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United States44190 Posts
On August 24 2017 23:58 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2017 23:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2017 23:47 Introvert wrote:
silly Trump hasn't yet learned that, no matter the circumstances, shutdowns and crises are always the Republicans fault!
Also that the voters don't care. that lesson doesn't stick eithrr. I mean they control Congress and the Presidency. At what point to they take responsibility? What you have done here is ignored the facts that lead people to blame the Republicans and insist the Republicans are being blamed because the people blaming believe "crises are always the Republican's fault!" This is called a strawman argument. You have set up the premise that it is always the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts, and by disputing that premise you hope to prove that it is not the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts. But the facts in this case are that the Republicans have both the power and the obligation to fix this. If it doesn't get fixed, it's on them. Not because they're Republicans, because they were elected to fix it. nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them. A clean increase will go through, so it doesn't matter. not sure where this fake concern comes from, the gop have a fear of fighting over any of this.
What are you talking about? The GOP controlled Congress the last time we had a debt ceiling crisis too. And the time before that. You're playing the victim narrative while you're in charge. There's only so long you can insist you're being maligned by mean people.
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nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them.
You're kidding right? Dems in the Majority compromised all the time
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On August 24 2017 23:58 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2017 23:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2017 23:47 Introvert wrote:
silly Trump hasn't yet learned that, no matter the circumstances, shutdowns and crises are always the Republicans fault!
Also that the voters don't care. that lesson doesn't stick eithrr. I mean they control Congress and the Presidency. At what point to they take responsibility? What you have done here is ignored the facts that lead people to blame the Republicans and insist the Republicans are being blamed because the people blaming believe "crises are always the Republican's fault!" This is called a strawman argument. You have set up the premise that it is always the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts, and by disputing that premise you hope to prove that it is not the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts. But the facts in this case are that the Republicans have both the power and the obligation to fix this. If it doesn't get fixed, it's on them. Not because they're Republicans, because they were elected to fix it. nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them. A clean increase will go through, so it doesn't matter. not sure where this fake concern comes from, the gop have a fear of fighting over any of this.
That's like asking the Dems to compromise by splitting the bill even though the Repubs shit on everyone's filet mignon
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On August 25 2017 00:02 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2017 23:58 Introvert wrote:On August 24 2017 23:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2017 23:47 Introvert wrote:
silly Trump hasn't yet learned that, no matter the circumstances, shutdowns and crises are always the Republicans fault!
Also that the voters don't care. that lesson doesn't stick eithrr. I mean they control Congress and the Presidency. At what point to they take responsibility? What you have done here is ignored the facts that lead people to blame the Republicans and insist the Republicans are being blamed because the people blaming believe "crises are always the Republican's fault!" This is called a strawman argument. You have set up the premise that it is always the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts, and by disputing that premise you hope to prove that it is not the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts. But the facts in this case are that the Republicans have both the power and the obligation to fix this. If it doesn't get fixed, it's on them. Not because they're Republicans, because they were elected to fix it. nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them. That's a red herring if i've ever seen one, jeez.
not really, I was making a more general point. this is how it works in the media. only one side is ever expected to make concessions, so only one side is ever blamed for anything.
not to say that the gop isn't terrible, they can't even get rid of Obamacare.
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On August 25 2017 00:05 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 00:02 m4ini wrote:On August 24 2017 23:58 Introvert wrote:On August 24 2017 23:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2017 23:47 Introvert wrote:
silly Trump hasn't yet learned that, no matter the circumstances, shutdowns and crises are always the Republicans fault!
Also that the voters don't care. that lesson doesn't stick eithrr. I mean they control Congress and the Presidency. At what point to they take responsibility? What you have done here is ignored the facts that lead people to blame the Republicans and insist the Republicans are being blamed because the people blaming believe "crises are always the Republican's fault!" This is called a strawman argument. You have set up the premise that it is always the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts, and by disputing that premise you hope to prove that it is not the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts. But the facts in this case are that the Republicans have both the power and the obligation to fix this. If it doesn't get fixed, it's on them. Not because they're Republicans, because they were elected to fix it. nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them. That's a red herring if i've ever seen one, jeez. not really, I was making a more general point. this is how it works in the media. only one side is ever expected to make concessions, so only one side is ever blamed for anything. not to say that the gop isn't terrible, they can't even get rid of Obamacare.
