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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
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On June 07 2017 04:53 Gorsameth wrote:That spike up and down is unnaturally steep Oo. Tens of thousands of people who begin to frequent the site from one day to the next and all leave at the same time?
It wouldn't be at all inconsistent with the idea that Breitbart's traffic was being inflated by a swarm of bots, which I recall being a rumor at some point.
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On June 07 2017 04:56 Sermokala wrote:
Edit xDaunt you have as much responsibility to correct people on what you mean as others do when they're confused about what you mean. You can make the point that it's ambiguous to if she literaly ment it or not the same way that trump tweets things.
Looks pretty clear to me in this case that I explicitly stated that the issue was the sentiment behind the statement rather than a literal reading of the statement itself. I can't help it if people are going to ignore my posts.
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10 am eastern standard time is when it should start as I read.
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United States42774 Posts
On June 07 2017 04:56 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 04:47 KwarK wrote:On June 07 2017 04:35 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:40 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
So you it was that your feelings got hurt, go it.
It's funny that you want to put BLM up against the ongoing history of white supremacy in this country, and is further indicative of your own complicity in white supremacy. Like you legitimately thought we could compare the two and they are unable to be differentiated.
People do realize how absurd that is right? No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. Can you take a step back and see how terrible your argument is? You're saying I want things to get worse for myself because I want people to feel bad. You took my explanation that white people don't improve their behavior unless and until they recognize that "their role in white supremacy" and turned it into an accusation of being a Nazi with a white hood. Then you're telling me I should be begging for your pity, instead of demanding my rights. On June 07 2017 04:18 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. both of these strategies are not only terrible, but expecations of other people are way too high. People are out there worrying about their own problems, and GH expects them to be like wait, "oh shit I'm white!". That is so foolish it's absurd. If you see something unfair like police discrimination, run for office and make a platform against it. Yeah what kind of idiot thinks white people can think about anyone but themselves...? Also are you really using the "run for office" line? I'm aware of truth that being black is a disadvantage due to systems and practices put in place before me and you. All you come off as to me, even with the facts in mind, is a whiner. Someone who desperately wants other people to change, with repeated guilt trips and over generalizations/broad brush strokes of "white people". So you are not a good messenger for your cause. I believe in your message, that black people face a unique struggle in america and have a host of difficulties. The way you go about trying to fix that is laughably ineffective. The thing is though, if the white majority actually had to deal with the shit black America deals with then they'd view it as an immediate priority. A small tax on the price of tea? Revolution! African Americans facing systematic voting rights discrimination? Well, how polite were they when they complained about it? It's very difficult to pretend that white America has a good faith interest in rectifying the ongoing problems of racism in society when white America refuses to make it a priority and focuses on the way in which the black community is complaining. If your stance on whether black lives matter is at all influenced by the negative actions of the group Black Lives Matter, for example, then you never really thought they mattered in the first place. I often find myself getting intensely annoyed and frustrated by the extreme leftists on my facebook for their intense stupidity but I still have to support the causes I believe in because whether people have rights isn't dependent upon how annoying I find the people in question. White people are complicit in white supremacy in America. If they weren't we wouldn't still have it. We just collectively don't view it as a big priority. It wasn't until cell phones got video cameras that we even started to listen to the shit that the African American community has been complaining about forever. I agree with all of this I don't see what the benif is to get white people on the same page about it instead of focusing on fixing the issue as it is. We have the evidence and the moral high ground about the issue but I stead of advocating for effective change people like GH just want to express their anger about it all and get nowhere in the process. Better schools less crime. Less crime lower taxes. It's not a hard argument to sell if anyone was interested in making it.
Whether or not it's effective, GH's anger in the face of hypocrisy is both righteous and justified. The fact that the hypocrites double down on their hypocrisy when confronted may make his anger ineffective but the failure is theirs, not his. If someone does something wrong and when challenged doubles down on it then the problem is their sense of wounded pride, or in this case generally white fragility, not the person who calls them out.
I can't fault him for being angry. Effective or not, he's right. It's not his job to make everyone else stop being wrong, if they choose to be wrong after knowing the facts then that's on them.
