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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 28 2017 15:09 GMT
#164741
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18845 Posts
July 28 2017 15:11 GMT
#164742
lol, that is without a doubt the dumbest thing Huckabee has ever said, and boy is that a high bar to make.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-28 15:13:17
July 28 2017 15:12 GMT
#164743
A candidate for a top position at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) pulled his name from consideration for the job on Thursday after President Trump's announcement that transgender Americans would be banned from serving in the armed forces "in any capacity."

John Fluharty, a former executive director of the Delaware Republican party, told the agency in an email that he was no longer seeking the position of assistant secretary of partnership and engagement after Trump's announcement on Twitter Wednesday morning.

Fluharty wrote in the email, first obtained by Politico, that Trump's surprise decision to ban all transgender troops from serving in the armed forces "runs counter to my deeply held beliefs."

"As I mentioned in our conversation, I am a strong advocate for diversity, both in the Republican Party and in government," Fluharty wrote. "The President's announcement this morning - that he will ban all of those who identify as transgender from military service - runs counter to my deeply held beliefs, and it would be impossible for me to commit to serving the Administration knowing that I would be working against those values."

Fluharty confirmed the email in a message to The Hill, and added that the agency handled his withdrawal in a "respectful and professional" manner.

"I am grateful for having been asked to interview," Fluharty told The Hill, "and DHS handled my response in a respectful and professional manner."

In an email to Politico, the Department of Homeland Security confirmed Fluharty's decision and stated that none of the other candidates being considered had notified the agency that they were dropping out of consideration.

"He was one of many candidates being considered and he withdrew from consideration," DHS spokesman David Lapan said in an email.

"We're not aware of anyone else who withdrew for that reason."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22065 Posts
July 28 2017 15:18 GMT
#164744
On July 29 2017 00:11 farvacola wrote:
lol, that is without a doubt the dumbest thing Huckabee has ever said, and boy is that a high bar to make.

It won't work in America because the entire system is dysfunctional but on its own its not necessarily a bad thing.

In the Netherlands our 'Senate" is elected by our 'State' government, who themselves are elected by the people and it works.

The problem in the US is not the system (tho that could certainly use radical change to get rid of the 2 party system), its the voters who keep electing these clowns.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 28 2017 15:22 GMT
#164745
On July 29 2017 00:18 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2017 00:11 farvacola wrote:
lol, that is without a doubt the dumbest thing Huckabee has ever said, and boy is that a high bar to make.

It won't work in America because the entire system is dysfunctional but on its own its not necessarily a bad thing.

In the Netherlands our 'Senate" is elected by our 'State' government, who themselves are elected by the people and it works.

The problem in the US is not the system (tho that could certainly use radical change to get rid of the 2 party system), its the voters who keep electing these clowns.


Don't be mistaken in thinking that Huckabee is that smart or that empathetic he wants to repeal the Amendment when a Neoconservative is in power to select and ram through legislation.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18845 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-28 15:27:29
July 28 2017 15:26 GMT
#164746
On July 29 2017 00:18 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2017 00:11 farvacola wrote:
lol, that is without a doubt the dumbest thing Huckabee has ever said, and boy is that a high bar to make.

It won't work in America because the entire system is dysfunctional but on its own its not necessarily a bad thing.

In the Netherlands our 'Senate" is elected by our 'State' government, who themselves are elected by the people and it works.

The problem in the US is not the system (tho that could certainly use radical change to get rid of the 2 party system), its the voters who keep electing these clowns.

It's too simplistic to assert that culpability lie with the people and not the system; there are problems throughout. For example and relevant to Huckabee's stupid tweet, state legislatures in states that have adopted term limits have a severe problem with special interest capture because the only people legally allowed to continue policy work at the state capitol are unelected lobbyists. This sort of capture is readily evident in here in Michigan (one look at our no-fault auto insurance system, limits on medical malpractice recovery, and overall terrible municipal system and it's clear who's writing the laws) and it isn't hard to observe it elsewhere in the US from coast to coast.

Now yes, you'd be right to indicate that uninformed and easily influenced voters played a prominent role in all this, but at the end of the day, changing the nature of voters may need to take a backseat to more feasible systemic reforms coupled with successful attempts at playing an admittedly shitty and broken political game.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
July 28 2017 15:32 GMT
#164747
On July 29 2017 00:11 farvacola wrote:
lol, that is without a doubt the dumbest thing Huckabee has ever said, and boy is that a high bar to make.


