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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On July 29 2017 02:42 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 02:36 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:30 TheTenthDoc wrote:If you want to see how drugs would operate without FDA oversight from an efficacy and contents/good manufacturing practices perspective, just look at the herbal remedies/supplements market. It's utter chaos and the best don't "rise to the top." 4/5 tested products didn't contain any of the herbs on their labels and they're mostly just filler.You just end up playing eternal catch-up with these assholes, and the same thing would happen with drugs (and does in other countries). I think there should be serious civil/criminal penalties for claimig to sell something that's not in the bottle. I don't care if you want to sell herbs or homeopathy with no effect but it better be what you say it is. That alone would probably lead to more progress in non-pharmaceutical supplementation than anything elsse. Homeopathy doesn't lie. They put on the bottle that it's X diluted a billion times in water. That's fair. The problem isn't with what they claim is in the bottle. It's with what they claim that does... the same for most other snake oils. It's far too easy to verify that what is in the bottle is what they wrote on the outside. It's only slightly harder to verify that tap water does not in fact cure cancer, yet thousands of people believe it does because it's called homeopathy.
Well, sometimes you can't verify homeopathy products because there aren't instruments sensitive enough to determine if they gave you a normal bottle of water or water with nickel diluted a billion times (because we can't really tell if there are something like 100 nickel atoms in a liter of water as far as I know).
But even when we can test it, nobody does before it goes to market and you obviously can't do it at home. In that kind of scenario, the market is basically guaranteed to have a bunch of fakes-why would you bother with the active ingredient from a free market perspective and the consequences are just losing a shell company?
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Well, it won't kill anyone by poisoning them, but on the other hand it could kill them with stupidity if they decide All-Natural Youth Elixir Made with 100% Organic Toad Feces is all they need to fight their coronary artery disease.
personally i could care less what particular thing is in a homeopathic product, whatever PPM is probably less total exposure than i get from breathing on a daily basis.
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On July 29 2017 02:42 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 02:36 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:30 TheTenthDoc wrote:If you want to see how drugs would operate without FDA oversight from an efficacy and contents/good manufacturing practices perspective, just look at the herbal remedies/supplements market. It's utter chaos and the best don't "rise to the top." 4/5 tested products didn't contain any of the herbs on their labels and they're mostly just filler.You just end up playing eternal catch-up with these assholes, and the same thing would happen with drugs (and does in other countries). I think there should be serious civil/criminal penalties for claimig to sell something that's not in the bottle. I don't care if you want to sell herbs or homeopathy with no effect but it better be what you say it is. That alone would probably lead to more progress in non-pharmaceutical supplementation than anything elsse. Homeopathy doesn't lie. They put on the bottle that it's X diluted a billion times in water. That's fair. The problem isn't with what they claim is in the bottle. It's with what they claim that does... the same for most other snake oils. It's far too easy to verify that what is in the bottle is what they wrote on the outside. It's only slightly harder to verify that tap water does not in fact cure cancer, yet thousands of people believe it does because it's called homeopathy.
did you read the linked article showing that they often DO lie? and that what's in the bottle isn't what they claim is ni the bottle?
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On July 29 2017 02:33 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 01:55 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
You just said terminate IP/Patent. I'm inclined to ignore every statement you make moving forward. And you obviously have no idea what the FDA is put in place to actually do. History was not your best subject, was it? Can't terminate IP?
IP. As in Intellectual Property. If he meant something else, my mistake. But I don't think he did. And no, you cannot terminate Intellectual Property. If I design something that revolutionizes X industry, then I want my due. If I patent something and it is used overseas without my express permission or without payment in any shape or form, I want the right to litigate. If you take away the right of someone to protect their ideas and inventions, then you have anarchy and the larger corporations will feast on the smaller ones. Why do you think we have so many mergers and acquisitions? Buying out the competition is the smart thing to do. But if you steal the IP, then you deserve to be in court forever. Frivolous lawsuits should be stopped, if that's what you want to go with. Don't think about touching IP/Patent laws.