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On June 07 2017 05:02 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 04:56 Sermokala wrote:
Edit xDaunt you have as much responsibility to correct people on what you mean as others do when they're confused about what you mean. You can make the point that it's ambiguous to if she literaly ment it or not the same way that trump tweets things. Looks pretty clear to me in this case that I explicitly stated that the issue was the sentiment behind the statement rather than a literal reading of the statement itself. I can't help it if people are going to ignore my posts.
It doesn't matter how clear it should be. Once people misunderstood you they weren't arguing with what you said anymore.
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On June 07 2017 03:39 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 03:32 Danglars wrote:
This is all not to mention she generally tweets crazy stuff from her twitter account like Louis Mensch was her idol. It should be a second check on hoping against hope that she had ironic white fragility tendencies. Now she gets to be the subject of prosecution from agency headed by a "Confederate general" (her words).
Also, I think she claims she didn't actually intend to harm national security through her actions and gets out of this. I don't think the intentions of a leaker really matter. If she is a loon, then so what? What matters is whether the leaked information is in the public interest. In this case it seems to be, because it informs the public about what the government knows about Russia's covert warfare against the USA. In my view, citizens have a right to know if another country (allegedly) wages war against them.
You missed the two pages this was on. It wasn't about the intentions of the leaker.
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On June 07 2017 05:02 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 04:56 Sermokala wrote:
Edit xDaunt you have as much responsibility to correct people on what you mean as others do when they're confused about what you mean. You can make the point that it's ambiguous to if she literaly ment it or not the same way that trump tweets things. Looks pretty clear to me in this case that I explicitly stated that the issue was the sentiment behind the statement rather than a literal reading of the statement itself. I can't help it if people are going to ignore my posts.
Of course what you say is going to be clear to yourself. What kind of argument is that for people misunderstanding your posts? If you're not being clear enough, and there is a miscommunication, does it not behoove you to make it clearer, instead of folding your arms and saying they should know better?
If anyone is going to ignore your posts, that's probably why. Just from a reasonable-human-being-having-a-reasonable-conversation perspective.
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On June 07 2017 05:03 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 04:56 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:47 KwarK wrote:On June 07 2017 04:35 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. Can you take a step back and see how terrible your argument is? You're saying I want things to get worse for myself because I want people to feel bad. You took my explanation that white people don't improve their behavior unless and until they recognize that "their role in white supremacy" and turned it into an accusation of being a Nazi with a white hood. Then you're telling me I should be begging for your pity, instead of demanding my rights. On June 07 2017 04:18 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Your feelings were obviously hurt.
There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is.
So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. both of these strategies are not only terrible, but expecations of other people are way too high. People are out there worrying about their own problems, and GH expects them to be like wait, "oh shit I'm white!". That is so foolish it's absurd. If you see something unfair like police discrimination, run for office and make a platform against it. Yeah what kind of idiot thinks white people can think about anyone but themselves...? Also are you really using the "run for office" line? I'm aware of truth that being black is a disadvantage due to systems and practices put in place before me and you. All you come off as to me, even with the facts in mind, is a whiner. Someone who desperately wants other people to change, with repeated guilt trips and over generalizations/broad brush strokes of "white people". So you are not a good messenger for your cause. I believe in your message, that black people face a unique struggle in america and have a host of difficulties. The way you go about trying to fix that is laughably ineffective. The thing is though, if the white majority actually had to deal with the shit black America deals with then they'd view it as an immediate priority. A small tax on the price of tea? Revolution! African Americans facing systematic voting rights discrimination? Well, how polite were they when they complained about it? It's very difficult to pretend that white America has a good faith interest in rectifying the ongoing problems of racism in society when white America refuses to make it a priority and focuses on the way in which the black community is complaining. If your stance on whether black lives matter is at all influenced by the negative actions of the group Black Lives Matter, for example, then you never really thought they mattered in the first place. I often find myself getting intensely annoyed and frustrated by the extreme leftists on my facebook for their intense stupidity but I still have to support the causes I believe in because whether people have rights isn't dependent upon how annoying I find the people in question. White people are complicit in white supremacy in America. If they weren't we wouldn't still have it. We just collectively don't view it as a big priority. It wasn't until cell phones got video cameras that we even started to listen to the shit that the African American community has been complaining about forever. I agree with all of this I don't see what the benif is to get white people on the same page about it instead of focusing on fixing the issue as it is. We have the evidence and the moral high ground about the issue but I stead of advocating for effective change people like GH just want to express their anger about it all and get nowhere in the process. Better schools less crime. Less crime lower taxes. It's not a hard argument to sell if anyone was interested in making it. Whether or not it's effective, GH's anger in the face of hypocrisy is both righteous and justified. The fact that the hypocrites double down on their hypocrisy when confronted may make his anger ineffective but the failure is theirs, not his. If someone does something wrong and when challenged doubles down on it then the problem is their sense of wounded pride, or in this case generally white fragility, not the person who calls them out. I can't fault him for being angry. Effective or not, he's right. It's not his job to make everyone else stop being wrong, if they choose to be wrong after knowing the facts then that's on them.
