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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8896

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
October 02 2017 03:36 GMT
#177901
I think Trump is pissing off all the right people which counts for something, at the very least. If the conservatives among us wanted him to stick it to the establishment then he's right on the money there.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
October 02 2017 04:56 GMT
#177902
On October 02 2017 12:22 RealityIsKing wrote:
4) He and a significant group of people know exactly what he means by that.

I know exactly what you mean. This tells me everything I need to know.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42653 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 05:59:38
October 02 2017 05:59 GMT
#177903
Trump may have spent the weekend golfing but the people of Puerto Rico were never far from his mind as shown by his dedication of a golfing trophy to them.
On behalf of all of the people of Texas, and all of the people -- if you look today and see what is happening, how horrible it is but we have it under really great control -- Puerto Rico and the people of Florida who have really suffered over this last short period of time with the hurricanes, I want to just remember them
I am certain that his remembering of them, and of his own really great control, will help inspire them to win their own golf trophies in the coming weeks.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 06:15:21
October 02 2017 06:13 GMT
#177904


Edit: jesus...

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
October 02 2017 07:09 GMT
#177905
On October 02 2017 15:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/914731999566422016

Edit: jesus...

https://twitter.com/braileyjones/status/914728970658000896


Sounded automatic with large magazines. That's not a cheap weapon.

Probably a lot of injured/casualties. It's a pretty horrific situation and the perpetrator is unlikely to be taken alive.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
October 02 2017 09:10 GMT
#177906
gunfire did not sound consistent like you would expect from a true automatic. suspect it's bumpfired or an amateur job to make it automatic
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 10:48:43
October 02 2017 10:43 GMT
#177907
Well, the party of Trump has always had this awesome, intelligent belief that proliferating millions of automatic weapons into random civies would just make things wonderful and safe.

I'm tired of living with this evil. So fucking done with it. They're saying over 50 dead. From 1 geriatric man.

But at least we have our fucking militias. We may have enabled our population to commit mass-violence on any given whim, but at least I know my government will never be usurped by some lunatic who is actually a foreign-puppet. Oh, wait...
Big water
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42381 Posts
October 02 2017 10:46 GMT
#177908
More and more people are announced dead. Tragic.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
October 02 2017 10:49 GMT
#177909
On October 02 2017 19:43 Leporello wrote:
Well, the party of Trump has always had this awesome, intelligent belief that proliferating millions of automatic weapons into random civies would just make things wonderful and safe.

I'm tired of living with this evil. So fucking done with it. They're saying over 50 dead. From 1 geriatric man.

But at least we have our fucking militias. That way I know my government will never be usurped by a foreign-puppet. Oh, wait...

I know this is too much to ask judging by every previous shooting since this thread was originally made, but can you wait until a little more info is out before completely politicizing this? What type of gun was being used? Was the shooter actually a swat team instructor? The context matters a lot if we are going to try to draw conclusions.

First of all we don't know the full scope of the tragedy but it's clearly very bad.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 11:01:12
October 02 2017 10:58 GMT
#177910
From 1 old man, over 50 dead, is confirmed.

This is politics. Tragedy is politics. I hardly need more details on this one instance to know that there is a serious heavy-gun proliferation problem in America, brought upon us by people who are classically, timelessly greedy and evil, and who are in fact, political operators, as they need to be to market and sell their "patriotic" flesh-ripping instruments.

I've said my piece, so I'll digress.
Big water
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
October 02 2017 11:02 GMT
#177911
On October 02 2017 19:58 Leporello wrote:
From 1 old man, over 50 dead, is confirmed.

This is politics. Tragedy is politics. I hardly need more details on this one instance to know that there is a serious heavy-gun proliferation problem in America, brought upon us by people who are classically, timelessly greedy and evil, and who are in fact, political operators, as they need to be to market and sell their "patriotic" flesh-ripping instruments.