Man, read what you're writing.
Only one side is expected to make concessions, and then you literally spell the word "Obamacare". Do you understand why no one is taking you serious? I don't actually try to be mean, but you're being ridiculous to a level where i wonder if you're actually serious.
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United States44190 Posts
On August 25 2017 00:04 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +
nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them.
You're kidding right? Dems in the Majority compromised all the time
There hasn't been a debt ceiling crisis in which the Dems are in the majority. His entire argument is patently absurd.
1) You always blame the Republicans
2) Therefore you blame the Republicans because they're Republicans, not because of the facts
3) Therefore it doesn't matter what the facts are, you're just mean
4) Therefore the Republicans did nothing wrong
The three times we've blamed the Republicans for debt crises (2011, 2013, 2017) are three times when they've controlled Congress. That's the facts here. The common factor isn't that we always blame the Republicans, it's that the Republicans are the ones who have done this every time.
The question of whether Dems in majority would compromise on a debt crisis hasn't come up because the Dems in majority haven't started a debt crisis to begin with. It's an insanely silly argument he's making. It comes down to "you're not using the facts so I won't either" which would be dumb even if we weren't using the facts but is made twice as dumb because we quite obviously are.
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On August 24 2017 23:58 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2017 23:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2017 23:47 Introvert wrote:
silly Trump hasn't yet learned that, no matter the circumstances, shutdowns and crises are always the Republicans fault!
Also that the voters don't care. that lesson doesn't stick eithrr. I mean they control Congress and the Presidency. At what point to they take responsibility? What you have done here is ignored the facts that lead people to blame the Republicans and insist the Republicans are being blamed because the people blaming believe "crises are always the Republican's fault!" This is called a strawman argument. You have set up the premise that it is always the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts, and by disputing that premise you hope to prove that it is not the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts. But the facts in this case are that the Republicans have both the power and the obligation to fix this. If it doesn't get fixed, it's on them. Not because they're Republicans, because they were elected to fix it. nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them. A clean increase will go through, so it doesn't matter. not sure where this fake concern comes from, the gop have a fear of fighting over any of this.
The thing your (purposefully) missing is that the Dems are not asking for compromise. A clean debt ceiling bill is not a comprise and the Dems will sign it without question.
Only one side keeps trying to poison the bill by adding things the other side cannot accept.
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On August 25 2017 00:05 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 00:02 m4ini wrote:On August 24 2017 23:58 Introvert wrote:On August 24 2017 23:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2017 23:47 Introvert wrote:
silly Trump hasn't yet learned that, no matter the circumstances, shutdowns and crises are always the Republicans fault!
Also that the voters don't care. that lesson doesn't stick eithrr. I mean they control Congress and the Presidency. At what point to they take responsibility? What you have done here is ignored the facts that lead people to blame the Republicans and insist the Republicans are being blamed because the people blaming believe "crises are always the Republican's fault!" This is called a strawman argument. You have set up the premise that it is always the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts, and by disputing that premise you hope to prove that it is not the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts. But the facts in this case are that the Republicans have both the power and the obligation to fix this. If it doesn't get fixed, it's on them. Not because they're Republicans, because they were elected to fix it. nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them. That's a red herring if i've ever seen one, jeez. not really, I was making a more general point. this is how it works in the media. only one side is ever expected to make concessions, so only one side is ever blamed for anything. not to say that the gop isn't terrible, they can't even get rid of Obamacare.
You are delusional. The Russian sanctions had sanctions for Iran attached that the democrats would have preferred to be handled separately. Compromise is possible and the democrats will give ground on some issues. But they are not going to suddenly pass funding for the wall.
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On August 25 2017 00:09 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 00:05 Introvert wrote:On August 25 2017 00:02 m4ini wrote:On August 24 2017 23:58 Introvert wrote:On August 24 2017 23:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2017 23:47 Introvert wrote:
silly Trump hasn't yet learned that, no matter the circumstances, shutdowns and crises are always the Republicans fault!
