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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
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On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is.
And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less.
But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards.
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On June 27 2017 08:26 NewSunshine wrote:Isn't 3 enough to stop the bill from passing? I fully expect/hope this bill dies a fiery death, I'm glad to see it being almost universally detested.
Yes, but those are provisional "no" votes - they all qualified with "without changes" or something to that effect.
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On June 27 2017 08:26 NewSunshine wrote:Isn't 3 enough to stop the bill from passing? I fully expect/hope this bill dies a fiery death, I'm glad to see it being almost universally detested.
They have a week of horse trading, but it's unclear if that will do any good. This bill is radioactive.
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On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards.
That's a good way to wind up with single payer, as it is the only proven system for dealing with a modern healthcare system, people panic really badly when they lose healthcare. The ACA literally is the conservative alternative to a public option or a single payer system. The GOP is really in a bind on how to deal with it.
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I highly doubt McConnell is moving forward without a plan. The cynical side of me says that moderate republicans will get a chance to oppose for a bit, soften the bill a little and then support 99% of the bill they opposed.
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On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards.
The attempt at 'fixing' the ACA is going difficult to say the least because "who knew healthcare could be so complicated".
Repealing without a replacement will destroy the entire healthcare market. It will fuck over everyone.
There are some holes in your roof and instead of planking them up and working out a refurbishing you knock the house down and sleep on the street for 2 years while they build a new house.
Its not a damn hyperbole when I say you think this bill doesn't fuck over enough people if your stance is "repeal now, worry about the consequences later".
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Plenty of people have posted on this since the ACA was passed (Krugman and Frum are at the top of the list of who I can think of.) Basically people think healthcare should be something people have and You can't keep the good parts of the ACA and get rid of the stuff that you don't like.) There is no republican replacement unless they were to try to replace the entire thing with some sort of more free market system but I think that would require 60 votes.
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On June 27 2017 08:41 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards. The attempt at 'fixing' the ACA is going difficult to say the least because "who knew healthcare could be so complicated". Repealing without a replacement will destroy the entire healthcare market. It will fuck over everyone. There are some holes in your roof and instead of planking them up and working out a refurbishing you knock the house down and sleep on the street for 2 years while they build a new house. Its not a damn hyperbole when I say you think this bill doesn't fuck over enough people if your stance is "repeal now, worry about the consequences later".
Considering how many people the ACA screwed over, I'd say hyperbole is an accurate description. But this is of course the problem with discussing Healthcare (and one reason I don't): anything that doesn't involve MASSIVE spending increases is considered mean and immoral (this spending bill does NOT decrease spending, it decreases the planned INCREASES, and that's not even guaranteed.)
Actually, afterwards would be pretty soon after. They just need a kick in the rear to get them going. Clearly just leaving it repealed and packing up for the day (term) would be both for people affected and the politicians. But they should pass the repeal bill they voted on however many times in Congress.
Put it this way: I want "Repeal and Replace" but I don't trust them to do, so I want Repeal then Replace."
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The National Association of Medicaid Directors on Monday criticized the deep cuts to Medicaid proposed in the Senate’s draft legislation to repeal and replace Obamacare as “unworkable.”
The group approved of certain provisions in the bill, like greater flexibility for the types of waivers from the law for which states can apply. But the group blasted the cuts the draft bill would impose to Medicaid.
“However, no amount of administrative or regulatory flexibility can compensate for the federal spending reductions that would occur as a result of this bill,” the group said in a statement. “Changes in the federal responsibility for financing the program must be accompanied by clearly articulated statutory changes to Medicaid to enable states to operate effectively under a cap. The Senate bill does not accomplish that. It would be a transfer of risk, responsibility, and cost to the states of historic proportions.”
The group refrained from offering an opinion on per capita caps and block grants, the two options states would have for Medicaid funding under the Senate bill. However, it argued that the rate at which the caps on federal Medicaid spending would grow over time under the Senate bill is “insufficient and unworkable.”
