninformed when paired with the "I really cant sympathize". This feels more generally snowflakey than white fragility but I suppose it fits. | ||
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Howie_Dewitt
United States1416 Posts
I feel like the latter is more likely, considering the other garbage those people spew. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
On October 14 2017 23:06 GreenHorizons wrote: Well then I guess you have less of an excuse to say something so obviously ridiculous. Students tried to hold an integrated prom and got fucking death threats and you think they are going to have a conversation about the historical (like earlier that day) usage of "nigger"? It's offensively uninformed when paired with the "I really cant sympathize". This feels more generally snowflakey than white fragility but I suppose it fits. Nice talking to you as always. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
On October 14 2017 23:06 Howie_Dewitt wrote: You know, I've always been concerned with Richard Spencer's plan of ethnostates. As someone who is biracial, would we live on the border of two different ones? Did those idiots ever discuss that, or did they not even bother to give their argument substance because they were too focused on how much they dislike having to live with minorities? I feel like the latter is more likely, considering the other garbage those people spew. clearly the mongrelmen are too tainted for the aryan superstate.. But yeah, maybe they're gonna go 23andme everybody and if you have less than 5-10% non-european you are fine? I don't think they have a clear understanding of how to accomplish their goals either, tbh. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35154 Posts
On October 14 2017 23:06 Howie_Dewitt wrote: You know, I've always been concerned with Richard Spencer's plan of ethnostates. As someone who is biracial, would we live on the border of two different ones? Did those idiots ever discuss that, or did they not even bother to give their argument substance because they were too focused on how much they dislike having to live with minorities? I feel like the latter is more likely, considering the other garbage those people spew. That depends, what races? "One drop rule" and all that other bullshit. | ||
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farvacola
United States18829 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23254 Posts
This post originally noted the segregated proms and called it a shit show (before your edit) Your original statement was "I can't sympathize" with a teacher who doesn't want to try to take some obnoxious teenagers (who've been raised racist as shit in a state that will fight the feds to protect their racism) into a nuanced conversation on the word "nigger" You can't be smart about everything all the time, sometimes you're going to say something foolish and it's fine to just laugh at yourself. I shouldn't have spoiled it because it seems people missed it but this is 2016 folks ‘Don’t force us to give up our school’: A Mississippi town is being told to integrate these black families, boasting generations of East Side graduates, might soon be sending their sons and daughters to the town’s other high school, the historically white (read "all-white")* one, a mile away. Source | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
"You don't know a thing about Mississippi." "I lived there before." "Well then you haven't seen the real Mississippi" and/or "Yeah but you aren't an expert in Mississipiology!" Fucking hell. | ||
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Howie_Dewitt
United States1416 Posts
On October 14 2017 23:13 Gahlo wrote: That depends, what races? "One drop rule" and all that other bullshit. English and Japanese, so I'm like one of the most tolerable minorities to the right | ||
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