It's quite possible that in many countries including those with very restrictive gun laws, someone like the shooter could have had access to the exact type of weapon used in the shooting (of which I still don't know what it is). If that's the case, then you really do need more details before bringing U.S. gun laws into it... the problem then would be something else. If your way of coping with tragedy is to make assumptions and try to start an argument in lieu of sufficient details to at least know what happened, then I suppose I wouldn't want to stop you from coping.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 02 2017 11:08 GMT
#177912
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 11:25:34
October 02 2017 11:10 GMT
#177913
I wonder how many are dead from shots and how many from stampede effects due to mass panic. Even though he fired many shots if you watch the videos, that's still a very high kill rate per shot if your just spraying from a balcony and already at 50 dead. Though maybe the crowd was so dense he just couldn't miss even from a distance :-X

Also how do you live to 64 and decide, yeah now is the time to shoot up some young people... wtf
Neosteel Enthusiast
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
October 02 2017 11:27 GMT
#177914
On October 02 2017 19:43 Leporello wrote:
Well, the party of Trump has always had this awesome, intelligent belief that proliferating millions of automatic weapons into random civies would just make things wonderful and safe.

I'm tired of living with this evil. So fucking done with it. They're saying over 50 dead. From 1 geriatric man.

But at least we have our fucking militias. We may have enabled our population to commit mass-violence on any given whim, but at least I know my government will never be usurped by some lunatic who is actually a foreign-puppet. Oh, wait...

Just factually wrong. There is no proliferation of millions of automatic weapons. Automatic weapons have been heavily regulated since 1986.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 02 2017 11:34 GMT
#177915
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”


Source

Evergreen. There is nothing that can be done.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
October 02 2017 11:36 GMT
#177916
On October 02 2017 20:27 ahswtini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2017 19:43 Leporello wrote:
Well, the party of Trump has always had this awesome, intelligent belief that proliferating millions of automatic weapons into random civies would just make things wonderful and safe.

I'm tired of living with this evil. So fucking done with it. They're saying over 50 dead. From 1 geriatric man.

But at least we have our fucking militias. We may have enabled our population to commit mass-violence on any given whim, but at least I know my government will never be usurped by some lunatic who is actually a foreign-puppet. Oh, wait...

Just factually wrong. There is no proliferation of millions of automatic weapons. Automatic weapons have been heavily regulated since 1986.


Based on my understanding of the law, since 1986:
1. No new automatic firearms can be sold in USA to civilians.
2. About ~150k existing automatic firearms that were legally owned at the time can still be bought and sold.
3. Any transfer of one of those automatic firearms is very heavily scrutinized, regulated, and licensed by the Federal government, at the kind of level that even progressives like myself are satisfied.

As a result, if you wanted to purchase an automatic firearm (legally) in USA, you'd need to go through very extensive background checks, and the firearm would cost $5,000 at LEAST.

Also, as far as I understand it, no changes have been made to these laws recently.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35143 Posts
October 02 2017 11:38 GMT
#177917
On October 02 2017 20:02 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2017 19:58 Leporello wrote:
From 1 old man, over 50 dead, is confirmed.

This is politics. Tragedy is politics. I hardly need more details on this one instance to know that there is a serious heavy-gun proliferation problem in America, brought upon us by people who are classically, timelessly greedy and evil, and who are in fact, political operators, as they need to be to market and sell their "patriotic" flesh-ripping instruments.

It's quite possible that in many countries including those with very restrictive gun laws, someone like the shooter could have had access to the exact type of weapon used in the shooting (of which I still don't know what it is). If that's the case, then you really do need more details before bringing U.S. gun laws into it... the problem then would be something else. If your way of coping with tragedy is to make assumptions and try to start an argument in lieu of sufficient details to at least know what happened, then I suppose I wouldn't want to stop you from coping.