The group urged the Senate to leave Medicaid alone for now and to focus solely on the individual marketplace.
Source
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On June 27 2017 08:40 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards. That's a good way to wind up with single payer, as it is the only proven system for dealing with a modern healthcare system, people panic really badly when they lose healthcare. The ACA literally is the conservative alternative to a public option or a single payer system. The GOP is really in a bind on how to deal with it.
Actually, my fear is that what the GOP is doing now is how you end with single payer. Anything that is done is going to hurt, but Republicans don't know A) how to message or B) how to accept a short term hit.
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United States24581 Posts
On June 27 2017 08:49 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 08:41 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards. The attempt at 'fixing' the ACA is going difficult to say the least because "who knew healthcare could be so complicated". Repealing without a replacement will destroy the entire healthcare market. It will fuck over everyone. There are some holes in your roof and instead of planking them up and working out a refurbishing you knock the house down and sleep on the street for 2 years while they build a new house. Its not a damn hyperbole when I say you think this bill doesn't fuck over enough people if your stance is "repeal now, worry about the consequences later". Considering how many people the ACA screwed over, I'd say hyperbole is an accurate description. But this is of course the problem with discussing Healthcare (and one reason I don't): anything that doesn't involve MASSIVE spending increases is considered mean and immoral. Actually, afterwards would be pretty soon after. They just need a kick in the rear to get them going. Clearly just leaving it repealed and packing up for the day (term) would be both for people affected and the politicians. But they should pass the repeal bill they voted on however many times in Congress. Put it this way: I want "Repeal and Replace" but I don't trust them to do, so I want Repeal then Replace."
When they get their kick in the rear to get going (after successfully repealing the ACA), what will their healthcare solution look like, in your opinion? I have yet to read a description from a right-leaning poster of an effective healthcare system in the United States that would be palatable to the Republican party but maybe you can shed some light on that.
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On June 27 2017 08:49 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 08:41 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards. The attempt at 'fixing' the ACA is going difficult to say the least because "who knew healthcare could be so complicated". Repealing without a replacement will destroy the entire healthcare market. It will fuck over everyone. There are some holes in your roof and instead of planking them up and working out a refurbishing you knock the house down and sleep on the street for 2 years while they build a new house. Its not a damn hyperbole when I say you think this bill doesn't fuck over enough people if your stance is "repeal now, worry about the consequences later". Considering how many people the ACA screwed over, I'd say hyperbole is an accurate description. But this is of course the problem with discussing Healthcare (and one reason I don't): anything that doesn't involve MASSIVE spending increases is considered mean and immoral (this spending bill does NOT decrease spending, it decreases the planned INCREASES, and that's not even guaranteed.) Actually, afterwards would be pretty soon after. They just need a kick in the rear to get them going. Clearly just leaving it repealed and packing up for the day (term) would be both for people affected and the politicians. But they should pass the repeal bill they voted on however many times in Congress. Put it this way: I want "Repeal and Replace" but I don't trust them to do, so I want Repeal then Replace."
The problem with that is once you repeal, you have no political capital left. And the conservatives won't vote on anything that doesn't gut Medicaid. So we are left with the nightmare fuel that is the senate bill.
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On June 27 2017 08:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 08:49 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 08:41 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards. The attempt at 'fixing' the ACA is going difficult to say the least because "who knew healthcare could be so complicated". Repealing without a replacement will destroy the entire healthcare market. It will fuck over everyone. There are some holes in your roof and instead of planking them up and working out a refurbishing you knock the house down and sleep on the street for 2 years while they build a new house. Its not a damn hyperbole when I say you think this bill doesn't fuck over enough people if your stance is "repeal now, worry about the consequences later". Considering how many people the ACA screwed over, I'd say hyperbole is an accurate description. But this is of course the problem with discussing Healthcare (and one reason I don't): anything that doesn't involve MASSIVE spending increases is considered mean and immoral (this spending bill does NOT decrease spending, it decreases the planned INCREASES, and that's not even guaranteed.) Actually, afterwards would be pretty soon after. They just need a kick in the rear to get them going. Clearly just leaving it repealed and packing up for the day (term) would be both for people affected and the politicians. But they should pass the repeal bill they voted on however many times in Congress. Put it this way: I want "Repeal and Replace" but I don't trust them to do, so I want Repeal then Replace." The problem with that is once you repeal, you have no political capital left. And the conservatives won't vote on anything that doesn't gut Medicaid. So we are left with the nightmare fuel that is the senate bill.
