• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:48
CEST 17:48
KST 00:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism9Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?125Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!46
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism SC4ALL: II Winner will earn a spot at HSC 30! SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 7/8 Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
KSL Week #92 IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly 2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
Broodwar Prediction Market [D] Brainstorming a balance patch for Brood war Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? Terran or Protoss [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group B Escore Tournament - Season 3 [ASL22] Ro16 Group A Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do? Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Diablo IV [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9850 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8997

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8995 8996 8997 8998 8999 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 14 2017 16:54 GMT
#179921
On October 14 2017 20:54 Plansix wrote:


Mississippi continues to impress.

A big point of that book is to make you uncomfortable. American history has many unjust convictions and lynchings. You still teach it even if students don’t come away feeling great about themselves. Pathetic.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
October 14 2017 16:57 GMT
#179922
The sequel to mockingbird where finch turns out to be a racist later in life is... oddly american. Not something I'd recommend to high schoolers though.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
October 14 2017 17:02 GMT
#179923
I personally buy into the theory that Harper Lee was cajoled into releasing a book that she wasn't happy with before she passed away, but then again, that whole backstory is similarly American so it all works out.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 14 2017 17:08 GMT
#179924
On October 15 2017 00:56 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2017 00:41 Sermokala wrote:
Or maybe the president is a fake republican because hes just a reactionary idiot. Hes literaly the useful idioits the real republicans have been trying to use to get power and then ignore beacuse they're at the end of the day a bunch of idiots.

Planned Parenthood, Obamacare, immigration...Iran deal. These are all things Republicans have been foaming at the mouth over. He's definitely going by the Republicans mantra.

The first three have been nothing but rhetoric, and talking about the issue but doing nothing is quintessentially Republican.

But major props for identifying areas where Republicans can think him a billion times more acceptable than Hillary. We might’ve had a DACA expansion and unilaterally-increased Insurance bribes by now.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9064 Posts
October 14 2017 17:23 GMT
#179925
Why would DACA being expanded be bad again?
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 14 2017 17:42 GMT
#179926
On October 15 2017 02:02 farvacola wrote:
I personally buy into the theory that Harper Lee was cajoled into releasing a book that she wasn't happy with before she passed away, but then again, that whole backstory is similarly American so it all works out.

To some extent, if you wait until the author is happy with their work to release it to the public, you will end up with George Lucas Special Edition.

Though I haven't read the sequel so I can't say much about it.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 14 2017 17:59 GMT
#179927
Insurance bribes?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
October 14 2017 18:03 GMT
#179928
On October 14 2017 23:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
We jest, but we had Nazi's kill an innocent woman at a protest, another shoot at someone, and a President that called them "very fine people" and then called people protesting systemic racism "son's of bitches" and told their bosses to fire them if they didn't worship the flag (the US one not the enemy [Nazi/Confederate] flags flown by the "fine people")

Then we have folks like Danglars and xDaunt who advocate various aspects of white supremacy with the cover of intellectual engagement

And towns/cities (run by both parties) scattered all around the country where segregation never ended, slavery is alive and well, and police have been found to habitually violate PoC's constitutional rights.

People wonder how you get from a "normal society" to fighting off an ethnostate, take a look around, it looks a lot like this.

EDIT: Can't forget the folks that range from laughing at the idea to those that just don't see how it would ever be their problem so can't be bothered.


Yes, everyone who doesn't agree with me or is a conservative is a white supremacist. Your argumentation is pretty sound.

Funny how some people on this forum can get away with insulting people without any moderation.


Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11607 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-14 18:20:29
October 14 2017 18:19 GMT
#179929
On October 14 2017 23:52 ChristianS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2017 23:27 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
And what would interracial couples do

Man, they really didn't think their racist idea through lmao

Either:

A: Force them apart
B: Extrajudicial violence against one or both of them
C: White race traitors lose the privilege of living with the other whites

It's not that neo-Nazis didn't think of this stuff, they just don't mind really crude or violent solutions to it. Remember they hate miscegenation and they don't mind violence, so if you're mixed and they really can't figure out where to put you there's a good chance they just kill you.

In general, any time someone advocates for mass forced migration, a huge portion of the people being moved are generally just gonna die/be killed rather than make the move. And whoever is advocating for it probably knows that, they just don't care. In a good number of cases, "forced migration" is just code for genocide.

I would guess option C for the official position. They often talk about race traitors, so it stands to reason that race traitors join the 'side' they switched to. Perhaps option B would also happen unofficially. I don't think they haven't thought of this, but their worldview tends to absolutize racial divisions. Having said that they can be morally flexible. There aren't many of them, so they can start bending their definitions if they like you: 'you're white enough' or 'it's the white side that counts'. Or to half-Chinese kids. You (Japan!) helped us during WWII, so you're alright."
Moderator5000 of our finest Taliban warriors have been released! Rise up my brothers. Mashalla! al-Donald ibn-Frederick al-Masih allows it.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 14 2017 18:20 GMT
#179930
On October 15 2017 03:03 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2017 23:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
We jest, but we had Nazi's kill an innocent woman at a protest, another shoot at someone, and a President that called them "very fine people" and then called people protesting systemic racism "son's of bitches" and told their bosses to fire them if they didn't worship the flag (the US one not the enemy [Nazi/Confederate] flags flown by the "fine people")

Then we have folks like Danglars and xDaunt who advocate various aspects of white supremacy with the cover of intellectual engagement

And towns/cities (run by both parties) scattered all around the country where segregation never ended, slavery is alive and well, and police have been found to habitually violate PoC's constitutional rights.

