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On October 11 2017 04:50 Danglars wrote:Haha. Oopsies. I don't think that level of display of cowardice from the top has a rewind button. Also, never say the PR types aren't ridiculously entertaining at times. "The current dispute ... is threatening to erode the unifying power of our game." Speaking of Matt Murrays
thats a very poor way of phrasing it: "convicted for doing her job"
sounds like something a hitwoman would say after being convicted for a hit
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On October 11 2017 05:07 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 04:55 Plansix wrote:On October 11 2017 04:48 xDaunt wrote:On October 11 2017 04:33 Plansix wrote:
If they didn’t cave and waited it out, people would just get used to the protest and wouldn’t care. The NBA just lets their players have political opinions and it’s really a huge deal. The tooth paste can’t go back into the tube. And again, they couldn’t ban celebrations in the end zone. I’m not convinced they can ban this either. Or that all the team owners are willing to fight with their players about it. Who was going to get used to it? Fans were tuning out in protest. There is nothing from the past year to indicate that riding this out was a sustainable course of action. Again, what are they going to do? Bench star players? Fine them into the ground, only to lose in court? Again, this is the league that failed to be celebrations. None of this is going to improve their ratings or get more viewers. What makes you think that the owners can't bench the players? The CBA gives the owners a ton of power in that regard.
Oh you can bench the players all you want, you are just going to get a firestorm for it. Do you think other players will sit by if coaches start benching people for a protest?
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On October 11 2017 05:07 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 04:55 Plansix wrote:On October 11 2017 04:48 xDaunt wrote:On October 11 2017 04:33 Plansix wrote:
If they didn’t cave and waited it out, people would just get used to the protest and wouldn’t care. The NBA just lets their players have political opinions and it’s really a huge deal. The tooth paste can’t go back into the tube. And again, they couldn’t ban celebrations in the end zone. I’m not convinced they can ban this either. Or that all the team owners are willing to fight with their players about it. Who was going to get used to it? Fans were tuning out in protest. There is nothing from the past year to indicate that riding this out was a sustainable course of action. Again, what are they going to do? Bench star players? Fine them into the ground, only to lose in court? Again, this is the league that failed to be celebrations. None of this is going to improve their ratings or get more viewers. What makes you think that the owners can't bench the players? The CBA gives the owners a ton of power in that regard.
I never said they couldn’t bench them. I’m super excited for them to try. Like if all the black players on one team kneel. That will be fun.
On October 11 2017 05:03 Godwrath wrote:I really like the language terms "workers" and "owners" instead of "teams" and "players". You gotta respect your recipients of the peace nobel. Atleast, the real ones.
Just putting all those black players on notice that they should be grateful to have a job and that they can be fired at any time. I’m sure it will go fine in this political climate.
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"The controversy over the Anthem is a barrier to having honest conversations and making real progress on the underlying issues. We need to move past this controversy, and we want to do that together with our players."
Roger really lost me there. How is calling attention to police brutality/mass incarceration against minorities preventing progress from being made.. exactly?
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It would be funny to see the Cowboys players do it to see Jerry Jones eat his words or tank his team.
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On October 11 2017 05:13 Aveng3r wrote:
"The controversy over the Anthem is a barrier to having honest conversations and making real progress on the underlying issues. We need to move past this controversy, and we want to do that together with our players."
Roger really lost me there. How is calling attention to police brutality/mass incarceration against minorities preventing progress from being made.. exactly?
Once they stop protesting the people can go back to ignoring the problem.
Thats progress! /s
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I mean, legally, the NFL can't tell the players to stop protesting. It's their right, while they can get fired? Yea, but expect lawsuits. While these two are different situations, I think it comes down to how the supreme court is pretty ambiguous in it's meaning.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/lawsuit-teen-expelled-sitting-pledge-allegiance-50348128
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/319/624
"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us."
"It seems trite but necessary to say that the First Amendment to our Constitution was designed to avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings. There is no mysticism in the American concept of the State or of the nature or origin of its authority. We set up government by consent of the governed, and the Bill of Rights denies those in power any legal opportunity to coerce that consent. Authority here is to be controlled by public opinion, not public opinion by authority."
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So you know how Trump said the NYT secretly taped and set up Corker? He probably should have asked Corker first, considering the man said on tape that he knew he was being recorded and hoped his aide was also recording the conversation.
Fake news guyz amirite????
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On October 11 2017 05:15 Slaughter wrote:
It would be funny to see the Cowboys players do it to see Jerry Jones eat his words or tank his team.
As an Eagles fan, I can't agree more.
Viewership is down because of CTE, not this manufactured outrage over a flag that's being presented improperly.
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On October 11 2017 05:16 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 05:13 Aveng3r wrote:
"The controversy over the Anthem is a barrier to having honest conversations and making real progress on the underlying issues. We need to move past this controversy, and we want to do that together with our players."
Roger really lost me there. How is calling attention to police brutality/mass incarceration against minorities preventing progress from being made.. exactly? Once they stop protesting the people can go back to ignoring the problem. Thats progress! /s
right.... right.
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On October 11 2017 05:13 Aveng3r wrote:
"The controversy over the Anthem is a barrier to having honest conversations and making real progress on the underlying issues. We need to move past this controversy, and we want to do that together with our players."
Roger really lost me there. How is calling attention to police brutality/mass incarceration against minorities preventing progress from being made.. exactly?
it's not; he's bullshitting the words the bad part of his audience wants to hear.
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On October 11 2017 05:15 Slaughter wrote:
It would be funny to see the Cowboys players do it to see Jerry Jones eat his words or tank his team.
