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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
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On October 02 2017 10:05 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2017 09:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
The 'bernie is a leftist donald trump' isn't accurate at all. But that he was less able to go into detail on how to accomplish his political goals than Hillary was, that's a totally legitimate point of view. I thought he came off as somewhat dishonest when talking about his tax plan, and I thought he came off as not knowing what he was talking about when he talked about regulating wall street. But if you're making a 'policy wonk scale'
and it goes like
totally wonk totally clueless
--X------------------------------------------------------------------------D--
then if Hillary is the big X and Trump is the big D then Bernie is way left on that scale. I wouldn't really argue with this other than to say that Bernie is known by people on both sides of the aisle as "the most honest man in the Senate" so if we were to adjust that scale to measure honesty, Hillary's a lot closer to Trump on the honesty scale than Bernie is to Trump on the clueless scale. I am not going to dispute that Bernie is more honest than Hilary though no one is close to as dishonest as Trump. Trump might be the first politician who ever lies more than he tells the truth. He lies so much that I basically assume he is lying until proven otherwise. Honestly, my assessment of Hilary though is that she is far too calculating and quick to see avenues of attack which leads to her looking very rehearsed and robotic. Oddly enough though, because I wanted to check up on some figures before talking about this, if you trust Politifact as a source (I dont always but for the purposes of this experiment they are adequate I guess) her and Bernie had pretty much the same ratings. They had the same number (50%) of combined "Truths" and "Mostly Trues" and it hits 73% when you add in "half true" to that mix. For context, Trump is sitting at 17% on the first number and 32% on the second. I am sure I could find more sources which would of course validate that Bernie is more honest than Hilary, but I suspect Hilary is not as dishonest as you would think and nowhere near Trumps level. If you were doing a Bernie to Trump honestly scale she scales much more heavily to Bernie then Trump (honestly though I'd probably use Biden as an honestly scale since he has no filter at all).
I wouldn't take politifact on this but I said what I meant and I don't think you actually refuted that. As for being more alike I can't imagine Trump inviting, or Bernie going, to his wedding.
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On October 02 2017 10:05 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2017 09:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
The 'bernie is a leftist donald trump' isn't accurate at all. But that he was less able to go into detail on how to accomplish his political goals than Hillary was, that's a totally legitimate point of view. I thought he came off as somewhat dishonest when talking about his tax plan, and I thought he came off as not knowing what he was talking about when he talked about regulating wall street. But if you're making a 'policy wonk scale'
and it goes like
totally wonk totally clueless
--X------------------------------------------------------------------------D--
then if Hillary is the big X and Trump is the big D then Bernie is way left on that scale. I wouldn't really argue with this other than to say that Bernie is known by people on both sides of the aisle as "the most honest man in the Senate" so if we were to adjust that scale to measure honesty, Hillary's a lot closer to Trump on the honesty scale than Bernie is to Trump on the clueless scale. I am not going to dispute that Bernie is more honest than Hilary though no one is close to as dishonest as Trump. Trump might be the first politician who ever lies more than he tells the truth. He lies so much that I basically assume he is lying until proven otherwise. Honestly, my assessment of Hilary though is that she is far too calculating and quick to see avenues of attack which leads to her looking very rehearsed and robotic. Oddly enough though, because I wanted to check up on some figures before talking about this, if you trust Politifact as a source (I dont always but for the purposes of this experiment they are adequate I guess) her and Bernie had pretty much the same ratings. They had the same number (50%) of combined "Truths" and "Mostly Trues" and it hits 73% when you add in "half true" to that mix. For context, Trump is sitting at 17% on the first number and 32% on the second. I am sure I could find more sources which would of course validate that Bernie is more honest than Hilary, but I suspect Hilary is not as dishonest as you would think and nowhere near Trumps level. If you were doing a Bernie to Trump honestly scale she scales much more heavily to Bernie then Trump (honestly though I'd probably use Biden as an honestly scale since he has no filter at all).
Trump might exaggerate things to maximize the rhetoric but the general direction of his message are all factual though.
