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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On June 07 2017 06:31 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 06:28 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 06:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 07 2017 05:30 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 05:17 NewSunshine wrote:
"Obvious sentiment behind the phrase" becomes not so obvious when you're not referring to the literal meaning of the phrase. That's the only way I can reconcile your statements, and it's confusing as all hell to read if that's what you're going with. Like seriously, it doesn't matter what your point is, if your word choice is misleading then your point isn't what comes across. No, I'm not going to accept this and here's why: what people did here (and do routinely) was take what I said and automatically ascribe the dumbest possible interpretation to it. And when there is some ambiguity in what I post, the response from posters is almost never (with the exception of very few posters) "xDaunt, do you mean this?" It's always "let's strawman the living fuck out of xDaunt's post in the worst possible way." That's what I object to. You've spent years destroying any benefit of doubt that other people in this thread are granted automatically. You've got to earn that back. There's nothing to earn back, because nothing was lost. Only the lesser posters don't understand this. EDIT: And if anything, my posting is better now than it used to be. And you want to be asked nicely to explain your posts. lmao
As a prolific creator and connoisseur of shitposting, I can say that Xdaunts shitposts have improved. It is a dubious accomplishment. But it would be wrong to judge him on his life choices. If he aspires the highest grade of /pol/ shitposting, who are we to say he can’t dare to dream?
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On June 07 2017 06:28 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 06:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 07 2017 05:30 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 05:17 NewSunshine wrote:
"Obvious sentiment behind the phrase" becomes not so obvious when you're not referring to the literal meaning of the phrase. That's the only way I can reconcile your statements, and it's confusing as all hell to read if that's what you're going with. Like seriously, it doesn't matter what your point is, if your word choice is misleading then your point isn't what comes across. No, I'm not going to accept this and here's why: what people did here (and do routinely) was take what I said and automatically ascribe the dumbest possible interpretation to it. And when there is some ambiguity in what I post, the response from posters is almost never (with the exception of very few posters) "xDaunt, do you mean this?" It's always "let's strawman the living fuck out of xDaunt's post in the worst possible way." That's what I object to. You've spent years destroying any benefit of doubt that other people in this thread are granted automatically. You've got to earn that back. There's nothing to earn back, because nothing was lost. Only the lesser posters don't understand this. EDIT: And if anything, my posting is better now than it used to be.
You are a self-fulfilling prophecy, my friend. As soon as you stop acting put out because people are getting confused by how you word your posts, and actually make an effort to clarify when they are confused, people will stop getting irritated with you. But you have no interest in actually addressing the problem, instead calling people "lesser posters". How does that help anything?
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United States42770 Posts
On June 07 2017 06:37 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 06:19 Mohdoo wrote:On June 07 2017 06:12 LegalLord wrote:
xDaunt is usually pretty good about clarifying his point if you ask without being an ass. It's not a bad thing to try. You're right, and this has been my experience too. But I think it is entirely fair to say that he is at times intentionally vague or nondiscript. He often doesn't put as much effort into actually making his ideas/posts clear on their own. People shouldn't need to research xDaunt's views/posts in order to decode what he means. If he put just like 20% more effort into posts and made it a priority for people to understand what he means, it would make a world of difference. Sure, people jump down his throat too easily, but it would be silly to pretend people are *entirely* wrong for often misunderstanding. His posts can be vague/safe...overly so. My posts are direct and to the point. I'm not intentionally vague. I don't hide things. I don't need to play stupid games. People look for stupid, trivial shit to challenge me on. This "white people are terrorists" business is a prime example. I'm not going to take the blame for them shitting up the thread.
Changing a woman telling Kanye West to put "white people are terrorists" on a t-shirt to a woman stating that in her opinion "white people are terrorists" isn't just being intentionally vague, it's lying.
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On June 07 2017 05:55 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:35 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:29 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Generally when people suggest you put something on a T-Shirt they are being facetious. But "Being black is terrorism" has no basis, whereas "being white is terrorism" is a hyperbolic comment on a real issue. Yeah, try arguing that to all of the people who have their property destroyed whenever BLM get its vandalism on. So are you suggesting that there is truth to the idea that "being black is terrorism" but there isn't to "being white is terrorism", that they both have truth and your feelings were hurt, or that there isn't truth to either? I'm suggesting that your attempt to argue that there's a basis for "being white is terrorism" while there is no basis for "being black is terrorism" is foolish. I don't think that you can differentiate between the two at all. Either paint both with the broad brush or none at all. So you it was that your feelings got hurt, go it. It's funny that you want to put BLM up against the ongoing history of white supremacy in this country, and is further indicative of your own complicity in white supremacy. Like you legitimately thought we could compare the two and they are unable to be differentiated. People do realize how absurd that is right? No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. As an outsider, is it possible to receive an explanation as to the role the average (white?) American plays in perpetuating white supremacy? Is being a beneficiary enough? A silent onlooker? Unconscious everyday acts? I ask out of an honest wish to know.
