US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8976
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On October 12 2017 09:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: + Show Spoiler + The death toll has climbed to 21 as wildfires continue to blaze almost completely out of control in California’s wine country, and firefighters expect weather conditions to take a turn for the worse. “Now the winds are going back up and the humidity is going back down,” said Heather Williams, a spokeswoman for Cal Fire, the state agency responsible for fire protection. “We’re still not out of the woods, it’s a very serious situation.” In the tiny wine country town of Glen Ellen, where the ground was still smoking, Loren Davis of the Mountain volunteer fire department had a blunter assessment: “It’s a shitstorm.” In the town of Santa Rosa, 50 miles north of San Francisco, entire neighborhoods have already been razed to the ground, leaving little more than charred heaps of belongings, skeletal trees and melted cars. More than 20,000 people have headed to evacuation centers across the region, with more leaving their homes as new areas are threatened. Thirteen of the fatalities occurred in Napa and Sonoma counties, about an hour north of San Francisco, and the others in the state’s northern and eastern reaches – six in Mendocino county and two in Yuba county. The Sonoma County sheriff, Robert Giordano, said the number of missing-persons reports had surpassed 600, up from about 200 a day earlier. But officials believe many of those people will be found, saying that the chaotic evacuations and poor communications over the past few days have made locating friends and family difficult. He also expects the death toll to climb. “The devastation is enormous,” he said. “We can’t even get into most areas.” While it is not unusual for dozens of small fires to start each day in California, gusty conditions on Sunday night meant that 17 major fires quickly developed. Five additional major fires have ignited since then. Control remains minimal: the main fire burning in wine country is only at 3% containment, and the second-largest in the area is at 0%. At least 3,500 homes and businesses have been destroyed since the wildfires started Sunday, making them the most destructive blazes in state history. California’s governor, Jerry Brown, said on Wednesday that the federal government had pledged assistance, but pointed out that resources also are going to hurricane recovery efforts in Texas and Florida. He was not circumspect about the context of the conflagrations. He said a warming climate had contributed to catastrophic wildfires and warned that they would continue to happen. Brown also noted that more people were living in communities close to forests and brush that easily ignite because of dry weather. Officials in Napa County say almost half the population of Calistoga, famous for its hot springs and wineries, was ordered to evacuate before sunrise. Officials went through the town of 5,000 people block by block, knocking on doors to warn people to leave, Napa County supervisor Diane Dillon said. Evacuations have also taken place in parts of the state that were previously unaffected – some residents in Solano County, abutting the San Francisco Bay estuary, have also been told to pack up. In southern California, cooler weather and moist ocean air helped firefighters gain ground against a wildfire that has scorched more than a dozen square miles. Orange County fire authority captain Steve Concialdi said the blaze was nearly halfway surrounded and full containment was expected by Saturday, but another round of gusty winds and low humidity levels could arrive late on Thursday. About 8,000 firefighters are working across the state, along with 73 helicopters and 30 airtankers, according to a Cal Fire spokesperson. New resources are set to pour in following a request from California, including 175 engines from neighboring states and dozens more from federal agencies. “We know it’s going to be very fluid in the next couple days, and so we want these resources to get here as soon as possible,” said Williams of Cal Fire. Of the present fires, the Tubbs fire, in Sonoma County, has claimed the largest number of lives – 11. But it is far from the deadliest in state history. The 1933 Griffith Park fire in Los Angeles killed 29, while 1991’s Tunnel fire in Oakland caused 25 deaths. Williams said she understood why some might be scared but encouraged pragmatism and vigilance instead. “I think frightened is a normal emotion,” she said. “I think the best thing we can tell people is we need them to be prepare to be evacuated.” Source Things are looking a lot better in Santa Rosa now. Fire was threatening to overtake the city from the East as the fire came over Annadel State Park. The fire was within 1/3 of a mile or so of where I grew up when the the firefighters set off a massive back burn (they literally lit up a stretch of land over a mile long -- there are some cool videos out there showing it) to stop the fire's progress. Unless the old burn areas flare up, Santa Rosa is probably safe for the time being. Other, smaller, cities are still in trouble, however. And tens of thousands of people have been displaced -- many of whom are homeless now. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 12 2017 11:43 LegalLord wrote: And this guy should have stayed silent as well. We are allow senators to criticize the president here in the US. | ||