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United States24772 Posts
On October 02 2017 10:39 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 10:05 Adreme wrote:On October 02 2017 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2017 09:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
The 'bernie is a leftist donald trump' isn't accurate at all. But that he was less able to go into detail on how to accomplish his political goals than Hillary was, that's a totally legitimate point of view. I thought he came off as somewhat dishonest when talking about his tax plan, and I thought he came off as not knowing what he was talking about when he talked about regulating wall street. But if you're making a 'policy wonk scale'
and it goes like
totally wonk totally clueless
--X------------------------------------------------------------------------D--
then if Hillary is the big X and Trump is the big D then Bernie is way left on that scale. I wouldn't really argue with this other than to say that Bernie is known by people on both sides of the aisle as "the most honest man in the Senate" so if we were to adjust that scale to measure honesty, Hillary's a lot closer to Trump on the honesty scale than Bernie is to Trump on the clueless scale. I am not going to dispute that Bernie is more honest than Hilary though no one is close to as dishonest as Trump. Trump might be the first politician who ever lies more than he tells the truth. He lies so much that I basically assume he is lying until proven otherwise. Honestly, my assessment of Hilary though is that she is far too calculating and quick to see avenues of attack which leads to her looking very rehearsed and robotic. Oddly enough though, because I wanted to check up on some figures before talking about this, if you trust Politifact as a source (I dont always but for the purposes of this experiment they are adequate I guess) her and Bernie had pretty much the same ratings. They had the same number (50%) of combined "Truths" and "Mostly Trues" and it hits 73% when you add in "half true" to that mix. For context, Trump is sitting at 17% on the first number and 32% on the second. I am sure I could find more sources which would of course validate that Bernie is more honest than Hilary, but I suspect Hilary is not as dishonest as you would think and nowhere near Trumps level. If you were doing a Bernie to Trump honestly scale she scales much more heavily to Bernie then Trump (honestly though I'd probably use Biden as an honestly scale since he has no filter at all). Trump might exaggerate things to maximize the rhetoric but the general direction of his message are all factual though. I grade this post as mostly false.
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Ted Cruz's father was involved in the Kennedy asssasination seems to be devoid of any factual truth at all (other than there is a blurry photograph and if you try hard enough he kind of looks like him.) There's plenty of others.
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United States43978 Posts
On October 02 2017 10:39 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 10:05 Adreme wrote:On October 02 2017 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2017 09:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
The 'bernie is a leftist donald trump' isn't accurate at all. But that he was less able to go into detail on how to accomplish his political goals than Hillary was, that's a totally legitimate point of view. I thought he came off as somewhat dishonest when talking about his tax plan, and I thought he came off as not knowing what he was talking about when he talked about regulating wall street. But if you're making a 'policy wonk scale'
and it goes like
totally wonk totally clueless
--X------------------------------------------------------------------------D--
then if Hillary is the big X and Trump is the big D then Bernie is way left on that scale. I wouldn't really argue with this other than to say that Bernie is known by people on both sides of the aisle as "the most honest man in the Senate" so if we were to adjust that scale to measure honesty, Hillary's a lot closer to Trump on the honesty scale than Bernie is to Trump on the clueless scale. I am not going to dispute that Bernie is more honest than Hilary though no one is close to as dishonest as Trump. Trump might be the first politician who ever lies more than he tells the truth. He lies so much that I basically assume he is lying until proven otherwise. Honestly, my assessment of Hilary though is that she is far too calculating and quick to see avenues of attack which leads to her looking very rehearsed and robotic. Oddly enough though, because I wanted to check up on some figures before talking about this, if you trust Politifact as a source (I dont always but for the purposes of this experiment they are adequate I guess) her and Bernie had pretty much the same ratings. They had the same number (50%) of combined "Truths" and "Mostly Trues" and it hits 73% when you add in "half true" to that mix. For context, Trump is sitting at 17% on the first number and 32% on the second. I am sure I could find more sources which would of course validate that Bernie is more honest than Hilary, but I suspect Hilary is not as dishonest as you would think and nowhere near Trumps level. If you were doing a Bernie to Trump honestly scale she scales much more heavily to Bernie then Trump (honestly though I'd probably use Biden as an honestly scale since he has no filter at all). Trump might exaggerate things to maximize the rhetoric but the general direction of his message are all factual though.