I am also curious about this. I know I benefit from White Privilege simply by being white, but I also try to promote racial equality and fairness. GH, would you mind elaborating please?
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On June 07 2017 06:39 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 06:37 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 06:19 Mohdoo wrote:On June 07 2017 06:12 LegalLord wrote:
xDaunt is usually pretty good about clarifying his point if you ask without being an ass. It's not a bad thing to try. You're right, and this has been my experience too. But I think it is entirely fair to say that he is at times intentionally vague or nondiscript. He often doesn't put as much effort into actually making his ideas/posts clear on their own. People shouldn't need to research xDaunt's views/posts in order to decode what he means. If he put just like 20% more effort into posts and made it a priority for people to understand what he means, it would make a world of difference. Sure, people jump down his throat too easily, but it would be silly to pretend people are *entirely* wrong for often misunderstanding. His posts can be vague/safe...overly so. My posts are direct and to the point. I'm not intentionally vague. I don't hide things. I don't need to play stupid games. People look for stupid, trivial shit to challenge me on. This "white people are terrorists" business is a prime example. I'm not going to take the blame for them shitting up the thread. Changing a woman telling Kanye West to put "white people are terrorists" on a t-shirt to a woman stating that in her opinion "white people are terrorists" isn't just being intentionally vague, it's lying.
And this is why this thread can suck. People like Kwark just make shit up on trivial points. Even after I have repeatedly clarified what I said, he still leads with this. Shitposting in action. And y'all have the gall to call me out.
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United States42770 Posts
On June 07 2017 06:45 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 06:39 KwarK wrote:On June 07 2017 06:37 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 06:19 Mohdoo wrote:On June 07 2017 06:12 LegalLord wrote:
xDaunt is usually pretty good about clarifying his point if you ask without being an ass. It's not a bad thing to try. You're right, and this has been my experience too. But I think it is entirely fair to say that he is at times intentionally vague or nondiscript. He often doesn't put as much effort into actually making his ideas/posts clear on their own. People shouldn't need to research xDaunt's views/posts in order to decode what he means. If he put just like 20% more effort into posts and made it a priority for people to understand what he means, it would make a world of difference. Sure, people jump down his throat too easily, but it would be silly to pretend people are *entirely* wrong for often misunderstanding. His posts can be vague/safe...overly so. My posts are direct and to the point. I'm not intentionally vague. I don't hide things. I don't need to play stupid games. People look for stupid, trivial shit to challenge me on. This "white people are terrorists" business is a prime example. I'm not going to take the blame for them shitting up the thread. Changing a woman telling Kanye West to put "white people are terrorists" on a t-shirt to a woman stating that in her opinion "white people are terrorists" isn't just being intentionally vague, it's lying. And this is why this thread can suck. People like Kwark just make shit up on trivial points. Even after I have repeatedly clarified what I said, he still leads with this. Shitposting in action. And y'all have the gall to call me out.
Since you're so eager to clarify what you meant we'll make it easy.
Do you think she meant that being white makes you a terrorist? Yes or no.
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On June 07 2017 04:56 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 04:47 KwarK wrote:On June 07 2017 04:35 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:40 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
So you it was that your feelings got hurt, go it.
It's funny that you want to put BLM up against the ongoing history of white supremacy in this country, and is further indicative of your own complicity in white supremacy. Like you legitimately thought we could compare the two and they are unable to be differentiated.