I disagree, if repeal goes through then they are under enormous pressure to follow up.
But these series of posts from me are more strategic. If I thought the Republicans were capable of "repeal and replace" that actually involved repeal, then I'd go for it. That's a summary, really.
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On June 27 2017 08:56 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 08:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2017 08:49 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 08:41 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards. The attempt at 'fixing' the ACA is going difficult to say the least because "who knew healthcare could be so complicated". Repealing without a replacement will destroy the entire healthcare market. It will fuck over everyone. There are some holes in your roof and instead of planking them up and working out a refurbishing you knock the house down and sleep on the street for 2 years while they build a new house. Its not a damn hyperbole when I say you think this bill doesn't fuck over enough people if your stance is "repeal now, worry about the consequences later". Considering how many people the ACA screwed over, I'd say hyperbole is an accurate description. But this is of course the problem with discussing Healthcare (and one reason I don't): anything that doesn't involve MASSIVE spending increases is considered mean and immoral (this spending bill does NOT decrease spending, it decreases the planned INCREASES, and that's not even guaranteed.) Actually, afterwards would be pretty soon after. They just need a kick in the rear to get them going. Clearly just leaving it repealed and packing up for the day (term) would be both for people affected and the politicians. But they should pass the repeal bill they voted on however many times in Congress. Put it this way: I want "Repeal and Replace" but I don't trust them to do, so I want Repeal then Replace." The problem with that is once you repeal, you have no political capital left. And the conservatives won't vote on anything that doesn't gut Medicaid. So we are left with the nightmare fuel that is the senate bill. I disagree, if repeal goes through then they are under enormous pressure to follow up. But these series of posts from me are more strategic. If I thought the Republicans were capable of "repeal and replace" that actually involved repeal, then I'd go for it. That's a summary, really.
I understand your idea and you may well be right. But I'm not willing to take the bet that they will produce something acceptable when the price for being wrong is so high.
And the evidence being served up now as their plan is hardly building confidence in their ability to make even a barely acceptable healthcare system.
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Do we literally have no one ITT that favors the bill? That already is remarkable.
Let's go a little deeper though. This bill isn't just ugly or politically damaging. It has a human cost - and a huge one at that. The attention-grabbing argument is that people will die because this bill passes. That's probably true, but it's also not the largest point, because the number of people who would die from this bill is nebulous and difficult to define. But a much larger number of people will be greatly harmed by it even if they don't die outright.
The doublespeak that goes into putting "better care" in the acronym for this bill is profound, considering it appears to result in objectively worse care for just about everyone. Most provisions would appear to be aimed at reducing costs to healthy people by putting more of the cost burden on sick people, especially poor or old sick people. Forget the strategising over whether this is a smart political tactic, or the suspense drama of whether they'll have the votes, and look at the actual policy. It's morally bankrupt.
The fact is, whether you think the Democrats are tone-deaf, or overly submissive to corporate donors, or whatever else, at the very least when offered the policy of taking money from poor and old sick people to fund a tax cut for the rich, 48/48 of them don't support it. 49/52 Republicans do (plus the president and vice president). All else aside, is that not a massive point in the Democrats' favor?
In other words, the question isn't whether the conservatives ITT support the Republican effort. The question is why they're prepared to tolerate it.