no
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On October 02 2017 10:39 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 10:05 Adreme wrote:On October 02 2017 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2017 09:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
The 'bernie is a leftist donald trump' isn't accurate at all. But that he was less able to go into detail on how to accomplish his political goals than Hillary was, that's a totally legitimate point of view. I thought he came off as somewhat dishonest when talking about his tax plan, and I thought he came off as not knowing what he was talking about when he talked about regulating wall street. But if you're making a 'policy wonk scale'
and it goes like
totally wonk totally clueless
--X------------------------------------------------------------------------D--
then if Hillary is the big X and Trump is the big D then Bernie is way left on that scale. I wouldn't really argue with this other than to say that Bernie is known by people on both sides of the aisle as "the most honest man in the Senate" so if we were to adjust that scale to measure honesty, Hillary's a lot closer to Trump on the honesty scale than Bernie is to Trump on the clueless scale. I am not going to dispute that Bernie is more honest than Hilary though no one is close to as dishonest as Trump. Trump might be the first politician who ever lies more than he tells the truth. He lies so much that I basically assume he is lying until proven otherwise. Honestly, my assessment of Hilary though is that she is far too calculating and quick to see avenues of attack which leads to her looking very rehearsed and robotic. Oddly enough though, because I wanted to check up on some figures before talking about this, if you trust Politifact as a source (I dont always but for the purposes of this experiment they are adequate I guess) her and Bernie had pretty much the same ratings. They had the same number (50%) of combined "Truths" and "Mostly Trues" and it hits 73% when you add in "half true" to that mix. For context, Trump is sitting at 17% on the first number and 32% on the second. I am sure I could find more sources which would of course validate that Bernie is more honest than Hilary, but I suspect Hilary is not as dishonest as you would think and nowhere near Trumps level. If you were doing a Bernie to Trump honestly scale she scales much more heavily to Bernie then Trump (honestly though I'd probably use Biden as an honestly scale since he has no filter at all). Trump might exaggerate things to maximize the rhetoric but the general direction of his message are all factual though.
If I were to start listing all the completely fabricated claims he makes that have no basis in any reality, I would not get any sleep tonight so suffice to say, he is a liar to an extent that if you just assume every word from his mouth has no basis in reality you will right more than wrong
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On October 02 2017 11:09 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 10:39 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 02 2017 10:05 Adreme wrote:On October 02 2017 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2017 09:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
The 'bernie is a leftist donald trump' isn't accurate at all. But that he was less able to go into detail on how to accomplish his political goals than Hillary was, that's a totally legitimate point of view. I thought he came off as somewhat dishonest when talking about his tax plan, and I thought he came off as not knowing what he was talking about when he talked about regulating wall street. But if you're making a 'policy wonk scale'
and it goes like
totally wonk totally clueless
--X------------------------------------------------------------------------D--
then if Hillary is the big X and Trump is the big D then Bernie is way left on that scale. I wouldn't really argue with this other than to say that Bernie is known by people on both sides of the aisle as "the most honest man in the Senate" so if we were to adjust that scale to measure honesty, Hillary's a lot closer to Trump on the honesty scale than Bernie is to Trump on the clueless scale. I am not going to dispute that Bernie is more honest than Hilary though no one is close to as dishonest as Trump. Trump might be the first politician who ever lies more than he tells the truth. He lies so much that I basically assume he is lying until proven otherwise. Honestly, my assessment of Hilary though is that she is far too calculating and quick to see avenues of attack which leads to her looking very rehearsed and robotic. Oddly enough though, because I wanted to check up on some figures before talking about this, if you trust Politifact as a source (I dont always but for the purposes of this experiment they are adequate I guess) her and Bernie had pretty much the same ratings. They had the same number (50%) of combined "Truths" and "Mostly Trues" and it hits 73% when you add in "half true" to that mix. For context, Trump is sitting at 17% on the first number and 32% on the second. I am sure I could find more sources which would of course validate that Bernie is more honest than Hilary, but I suspect Hilary is not as dishonest as you would think and nowhere near Trumps level. If you were doing a Bernie to Trump honestly scale she scales much more heavily to Bernie then Trump (honestly though I'd probably use Biden as an honestly scale since he has no filter at all). Trump might exaggerate things to maximize the rhetoric but the general direction of his message are all factual though. If I were to start listing all the completely fabricated claims he makes that have no basis in any reality, I would not get any sleep tonight so suffice to say, he is a liar to an extent that if you just assume every word from his mouth has no basis in reality you will right more than wrong
You can list like 3.