People wonder how you get from a "normal society" to fighting off an ethnostate, take a look around, it looks a lot like this.

EDIT: Can't forget the folks that range from laughing at the idea to those that just don't see how it would ever be their problem so can't be bothered.


Yes, everyone who doesn't agree with me or is a conservative is a white supremacist. Your argumentation is pretty sound.

Funny how some people on this forum can get away with insulting people without any moderation.



He didn't say that. There are a number of conservatives on this site that didn't make it into that post. But nice back seat moderating.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8183 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-14 18:31:26
October 14 2017 18:29 GMT
#179931
On October 15 2017 03:03 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2017 23:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
We jest, but we had Nazi's kill an innocent woman at a protest, another shoot at someone, and a President that called them "very fine people" and then called people protesting systemic racism "son's of bitches" and told their bosses to fire them if they didn't worship the flag (the US one not the enemy [Nazi/Confederate] flags flown by the "fine people")

Then we have folks like Danglars and xDaunt who advocate various aspects of white supremacy with the cover of intellectual engagement

And towns/cities (run by both parties) scattered all around the country where segregation never ended, slavery is alive and well, and police have been found to habitually violate PoC's constitutional rights.

People wonder how you get from a "normal society" to fighting off an ethnostate, take a look around, it looks a lot like this.

EDIT: Can't forget the folks that range from laughing at the idea to those that just don't see how it would ever be their problem so can't be bothered.


Yes, everyone who doesn't agree with me or is a conservative is a white supremacist. Your argumentation is pretty sound.

Funny how some people on this forum can get away with insulting people without any moderation.

His argument is indeed pretty sound. White supremacist is not an insult it's a position and idea. Same with racism. What is it with the far right supporters saying and advocating racist stuff all day long and then whining when called racists? Consistency guys, consistency.

Now I've read posters in this very thread both protesting the horrible, horrible insult of being called racist while saying explicitly that black folks are inherently more prone to violence.

Here is an idea. If you don't like being called a white supremacist, what about not waving (or defending) the confederate flag, having no objections to neo nazis being called very fine people and going amock when anyone protests in any way the discriminations POC suffer in America (and "insult to the veterans" my ass, seriously)? Because you add all of those up, and you sure look, walk and quack very quite fucking much like a white supremacist in most people's book.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
October 14 2017 19:31 GMT
#179932
People want to have it both ways. They want to blow it out of proportion by calling NFL players a disrespect to the nation, but then turn around and ignore when the Big Orange Idiot pats himself on the back while talking over the anthem. Conveniently ignoring the way Teh Doneld tries to compel people to worship God and our flag, and the way it's superceded the freedom the flag is supposed to represent. They've let ignorant deference to the flag become more important than the all-important concept of liberty and justice for all.

You're not gonna have all the answers, and when it comes to things like social injustice and police brutality, sometimes you need to shut up and listen. People's typical response has been to double down and become twice as loud in their ignorance, and now we have a president that lives by this, but it only sets us back.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-14 20:16:16
October 14 2017 19:40 GMT
#179933
On October 15 2017 03:03 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2017 23:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
We jest, but we had Nazi's kill an innocent woman at a protest, another shoot at someone, and a President that called them "very fine people" and then called people protesting systemic racism "son's of bitches" and told their bosses to fire them if they didn't worship the flag (the US one not the enemy [Nazi/Confederate] flags flown by the "fine people")

Then we have folks like Danglars and xDaunt who advocate various aspects of white supremacy with the cover of intellectual engagement

And towns/cities (run by both parties) scattered all around the country where segregation never ended, slavery is alive and well, and police have been found to habitually violate PoC's constitutional rights.

People wonder how you get from a "normal society" to fighting off an ethnostate, take a look around, it looks a lot like this.

EDIT: Can't forget the folks that range from laughing at the idea to those that just don't see how it would ever be their problem so can't be bothered.


Yes, everyone who doesn't agree with me or is a conservative is a white supremacist. Your argumentation is pretty sound.

Funny how some people on this forum can get away with insulting people without any moderation.



“Your intellectual engagement is only a cover for advocating various aspects of white supremacy” is the toxic issue of race relations and representative of a major political driving force. We should probably have a new website feedback discussion on it because it openly defames posters with a very poorly qualified slur despite its prominence.