People do realize how absurd that is right? No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. Can you take a step back and see how terrible your argument is? You're saying I want things to get worse for myself because I want people to feel bad. You took my explanation that white people don't improve their behavior unless and until they recognize that "their role in white supremacy" and turned it into an accusation of being a Nazi with a white hood. Then you're telling me I should be begging for your pity, instead of demanding my rights. On June 07 2017 04:18 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. both of these strategies are not only terrible, but expecations of other people are way too high. People are out there worrying about their own problems, and GH expects them to be like wait, "oh shit I'm white!". That is so foolish it's absurd. If you see something unfair like police discrimination, run for office and make a platform against it. Yeah what kind of idiot thinks white people can think about anyone but themselves...? Also are you really using the "run for office" line? I'm aware of truth that being black is a disadvantage due to systems and practices put in place before me and you. All you come off as to me, even with the facts in mind, is a whiner. Someone who desperately wants other people to change, with repeated guilt trips and over generalizations/broad brush strokes of "white people". So you are not a good messenger for your cause. I believe in your message, that black people face a unique struggle in america and have a host of difficulties. The way you go about trying to fix that is laughably ineffective. The thing is though, if the white majority actually had to deal with the shit black America deals with then they'd view it as an immediate priority. A small tax on the price of tea? Revolution! African Americans facing systematic voting rights discrimination? Well, how polite were they when they complained about it? It's very difficult to pretend that white America has a good faith interest in rectifying the ongoing problems of racism in society when white America refuses to make it a priority and focuses on the way in which the black community is complaining. If your stance on whether black lives matter is at all influenced by the negative actions of the group Black Lives Matter, for example, then you never really thought they mattered in the first place. I often find myself getting intensely annoyed and frustrated by the extreme leftists on my facebook for their intense stupidity but I still have to support the causes I believe in because whether people have rights isn't dependent upon how annoying I find the people in question. White people are complicit in white supremacy in America. If they weren't we wouldn't still have it. We just collectively don't view it as a big priority. It wasn't until cell phones got video cameras that we even started to listen to the shit that the African American community has been complaining about forever. I agree with all of this I don't see what the benif is to get white people on the same page about it instead of focusing on fixing the issue as it is. We have the evidence and the moral high ground about the issue but I stead of advocating for effective change people like GH just want to express their anger about it all and get nowhere in the process. Better schools less crime. Less crime lower taxes. It's not a hard argument to sell if anyone was interested in making it Edit xDaunt you have as much responsibility to correct people on what you mean as others do when they're confused about what you mean. You can make the point that it's ambiguous to if she literaly ment it or not the same way that trump tweets things.
I find it both amusing and sad that you genuinely think that isn't or hasn't always been a part of what black people are doing to get white America to stop allowing white supremacy to be an intrinsic part of the American identity.
On June 07 2017 05:55 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:35 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:29 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Generally when people suggest you put something on a T-Shirt they are being facetious. But "Being black is terrorism" has no basis, whereas "being white is terrorism" is a hyperbolic comment on a real issue. Yeah, try arguing that to all of the people who have their property destroyed whenever BLM get its vandalism on. So are you suggesting that there is truth to the idea that "being black is terrorism" but there isn't to "being white is terrorism", that they both have truth and your feelings were hurt, or that there isn't truth to either? I'm suggesting that your attempt to argue that there's a basis for "being white is terrorism" while there is no basis for "being black is terrorism" is foolish. I don't think that you can differentiate between the two at all. Either paint both with the broad brush or none at all. So you it was that your feelings got hurt, go it. It's funny that you want to put BLM up against the ongoing history of white supremacy in this country, and is further indicative of your own complicity in white supremacy. Like you legitimately thought we could compare the two and they are unable to be differentiated. People do realize how absurd that is right? No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. As an outsider, is it possible to receive an explanation as to the role the average (white?) American plays in perpetuating white supremacy? Is being a beneficiary enough? A silent onlooker? Unconscious everyday acts? I ask out of an honest wish to know.
Presuming "outsider" means from another country it's all of those and more. Though simply being a beneficiary doesn't make you complicit, the lazy attitude toward the injustice others suffer while enjoying it that makes one complicit in white supremacy.
Though, to be clear, POC aren't incapable of perpetuating white supremacy ourselves, internalized racism and the following tiers of white supremacy (usually with Asians [not the brown ones] as a close second) leave plenty of room for everyone to participate in white supremacy.
Also since so many folks are so sensitive about this, allow me to make clear I have similar struggles with maleness and being an American. Those both afford me privilege beyond the wildest dreams of many, as such I feel compelled to stand with them as much as I expect white Americans to stand with POC demanding their rights (not demanding that they politely request white America stop abusing them).