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United States43978 Posts
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how about the state department spokesperson today tweeting that NK will not obtain nuclear capabilities? thats the Trump administration
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On October 02 2017 11:27 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 11:09 Adreme wrote:On October 02 2017 10:39 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 02 2017 10:05 Adreme wrote:On October 02 2017 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2017 09:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
The 'bernie is a leftist donald trump' isn't accurate at all. But that he was less able to go into detail on how to accomplish his political goals than Hillary was, that's a totally legitimate point of view. I thought he came off as somewhat dishonest when talking about his tax plan, and I thought he came off as not knowing what he was talking about when he talked about regulating wall street. But if you're making a 'policy wonk scale'
and it goes like
totally wonk totally clueless
--X------------------------------------------------------------------------D--
then if Hillary is the big X and Trump is the big D then Bernie is way left on that scale. I wouldn't really argue with this other than to say that Bernie is known by people on both sides of the aisle as "the most honest man in the Senate" so if we were to adjust that scale to measure honesty, Hillary's a lot closer to Trump on the honesty scale than Bernie is to Trump on the clueless scale. I am not going to dispute that Bernie is more honest than Hilary though no one is close to as dishonest as Trump. Trump might be the first politician who ever lies more than he tells the truth. He lies so much that I basically assume he is lying until proven otherwise. Honestly, my assessment of Hilary though is that she is far too calculating and quick to see avenues of attack which leads to her looking very rehearsed and robotic. Oddly enough though, because I wanted to check up on some figures before talking about this, if you trust Politifact as a source (I dont always but for the purposes of this experiment they are adequate I guess) her and Bernie had pretty much the same ratings. They had the same number (50%) of combined "Truths" and "Mostly Trues" and it hits 73% when you add in "half true" to that mix. For context, Trump is sitting at 17% on the first number and 32% on the second. I am sure I could find more sources which would of course validate that Bernie is more honest than Hilary, but I suspect Hilary is not as dishonest as you would think and nowhere near Trumps level. If you were doing a Bernie to Trump honestly scale she scales much more heavily to Bernie then Trump (honestly though I'd probably use Biden as an honestly scale since he has no filter at all). Trump might exaggerate things to maximize the rhetoric but the general direction of his message are all factual though. If I were to start listing all the completely fabricated claims he makes that have no basis in any reality, I would not get any sleep tonight so suffice to say, he is a liar to an extent that if you just assume every word from his mouth has no basis in reality you will right more than wrong You can list like 3.
How about
1) That Americans were counting on that much needed ACA repeal, as Republicans shat out uglier and uglier bills.
2) That Democrats were only obstructionists, when they had no majorities.
3) That we're doing a great job helping out Puerto Rico. They're fucking dying dude.
4) Covfefe.
There, I did 4. Be grateful.
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United States43978 Posts
I mean at one point he said that Obama was the founder of ISIS and when someone sought to clarify if he was exaggerating or being hyperbolic he specified that he meant that Obama was the literal founder of the group ISIS.
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On October 02 2017 10:48 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 10:39 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 02 2017 10:05 Adreme wrote:On October 02 2017 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2017 09:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
The 'bernie is a leftist donald trump' isn't accurate at all. But that he was less able to go into detail on how to accomplish his political goals than Hillary was, that's a totally legitimate point of view. I thought he came off as somewhat dishonest when talking about his tax plan, and I thought he came off as not knowing what he was talking about when he talked about regulating wall street. But if you're making a 'policy wonk scale'
and it goes like
totally wonk totally clueless
--X------------------------------------------------------------------------D--
then if Hillary is the big X and Trump is the big D then Bernie is way left on that scale. I wouldn't really argue with this other than to say that Bernie is known by people on both sides of the aisle as "the most honest man in the Senate" so if we were to adjust that scale to measure honesty, Hillary's a lot closer to Trump on the honesty scale than Bernie is to Trump on the clueless scale. I am not going to dispute that Bernie is more honest than Hilary though no one is close to as dishonest as Trump. Trump might be the first politician who ever lies more than he tells the truth. He lies so much that I basically assume he is lying until proven otherwise. Honestly, my assessment of Hilary though is that she is far too calculating and quick to see avenues of attack which leads to her looking very rehearsed and robotic. Oddly enough though, because I wanted to check up on some figures before talking about this, if you trust Politifact as a source (I dont always but for the purposes of this experiment they are adequate I guess) her and Bernie had pretty much the same ratings. They had the same number (50%) of combined "Truths" and "Mostly Trues" and it hits 73% when you add in "half true" to that mix. For context, Trump is sitting at 17% on the first number and 32% on the second. I am sure I could find more sources which would of course validate that Bernie is more honest than Hilary, but I suspect Hilary is not as dishonest as you would think and nowhere near Trumps level. If you were doing a Bernie to Trump honestly scale she scales much more heavily to Bernie then Trump (honestly though I'd probably use Biden as an honestly scale since he has no filter at all). Trump might exaggerate things to maximize the rhetoric but the general direction of his message are all factual though. I grade this post as mostly false.