ChristianS
United States3188 Posts
On October 12 2017 11:43 LegalLord wrote: And this guy should have stayed silent as well. Headline: American President calls for government to silence critical media Subheadline: obscure American politician disagrees LL: lol wtf is obscure politician talking about, he should shut up Do you get why people think you're a troll and/or Russia shill? In the present situation, Ben Sasse is the one you decided merited criticism. Worth asking, is this one of those issues where you agree with Trump? You've defended Putin a few times iirc, and silencing critical media is certainly a normal Putin policy, so I guess I should ask before assuming you favor freedom of the press. | ||
Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On October 12 2017 12:27 ChristianS wrote: Headline: American President calls for government to silence critical media Subheadline: obscure American politician disagrees LL: lol wtf is obscure politician talking about, he should shut up Do you get why people think you're a troll and/or Russia shill? In the present situation, Ben Sasse is the one you decided merited criticism. Worth asking, is this one of those issues where you agree with Trump? You've defended Putin a few times iirc, and silencing critical media is certainly a normal Putin policy, so I guess I should ask before assuming you favor freedom of the press. Hell of a lot of leaps of logic in whatever this was. And yeah, Sasse should definitely shut up given he has nothing useful to say. This whole Trump is DESTROYING DEMOCRACY shtick has run its course. | ||
ChristianS
United States3188 Posts
On October 12 2017 12:43 LegalLord wrote: Hell of a lot of leaps of logic in whatever this was. And yeah, Sasse should definitely shut up given he has nothing useful to say. This whole Trump is DESTROYING DEMOCRACY shtick has run its course. "That's against the first amendment" seems like a pretty apt response to "I want the government to silence opposition to me." I'll try again: Trump wants the government to take away the license of news networks to broadcast because they're "unfair" to him. Do you agree with him? | ||
LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On October 12 2017 12:51 ChristianS wrote: "That's against the first amendment" seems like a pretty apt response to "I want the government to silence opposition to me." I'll try again: Trump wants the government to take away the license of news networks to broadcast because they're "unfair" to him. Do you agree with him? No. But if you didn't start your question the whole "I bet it's because you're a Russian shill" crap (peddling Plansix's insistence on doing the same) then maybe there would be something to talk about here. | ||
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Nixer
2774 Posts
On October 12 2017 12:07 Plansix wrote: We are allow senators to criticize the president here in the US. Misha wishes that other countries be ran alike, I suppose. | ||
ChristianS
United States3188 Posts
On October 12 2017 12:54 LegalLord wrote: No. But if you didn't start your question the whole "I bet it's because you're a Russian shill" crap (peddling Plansix's insistence on doing the same) then maybe there would be something to talk about here. Quick clarification, if you care: I don't think you're a Russian shill. Apparently you have some background in Russia or something, which might inform your worldview and beliefs, but I never thought you were some paid internet troll or something. You don't do much to dispel the myth, but you're not obligated to try to prove your critics wrong if you don't care to. But what exactly is the criticism of Sasse here? I don't think it's going to win him political points, certainly. He'll probably lose votes if anything. But he's also unambiguously right that Trump's threatening a blatant violation of the first amendment. The merit of the DESTROYING DEMOCRACY narrative is irrelevant here because Sasse didn't invoke it. He said Trump is threatening to violate the first amendment, and he said that contradicts the oath of office. The first is clearly true, and the second is at least arguably true, so what's wrong with what he said? | ||
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 12 2017 09:33 Saryph wrote: At least twice in one day talking about gutting first amendment. Thankfully the first amendment doesn't care if its the right or left attacking it. | ||
LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On October 12 2017 13:07 ChristianS wrote: Quick clarification, if you care: I don't think you're a Russian shill. Apparently you have some background in Russia or something, which might inform your worldview and beliefs, but I never thought you were some paid internet troll or something. You don't do much to dispel the myth, but you're not obligated to try to prove your critics wrong if you don't care to. But what exactly is the criticism of Sasse here? I don't think it's going to win him political points, certainly. He'll probably lose votes if anything. But he's also unambiguously right that Trump's threatening a blatant violation of the first amendment. The merit of the DESTROYING DEMOCRACY narrative is irrelevant here because Sasse didn't invoke it. He said Trump is threatening to violate the first amendment, and he said that contradicts the oath of office. The first is clearly true, and the second is at least arguably true, so what's wrong with what he said? Sasse was one of the original #NeverTrump-ers and like the rest of that lot, he only seems to care about the constitution when it is politically convenient to do so. I remember quite well the frivolous stupidity of "Trump deletes tweet - impeach for violating records laws?!?" And this is no different. Trump is quite clearly all bark and no bite. When he "insinuates" on Twitter, the obvious implication should be that he is a blowhard and should be laughed at, not that he intends to kill the press. This entire chain of "DESTROYING DEMOCRACY" horseshit is just political theatrics, not a meaningful criticism. Sure, we could talk about how Trump is a buffoon, but that'd be shooting fish in a barrel. Nevertheless, the point still stands: Sasse is a dimwit who should really just stay silent because only stupid comes out of his mouth. Of course, the easy route in all this is to never see fault with someone who is piling further shit atop the clown-in-chief, and to find any and every excuse to justify it. It was the racists, the Russians, the deplorables, anyone and everyone is at fault except for those that are opposed to Trump. So it makes for an easy, "clever" narrative to peddle. | ||
ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On October 12 2017 13:12 Danglars wrote: Thankfully the first amendment doesn't care if its the right or left attacking it. Yes less news, so less reporting. You know that PR is a shit show right? My friend was stuck over there for four weeks after Maria hit, and the federal government isn't doing much to help move supplies. He has more than enough proof that Trump literally only went to PR to check on his golf course. | ||
Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On October 12 2017 13:23 LegalLord wrote: Sasse was one of the original #NeverTrump-ers and like the rest of that lot, he only seems to care about the constitution when it is politically convenient to do so. I remember quite well the frivolous stupidity of "Trump deletes tweet - impeach for violating records laws?!?" And this is no different. Trump is quite clearly all bark and no bite. When he "insinuates" on Twitter, the obvious implication should be that he is a blowhard and should be laughed at, not that he intends to kill the press. This entire chain of "DESTROYING DEMOCRACY" horseshit is just political theatrics, not a meaningful criticism. Sure, we could talk about how Trump is a buffoon, but that'd be shooting fish in a barrel. Nevertheless, the point still stands: Sasse is a dimwit who should really just stay silent because only stupid comes out of his mouth. Of course, the easy route in all this is to never see fault with someone who is piling further shit atop the clown-in-chief, and to find any and every excuse to justify it. It was the racists, the Russians, the deplorables, anyone and everyone is at fault except for those that are opposed to Trump. So it makes for an easy, "clever" narrative to peddle. You'll never have an argument that the President's public communications are insignificant. | ||
Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
At first it sounded like hyperbole, the escalation of a Twitter war. But now it’s clear that Bob Corker’s remarkable New York Times interview—in which the Republican senator described the White House as “adult day care” and warned Trump could start World War III—was an inflection point in the Trump presidency. It brought into the open what several people close to the president have recently told me in private: that Trump is “unstable,” “losing a step,” and “unraveling.” The conversation among some of the president’s longtime confidantes, along with the character of some of the leaks emerging from the White House has shifted. There’s a new level of concern. NBC News published a report that Trump shocked his national security team when he called for a nearly tenfold increase in the country’s nuclear arsenal during a briefing this summer. One Trump adviser confirmed to me it was after this meeting disbanded that Secretary of State Rex Tillerson called Trump a “moron.” In recent days, I spoke with a half dozen prominent Republicans and Trump advisers, and they all describe a White House in crisis as advisers struggle to contain a president who seems to be increasingly unfocused and consumed by dark moods. Trump’s ire is being fueled by his stalled legislative agenda and, to a surprising degree, by his decision last month to back the losing candidate Luther Strange in the Alabama Republican primary. “Alabama was a huge blow to his psyche,” a person close to Trump said. “He saw the cult of personality was broken.” www.vanityfair.com | ||