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On July 29 2017 02:47 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 02:42 Acrofales wrote:On July 29 2017 02:36 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:30 TheTenthDoc wrote:If you want to see how drugs would operate without FDA oversight from an efficacy and contents/good manufacturing practices perspective, just look at the herbal remedies/supplements market. It's utter chaos and the best don't "rise to the top." 4/5 tested products didn't contain any of the herbs on their labels and they're mostly just filler.You just end up playing eternal catch-up with these assholes, and the same thing would happen with drugs (and does in other countries). I think there should be serious civil/criminal penalties for claimig to sell something that's not in the bottle. I don't care if you want to sell herbs or homeopathy with no effect but it better be what you say it is. That alone would probably lead to more progress in non-pharmaceutical supplementation than anything elsse. Homeopathy doesn't lie. They put on the bottle that it's X diluted a billion times in water. That's fair. The problem isn't with what they claim is in the bottle. It's with what they claim that does... the same for most other snake oils. It's far too easy to verify that what is in the bottle is what they wrote on the outside. It's only slightly harder to verify that tap water does not in fact cure cancer, yet thousands of people believe it does because it's called homeopathy. Well, sometimes you can't verify homeopathy products because there aren't instruments sensitive enough to determine if they gave you a normal bottle of water or water with nickel diluted a billion times (because we can't really tell if there are something like 100 nickel atoms in a liter of water as far as I know). But even when we can test it, nobody does before it goes to market and you obviously can't do it at home. In that kind of scenario, the market is basically guaranteed to have a bunch of fakes-why would you bother with the active ingredient from a free market perspective and the consequences are just losing a shell company?
Oh don't worry. It doesn't matter one bit whether or not they diluted something a billion times in the tap water before sticking it in a bottle with a fancy label and sell it as a "homeopathic cure".
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On July 28 2017 19:08 Gorsameth wrote:
Some of the Republicans here can say they don't like the party and want something better but here we are, after another night of tension and another pure shit bill that would have made nothing better with 49 Republicans voting in favor.
This is the party you chose to be a part of.
The two party system works against both sides FYI. Next time you don't want to be called a Debbie Wassermann Schultz aficionado or I'm With Her (and her identity politics) Clinton supporter, remember that conservatives don't have much of a choice either. It should be an obvious conclusion in fairness.
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United States43989 Posts
On July 29 2017 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
Well, it won't kill anyone by poisoning them, but on the other hand it could kill them with stupidity if they decide All-Natural Youth Elixir Made with 100% Organic Toad Feces is all they need to fight their coronary artery disease.
personally i could care less what particular thing is in a homeopathic product, whatever PPM is probably less total exposure than i get from breathing on a daily basis.
The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine".
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On July 29 2017 02:50 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 02:42 Acrofales wrote:On July 29 2017 02:36 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:30 TheTenthDoc wrote:If you want to see how drugs would operate without FDA oversight from an efficacy and contents/good manufacturing practices perspective, just look at the herbal remedies/supplements market. It's utter chaos and the best don't "rise to the top." 4/5 tested products didn't contain any of the herbs on their labels and they're mostly just filler.You just end up playing eternal catch-up with these assholes, and the same thing would happen with drugs (and does in other countries). I think there should be serious civil/criminal penalties for claimig to sell something that's not in the bottle. I don't care if you want to sell herbs or homeopathy with no effect but it better be what you say it is. That alone would probably lead to more progress in non-pharmaceutical supplementation than anything elsse. Homeopathy doesn't lie. They put on the bottle that it's X diluted a billion times in water. That's fair. The problem isn't with what they claim is in the bottle. It's with what they claim that does... the same for most other snake oils. It's far too easy to verify that what is in the bottle is what they wrote on the outside. It's only slightly harder to verify that tap water does not in fact cure cancer, yet thousands of people believe it does because it's called homeopathy. did you read the linked article showing that they often DO lie? and that what's in the bottle isn't what they claim is ni the bottle?