It doesn't matter who's fault it is one side has an issue and the other side doesn't. One has the power to fix the issue and it's not the one that has the issue.
Reality doesn't bend for morality. He can be angry all he wants until he expects anything to get better. Then he's the hypocrite.
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On June 07 2017 04:35 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 04:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:35 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
So are you suggesting that there is truth to the idea that "being black is terrorism" but there isn't to "being white is terrorism", that they both have truth and your feelings were hurt, or that there isn't truth to either? I'm suggesting that your attempt to argue that there's a basis for "being white is terrorism" while there is no basis for "being black is terrorism" is foolish. I don't think that you can differentiate between the two at all. Either paint both with the broad brush or none at all. So you it was that your feelings got hurt, go it. It's funny that you want to put BLM up against the ongoing history of white supremacy in this country, and is further indicative of your own complicity in white supremacy. Like you legitimately thought we could compare the two and they are unable to be differentiated. People do realize how absurd that is right? No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. Can you take a step back and see how terrible your argument is? You're saying I want things to get worse for myself because I want people to feel bad. You took my explanation that white people don't improve their behavior unless and until they recognize that "their role in white supremacy" and turned it into an accusation of being a Nazi with a white hood. Then you're telling me I should be begging for your pity, instead of demanding my rights. On June 07 2017 04:18 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:35 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
I'm suggesting that your attempt to argue that there's a basis for "being white is terrorism" while there is no basis for "being black is terrorism" is foolish. I don't think that you can differentiate between the two at all. Either paint both with the broad brush or none at all. So you it was that your feelings got hurt, go it. It's funny that you want to put BLM up against the ongoing history of white supremacy in this country, and is further indicative of your own complicity in white supremacy. Like you legitimately thought we could compare the two and they are unable to be differentiated. People do realize how absurd that is right? No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. both of these strategies are not only terrible, but expecations of other people are way too high. People are out there worrying about their own problems, and GH expects them to be like wait, "oh shit I'm white!". That is so foolish it's absurd. If you see something unfair like police discrimination, run for office and make a platform against it. Yeah what kind of idiot thinks white people can think about anyone but themselves...? Also are you really using the "run for office" line? I'm aware of truth that being black is a disadvantage due to systems and practices put in place before me and you. All you come off as to me, even with the facts in mind, is a whiner. Someone who desperately wants other people to change, with repeated guilt trips and over generalizations/broad brush strokes of "white people". So you are not a good messenger for your cause. I believe in your message, that black people face a unique struggle in america and have a host of difficulties. The way you go about trying to fix that is laughably ineffective.
It is so incredibly beyond me why you guys don't understand what you're ACTUALLY saying here.
"Please tell me gently that I'm very content with the way society works and that you don't support my decision to not contest the status quo that is favouring me and discriminates you. And now go fuck off complain somewhere else, the way you told me that is too offensive. That way it's never gonna change. Hush now. Don't be open about your demands. Make me want to support your struggle. But that's not gonna happen because I find coal miner's rights way more important. Yes, that's the way it is, hush now."
Wtf is wrong with you people.