I think you mean "Pants on fire".
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United States43978 Posts
At another point he claimed the unemployment rate was 42%. His own administration lists it as 4.4%.
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On October 02 2017 11:51 KwarK wrote:
I mean at one point he said that Obama was the founder of ISIS and when someone sought to clarify if he was exaggerating or being hyperbolic he specified that he meant that Obama was the literal founder of the group ISIS.
Oh ok, everything makes a little more sense now.
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United States43978 Posts
He claimed the American gross domestic product in 2016 was below zero. To put that number in context, GDP is the total value of the economic activity of the nation. For example the GDP of Atlantis was probably close to $0 in 2016. If all Americans were to immediately die then the GDP would remain what it was by this point in the year and not increase. It literally cannot be below zero. That would require less than no economic activity.
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On October 02 2017 11:51 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 11:27 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 02 2017 11:09 Adreme wrote:On October 02 2017 10:39 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 02 2017 10:05 Adreme wrote:On October 02 2017 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2017 09:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
The 'bernie is a leftist donald trump' isn't accurate at all. But that he was less able to go into detail on how to accomplish his political goals than Hillary was, that's a totally legitimate point of view. I thought he came off as somewhat dishonest when talking about his tax plan, and I thought he came off as not knowing what he was talking about when he talked about regulating wall street. But if you're making a 'policy wonk scale'
and it goes like
totally wonk totally clueless
--X------------------------------------------------------------------------D--
then if Hillary is the big X and Trump is the big D then Bernie is way left on that scale. I wouldn't really argue with this other than to say that Bernie is known by people on both sides of the aisle as "the most honest man in the Senate" so if we were to adjust that scale to measure honesty, Hillary's a lot closer to Trump on the honesty scale than Bernie is to Trump on the clueless scale. I am not going to dispute that Bernie is more honest than Hilary though no one is close to as dishonest as Trump. Trump might be the first politician who ever lies more than he tells the truth. He lies so much that I basically assume he is lying until proven otherwise. Honestly, my assessment of Hilary though is that she is far too calculating and quick to see avenues of attack which leads to her looking very rehearsed and robotic. Oddly enough though, because I wanted to check up on some figures before talking about this, if you trust Politifact as a source (I dont always but for the purposes of this experiment they are adequate I guess) her and Bernie had pretty much the same ratings. They had the same number (50%) of combined "Truths" and "Mostly Trues" and it hits 73% when you add in "half true" to that mix. For context, Trump is sitting at 17% on the first number and 32% on the second. I am sure I could find more sources which would of course validate that Bernie is more honest than Hilary, but I suspect Hilary is not as dishonest as you would think and nowhere near Trumps level. If you were doing a Bernie to Trump honestly scale she scales much more heavily to Bernie then Trump (honestly though I'd probably use Biden as an honestly scale since he has no filter at all). Trump might exaggerate things to maximize the rhetoric but the general direction of his message are all factual though. If I were to start listing all the completely fabricated claims he makes that have no basis in any reality, I would not get any sleep tonight so suffice to say, he is a liar to an extent that if you just assume every word from his mouth has no basis in reality you will right more than wrong You can list like 3. How about 1) That Americans were counting on that much needed ACA repeal, as Republicans shat out uglier and uglier bills. 2) That Democrats were only obstructionists, when they had no majorities. 3) That we're doing a great job helping out Puerto Rico. They're fucking dying dude. 4) Covfefe. There, I did 4. Be grateful.
1) Republican's fault, we all know how many swamp to drain.
2) Republicans + Dems obstruct Trump's plan.
3) Yeah people tend to die in natural disaster, Feds doing great with what they have.
4) He and a significant group of people know exactly what he means by that.
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United States43978 Posts
Yeah, like seriously guys, is it so unbelievable that covfefe would be a code word intended to convey a secret message to a select group of people who can only be contacted by Twitter?
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On October 02 2017 12:26 KwarK wrote:
Yeah, like seriously guys, is it so unbelievable that covfefe would be a code word intended to convey a secret message to a select group of people who can only be contacted by Twitter?
I don't doubt there may or may not be secret messages in his twitter, one of the reasons why they haven't been able to remove him from using it. But let's not go down that rabbit hole...
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EPT