No, I was mostly responding to IgnE's broader claim. But isn't that already illegal? It is here in Europe. If you say your yoghurt contains strawberries it better fucking contain strawberries (and if you say it has at leat 10% strawberries, it had better have at least 10% strawberries). And food supplements fall under the same legislation. The EU actually does a lot of work in consumer protection and regularly dumps huge fines on companies that don't comply with exactly this type of thing.
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On July 29 2017 02:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 02:36 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:30 TheTenthDoc wrote:If you want to see how drugs would operate without FDA oversight from an efficacy and contents/good manufacturing practices perspective, just look at the herbal remedies/supplements market. It's utter chaos and the best don't "rise to the top." 4/5 tested products didn't contain any of the herbs on their labels and they're mostly just filler.You just end up playing eternal catch-up with these assholes, and the same thing would happen with drugs (and does in other countries). I think there should be serious civil/criminal penalties for claimig to sell something that's not in the bottle. I don't care if you want to sell herbs or homeopathy with no effect but it better be what you say it is. That alone would probably lead to more progress in non-pharmaceutical supplementation than anything elsse. There is a whole judicial economy that arises with route. It places the burden on individuals to collect evidence and prove the suppliant is a fraud. Or the local government has to bring criminal charges, often across state lines. It is snake oil 2.0, but this time they make sure it won’t kill anyone first.
ok well now they can do whatever they want with no penalty. you always chime in with these pre-fabricated points and then add some silly line at the end. sorry its not snake oil 2.0 if you move from "anything goes" to "if you get caught claiming to sell something that you arent actually selling then you go to jail and lose all your assets."
@acrofales
homeopathy sells placebo (a powerful effect) as far as im concerned. is it dumb? yes. but trying toregulate placebo is a misguided venture imo.
im talking about claiming to sell herbal extract X or fish oil and in reality your pill is sawdust and rancid leftover press. that is criminally fraudulent behavior. if someone wants to buy gingko baloba or whatever they should be able to enter a transparent market for it regardless of its efficacy.
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On July 29 2017 02:59 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 02:50 zlefin wrote:On July 29 2017 02:42 Acrofales wrote:On July 29 2017 02:36 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:30 TheTenthDoc wrote:If you want to see how drugs would operate without FDA oversight from an efficacy and contents/good manufacturing practices perspective, just look at the herbal remedies/supplements market. It's utter chaos and the best don't "rise to the top." 4/5 tested products didn't contain any of the herbs on their labels and they're mostly just filler.You just end up playing eternal catch-up with these assholes, and the same thing would happen with drugs (and does in other countries). I think there should be serious civil/criminal penalties for claimig to sell something that's not in the bottle. I don't care if you want to sell herbs or homeopathy with no effect but it better be what you say it is. That alone would probably lead to more progress in non-pharmaceutical supplementation than anything elsse. Homeopathy doesn't lie. They put on the bottle that it's X diluted a billion times in water. That's fair. The problem isn't with what they claim is in the bottle. It's with what they claim that does... the same for most other snake oils. It's far too easy to verify that what is in the bottle is what they wrote on the outside. It's only slightly harder to verify that tap water does not in fact cure cancer, yet thousands of people believe it does because it's called homeopathy. did you read the linked article showing that they often DO lie? and that what's in the bottle isn't what they claim is ni the bottle? No, I was mostly responding to IgnE's broader claim. But isn't that already illegal? It is here in Europe. If you say your yoghurt contains strawberries it better fucking contain strawberries (and if you say it has at leat 10% strawberries, it had better have at least 10% strawberries). And food supplements fall under the same legislation. The EU actually does a lot of work in consumer protection and regularly dumps huge fines on companies that don't comply with exactly this type of thing.
they lie here dude. thats what im talking about.