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On June 07 2017 05:05 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 05:02 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 04:56 Sermokala wrote:
Edit xDaunt you have as much responsibility to correct people on what you mean as others do when they're confused about what you mean. You can make the point that it's ambiguous to if she literaly ment it or not the same way that trump tweets things. Looks pretty clear to me in this case that I explicitly stated that the issue was the sentiment behind the statement rather than a literal reading of the statement itself. I can't help it if people are going to ignore my posts. Of course what you say is going to be clear to yourself. What kind of argument is that for people misunderstanding your posts? If you're not being clear enough, and there is a miscommunication, does it not behoove you to make it clearer, instead of folding your arms and saying they should know better? If anyone is going to ignore your posts, that's probably why. Just from a reasonable-human-being-having-a-reasonable-conversation perspective.
I made a post where I literally said "are we really going to pretend that she doesn't mean and believe precisely the obvious sentiment that is behind that phrase," and I'm the one who is to be held responsible for people not being able to grasp that I don't think that she literally thinks that white people are terrorists? Are you shitting me? Igne put it best a year ago or so when he said that people need to read others' posts with a little bit of charity. We're well outside of that minimum threshold here and into the realm of willful stupidity.
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"Obvious sentiment behind the phrase" becomes not so obvious when you're not referring to the literal meaning of the phrase. That's the only way I can reconcile your statements, and it's confusing as all hell to read if that's what you're going with. Like seriously, it doesn't matter what your point is, if your word choice is misleading then your point isn't what comes across.
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United States42774 Posts
On June 07 2017 05:09 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 05:03 KwarK wrote:On June 07 2017 04:56 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:47 KwarK wrote:On June 07 2017 04:35 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Your feelings were obviously hurt.
There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is.
So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. Can you take a step back and see how terrible your argument is? You're saying I want things to get worse for myself because I want people to feel bad. You took my explanation that white people don't improve their behavior unless and until they recognize that "their role in white supremacy" and turned it into an accusation of being a Nazi with a white hood. Then you're telling me I should be begging for your pity, instead of demanding my rights. On June 07 2017 04:18 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:
[quote]
If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black.
No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. both of these strategies are not only terrible, but expecations of other people are way too high. People are out there worrying about their own problems, and GH expects them to be like wait, "oh shit I'm white!". That is so foolish it's absurd. If you see something unfair like police discrimination, run for office and make a platform against it. Yeah what kind of idiot thinks white people can think about anyone but themselves...? Also are you really using the "run for office" line? I'm aware of truth that being black is a disadvantage due to systems and practices put in place before me and you. All you come off as to me, even with the facts in mind, is a whiner. Someone who desperately wants other people to change, with repeated guilt trips and over generalizations/broad brush strokes of "white people". So you are not a good messenger for your cause. I believe in your message, that black people face a unique struggle in america and have a host of difficulties. The way you go about trying to fix that is laughably ineffective. The thing is though, if the white majority actually had to deal with the shit black America deals with then they'd view it as an immediate priority. A small tax on the price of tea? Revolution! African Americans facing systematic voting rights discrimination? Well, how polite were they when they complained about it? It's very difficult to pretend that white America has a good faith interest in rectifying the ongoing problems of racism in society when white America refuses to make it a priority and focuses on the way in which the black community is complaining. If your stance on whether black lives matter is at all influenced by the negative actions of the group Black Lives Matter, for example, then you never really thought they mattered in the first place. I often find myself getting intensely annoyed and frustrated by the extreme leftists on my facebook for their intense stupidity but I still have to support the causes I believe in because whether people have rights isn't dependent upon how annoying I find the people in question. White people are complicit in white supremacy in America. If they weren't we wouldn't still have it. We just collectively don't view it as a big priority. It wasn't until cell phones got video cameras that we even started to listen to the shit that the African American community has been complaining about forever. I agree with all of this I don't see what the benif is to get white people on the same page about it instead of focusing on fixing the issue as it is. We have the evidence and the moral high ground about the issue but I stead of advocating for effective change people like GH just want to express their anger about it all and get nowhere in the process. Better schools less crime. Less crime lower taxes. It's not a hard argument to sell if anyone was interested in making it. Whether or not it's effective, GH's anger in the face of hypocrisy is both righteous and justified. The fact that the hypocrites double down on their hypocrisy when confronted may make his anger ineffective but the failure is theirs, not his. If someone does something wrong and when challenged doubles down on it then the problem is their sense of wounded pride, or in this case generally white fragility, not the person who calls them out. I can't fault him for being angry. Effective or not, he's right. It's not his job to make everyone else stop being wrong, if they choose to be wrong after knowing the facts then that's on them. It doesn't matter who's fault it is one side has an issue and the other side doesn't. One has the power to fix the issue and it's not the one that has the issue. Reality doesn't bend for morality. He can be angry all he wants until he expects anything to get better. Then he's the hypocrite.