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On June 27 2017 08:56 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 08:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2017 08:49 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 08:41 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards. The attempt at 'fixing' the ACA is going difficult to say the least because "who knew healthcare could be so complicated". Repealing without a replacement will destroy the entire healthcare market. It will fuck over everyone. There are some holes in your roof and instead of planking them up and working out a refurbishing you knock the house down and sleep on the street for 2 years while they build a new house. Its not a damn hyperbole when I say you think this bill doesn't fuck over enough people if your stance is "repeal now, worry about the consequences later". Considering how many people the ACA screwed over, I'd say hyperbole is an accurate description. But this is of course the problem with discussing Healthcare (and one reason I don't): anything that doesn't involve MASSIVE spending increases is considered mean and immoral (this spending bill does NOT decrease spending, it decreases the planned INCREASES, and that's not even guaranteed.) Actually, afterwards would be pretty soon after. They just need a kick in the rear to get them going. Clearly just leaving it repealed and packing up for the day (term) would be both for people affected and the politicians. But they should pass the repeal bill they voted on however many times in Congress. Put it this way: I want "Repeal and Replace" but I don't trust them to do, so I want Repeal then Replace." The problem with that is once you repeal, you have no political capital left. And the conservatives won't vote on anything that doesn't gut Medicaid. So we are left with the nightmare fuel that is the senate bill. I disagree, if repeal goes through then they are under enormous pressure to follow up. But these series of posts from me are more strategic. If I thought the Republicans were capable of "repeal and replace" that actually involved repeal, then I'd go for it. That's a summary, really.
But again, there is no replacement with conservatives. They don't want Medicaid to exist and also don't like any solution that solves the "pre-existing conditions" problem. There is no replacement that they can pass without democrats. They ran on a platform that is impossible to accomplish with party line votes.
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On June 27 2017 08:52 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 08:49 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 08:41 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards. The attempt at 'fixing' the ACA is going difficult to say the least because "who knew healthcare could be so complicated". Repealing without a replacement will destroy the entire healthcare market. It will fuck over everyone. There are some holes in your roof and instead of planking them up and working out a refurbishing you knock the house down and sleep on the street for 2 years while they build a new house. Its not a damn hyperbole when I say you think this bill doesn't fuck over enough people if your stance is "repeal now, worry about the consequences later". Considering how many people the ACA screwed over, I'd say hyperbole is an accurate description. But this is of course the problem with discussing Healthcare (and one reason I don't): anything that doesn't involve MASSIVE spending increases is considered mean and immoral. Actually, afterwards would be pretty soon after. They just need a kick in the rear to get them going. Clearly just leaving it repealed and packing up for the day (term) would be both for people affected and the politicians. But they should pass the repeal bill they voted on however many times in Congress. Put it this way: I want "Repeal and Replace" but I don't trust them to do, so I want Repeal then Replace." When they get their kick in the rear to get going (after successfully repealing the ACA), what will their healthcare solution look like, in your opinion? I have yet to read a description from a right-leaning poster of an effective healthcare system in the United States that would be palatable to the Republican party but maybe you can shed some light on that.
I've seen what it's like when Danglars tries to have a conversation on this topic, so I'm going to tread lightly.
What would the GOP bill look like? I don't know for sure, but it would almost certainly look better than what they are proposing now. There'd hopefully be some things like making it easier to keep health insurance between jobs and stuff like that, but I don't know what that would involve. That's when we'd get into real negotiation. There'd obviously still be Medicaid, and perhaps high risk pools subsidized by the federal and state governments. There'd be the elimination or reform of the community rating system and most likely a return of so-called "catastrophic insurance."
Just a few things off the top of my head.