I do love how twitter quickly turned this into everyone rallying around the Cowboys tanking their seasons by bench all their black players. Very much a “Go ahead. You won’t. You’re afraid to put those black players in their place.”
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On October 11 2017 05:29 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 05:15 Slaughter wrote:
It would be funny to see the Cowboys players do it to see Jerry Jones eat his words or tank his team. I do love how twitter quickly turned this into everyone rallying around the Cowboys tanking their seasons by bench all their black players. Very much a “Go ahead. You won’t. You’re afraid to put those black players in their place.”
Well, there are cowboys fans, and #of not cowboy fans, seems reasonable to me that people would want to see cowboys bench half a team, even if they have no stance on the whole kneeling thing.
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On October 11 2017 05:33 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 05:29 Plansix wrote:On October 11 2017 05:15 Slaughter wrote:
It would be funny to see the Cowboys players do it to see Jerry Jones eat his words or tank his team. I do love how twitter quickly turned this into everyone rallying around the Cowboys tanking their seasons by bench all their black players. Very much a “Go ahead. You won’t. You’re afraid to put those black players in their place.” Well, there are cowboys fans, and #of not cowboy fans, seems reasonable to me that people would want to see cowboys bench half a team, even if they have no stance on the whole kneeling thing.
Much like the hating the Patriots, the hating the Cowboys unifies many people.
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On October 11 2017 05:38 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 05:33 Amui wrote:On October 11 2017 05:29 Plansix wrote:On October 11 2017 05:15 Slaughter wrote:
It would be funny to see the Cowboys players do it to see Jerry Jones eat his words or tank his team. I do love how twitter quickly turned this into everyone rallying around the Cowboys tanking their seasons by bench all their black players. Very much a “Go ahead. You won’t. You’re afraid to put those black players in their place.” Well, there are cowboys fans, and #of not cowboy fans, seems reasonable to me that people would want to see cowboys bench half a team, even if they have no stance on the whole kneeling thing. Much like the hating the Patriots, the hating the Cowboys unifies many people.
#FuckDallas
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On October 11 2017 05:18 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I mean, legally, the NFL can't tell the players to stop protesting.
Do you mean legally enforce disobedience? They can say, legally, that players should stop picking their nose on the sidelines, or should wear pink underpants, or should not eat skittles. They can tell the players all kinds of nonsense.
It's their right, while they can get fired? Yea, but expect lawsuits. While these two are different situations, I think it comes down to how the supreme court is pretty ambiguous in it's meaning. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/lawsuit-teen-expelled-sitting-pledge-allegiance-50348128https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/319/624Show nested quote +"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us."
Show nested quote +"It seems trite but necessary to say that the First Amendment to our Constitution was designed to avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings. There is no mysticism in the American concept of the State or of the nature or origin of its authority. We set up government by consent of the governed, and the Bill of Rights denies those in power any legal opportunity to coerce that consent. Authority here is to be controlled by public opinion, not public opinion by authority."
If they want to fire the player, they'll have to show how he violated their contract (union's collective bargaining agreement). If they want to bench the player, he's well within his rights. If he was a player at a public institution, that's when things get hairy.
Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said Sunday that any player who disrespects the flag won't play in Cowboys games. What are the legal ramifications to a statement like that?
Probably none. He's a private employer so he's free to make any rules he wants that infringe on free speech. He's totally unconstrained legally. It's probably not the smartest thing to do because the first time someone like Dak Prescott or Zeke Elliott takes a knee and he doesn't sit them, he'll look foolish. The more interesting thing will be when an NCAA coach at a public university tries to do that because then with the public university and First Amendment rights, the university is the government. Those programs will have a difficult time taking that position (against kneeling). There's no legal constraint for the NFL, though the Collective Bargaining Agreement can have.
As the owner and thus their employer, what leeway do Jones and team owners have to restrict those demonstrations?
They certainly could from a First Amendment perspective. From a legal perspective, the only constraints would be if they're in the union agreement.
The NFL players association issued a statement that owners said they would respect the constitutional rights of our members without retribution. But prohibiting kneeling during the anthem doesn't violate constitutional rights, does it?
That is correct. It protects your right to have opinions against government intrusion, not to exercise that right at work.
Having said that, all of us should be very wary of a world where employers make employment decisions based on political beliefs. All of us can understand in the long run why that might not benefit society. But that's a values issue, not a First Amendment issue.
Attorney interviewed for Dallas News
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Is the legality of silencing the players in any way important?
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On October 11 2017 05:39 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 05:38 Plansix wrote:On October 11 2017 05:33 Amui wrote:On October 11 2017 05:29 Plansix wrote:On October 11 2017 05:15 Slaughter wrote:
It would be funny to see the Cowboys players do it to see Jerry Jones eat his words or tank his team. I do love how twitter quickly turned this into everyone rallying around the Cowboys tanking their seasons by bench all their black players. Very much a “Go ahead. You won’t. You’re afraid to put those black players in their place.” Well, there are cowboys fans, and #of not cowboy fans, seems reasonable to me that people would want to see cowboys bench half a team, even if they have no stance on the whole kneeling thing. Much like the hating the Patriots, the hating the Cowboys unifies many people. #FuckDallas
Their coach said he would bench any play who kneels, so lets see how that works out. Personally, I don’t think his bosses are going to be super thrilled if he goes through with it.
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The real issue is not about how legal it is to punish players who protest. Its about whether teams are willing to destroy themselves by benching half their team over said protest.
1 player is easily dealt with. whole groups of them is another matter. That is where the power of player unions and mass protests comes from.
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EPT