Yeah, I'll agree with that. Being wise vs being right in a given situation. If someone was actually trying to win the hearts and minds of white America then sure, be super cautious around white fragility, put the overall goal ahead of being right.
But this is just him raging against the system on team liquid, he doesn't need to put on a cap and call us "massa" here, he can be as uppity as he likes.
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On June 07 2017 03:24 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 03:05 Wulfey_LA wrote:On June 07 2017 02:53 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 02:46 Wulfey_LA wrote:So the Intercept intentionally burned their source. "When reporters at The Intercept approached the National Security Agency on June 1 to confirm a document that had been anonymously leaked to the publication in May, they handed over a copy of the document to the NSA to verify its authenticity. When they did so, the Intercept team inadvertently exposed its source because the copy showed fold marks that indicated it had been printed—and it included encoded watermarking that revealed exactly when it had been printed and on what printer." There are two possible interpretations for those actions. (1) Rank incompetence (2) Intentional burning However, (1) is not possible. The Intercept actually has professional and knowledgeable staff on hand to deal with leaked information. All it would take to defeat this kind of watermarking would be taking a picture of the leaked document, PDFing it, and slightly downgrading the quality, then sending a black and white print out of that downgraded document for confirmation. The Intercept sent a high quality copy (or possibly the original?) directly to the government for confirmation. That is straight up (2) Intentional burning. A plea of incompetence cannot be sustained here. https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/06/how-a-few-yellow-dots-burned-the-intercepts-nsa-leaker/EDIT: here are the guys the Intercept have on staff. No possible plea of incompetence with actual experts on the payroll. I highly doubt that the Intercept intentionally burned a source. There's nothing to be gained by doing that. No, this is pure incompetence. As someone who litigates a lot of complicated negligence cases, I can tell you that people ignore and break internal rules, policies, and procedures all of the time. And sometimes they do it knowingly, which is often considered "willful and wanton" conduct. Have you read a post by Glenn Greenwald in the last year? Greenwald is denier-in-chief of the existence of Russian Active measures and puts his best effort in playing the epistemological spin game. Any evidence of Russian Active measures goes against his day to day spin. This would be like FOX news putting out a definitive report on how their reporters fed Rod Wheeler the Seth Rich conspiracies. Here is the Intercept's sorry comment on the matter. Until they explicitly plead that they are OpSec morons who have zero knowledge of how printers work, this was intentional. https://theintercept.com/2017/06/06/statement-on-justice-department-allegations/?comments=1#commentsHere is a guy that works at the Intercept. No ignorance. All intent. https://twitter.com/micahflee This logic makes no sense, and just makes it seem like you have a vendetta against the Intercept you are bringing into this argument. Your personal feelings are not relevant here... The Intercept is a serious news site with staff that is independent of Greenwald. What would The Intercept, as an organization, have to gain from outing a source in this way? By far the most obvious reasoning is that an intercept staff member was negligent with their protocol for dealing with leaked documents.
Yeah, I got beef with the Intercept. Greenwald is a crazy dissembler and the second best whataboutismer on the Internet (Hugh Hewitt is his better). But let's tally up the evidence.
On the side of them being competent:
Their successful handling of Snowden and Manning.
Their formalized and previously successful leak drop: https://theintercept.com/leak/
Their expert staff that I already cited.
That they hold themselves out as a leak organization ala wikileaks.
On the side of them being incompetent:
Occam's razor presumptions.
Note that my biases are not evidence either way.
EDIT: from the link I just cited:
+ Show Spoiler +So whether you are in government or the private sector, if you become aware of behavior that you believe is unethical, illegal, or damaging to the public interest, consider sharing your information securely with us.