He said in a debate that he worked in Arkansas when the Clintons were there and he "lived to tell about it."
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 28 2017 15:35 GMT
#164748
On July 29 2017 00:18 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2017 00:11 farvacola wrote:
lol, that is without a doubt the dumbest thing Huckabee has ever said, and boy is that a high bar to make.

It won't work in America because the entire system is dysfunctional but on its own its not necessarily a bad thing.

In the Netherlands our 'Senate" is elected by our 'State' government, who themselves are elected by the people and it works.

The problem in the US is not the system (tho that could certainly use radical change to get rid of the 2 party system), its the voters who keep electing these clowns.

Yeah, but in the Netherlands your Senate can only approve or deny legislature.

As I understand, in the United States, Congress can write and pass a Bill, the Senate looks at it and says "I don't like this, let me burn this and start from scratch" then votes on it, and then the President looks at it and says "I hate you all".
Average means I'm better than half of you.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9023 Posts
July 28 2017 15:36 GMT
#164749
On July 29 2017 00:03 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2017 23:51 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 28 2017 23:48 Introvert wrote:
McCain and Murkowski both voted to repeal many, many times, including in 2015. They deserve no praise.

McCain wasn't dying then and Murkowski more than likely didn't realize just how much her state depended on the ACA and how badly the GOP bill would screw her over.

Or the completely obvious answer of 'party before country' and knowing that their votes didn't matter.

Same shit happened last night, of the 49 who voted in favor many would have been praying the 3 no's happened instead of just having the guts to come out and say No themselves.

That is how you get into these garbage situations, people faking their positions and trying to play both sides just to keep their seat rather then actually doing their job and governing.

Wait. We don't talk about the obvious. That would be too obvious.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9023 Posts
July 28 2017 15:39 GMT
#164750
NK chucked a ballistic missile recently today. Within the past hour. What's trump gonna do?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18845 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-28 15:43:48
July 28 2017 15:39 GMT
#164751
On July 29 2017 00:35 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2017 00:18 Gorsameth wrote:
On July 29 2017 00:11 farvacola wrote:
lol, that is without a doubt the dumbest thing Huckabee has ever said, and boy is that a high bar to make.

It won't work in America because the entire system is dysfunctional but on its own its not necessarily a bad thing.

In the Netherlands our 'Senate" is elected by our 'State' government, who themselves are elected by the people and it works.

The problem in the US is not the system (tho that could certainly use radical change to get rid of the 2 party system), its the voters who keep electing these clowns.

Yeah, but in the Netherlands your Senate can only approve or deny legislature.

As I understand, in the United States, Congress can write and pass a Bill, the Senate looks at it and says "I don't like this, let me burn this and start from scratch" then votes on it, and then the President looks at it and says "I hate you all".

In order for a bill to go before the president for signing or veto, it needs to be approved by both chambers, either through both passing the same version of a bill or through a conference committee containing both senators and representatives. There are a few exceptions, like joint committees on taxes and the budget reconciliation process.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43505 Posts
July 28 2017 15:42 GMT
#164752
So sad for McConnell. Imagine if the one thing you wanted to do in your life, more than anything else, was to take healthcare from upwards of twenty million Americans. That was all you needed to be truly happy. And you've been trying for years without success. Then, for the last six months, the promise of finally getting it was dangled in front of you and each morning you think to yourself "maybe today, maybe today is the day I get to close all the medicare funded rural hospitals". Last night happens and he's seesawing between "OMG it's finally happening" and "no Mitch, you've been hurt before, don't get your hopes up" but he just can't help himself, they have a pre-vote before the vote and everyone indicates how they plan to vote and he just knows his dream is going to come true. And then John 'Rambo' 'Call me Maverick' McCain just rips it all from him and micdrops. And as all his hopes are shattered and the tears form in his eyes the cameras all zoom in on his face to immortalize his loss. Mitch#2017 Never4get.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9023 Posts
July 28 2017 15:44 GMT
#164753
On July 29 2017 00:42 KwarK wrote:
So sad for McConnell. Imagine if the one thing you wanted to do in your life, more than anything else, was to take healthcare from upwards of twenty million Americans. That was all you needed to be truly happy. And you've been trying for years without success. Then, for the last six months, the promise of finally getting it was dangled in front of you and each morning you think to yourself "maybe today, maybe today is the day I get to close all the medicare funded rural hospitals". Last night happens and he's seesawing between "OMG it's finally happening" and "no Mitch, you've been hurt before, don't get your hopes up" but he just can't help himself, they have a pre-vote before the vote and everyone indicates how they plan to vote and he just knows his dream is going to come true. And then John 'Rambo' 'Call me Maverick' McCain just rips it all from him and micdrops. And as all his hopes are shattered and the tears form in his eyes the cameras all zoom in on his face to immortalize his loss. Mitch#2017 Never4get.

