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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Northern Ireland22207 Posts
On October 02 2017 20:45 Broetchenholer wrote:
Yeah yeah, fully automatic weapons are regulated, you have to hit the trigger for those guns, which makes them completely worthless. Those semi automatic assault type weapons can basically not be used for anything....
Just responding to a particularly emotive but factually wrong post. This isn't the thread to discuss gun laws.
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A politics tread isn't the place to discuss gun laws?
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On October 02 2017 20:40 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 20:36 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2017 20:27 ahswtini wrote:On October 02 2017 19:43 Leporello wrote:
Well, the party of Trump has always had this awesome, intelligent belief that proliferating millions of automatic weapons into random civies would just make things wonderful and safe.
I'm tired of living with this evil. So fucking done with it. They're saying over 50 dead. From 1 geriatric man.
But at least we have our fucking militias. We may have enabled our population to commit mass-violence on any given whim, but at least I know my government will never be usurped by some lunatic who is actually a foreign-puppet. Oh, wait... Just factually wrong. There is no proliferation of millions of automatic weapons. Automatic weapons have been heavily regulated since 1986. Based on my understanding of the law, since 1986: 1. No new automatic firearms can be sold in USA to civilians. 2. About ~150k existing automatic firearms that were legally owned at the time can still be bought and sold. 3. Any transfer of one of those automatic firearms is very heavily scrutinized, regulated, and licensed by the Federal government, at the kind of level that even progressives like myself are satisfied. As a result, if you wanted to purchase an automatic firearm (legally) in USA, you'd need to go through very extensive background checks, and the firearm would cost $5,000 at LEAST. Also, as far as I understand it, no changes have been made to these laws recently. Yep, thanks for elaborating. Like I mentioned earlier, from the audio of the gunshots, it sounds like the firearm was modified to be automatic, or bump fired Hard to tell with all the echos and such but could very well be modified. Seems a bit too consistent to be bump firing unless they had a reasonable amount of experience. But at his age that's quite reasonable. Haven't seen details on weapons found, just that there were multiple. At some points it did sound like a both a higher and lower caliber weapon firing at the same time, but again the audio is tough to discern.
@Velr I suspect they mean this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/313472-if-youre-seeing-this-topic-then-another-mass-shooting-happened-and-people-disagree-on-what-to-do
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On October 02 2017 20:51 Velr wrote:
A politics tread isn't the place to discuss gun laws?
It would be but we made.a different thread to discuss them beacuse.the conversation doesn't change and the same.things are said.every time.
As someone who's next.to a.gunsmithing program its not impossible to create an automatic trigger mechanism. It may not work very well but for something like.this it's enough.
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Gun control is one of the topics where we're past talking, to be honest.
We can all pretend that we have a healthy and respectful disagreement in the free marketplace of ideas. At the end of the day it won't change the fact that the only reason why you don't have stricter gun control laws is because gun manufacturers are paying off ideologically bankrupt politicians so that those laws don't get put in place, and we pretty much all know that.
I've come up with a solution though. Since guns don't kill people, people kill people, I think you should remove people from America, and leave only the guns there.
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On October 02 2017 11:27 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 11:09 Adreme wrote:On October 02 2017 10:39 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 02 2017 10:05 Adreme wrote:On October 02 2017 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2017 09:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
The 'bernie is a leftist donald trump' isn't accurate at all. But that he was less able to go into detail on how to accomplish his political goals than Hillary was, that's a totally legitimate point of view. I thought he came off as somewhat dishonest when talking about his tax plan, and I thought he came off as not knowing what he was talking about when he talked about regulating wall street. But if you're making a 'policy wonk scale'
and it goes like
totally wonk totally clueless
--X------------------------------------------------------------------------D--
then if Hillary is the big X and Trump is the big D then Bernie is way left on that scale. I wouldn't really argue with this other than to say that Bernie is known by people on both sides of the aisle as "the most honest man in the Senate" so if we were to adjust that scale to measure honesty, Hillary's a lot closer to Trump on the honesty scale than Bernie is to Trump on the clueless scale. I am not going to dispute that Bernie is more honest than Hilary though no one is close to as dishonest as Trump. Trump might be the first politician who ever lies more than he tells the truth. He lies so much that I basically assume he is lying until proven otherwise. Honestly, my assessment of Hilary though is that she is far too calculating and quick to see avenues of attack which leads to her looking very rehearsed and robotic. Oddly enough though, because I wanted to check up on some figures before talking about this, if you trust Politifact as a source (I dont always but for the purposes of this experiment they are adequate I guess) her and Bernie had pretty much the same ratings. They had the same number (50%) of combined "Truths" and "Mostly Trues" and it hits 73% when you add in "half true" to that mix. For context, Trump is sitting at 17% on the first number and 32% on the second. I am sure I could find more sources which would of course validate that Bernie is more honest than Hilary, but I suspect Hilary is not as dishonest as you would think and nowhere near Trumps level. If you were doing a Bernie to Trump honestly scale she scales much more heavily to Bernie then Trump (honestly though I'd probably use Biden as an honestly scale since he has no filter at all). Trump might exaggerate things to maximize the rhetoric but the general direction of his message are all factual though. If I were to start listing all the completely fabricated claims he makes that have no basis in any reality, I would not get any sleep tonight so suffice to say, he is a liar to an extent that if you just assume every word from his mouth has no basis in reality you will right more than wrong You can list like 3.
I ended up going to bed but here are my 3 and I picked these because they cannot be defended as anything more then a fabrication
1. He claimed that he saw on TV Muslims cheering after 9/11 in New Jersey. Unfortunately for him TVs keep there recordings so they all went back to that day and when there not a single TV station showing that footage and they called him on it he said it was still there you just had to look for it
2. Everything involving that Birther nonsense but mainly what happened after it was produced. A lot of people forget this part but after it was produced Trump said he sent his personal investigators to Hawaii to look for evidence it was fraudulent and kept telling the media for weeks they had found a lot of interesting stuff and that people were going to be shocked when they heard what they found. Then he quietly stopped talking about it because there was nothing to find.