We’ve taken steps to make sure that people can leak to us as safely as possible. Our newsroom is staffed by reporters who have extensive experience working with whistleblowers, as well as some of the world’s foremost internet security specialists. Our pioneering use of the SecureDrop platform enables you to communicate with our reporters and send documents to us anonymously.
Access journalism — where reporters treat business and government officials as arbiters of truth — is a discredited model. Whistleblower-based journalism is far better suited to the challenges facing the press and the public today.
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Kwark, you just make it too easy. Of course no, not all white people are complicit in the systemic racial problems against the blacks! That is an oversimplification! And yes, such a statement can be seen as racist as well.
Not the level of annoying behaviour whilst protesting is the point, although there is a point when the means override the ends, rather the demands and underlying racist policy of it.
I like my world in spe without racism, so I think of any movement in that direction should begin with the mindset of eradication of that and not taking some of those principles and turn them, to a further usage as a weapon.
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On June 07 2017 04:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Unfortunately all standards have been thrown out the window. I suspect this story (which is pretty rotten if true) will be of little to no importance or impact.
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On June 07 2017 04:43 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 04:36 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:35 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
I'm suggesting that your attempt to argue that there's a basis for "being white is terrorism" while there is no basis for "being black is terrorism" is foolish. I don't think that you can differentiate between the two at all. Either paint both with the broad brush or none at all. So you it was that your feelings got hurt, go it. It's funny that you want to put BLM up against the ongoing history of white supremacy in this country, and is further indicative of your own complicity in white supremacy. Like you legitimately thought we could compare the two and they are unable to be differentiated. People do realize how absurd that is right? No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. Can you take a step back and see how terrible your argument is? You're saying I want things to get worse for myself because I want people to feel bad. You took my explanation that white people don't improve their behavior unless and until they recognize that "their role in white supremacy" and turned it into an accusation of being a Nazi with a white hood. Then you're telling me I should be begging for your pity, instead of demanding my rights. On June 07 2017 04:18 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:On June 07 2017 03:40 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
So you it was that your feelings got hurt, go it.
It's funny that you want to put BLM up against the ongoing history of white supremacy in this country, and is further indicative of your own complicity in white supremacy. Like you legitimately thought we could compare the two and they are unable to be differentiated.
People do realize how absurd that is right? No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. both of these strategies are not only terrible, but expecations of other people are way too high. People are out there worrying about their own problems, and GH expects them to be like wait, "oh shit I'm white!". That is so foolish it's absurd. If you see something unfair like police discrimination, run for office and make a platform against it. Yeah what kind of idiot thinks white people can think about anyone but themselves...? Also are you really using the "run for office" line? You can't demand your rights when your less then 12% of the population. All that leads to is asking for people to ignore you when you can't effect things. You're asking people who don't associate themselves with white supremacy to start doing it. People associate white supremacy with skin heads nazies and the kkk. So yes you are asking people to associate themselves with a white hat instead of trying to get them on your side. You don't need to beg for pity when it's in the media all tge time about how bad it is for black people. People know that all ready but instead of trying to tell them how to fix it you're too busy being angry for them not fixing it. I associate white supremacy with the modern Republican party, but that may just be me personally.
I do as well. I don’t see all Republicans as white supremacist, but it is getting harder and harder to see the racists as a small minority. Especially with in the last 2-3 years. I cannot tell if I am more aware of the issues or if they are getting worse. But it feels like more of the latter.
But a black buddy of mine said “Its always been like this. We just have video now.”
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On June 07 2017 05:17 NewSunshine wrote:
"Obvious sentiment behind the phrase" becomes not so obvious when you're not referring to the literal meaning of the phrase. That's the only way I can reconcile your statements, and it's confusing as all hell to read if that's what you're going with. Like seriously, it doesn't matter what your point is, if your word choice is misleading then your point isn't what comes across.
No, I'm not going to accept this and here's why: what people did here (and do routinely) was take what I said and automatically ascribe the dumbest possible interpretation to it. And when there is some ambiguity in what I post, the response from posters is almost never (with the exception of very few posters) "xDaunt, do you mean this?" It's always "let's strawman the living fuck out of xDaunt's post in the worst possible way." That's what I object to.