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On June 07 2017 06:45 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 06:39 KwarK wrote:On June 07 2017 06:37 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 06:19 Mohdoo wrote:On June 07 2017 06:12 LegalLord wrote:
xDaunt is usually pretty good about clarifying his point if you ask without being an ass. It's not a bad thing to try. You're right, and this has been my experience too. But I think it is entirely fair to say that he is at times intentionally vague or nondiscript. He often doesn't put as much effort into actually making his ideas/posts clear on their own. People shouldn't need to research xDaunt's views/posts in order to decode what he means. If he put just like 20% more effort into posts and made it a priority for people to understand what he means, it would make a world of difference. Sure, people jump down his throat too easily, but it would be silly to pretend people are *entirely* wrong for often misunderstanding. His posts can be vague/safe...overly so. My posts are direct and to the point. I'm not intentionally vague. I don't hide things. I don't need to play stupid games. People look for stupid, trivial shit to challenge me on. This "white people are terrorists" business is a prime example. I'm not going to take the blame for them shitting up the thread. Changing a woman telling Kanye West to put "white people are terrorists" on a t-shirt to a woman stating that in her opinion "white people are terrorists" isn't just being intentionally vague, it's lying. And this is why this thread can suck. People like Kwark just make shit up on trivial points. Even after I have repeatedly clarified what I said, he still leads with this. Shitposting in action. And y'all have the gall to call me out.
I call you out because you shitpost alot. I call kwark out as well cuz he also shitposts a lot.
No reason I can't call out all the shitposters.
you also frequently are intentionally vague and obfuscatory, in exactly the way a trained lawyer is expected to be.
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On June 07 2017 06:37 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 06:19 Mohdoo wrote:On June 07 2017 06:12 LegalLord wrote:
xDaunt is usually pretty good about clarifying his point if you ask without being an ass. It's not a bad thing to try. You're right, and this has been my experience too. But I think it is entirely fair to say that he is at times intentionally vague or nondiscript. He often doesn't put as much effort into actually making his ideas/posts clear on their own. People shouldn't need to research xDaunt's views/posts in order to decode what he means. If he put just like 20% more effort into posts and made it a priority for people to understand what he means, it would make a world of difference. Sure, people jump down his throat too easily, but it would be silly to pretend people are *entirely* wrong for often misunderstanding. His posts can be vague/safe...overly so. My posts are direct and to the point. I'm not intentionally vague. I don't hide things. I don't need to play stupid games. People look for stupid, trivial shit to challenge me on. This "white people are terrorists" business is a prime example. I'm not going to take the blame for them shitting up the thread.
Sorry man, but you're definitely not generally clear. You definitely come across as intentionally vague very often. I feel like there have been many times that you and I have had long exchanges where most of my posts are just asking for details as to what you actually think. I enjoy our conversations, but you don't always make it easy for me to know the specifics of what you think.
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On June 07 2017 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:
Also since so many folks are so sensitive about this, allow me to make clear I have similar struggles with maleness and being an American. Those both afford me privilege beyond the wildest dreams of many, as such I feel compelled to stand with them as much as I expect white Americans to stand with POC demanding their rights (not demanding that they politely request white America stop abusing them).
How do you stand by less privileged people that aren't American or male, GH?
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On June 07 2017 06:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 05:55 Fwmeh wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:35 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:29 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, try arguing that to all of the people who have their property destroyed whenever BLM get its vandalism on. So are you suggesting that there is truth to the idea that "being black is terrorism" but there isn't to "being white is terrorism", that they both have truth and your feelings were hurt, or that there isn't truth to either? I'm suggesting that your attempt to argue that there's a basis for "being white is terrorism" while there is no basis for "being black is terrorism" is foolish. I don't think that you can differentiate between the two at all. Either paint both with the broad brush or none at all. So you it was that your feelings got hurt, go it. It's funny that you want to put BLM up against the ongoing history of white supremacy in this country, and is further indicative of your own complicity in white supremacy. Like you legitimately thought we could compare the two and they are unable to be differentiated. People do realize how absurd that is right? No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. As an outsider, is it possible to receive an explanation as to the role the average (white?) American plays in perpetuating white supremacy? Is being a beneficiary enough? A silent onlooker? Unconscious everyday acts? I ask out of an honest wish to know. I am also curious about this. I know I benefit from White Privilege simply by being white, but I also try to promote racial equality and fairness. GH, would you mind elaborating please?
I struggled with this one in my 20s, but it boils down that we can be both. I never worry about being pulled over for the color of my skin, since is pretty dope. I also try to address racism in my life when I see it or am guilty of it.
The reality is that we are not doing those things all the time. I’m flying next month and I’m not likely to get “randomly screened” like some of my Muslim friends(they always seem to get picked at random). That is pretty sweet for me and I’m not going to take that time in the airport to ask to be randomly screened to balance the scale or something. So in that moment, I will be benefiting from white privilege. Just like when I get pulled over by the cops or don’t get followed around in a department store. That doesn’t make me bad or evil.