Possible, but increasingly unlikely. There's a reason why countries where owning a gun is illegal/heavily regulated have fewer deaths from gunfire per capita. I'm tired of swaths of people being dead because somebody had a gun that shouldn't have.
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
October 02 2017 11:40 GMT
#177918
On October 02 2017 20:36 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2017 20:27 ahswtini wrote:
On October 02 2017 19:43 Leporello wrote:
Well, the party of Trump has always had this awesome, intelligent belief that proliferating millions of automatic weapons into random civies would just make things wonderful and safe.

I'm tired of living with this evil. So fucking done with it. They're saying over 50 dead. From 1 geriatric man.

But at least we have our fucking militias. We may have enabled our population to commit mass-violence on any given whim, but at least I know my government will never be usurped by some lunatic who is actually a foreign-puppet. Oh, wait...

Just factually wrong. There is no proliferation of millions of automatic weapons. Automatic weapons have been heavily regulated since 1986.


Based on my understanding of the law, since 1986:
1. No new automatic firearms can be sold in USA to civilians.
2. About ~150k existing automatic firearms that were legally owned at the time can still be bought and sold.
3. Any transfer of one of those automatic firearms is very heavily scrutinized, regulated, and licensed by the Federal government, at the kind of level that even progressives like myself are satisfied.

As a result, if you wanted to purchase an automatic firearm (legally) in USA, you'd need to go through very extensive background checks, and the firearm would cost $5,000 at LEAST.

Also, as far as I understand it, no changes have been made to these laws recently.

Yep, thanks for elaborating.

Like I mentioned earlier, from the audio of the gunshots, it sounds like the firearm was modified to be automatic, or bump fired
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
October 02 2017 11:44 GMT
#177919
On October 02 2017 20:40 ahswtini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2017 20:36 Blazinghand wrote:
On October 02 2017 20:27 ahswtini wrote:
On October 02 2017 19:43 Leporello wrote:
Well, the party of Trump has always had this awesome, intelligent belief that proliferating millions of automatic weapons into random civies would just make things wonderful and safe.

I'm tired of living with this evil. So fucking done with it. They're saying over 50 dead. From 1 geriatric man.

But at least we have our fucking militias. We may have enabled our population to commit mass-violence on any given whim, but at least I know my government will never be usurped by some lunatic who is actually a foreign-puppet. Oh, wait...

Just factually wrong. There is no proliferation of millions of automatic weapons. Automatic weapons have been heavily regulated since 1986.


Based on my understanding of the law, since 1986:
1. No new automatic firearms can be sold in USA to civilians.
2. About ~150k existing automatic firearms that were legally owned at the time can still be bought and sold.
3. Any transfer of one of those automatic firearms is very heavily scrutinized, regulated, and licensed by the Federal government, at the kind of level that even progressives like myself are satisfied.

As a result, if you wanted to purchase an automatic firearm (legally) in USA, you'd need to go through very extensive background checks, and the firearm would cost $5,000 at LEAST.

Also, as far as I understand it, no changes have been made to these laws recently.

Yep, thanks for elaborating.

Like I mentioned earlier, from the audio of the gunshots, it sounds like the firearm was modified to be automatic, or bump fired


Various explanations possible if there are many shots happening in rapid succession:
Bump firing
Legally purchased automatic firearm
Semi-automatic firearm, legally purchased, modified to fire automatic (an SKS could modified to intentionally slamfire pretty easily for ex)
Illegally purchased automatic firearm

None of this is good. Every time I read an update seems like the body count has climbed. Jeez, this is a bad situation.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1924 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 11:53:58
October 02 2017 11:45 GMT
#177920
Yeah yeah, fully automatic weapons are regulated, you have to hit the trigger for those guns, which makes them completely worthless. Those semi automatic assault type weapons can basically not be used for anything....

At this point, arguing about automatic or not automatic is missing the point. There is virtually no reason to sell AR15s to your citizens. What are you afraid about? a Zombie apocalypse? Alien invasion? Or are those for deerhunting?
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