Also that the voters don't care. that lesson doesn't stick eithrr. I mean they control Congress and the Presidency. At what point to they take responsibility? What you have done here is ignored the facts that lead people to blame the Republicans and insist the Republicans are being blamed because the people blaming believe "crises are always the Republican's fault!" This is called a strawman argument. You have set up the premise that it is always the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts, and by disputing that premise you hope to prove that it is not the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts. But the facts in this case are that the Republicans have both the power and the obligation to fix this. If it doesn't get fixed, it's on them. Not because they're Republicans, because they were elected to fix it. nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them. That's a red herring if i've ever seen one, jeez. not really, I was making a more general point. this is how it works in the media. only one side is ever expected to make concessions, so only one side is ever blamed for anything. not to say that the gop isn't terrible, they can't even get rid of Obamacare. Man, read what you're writing. Only one side is expected to make concessions, and then you literally spell the word "Obamacare". Do you understand why no one is taking you serious? I don't actually try to be mean, but you're being ridiculous to a level where i wonder if you're actually serious.
when the Republicans are in the minority they are always called on to "recognize they are only the minority party and should compromise" and when they are in the majority they should "learn how to govern and make deals." it doesn't matter what the circumstances. one party is allowed to squabble among itself but never called on to make the same trades.
+ Show Spoiler +I understand that this dynamic is really hard to see from any sort of left leaning perspective, so I don't suppose I'll try to fight it with limited time.
This doesn't just apply to the debt ceiling debate.
Trump is misguided but has the right idea. debt ceiling and budgeting times are good times for the nation's attention to be turned back to these issues. Congress never feels the urgency in it's massive spending any other time. but perhaps I view this less seriously because I know the top and they would never let any of this actually happen. it's all noise.
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On August 25 2017 00:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 00:05 Introvert wrote:On August 25 2017 00:02 m4ini wrote:On August 24 2017 23:58 Introvert wrote:On August 24 2017 23:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2017 23:47 Introvert wrote:
silly Trump hasn't yet learned that, no matter the circumstances, shutdowns and crises are always the Republicans fault!
Also that the voters don't care. that lesson doesn't stick eithrr. I mean they control Congress and the Presidency. At what point to they take responsibility? What you have done here is ignored the facts that lead people to blame the Republicans and insist the Republicans are being blamed because the people blaming believe "crises are always the Republican's fault!" This is called a strawman argument. You have set up the premise that it is always the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts, and by disputing that premise you hope to prove that it is not the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts. But the facts in this case are that the Republicans have both the power and the obligation to fix this. If it doesn't get fixed, it's on them. Not because they're Republicans, because they were elected to fix it. nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them. That's a red herring if i've ever seen one, jeez. not really, I was making a more general point. this is how it works in the media. only one side is ever expected to make concessions, so only one side is ever blamed for anything. not to say that the gop isn't terrible, they can't even get rid of Obamacare. You are delusional. The Russian sanctions had sanctions for Iran attached that the democrats would have preferred to be handled separately. Compromise is possible and the democrats will give ground on some issues. But they are not going to suddenly pass funding for the wall.
ok I amend my statement to "major compromises." i mean Iranian sanctions? lol.
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On August 25 2017 00:22 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 00:09 m4ini wrote:On August 25 2017 00:05 Introvert wrote:On August 25 2017 00:02 m4ini wrote:On August 24 2017 23:58 Introvert wrote:On August 24 2017 23:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2017 23:47 Introvert wrote:
silly Trump hasn't yet learned that, no matter the circumstances, shutdowns and crises are always the Republicans fault!
Also that the voters don't care. that lesson doesn't stick eithrr. I mean they control Congress and the Presidency. At what point to they take responsibility? What you have done here is ignored the facts that lead people to blame the Republicans and insist the Republicans are being blamed because the people blaming believe "crises are always the Republican's fault!" This is called a strawman argument. You have set up the premise that it is always the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts, and by disputing that premise you hope to prove that it is not the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts. But the facts in this case are that the Republicans have both the power and the obligation to fix this. If it doesn't get fixed, it's on them. Not because they're Republicans, because they were elected to fix it. nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them. That's a red herring if i've ever seen one, jeez. not really, I was making a more general point. this is how it works in the media. only one side is ever expected to make concessions, so only one side is ever blamed for anything. not to say that the gop isn't terrible, they can't even get rid of Obamacare. Man, read what you're writing. Only one side is expected to make concessions, and then you literally spell the word "Obamacare". Do you understand why no one is taking you serious? I don't actually try to be mean, but you're being ridiculous to a level where i wonder if you're actually serious. when the Republicans are in the minority they are always called on to "recognize they are only the minority party and should compromise" and when they are in the majority they should "learn how to govern and make deals." it doesn't matter what the circumstances. one party is allowed to squabble among itself but never called on to make the same trades.