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On June 27 2017 09:04 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 08:56 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 08:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2017 08:49 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 08:41 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards. The attempt at 'fixing' the ACA is going difficult to say the least because "who knew healthcare could be so complicated". Repealing without a replacement will destroy the entire healthcare market. It will fuck over everyone. There are some holes in your roof and instead of planking them up and working out a refurbishing you knock the house down and sleep on the street for 2 years while they build a new house. Its not a damn hyperbole when I say you think this bill doesn't fuck over enough people if your stance is "repeal now, worry about the consequences later". Considering how many people the ACA screwed over, I'd say hyperbole is an accurate description. But this is of course the problem with discussing Healthcare (and one reason I don't): anything that doesn't involve MASSIVE spending increases is considered mean and immoral (this spending bill does NOT decrease spending, it decreases the planned INCREASES, and that's not even guaranteed.) Actually, afterwards would be pretty soon after. They just need a kick in the rear to get them going. Clearly just leaving it repealed and packing up for the day (term) would be both for people affected and the politicians. But they should pass the repeal bill they voted on however many times in Congress. Put it this way: I want "Repeal and Replace" but I don't trust them to do, so I want Repeal then Replace." The problem with that is once you repeal, you have no political capital left. And the conservatives won't vote on anything that doesn't gut Medicaid. So we are left with the nightmare fuel that is the senate bill. I disagree, if repeal goes through then they are under enormous pressure to follow up. But these series of posts from me are more strategic. If I thought the Republicans were capable of "repeal and replace" that actually involved repeal, then I'd go for it. That's a summary, really. But again, there is no replacement with conservatives. They don't want Medicaid to exist and also don't like any solution that solves the "pre-existing conditions" problem. There is no replacement that they can pass without democrats. They ran on a platform that is impossible to accomplish with party line votes.
There is no politically feasible way for Medicaid to stop existing. It simply won't happen. We will always have programs/welfare for the poor.
Edit: even the pre-exiting conditions issue is so seared into the brains of Americans that untold amounts of $$$ will be spent on that, no matter what.
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On June 27 2017 08:49 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2017 08:41 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 08:30 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 07:34 Gorsameth wrote:On June 27 2017 07:32 Introvert wrote:On June 27 2017 06:48 Velr wrote:
Is it just me or have xDaunt, Danglars and Introvert been staggeringly silent on the healthcare bill?
I mean.. At least 2 of them are often around and comment on most "important" stuff but... I'm normally busy during peak posting hours, all I've seen so far are tweets. Rest assured that, as someone who wants full repeal, I don't like this bill, as it even seems like the Medicaid "cuts" (read: reduction in increase) are never going to happen. You think this bill does not fuck over enough people yet? Because that is what a full repeal and Medicare cut is. And this, of course, is Exhibit A of why to post less. But no, I think something can be worked out, but the GOP should keep its promise and undo this crapshow called Obamacare. Figure out how to transition, etc, afterwards. The attempt at 'fixing' the ACA is going difficult to say the least because "who knew healthcare could be so complicated". Repealing without a replacement will destroy the entire healthcare market. It will fuck over everyone. There are some holes in your roof and instead of planking them up and working out a refurbishing you knock the house down and sleep on the street for 2 years while they build a new house. Its not a damn hyperbole when I say you think this bill doesn't fuck over enough people if your stance is "repeal now, worry about the consequences later". Considering how many people the ACA screwed over, I'd say hyperbole is an accurate description. But this is of course the problem with discussing Healthcare (and one reason I don't): anything that doesn't involve MASSIVE spending increases is considered mean and immoral (this spending bill does NOT decrease spending, it decreases the planned INCREASES, and that's not even guaranteed.) Actually, afterwards would be pretty soon after. They just need a kick in the rear to get them going. Clearly just leaving it repealed and packing up for the day (term) would be both for people affected and the politicians. But they should pass the repeal bill they voted on however many times in Congress. Put it this way: I want "Repeal and Replace" but I don't trust them to do, so I want Repeal then Replace."
I don't think repeal then replace would work; just because ther'es pressure doesn't mean they'd do it; not when there's a lot of counterpressure preventing action. especially not considering hwat happened with the sequester aways back.
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