It kind of begs a response ala GH tolerates black victimization in society so long as whites are more openly maligned and defamed as a race in society. (To wit, one person gets away calling the other advocating WS, then a right winger thinks it’s fine to fire back with something more foul)
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44283 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-14 19:53:55
October 14 2017 19:50 GMT
#179934
Danglars, if you ever defended rights that weren't components of racist and sexist oppression then your claims that it's the rights you care about, and not the oppression, would carry more weight. You can't just keep saying "trust me, it's not what it looks like" forever.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-14 19:54:22
October 14 2017 19:52 GMT
#179935
On October 14 2017 13:41 LegalLord wrote:
NYT is nowhere near as absurdly grudge-loving as Washington Post or CNN. They have their bias but they still do have journalistic standards. The latter just spend every waking moment spreading piss fires because they find yellow press journalism and grandstanding to be profitable, or something.

I think you confused CNN with journalism. CNN doesn't do journalism anymore they sell drama it's why if you pay attention they latch onto anything controversial anything interpersonal anything drama related. They don't care about reporting they care about ratings and they've chosen to do it though essentially the reality TV and daytime talk show format except using actual events as the basis. It's easy to see when they talk about "issues" they don't talk about issues they talk about drama around those issues you'll be hard pressed for them to talk the actual nitty gritty of things like tax reform of healthcare reform like things that are actually in bills, they'll talk a ton about the people around those bills and the people it affects. At Least since Jeff Zucker been president of CNN who btw is the guy who got Trump to do the apprentice.
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-14 19:55:55
October 14 2017 19:55 GMT
#179936
On October 15 2017 01:54 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2017 20:54 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/aldotcom/status/918891089653895168

Mississippi continues to impress.

A big point of that book is to make you uncomfortable. American history has many unjust convictions and lynchings. You still teach it even if students don’t come away feeling great about themselves. Pathetic.

Hey mississippi gonna mississippi they've pretty much always been the worst at race shit. They don't have the confederate battle flag inside their state flag for no reason.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 14 2017 20:17 GMT
#179937
On October 15 2017 04:52 semantics wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2017 13:41 LegalLord wrote:
NYT is nowhere near as absurdly grudge-loving as Washington Post or CNN. They have their bias but they still do have journalistic standards. The latter just spend every waking moment spreading piss fires because they find yellow press journalism and grandstanding to be profitable, or something.

I think you confused CNN with journalism. CNN doesn't do journalism anymore they sell drama it's why if you pay attention they latch onto anything controversial anything interpersonal anything drama related. They don't care about reporting they care about ratings and they've chosen to do it though essentially the reality TV and daytime talk show format except using actual events as the basis. It's easy to see when they talk about "issues" they don't talk about issues they talk about drama around those issues you'll be hard pressed for them to talk the actual nitty gritty of things like tax reform of healthcare reform like things that are actually in bills, they'll talk a ton about the people around those bills and the people it affects. At Least since Jeff Zucker been president of CNN who btw is the guy who got Trump to do the apprentice.

A shame too; 15 years ago I liked CNN and thought it was a good news source.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-14 21:39:29
October 14 2017 21:24 GMT
#179938
https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/76e79c/i_am_elon_musk_ask_me_anything_about_bfr/

Elon Musk is doing an AMA

edit : It's all about his mars stuff though

Also weinstein has been stripped of his guild membership, and the statement is pathetic
Following the meeting, the Academy issued a statement saying the board had voted “to immediately expel him from the Academy. We do so not simply to separate ourselves from someone who does not merit the respect of his colleagues but also to send a message that the era of willful ignorance and shameful complicity in sexually predatory behavior and workplace harrasment in our industry is over.”

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
October 14 2017 21:45 GMT
#179939
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9064 Posts
October 14 2017 21:52 GMT
#179940
On October 15 2017 06:45 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/919312253295452160

He basically said he didn't read it, doesn't know what the Iran deal really does, and is leaving it up to others to see if it satisfies him.
Prev 1 8995 8996 8997 8998 8999 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 27m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Trap 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 38780
Calm 8638
firebathero 165
hero 134
Dewaltoss 108
Sea.KH 81
Mong 65
Pusan 49
soO 26
Rock 17
[ Show more ]
Free 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Shine 11
Dota 2
qojqva4108
syndereN789
KheZu174
Counter-Strike
ScreaM940
pashabiceps223
edward0
Other Games
singsing1887
hiko812
Beastyqt422
crisheroes327
DeMusliM291
Hui .192
XaKoH 161
ArmadaUGS98
Trikslyr55
TKL 52
QueenE41
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 94
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix11
• Michael_bg 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 147
League of Legends
• Jankos1605
• TFBlade630
Other Games
• Shiphtur50
Upcoming Events
RotterdaM Event
27m
The PiG Daily
7h 12m
CranKy Ducklings
18h 12m
WardiTV Invitational
19h 12m
Cure vs Zoun
SHIN vs Classic
ByuN vs MaxPax
Percival vs YoungYakov
OSC
1d 4h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 18h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 19h
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
1d 23h
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
2 days
Serral vs Rogue
BlizzCon
2 days
IdrA vs MC
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs JyJ
Soulkey vs hero
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Shinee
Shine vs EffOrt
GSL
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-10
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.