Again. Obamacare completely defeats your argument.
This doesn't just apply to the debt ceiling debate.
Trump is misguided but has the right idea. debt ceiling and budgeting times are good times for the nation's attention to be turned back to these issues. Congress never feels the urgency in it's massive spending any other time. but perhaps I view this less seriously because I know the top and they would never let any of this actually happen. it's all noise.
If "blackmailing" is the right idea, i hope that you never get to any sort of power.
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On August 25 2017 00:22 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 00:09 m4ini wrote:On August 25 2017 00:05 Introvert wrote:On August 25 2017 00:02 m4ini wrote:On August 24 2017 23:58 Introvert wrote:On August 24 2017 23:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2017 23:47 Introvert wrote:
silly Trump hasn't yet learned that, no matter the circumstances, shutdowns and crises are always the Republicans fault!
Also that the voters don't care. that lesson doesn't stick eithrr. I mean they control Congress and the Presidency. At what point to they take responsibility? What you have done here is ignored the facts that lead people to blame the Republicans and insist the Republicans are being blamed because the people blaming believe "crises are always the Republican's fault!" This is called a strawman argument. You have set up the premise that it is always the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts, and by disputing that premise you hope to prove that it is not the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts. But the facts in this case are that the Republicans have both the power and the obligation to fix this. If it doesn't get fixed, it's on them. Not because they're Republicans, because they were elected to fix it. nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them. That's a red herring if i've ever seen one, jeez. not really, I was making a more general point. this is how it works in the media. only one side is ever expected to make concessions, so only one side is ever blamed for anything. not to say that the gop isn't terrible, they can't even get rid of Obamacare. Man, read what you're writing. Only one side is expected to make concessions, and then you literally spell the word "Obamacare". Do you understand why no one is taking you serious? I don't actually try to be mean, but you're being ridiculous to a level where i wonder if you're actually serious. when the Republicans are in the minority they are always called on to "recognize they are only the minority party and should compromise" and when they are in the majority they should "learn how to govern and make deals." it doesn't matter what the circumstances. one party is allowed to squabble among itself but never called on to make the same trades. + Show Spoiler +I understand that this dynamic is really hard to see from any sort of left leaning perspective, so I don't suppose I'll try to fight it with limited time. This doesn't just apply to the debt ceiling debate. Trump is misguided but has the right idea. debt ceiling and budgeting times are good times for the nation's attention to be turned back to these issues. Congress never feels the urgency in it's massive spending any other time. but perhaps I view this less seriously because I know the top and they would never let any of this actually happen. it's all noise.
You mean like they didn't let it happen before? Oh wait no, there has been a shutdown over this shit before.
Again, a clean bill is not a compromise. Its the default position.
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On August 25 2017 00:24 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 00:21 Plansix wrote:On August 25 2017 00:05 Introvert wrote:On August 25 2017 00:02 m4ini wrote:On August 24 2017 23:58 Introvert wrote:On August 24 2017 23:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2017 23:47 Introvert wrote:
silly Trump hasn't yet learned that, no matter the circumstances, shutdowns and crises are always the Republicans fault!
Also that the voters don't care. that lesson doesn't stick eithrr. I mean they control Congress and the Presidency. At what point to they take responsibility? What you have done here is ignored the facts that lead people to blame the Republicans and insist the Republicans are being blamed because the people blaming believe "crises are always the Republican's fault!" This is called a strawman argument. You have set up the premise that it is always the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts, and by disputing that premise you hope to prove that it is not the fault of the Republicans, regardless of the facts. But the facts in this case are that the Republicans have both the power and the obligation to fix this. If it doesn't get fixed, it's on them. Not because they're Republicans, because they were elected to fix it. nah when the gop is the minority they are expected to compromise (i.e. give up completely) and when they are in the majority they are also expected to compromise on almost everything. that's how it works. Democrats control nothing but I don't hear anyone asking that pressure be put on them. That's a red herring if i've ever seen one, jeez. not really, I was making a more general point. this is how it works in the media. only one side is ever expected to make concessions, so only one side is ever blamed for anything. not to say that the gop isn't terrible, they can't even get rid of Obamacare. You are delusional. The Russian sanctions had sanctions for Iran attached that the democrats would have preferred to be handled separately. Compromise is possible and the democrats will give ground on some issues. But they are not going to suddenly pass funding for the wall. ok I amend my statement to "major compromises." i mean Iranian sanctions? lol.