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On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
Well, it won't kill anyone by poisoning them, but on the other hand it could kill them with stupidity if they decide All-Natural Youth Elixir Made with 100% Organic Toad Feces is all they need to fight their coronary artery disease.
personally i could care less what particular thing is in a homeopathic product, whatever PPM is probably less total exposure than i get from breathing on a daily basis. The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine".
A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it.
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On July 29 2017 02:59 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 02:50 zlefin wrote:On July 29 2017 02:42 Acrofales wrote:On July 29 2017 02:36 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:30 TheTenthDoc wrote:If you want to see how drugs would operate without FDA oversight from an efficacy and contents/good manufacturing practices perspective, just look at the herbal remedies/supplements market. It's utter chaos and the best don't "rise to the top." 4/5 tested products didn't contain any of the herbs on their labels and they're mostly just filler.You just end up playing eternal catch-up with these assholes, and the same thing would happen with drugs (and does in other countries). I think there should be serious civil/criminal penalties for claimig to sell something that's not in the bottle. I don't care if you want to sell herbs or homeopathy with no effect but it better be what you say it is. That alone would probably lead to more progress in non-pharmaceutical supplementation than anything elsse. Homeopathy doesn't lie. They put on the bottle that it's X diluted a billion times in water. That's fair. The problem isn't with what they claim is in the bottle. It's with what they claim that does... the same for most other snake oils. It's far too easy to verify that what is in the bottle is what they wrote on the outside. It's only slightly harder to verify that tap water does not in fact cure cancer, yet thousands of people believe it does because it's called homeopathy. did you read the linked article showing that they often DO lie? and that what's in the bottle isn't what they claim is ni the bottle? No, I was mostly responding to IgnE's broader claim. But isn't that already illegal? It is here in Europe. If you say your yoghurt contains strawberries it better fucking contain strawberries (and if you say it has at leat 10% strawberries, it had better have at least 10% strawberries). And food supplements fall under the same legislation. The EU actually does a lot of work in consumer protection and regularly dumps huge fines on companies that don't comply with exactly this type of thing.
for the US, the laws cover drugs proper, and food; but an exception was carved out for supplements (I don't recall the history or reasoning behind it). so the accuracy in labelling laws don't really apply to supplements, at laest not to a significant degree.
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Yeah, homeopathy isn't as big a problem from a health perspective. Though they also sometimes add random additives they don't mention.
The big problem is substituting random herbs or products without realizing it then killing people with allergies. Or omitting actual active ingredients from things like St. John's Wort that do have effects or inhib effects of other drugs (buying fake St. John's Wort when you're on warfarin when you've been taking read St. John's Wort could cause a hemorrhagic stroke). Or having rat feces in the pills because the warehouse storing the ingredients isn't up to code. Or any number of things, all of which are screened for prospectively in real drugs, even OTC drugs, because of the FDA but not supplements/homeopathy.
They get fined, but most of these companies aren't really important for the profits of the people involved. It's all a big shell game.
Like, they do more work checking on the manufacturers of Pop Tarts than they do "Baby Promoter 3.5X."
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On July 29 2017 02:59 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2017 19:08 Gorsameth wrote:
Some of the Republicans here can say they don't like the party and want something better but here we are, after another night of tension and another pure shit bill that would have made nothing better with 49 Republicans voting in favor.
This is the party you chose to be a part of.
The two party system works against both sides FYI. Next time you don't want to be called a Debbie Wassermann Schultz aficionado or I'm With Her (and her identity politics) Clinton supporter, remember that conservatives don't have much of a choice either. It should be an obvious conclusion in fairness.
If you believe 'identity politics' is in any way, shape or form comparable to actively trying to harm your citizens by denying them health insurance then you are as delusion as I already believe you are.