I have this discussion with my brother a lot because he is in a command position and some of his boys say some stupid shit. So he comes resident SJW in the family who also manages people. And it is the same shit every time. The struggles of blacks in the US does not invalidate any of the struggles in our own lives. He constantly harps on the idea that “we all have it bad” like that somehow makes racism not pending problem. That is his gut response and it’s because he is uncomfortable talking about racism. He is also dealing with a bunch of post Iraq war shit too.
I strongly recommend Born a Crime by Trevor Noah if you want to dig into the idea of privilege without the baggage of US political topics. He talks about growing up half white in South Africa and he was “privileged”. His own grandmother wouldn’t hit him because he was “white”, but would tan the shit out of his cousins. He talks about show 5 year old him would use this “privilege” to steal cookies and get his cousins in trouble. Not because he is an evil racist, but just a shitty 5 year old. But to white people, he was black in South Africa and his life was super shit because of it. Just not as shitty as all 100% black people in South Africa.
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On June 07 2017 06:58 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:
Also since so many folks are so sensitive about this, allow me to make clear I have similar struggles with maleness and being an American. Those both afford me privilege beyond the wildest dreams of many, as such I feel compelled to stand with them as much as I expect white Americans to stand with POC demanding their rights (not demanding that they politely request white America stop abusing them). How do you stand by less privileged people, that aren't American, or male, GH?
I support candidates and policies that outright refuse to perpetuate or at minimum move us away from the abuse of less privileged people around the world for one. I lend my voice to them and their issues in places where they don't have a voice or are easily drowned out, I defer to their experiences over my perceptions, I accept that I as an American play a role in their oppression and so on.
That's not a comprehensive list but I think it covers the basics of what seems insurmountable for many white Americans.
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Do you think it's your duty as an individual to stand up for / help / aid individuals in lesser conditions?
Do you think it's fair that an individual just wants to live his life and not be too involved with those things? Do you blame them for not being / becoming involved?
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In the meeting at the White House today with Republican Congressional leaders, President Trump spent some time talking up his latest idea for the border wall. According to 3 people with direct knowledge of the meeting, Trump floated the idea that the wall could be covered in solar panels and the electricity generated used to pay for the cost.
Trump said his vision was a wall 40 feet to 50 feet high and covered with solar panels so they'd be "beautiful structures," the people said. The President said that most walls you hear about are 14 feet or 15 feet tall but this would be nothing like those walls. Trump told the lawmakers they could talk about the solar-paneled wall as long as they said it was his idea. One person cautioned that the President wasn't presenting the solar-paneled wall as the definite solution.
Where this idea might come from: A proposal to cover the wall with solar panels was among those submitted when the U.S. requested designs earlier this year, according to the AP. Companies winning contracts and asked to build prototypes may be announced this month.
What else was discussed:
The majority of the meeting focused on healthcare. Trump started off by saying the base was stronger than ever now and it was time to come through for them. He asked Mitch McConnell when the bill would be ready and McConnell said the bill would be released soon and scored by the CBO and voted on before July 4. Everyone agreed June would be spent talking about the failures of the Obama healthcare bill.
McConnell suggested acting on the debt-ceiling before the August recess to clear the way for tax reform. But Trump said they ought to do it after August so it doesn't cloud the messaging [presumably on healthcare]. After the meeting, one source said the administration has little control over the timing of the debt-ceiling vote and that they expected Congress to deal with it promptly.
https://www.axios.com/trump-pitched-republican-leaders-on-a-solar-paneled-border-wall-2435037888.html
Not sure if completely ridiculous or sort of genius
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On June 07 2017 07:11 Uldridge wrote:
Do you think it's your duty as an individual to stand up for / help / aid individuals in lesser conditions?
Do you think it's fair that an individual just wants to live his life and not be too involved with those things? Do you blame them for not being / becoming involved?
I liken it to a body. Humanity is a body, groups within it, organs. Your heart is not dis-involved from your lungs simply because your heart is in great shape. If you have lung cancer, your heart is in danger, and it is in it's and all of your other organs interest to get it healthy.
So it's not a matter of "blame" per say, but a matter of universal self-interest. That by believing others oppression doesn't involve oneself, they are the heart saying,"why do I care about the lungs, we're not involved with that."