3. He started that claim about Ted Cruz's dad being involved in the Kennedy assassination which might have been the most disgusting claim he did to date and again no basis in reality.
I could have kept going for awhile about how he claimed Obama (and note only Obama) was rigging the unemployment numbers to make them look lower than they were, how he lied about donating 6m to veterans, or even smaller lies that I am not sure why he tells like that CNNs ratings are down, the counterprotesters in Charlottsville did not have a permit, ending the estate tax would would protect "millions" when its really 80, that wages have not gone up for a long time despite them having gone up pretty consistently over the past 3 years albeit slowly, how he has insisted he has signed more bills then any president since FDR at this point in his presidency.
Basically if there is a thing he will lie about it to make himself look good and I could have kept going but now I have to go make breakfast.
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The gun manufacturers want to sell guns to criminals and then sell guns to people to protect themselves from the criminals. And then sell bigger guns to police to stop the criminals. Of course, this means that free citizens also need bigger guns than the state, to protect themselves from oppression.
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On October 02 2017 22:03 Plansix wrote:
The gun manufacturers want to sell guns to criminals and then sell guns to people to protect themselves from the criminals. And then sell bigger guns to police to stop the criminals. Of course, this means that free citizens also need bigger guns than the state, to protect themselves from oppression.
Just wondering, is there any other nation in the world that has this culture where they need to have guns to protect themselves from the state?
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On October 02 2017 22:22 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 22:03 Plansix wrote:
The gun manufacturers want to sell guns to criminals and then sell guns to people to protect themselves from the criminals. And then sell bigger guns to police to stop the criminals. Of course, this means that free citizens also need bigger guns than the state, to protect themselves from oppression. Just wondering, is there any other nation in the world that has this culture where they need to have guns to protect themselves from the state?
Some bad parts of Africa maybe?
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On October 02 2017 22:22 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 22:03 Plansix wrote:
The gun manufacturers want to sell guns to criminals and then sell guns to people to protect themselves from the criminals. And then sell bigger guns to police to stop the criminals. Of course, this means that free citizens also need bigger guns than the state, to protect themselves from oppression. Just wondering, is there any other nation in the world that has this culture where they need to have guns to protect themselves from the state?
There were points in history were it would have been nice, but mostly no. If the government is going to come for you, small arms won’t save you.
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On October 02 2017 22:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 22:22 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On October 02 2017 22:03 Plansix wrote:
The gun manufacturers want to sell guns to criminals and then sell guns to people to protect themselves from the criminals. And then sell bigger guns to police to stop the criminals. Of course, this means that free citizens also need bigger guns than the state, to protect themselves from oppression. Just wondering, is there any other nation in the world that has this culture where they need to have guns to protect themselves from the state? There were points in history were it would have been nice, but mostly no. If the government is going to come for you, small arms won’t save you.
I can think of some people in the middle east that would disagree with you.
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On October 02 2017 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 22:34 Plansix wrote:On October 02 2017 22:22 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On October 02 2017 22:03 Plansix wrote:
The gun manufacturers want to sell guns to criminals and then sell guns to people to protect themselves from the criminals. And then sell bigger guns to police to stop the criminals. Of course, this means that free citizens also need bigger guns than the state, to protect themselves from oppression. Just wondering, is there any other nation in the world that has this culture where they need to have guns to protect themselves from the state? There were points in history were it would have been nice, but mostly no. If the government is going to come for you, small arms won’t save you. I can think of some people in the middle east that would disagree with you.
Yes, there are always exceptions if we broaden the scope of the discussion to the entire planet and all its governments. If we broaden it to all of history, then we might as well not have the discussion.
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On October 02 2017 22:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 02 2017 22:34 Plansix wrote:On October 02 2017 22:22 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On October 02 2017 22:03 Plansix wrote:
The gun manufacturers want to sell guns to criminals and then sell guns to people to protect themselves from the criminals. And then sell bigger guns to police to stop the criminals. Of course, this means that free citizens also need bigger guns than the state, to protect themselves from oppression. Just wondering, is there any other nation in the world that has this culture where they need to have guns to protect themselves from the state? There were points in history were it would have been nice, but mostly no. If the government is going to come for you, small arms won’t save you. I can think of some people in the middle east that would disagree with you. Yes, there are always exceptions if we broaden the scope of the discussion to the entire planet and all its governments. If we broaden it to all of history, then we might as well not have the discussion.
I was thinking about ones that have been defending themselves against the strongest governments in the world (including the US) for decades using primarily weapons you can buy in a place like Nevada.
Weapons certainly matter, but there are other aspects to either revolution or resisting tyranny besides your armory.
Can take it to the other thread if we have to go on.
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United States42004 Posts
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Trump is going to speak on it @ 10:30AM EST.
Odds he mentions his hotel in Vegas?
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United States42004 Posts
On October 02 2017 23:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
Trump is going to speak on it @ 10:30AM EST.
Odds he mentions his hotel in Vegas?
It's a near certainty. I'd also rate the chances that he calls the shooter a loser at over 90%.
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It may sound weird but ISIS just undertake the responsibilty of the attack..
I don't think a 60sh year old man, who lives in Nevada becomes an ISIS supporter...
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ISIS always does that, don't think too much into it
( i mean they always say it was one of them to do it)
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Northern Ireland22207 Posts
yes, daesh will claim responsibility for the wind blowing over your bin if they thought they could gain some propaganda value out of it
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Trumps statement stats now
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EPT