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On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:On July 29 2017 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
Well, it won't kill anyone by poisoning them, but on the other hand it could kill them with stupidity if they decide All-Natural Youth Elixir Made with 100% Organic Toad Feces is all they need to fight their coronary artery disease.
personally i could care less what particular thing is in a homeopathic product, whatever PPM is probably less total exposure than i get from breathing on a daily basis. The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine". A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it.
if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse.
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On July 29 2017 03:00 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 02:45 Plansix wrote:On July 29 2017 02:36 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:30 TheTenthDoc wrote:If you want to see how drugs would operate without FDA oversight from an efficacy and contents/good manufacturing practices perspective, just look at the herbal remedies/supplements market. It's utter chaos and the best don't "rise to the top." 4/5 tested products didn't contain any of the herbs on their labels and they're mostly just filler.You just end up playing eternal catch-up with these assholes, and the same thing would happen with drugs (and does in other countries). I think there should be serious civil/criminal penalties for claimig to sell something that's not in the bottle. I don't care if you want to sell herbs or homeopathy with no effect but it better be what you say it is. That alone would probably lead to more progress in non-pharmaceutical supplementation than anything elsse. There is a whole judicial economy that arises with route. It places the burden on individuals to collect evidence and prove the suppliant is a fraud. Or the local government has to bring criminal charges, often across state lines. It is snake oil 2.0, but this time they make sure it won’t kill anyone first. ok well now they can do whatever they want with no penalty. you always chime in with these pre-fabricated points and then add some silly line at the end. sorry its not snake oil 2.0 if you move from "anything goes" to "if you get caught claiming to sell something that you arent actually selling then you go to jail and lose all your assets."
My point is that it just turns into a shell game. If there are criminal penalties, then money has to be spent enforcing those laws across state lines. Local law enforcement isn’t going to do shit about it. If it is civil, avoiding liability and writing it into your business plan is easy. And it is all fun and games until someone dies. That is what happened with compounding firms in MA. People complained for years and civil cases were brought for poorly mixed drugs. And then one of them killed a whole bunch of people.
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On July 29 2017 03:09 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:On July 29 2017 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
Well, it won't kill anyone by poisoning them, but on the other hand it could kill them with stupidity if they decide All-Natural Youth Elixir Made with 100% Organic Toad Feces is all they need to fight their coronary artery disease.
personally i could care less what particular thing is in a homeopathic product, whatever PPM is probably less total exposure than i get from breathing on a daily basis. The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine". A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it. if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse.
Who buys them? The people who believe that there are some regulations before a product, any product, is allowed to be sold?
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On July 29 2017 03:09 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 03:00 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:45 Plansix wrote:On July 29 2017 02:36 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:30 TheTenthDoc wrote:If you want to see how drugs would operate without FDA oversight from an efficacy and contents/good manufacturing practices perspective, just look at the herbal remedies/supplements market. It's utter chaos and the best don't "rise to the top." 4/5 tested products didn't contain any of the herbs on their labels and they're mostly just filler.You just end up playing eternal catch-up with these assholes, and the same thing would happen with drugs (and does in other countries). I think there should be serious civil/criminal penalties for claimig to sell something that's not in the bottle. I don't care if you want to sell herbs or homeopathy with no effect but it better be what you say it is. That alone would probably lead to more progress in non-pharmaceutical supplementation than anything elsse. There is a whole judicial economy that arises with route. It places the burden on individuals to collect evidence and prove the suppliant is a fraud. Or the local government has to bring criminal charges, often across state lines. It is snake oil 2.0, but this time they make sure it won’t kill anyone first. ok well now they can do whatever they want with no penalty. you always chime in with these pre-fabricated points and then add some silly line at the end. sorry its not snake oil 2.0 if you move from "anything goes" to "if you get caught claiming to sell something that you arent actually selling then you go to jail and lose all your assets." My point is that it just turns into a shell game. If there are criminal penalties, then money has to be spent enforcing those laws across state lines. Local law enforcement isn’t going to do shit about it. If it is civil, avoiding liability and writing it into your business plan is easy. And it is all fun and games until someone dies. That is what happened with compounding firms in MA. People complained for years and civil cases were brought for poorly mixed drugs. And then one of them killed a whole bunch of people.