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Poor whites at the very least should be super for what black people want because they want major overhauls of the system and the system fucks them as well. They are probably among the most ill informed though and don't see the common interest. Most of those poor white people see stuff like a rich black girl at an ivy league university yelling at a professor about racism and get turned off which is why right wing media tries to spread that shit around. The right is probably terrified of poor whites realizing that they also stand to benefit from uniting with the BLMs of the world since there is probably as many poor whites as the entire black population.
In the end the system benefits the privileged class the most, and most of the privileged class is white and that privileged trickles down to other whites because the privileged designed the system and made all the rules.
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On June 07 2017 07:13 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +In the meeting at the White House today with Republican Congressional leaders, President Trump spent some time talking up his latest idea for the border wall. According to 3 people with direct knowledge of the meeting, Trump floated the idea that the wall could be covered in solar panels and the electricity generated used to pay for the cost.
Trump said his vision was a wall 40 feet to 50 feet high and covered with solar panels so they'd be "beautiful structures," the people said. The President said that most walls you hear about are 14 feet or 15 feet tall but this would be nothing like those walls. Trump told the lawmakers they could talk about the solar-paneled wall as long as they said it was his idea. One person cautioned that the President wasn't presenting the solar-paneled wall as the definite solution.
Where this idea might come from: A proposal to cover the wall with solar panels was among those submitted when the U.S. requested designs earlier this year, according to the AP. Companies winning contracts and asked to build prototypes may be announced this month.
What else was discussed:
The majority of the meeting focused on healthcare. Trump started off by saying the base was stronger than ever now and it was time to come through for them. He asked Mitch McConnell when the bill would be ready and McConnell said the bill would be released soon and scored by the CBO and voted on before July 4. Everyone agreed June would be spent talking about the failures of the Obama healthcare bill.
McConnell suggested acting on the debt-ceiling before the August recess to clear the way for tax reform. But Trump said they ought to do it after August so it doesn't cloud the messaging [presumably on healthcare]. After the meeting, one source said the administration has little control over the timing of the debt-ceiling vote and that they expected Congress to deal with it promptly.
https://www.axios.com/trump-pitched-republican-leaders-on-a-solar-paneled-border-wall-2435037888.htmlNot sure if completely ridiculous or sort of genius
So how much does it cost to prevent people from breaking the solar panels on the super unpopular wall? And the part where he needs land to build it.
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On June 07 2017 07:27 Slaughter wrote:
Poor whites at the very least should be super for what black people want because they want major overhauls of the system and the system fucks them as well. They are probably among the most ill informed though and don't see the common interest. Most of those poor white people see stuff like a rich black girl at an ivy league university yelling at a professor about racism and get turned off which is why right wing media tries to spread that shit around. The right is probably terrified of poor whites realizing that they also stand to benefit from uniting with the BLMs of the world since there is probably as many poor whites as the entire black population.
In the end the system benefits the privileged class the most, and most of the privileged class is white and that privileged trickles down to other whites because the privileged designed the system and made all the rules.
Plus I'd be willing to bet poor whites would also benefit tremendously from police bodycams and the like because I don't think they have the best interactions with police themselves. Maybe not as likely to get out and out shot, but still.
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United States42770 Posts
The problem with the wall isn't that we don't have a way to power it. It's not an electric wall. If you want to generate solar panels then make a solar farm out in the desert, if you want to make a wall make a wall. A solar wall is addressing a problem we don't have.
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I don't think that necessarily the case. Communes can work, for example.
I like your ideal representation of how humans should operate (in everyone's best interest), but the reality is much more brutal. You have fucked up family situations (abusive parents, family members, less than ideal upbringing, ...), you have been given a bad genetic make up (intelligence, physiology, ..), you simply have bad luck by being at the wrong place at the wrong time (accidents, injuries, violence, ..), your career choice, your choices in life, you are determined by where you've been born and there are probably some more parameters in there..
There are countless people living in these less than ideal situations, that just can't deal with other stuff than making life better for other people. Either they can't because they have to deal with shit in their own life (and that's a priority) and their immediate surroundings, or they're physically incapable of doing that (no decent capacity for empathy, no cognitive ability to focus on meta humanity).
It's easy to look at capable people and to point fingers at them, but you don't know their backstory. I firmly believe that it's up to people that DO feel engaged to incite passion or awareness in other people or at least try to. But you can not ever think that it's not in their self interest when they don't stand up for other people. People already have to deal with a lot of shit in their own life without extra shit piling on top of it.
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EPT