Define a major compromise. Name a few. Because the conservatives have always had unrealistic goals, like turning Medicaid into al block grant.
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When Dems controlled Congress and the White House, they were expected to and did pass major legislation. Same for the Repubs. It's fair.
In a normal country, Repubs would now be expected to resign or be voted out of office for their failure. But ours is a dysfunctional country.
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So.. The german magazine "Stern" published their next cover..
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://www.vladtv.com/images/size_fs/video_image-467982.jpg) (Neonazis KKK, racism: how donald trump fuels hate in america)
In case it's not entirely obvious, "Mein Kampf" = "my fight", "Sein Kampf" = "his fight".
edit: oopsie, bit bigger than i thought, spoilered
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The very concept that the debt ceiling is the time to negotiate the budget shows just how far out the conservative’s ideas are. What they want is so far removed from what is politically possible, the only way they can even think of bringing the Democrats to the table is through a threat of full default by the US. And then they blame the Democrats for calling their bluff.
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Breibart going anti-Jared.
Meetings between the Palestinian Authority and American delegates led by President Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner are “a waste of time,” Dr. Wasel Abu Yousef, director of the Palestinian Liberation Front and member of the Palestinian Liberation Organization’s (PLO) Executive Committee, told Breitbart Jerusalem.
“The meeting planned for Thursday with government delegates who are coming to advance the political process is just another meeting in an effort to buy time,” claimed Yousef. “It’s a waste of time and we aren’t seeing any declaration or clear statements from the American delegation regarding Palestinian demands.”
Kushner is currently leading a delegation to the Middle East that includes Jason Greenblatt, envoy for international negotiations, and deputy national security adviser Dina Powell. The three are in Cairo on Wednesday and are due in Israel on Thursday for meetings with Israeli and Palestinian leaders.
www.breitbart.com
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On August 25 2017 00:40 m4ini wrote:So.. The german magazine "Stern" published their next cover.. + Show Spoiler +(Neonazis KKK, racism: how donald trump fuels hate in america) In case it's not entirely obvious, "Mein Kampf" = "my fight", "Sein Kampf" = "his fight". edit: oopsie, bit bigger than i thought, spoilered
I wonder if trump will try to sue for libel.
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On August 25 2017 01:03 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2017 00:40 m4ini wrote:So.. The german magazine "Stern" published their next cover.. + Show Spoiler +(Neonazis KKK, racism: how donald trump fuels hate in america) In case it's not entirely obvious, "Mein Kampf" = "my fight", "Sein Kampf" = "his fight". edit: oopsie, bit bigger than i thought, spoilered I wonder if trump will try to sue for libel.
Ireland:
+ Show Spoiler +
And he can sue, won't get him far though. It might be distasteful, but not illegal.
edit: partially because newspapers aren't dumb, this isn't the first "dance" for the Stern, and for example in case of the irish paper, they can say that they'd be misrepresented - there's no question mark. So it's not "Why not?" but "Why not", as in explaining why you shouldn't do it.
Stern is a pretty big german magazine, pretty sure they know the line they can walk. Satire springs to mind.
Auch Satire darf sich weiter aus dem Fenster herauslehnen, solange sie auf eine kritische Auseinandersetzung mit der Sache abzielt und nicht auf die Herabwürdigung der Person.
This is ridiculous to translate, but here goes.
"Satire, too, can lean further out of the window as long as it is aimed at a critical examination of the matter and not at the degradation of the person."
.. ish. It's an attack on his political views etc - this is fair game under the german press laws.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://www.welt.de/img/kultur/medien/mobile167967403/7157939787-coriginal-w1200/Cover-des-Magazins-Village-Feb-2017-F.jpg)