god dude you are so annoying. you advocate for regulation in far shadier areas that are far harder to police but you have the gall to tell me that its impossible to regulate the supplement industry. for once in your life please think about an issue before you resort to your own particular brand of jejune common sense
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On July 29 2017 03:13 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 03:09 Plansix wrote:On July 29 2017 03:00 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:45 Plansix wrote:On July 29 2017 02:36 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 02:30 TheTenthDoc wrote:If you want to see how drugs would operate without FDA oversight from an efficacy and contents/good manufacturing practices perspective, just look at the herbal remedies/supplements market. It's utter chaos and the best don't "rise to the top." 4/5 tested products didn't contain any of the herbs on their labels and they're mostly just filler.You just end up playing eternal catch-up with these assholes, and the same thing would happen with drugs (and does in other countries). I think there should be serious civil/criminal penalties for claimig to sell something that's not in the bottle. I don't care if you want to sell herbs or homeopathy with no effect but it better be what you say it is. That alone would probably lead to more progress in non-pharmaceutical supplementation than anything elsse. There is a whole judicial economy that arises with route. It places the burden on individuals to collect evidence and prove the suppliant is a fraud. Or the local government has to bring criminal charges, often across state lines. It is snake oil 2.0, but this time they make sure it won’t kill anyone first. ok well now they can do whatever they want with no penalty. you always chime in with these pre-fabricated points and then add some silly line at the end. sorry its not snake oil 2.0 if you move from "anything goes" to "if you get caught claiming to sell something that you arent actually selling then you go to jail and lose all your assets." My point is that it just turns into a shell game. If there are criminal penalties, then money has to be spent enforcing those laws across state lines. Local law enforcement isn’t going to do shit about it. If it is civil, avoiding liability and writing it into your business plan is easy. And it is all fun and games until someone dies. That is what happened with compounding firms in MA. People complained for years and civil cases were brought for poorly mixed drugs. And then one of them killed a whole bunch of people. god dude you are so annoying. you advocate for regulation in far shadier areas that are far harder to police but you have the gall to tell me that its impossible to regulate the supplement industry. for once in your life please think about an issue before you resort to your own particular brand of jejune common sense
Sorry, I have to slow it down for the truly ignorant. We are not any smarter than the people in 1910s and 1920s. People selling magical pills that will make you healthier, faster, more wakeful and happier is a time honored scam. And the only way to handle it is to regulate them and stop this stuff from hitting the shelves. Letting people fend for themselves or making illegal isn’t a solution since they need to get caught first. Your solution was tested back then and it failed. Its why we have the FDA.
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On July 29 2017 03:11 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 03:09 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:On July 29 2017 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
Well, it won't kill anyone by poisoning them, but on the other hand it could kill them with stupidity if they decide All-Natural Youth Elixir Made with 100% Organic Toad Feces is all they need to fight their coronary artery disease.
personally i could care less what particular thing is in a homeopathic product, whatever PPM is probably less total exposure than i get from breathing on a daily basis. The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine". A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it. if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse. Who buys them? The people who believe that there are some regulations before a product, any product, is allowed to be sold?
if you want an EFFECTIVE product its going to have an activity profile that will always come w desirabl and undesirable effects. this is basic biochemistry. there arent many biochemicaly active products out there that ONLY have upsides with no lethal dosage.
so you either make the market transparent or you turn it into a placebo-only market where no effective products are sold.
now im aware that uneducated and stupid people are out there. if you want to include warnings or whatever fine. but just recognize that part of the problem is that people don't respect biology or drugs because there is a prevailing myth that approved/regulated drugs are/can be both effective/active AND innocuous
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