The obituary to end all obituaries. I almost choked. On laughter.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 28 2017 15:45 GMT
#164754
On July 29 2017 00:39 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2017 00:35 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 29 2017 00:18 Gorsameth wrote:
On July 29 2017 00:11 farvacola wrote:
lol, that is without a doubt the dumbest thing Huckabee has ever said, and boy is that a high bar to make.

It won't work in America because the entire system is dysfunctional but on its own its not necessarily a bad thing.

In the Netherlands our 'Senate" is elected by our 'State' government, who themselves are elected by the people and it works.

The problem in the US is not the system (tho that could certainly use radical change to get rid of the 2 party system), its the voters who keep electing these clowns.

Yeah, but in the Netherlands your Senate can only approve or deny legislature.

As I understand, in the United States, Congress can write and pass a Bill, the Senate looks at it and says "I don't like this, let me burn this and start from scratch" then votes on it, and then the President looks at it and says "I hate you all".

In order for a bill to go before the president for signing or veto, it needs to be approved by both chambers through a conference committee containing both senators and representatives. There are a few exceptions, like joint committees on taxes and the reconciliation process.

Good to know. Makes a little more sense at least, though it seems that would lead to a lot of punting of responsibility.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18845 Posts
July 28 2017 15:47 GMT
#164755
Yep, it's entirely fair to characterize the whole thing as mostly punting lol
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 28 2017 15:50 GMT
#164756
In Brentwood our community fears two things,” said Carlos Piovanetti as he thumbed through a bulging legal dossier strewn out on his desk. “There’s an immense fear of violent crime, and a tremendous fear of the government, of being picked up and deported.”

This small hamlet on Long Island, an hour’s drive from New York City, has recently found itself under the national spotlight following a series of gruesome local murders linked to the now notorious MS-13 gang. On Friday, Donald Trump will visit Brentwood, which has for decades attracted Hispanic migrants, including thousands from El Salvador. Here, he will deliver a speech in which he is expected to call for greater resources to crackdown on undocumented immigrants after claiming earlier in the week that his administration is “liberating” American cities from gang violence.

“We are throwing MS-13 the hell out of here so fast,” the president said in Ohio on Tuesday. “And, well, I will just tell you this, we’re not doing it in a politically correct fashion.”

The gang has become the symbolic focal point of Trump’s harsh immigration regime. But while the violence is recognised as a scourge on the community, some in Brentwood question the administration’s approach to tackling the issue and point to Trump’s ignorance of the group’s origins and history.

Piovanetti, the managing attorney for the nonprofit Immigration Legal Services of Long Island, believed the legal dossier laid out on his desk, and the “garbage evidence” it contained, proved part of the point.

It related to the case of one 18-year-old undocumented El Salvadoran, who did not want to be named or interviewed, picked up as part of Operation Matador, an ongoing gang and immigration enforcement action headed by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in partnership with local police. The teenager, who according to his attorneys was the drummer in a local church band and a hardworking high school student, had been arrested by local officers in April on a minor misdemeanour for failing to state his date of birth correctly. It was his first alleged criminal offense but he was apprehended by immigration authorities nonetheless, and was later labelled an MS-13 gang member.

In a memo to court seen by the Guardian, DHS claimed the boy had been observed in March last year “flashing an MS-13 hand sign” and had been seen on other occasions with other “confirmed MS-13 members” and had worn “clothing and accessories” indicative of MS-13. But the memo cited no sworn or documentary evidence for the claims and did not attribute a source for the allegations. The teenager was granted bail despite the memo’s request he be detained until a full trial.

“How can they be presenting this garbage to a judge?” Piovanetti said. “It just breeds more distrust. I know families here who are too afraid to go to the supermarket out of fear of being detained.” The Guardian is aware of at least one more memo used in a similar case, citing unsourced non-criminal allegations of gang affiliation against young undocumented El Salvadorans arrested around Brentwood.