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KwarK
United States42791 Posts
It's an issue when that kind of message is coming from the President, whether or not he follows through. | ||
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 12 2017 11:43 LegalLord wrote: And this guy should have stayed silent as well. Let's grandstand on Trump's clearly over the top BS. We need a lot more of the "cut it out, idiot" and less of the "your latest statement is a direct affront to the oath of office, are you recanting it?!" This is the guy that wants loss of citizenship and jailtime for burning the flag and 68 other stupid ideas that should prompt eye-rolls. Given his past tweets (among others), he should know better. + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2017 13:23 LegalLord wrote: Sasse was one of the original #NeverTrump-ers and like the rest of that lot, he only seems to care about the constitution when it is politically convenient to do so. I remember quite well the frivolous stupidity of "Trump deletes tweet - impeach for violating records laws?!?" And this is no different. Trump is quite clearly all bark and no bite. When he "insinuates" on Twitter, the obvious implication should be that he is a blowhard and should be laughed at, not that he intends to kill the press. This entire chain of "DESTROYING DEMOCRACY" horseshit is just political theatrics, not a meaningful criticism. Sure, we could talk about how Trump is a buffoon, but that'd be shooting fish in a barrel. Nevertheless, the point still stands: Sasse is a dimwit who should really just stay silent because only stupid comes out of his mouth. Of course, the easy route in all this is to never see fault with someone who is piling further shit atop the clown-in-chief, and to find any and every excuse to justify it. It was the racists, the Russians, the deplorables, anyone and everyone is at fault except for those that are opposed to Trump. So it makes for an easy, "clever" narrative to peddle. Oh, already extended while I was posting that | ||
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 12 2017 13:27 ShoCkeyy wrote: Yes less news, so less reporting. You know that PR is a shit show right? My friend was stuck over there for four weeks after Maria hit, and the federal government isn't doing much to help move supplies. He has more than enough proof that Trump literally only went to PR to check on his golf course. What are you on about? Seriously looks like a misquote. This is on 1st amendment dummies that should be laughed at before dismissed, not how PR has ... serious first amendment issues in the fetid water? | ||
ChristianS
United States3188 Posts
On October 12 2017 13:23 LegalLord wrote: Sasse was one of the original #NeverTrump-ers and like the rest of that lot, he only seems to care about the constitution when it is politically convenient to do so. I remember quite well the frivolous stupidity of "Trump deletes tweet - impeach for violating records laws?!?" And this is no different. Trump is quite clearly all bark and no bite. When he "insinuates" on Twitter, the obvious implication should be that he is a blowhard and should be laughed at, not that he intends to kill the press. This entire chain of "DESTROYING DEMOCRACY" horseshit is just political theatrics, not a meaningful criticism. Sure, we could talk about how Trump is a buffoon, but that'd be shooting fish in a barrel. Nevertheless, the point still stands: Sasse is a dimwit who should really just stay silent because only stupid comes out of his mouth. Of course, the easy route in all this is to never see fault with someone who is piling further shit atop the clown-in-chief, and to find any and every excuse to justify it. It was the racists, the Russians, the deplorables, anyone and everyone is at fault except for those that are opposed to Trump. So it makes for an easy, "clever" narrative to peddle. I'm sure I'd have plenty of criticisms for Sasse if I looked into his positions, but in this case he's right that Trump is blatantly attacking what the Constitution stands for, and that's worth criticizing. The President of the United States attacking the Constitution is not normal. That the thing he's criticizing is obviously bad is hardly a reason he shouldn't say it. Woefully the general consensus against it isn't there. I'll happily criticize Sasse if he's dumb elsewhere, but in this case, he's acknowledging an important truth most Republicans won't acknowledge. That's not a bad thing. | ||
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