Suffolk County Police Department, the local agency who supplied DHS with the evidence of alleged gang ties, has been contacted for comment on the memo.

Such a strategy, said Piovanetti, who has practised immigration law in New York for decades, is unprecedented and indicative of the sweeping new powers DHS enjoys under the Trump administration.

But the operation has also seen some success.

At a White House press conference on Thursday, surrounded by images of MS-13 gang tattoos, acting Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) director Thomas Homan told reporters that Operation Matador had “netted” over 100 gang members and affiliates since it began in May. Two juveniles apprehended in the operation had been implicated in a brutal MS-13 related quadruple homicide earlier in the year. The effort has also led to another gang member admitting involvement in the horrific murders of two teenage girls from Brentwood High School in September last year. Earlier this month, 17 MS-13 members were indicted on federal charges over their alleged role in a number of recent killings (local police attribute 27 murders to the gang since 2013).

There is little doubt that Trump’s strategy on MS-13 also serves up red meat to his base around the US. The president has frequently pointed to a declared crackdown on the organisation as evidence of an election promise to clamp down on criminal migrants, despite the fact that immigration arrests of those with no criminal history are surging around the US.

Critics point out the president has exhibited little to no grasp of the gang’s complex history, which is tangled in both US foreign and domestic policy. Instead, Trump has sought, incorrectly, to place blame on the previous administration for the recent spate of violence.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15732 Posts
July 28 2017 15:53 GMT
#164757
On July 29 2017 00:42 KwarK wrote:
So sad for McConnell. Imagine if the one thing you wanted to do in your life, more than anything else, was to take healthcare from upwards of twenty million Americans. That was all you needed to be truly happy. And you've been trying for years without success. Then, for the last six months, the promise of finally getting it was dangled in front of you and each morning you think to yourself "maybe today, maybe today is the day I get to close all the medicare funded rural hospitals". Last night happens and he's seesawing between "OMG it's finally happening" and "no Mitch, you've been hurt before, don't get your hopes up" but he just can't help himself, they have a pre-vote before the vote and everyone indicates how they plan to vote and he just knows his dream is going to come true. And then John 'Rambo' 'Call me Maverick' McCain just rips it all from him and micdrops. And as all his hopes are shattered and the tears form in his eyes the cameras all zoom in on his face to immortalize his loss. Mitch#2017 Never4get.


Beautiful. I've got a bit of bounce in my step today, realizing Mitch is experiencing negative emotions.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
July 28 2017 16:12 GMT
#164758


Seems like he wants the senate filibuster nuked. Not really sure how that would help with a 49-51 vote, but hey, no one ever accuses him of being good with logic.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
July 28 2017 16:15 GMT
#164759
On July 29 2017 00:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2017 00:39 farvacola wrote:
On July 29 2017 00:35 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 29 2017 00:18 Gorsameth wrote:
On July 29 2017 00:11 farvacola wrote:
lol, that is without a doubt the dumbest thing Huckabee has ever said, and boy is that a high bar to make.

It won't work in America because the entire system is dysfunctional but on its own its not necessarily a bad thing.

In the Netherlands our 'Senate" is elected by our 'State' government, who themselves are elected by the people and it works.

The problem in the US is not the system (tho that could certainly use radical change to get rid of the 2 party system), its the voters who keep electing these clowns.

Yeah, but in the Netherlands your Senate can only approve or deny legislature.

As I understand, in the United States, Congress can write and pass a Bill, the Senate looks at it and says "I don't like this, let me burn this and start from scratch" then votes on it, and then the President looks at it and says "I hate you all".

In order for a bill to go before the president for signing or veto, it needs to be approved by both chambers through a conference committee containing both senators and representatives. There are a few exceptions, like joint committees on taxes and the reconciliation process.

Good to know. Makes a little more sense at least, though it seems that would lead to a lot of punting of responsibility.

it does. and a lot of shady stuff used to happen (and probably still does happen) during the process of reconciling the different versions of bills.
not that voters are that good at actually holding people responsible in any event. (nor is it clear that the attempts to hold people responsible actually yield better system outcomes)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15732 Posts
July 28 2017 16:16 GMT
#164760
I gotta admit: Manchin proved his worth here. I've ragged on him in excess but he did what needed to be done.
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