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On June 07 2017 05:02 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 04:56 Sermokala wrote:
Edit xDaunt you have as much responsibility to correct people on what you mean as others do when they're confused about what you mean. You can make the point that it's ambiguous to if she literaly ment it or not the same way that trump tweets things. Looks pretty clear to me in this case that I explicitly stated that the issue was the sentiment behind the statement rather than a literal reading of the statement itself. I can't help it if people are going to ignore my posts.
You linked an article from a questionable news outlet with the pull quote "being white is terrorism" attributed to the leaker. It turned out that she didn't say that, she just said Kanye should put that on a t-shirt one time on the internet. I had a long discussion with Danglars recently about media bias, and that is exactly the kind of dishonest pull-quote that makes an article not technically false, but clearly is deceptively headlined. Then people complained about the source and you complained they wouldn't take the article seriously wven though it provides links to all her postings. Then people pointed out the pull-quote you provided is completely out of context and you're arguing... I'm not sure what? I think you're arguing the context doesn't change anything because she clearly adamantly believes "being white is terrorism" if she tweeted that, but anybody who's been on the internet for 5 seconds should understand how fucking stupid that is. People say things satirically, or just to troll, or just to get attention, or any number of other reasons.
In other words, the skepticism of the source was entirely justified and your pull-quote amounted to attributing "you may say that I'm a dreamer but I'm not" to John Lennon. Removed from context the meaning completely changes.
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On June 07 2017 05:03 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 04:56 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:47 KwarK wrote:On June 07 2017 04:35 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:45 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
No, my feelings aren't hurt at all by the statement "being white is terrorism." I really don't give a shit beyond finding the statement to be both hilarious and a sad statement on the current state of society. As for your statement, I was merely pointing out the intrinsic intellectual dishonesty in it. We all know that you have an agenda to push (which we don't need to revisit), but it is ludicrous to suggest that there's no basis to brand all black people as terrorists while there is such a basis for white people. Your feelings were obviously hurt. There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is. So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. Can you take a step back and see how terrible your argument is? You're saying I want things to get worse for myself because I want people to feel bad. You took my explanation that white people don't improve their behavior unless and until they recognize that "their role in white supremacy" and turned it into an accusation of being a Nazi with a white hood. Then you're telling me I should be begging for your pity, instead of demanding my rights. On June 07 2017 04:18 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 04:12 Sermokala wrote:On June 07 2017 04:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 07 2017 03:56 biology]major wrote:On June 07 2017 03:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Your feelings were obviously hurt.
There's no intellectual dishonesty (on my side). You're being incredibly foolish and doubling down on it by suggesting BLM or blackness and whiteness are interchangeable. I know you aren't that oblivious to history or contemporary events as to not see how preposterous that is.
So I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster that you are just trolling or posting things so absurdly dumb they don't warrant interaction. If I could choose what race to be born in the US, I would choose white, asian, brown, black in that order. This is because I understand that my chances of being advantaged/disadvantaged are different based on race. That doesn't however mean that I view everything through the prism of race and blame white people for having an advantage, I don't care. Sometimes I feel that you aknowledge the differences of being black in America, but then you really try to guilt trip whites or whoever to somehow give up their position in society. That's not how it works, we have an unfair system, and it will slowly change over time, but never expect on an individual level to feel sorry for you for being black. No one wants your pity, folks want you to take responsibility for your role in perpetuating white supremacy and maybe, one day, stop. But we're literally just trying to get you folks to own it before we expect you to stop. Can you take a step back and see how terrible a strategy is for a moment? You don't want things to get better you just want people to feel bad. You don't place any priority or urgency to fix anything or do anything about the issue you just want people to freely start associating themselves with skinheads neo nazies and the kkk in some idea that down the road they'll make things better. You should be asking for pity and getting people to do things to make the situation better beacuse of that pity people feel. Going after the police is an unwinnable argument. both of these strategies are not only terrible, but expecations of other people are way too high. People are out there worrying about their own problems, and GH expects them to be like wait, "oh shit I'm white!". That is so foolish it's absurd. If you see something unfair like police discrimination, run for office and make a platform against it. Yeah what kind of idiot thinks white people can think about anyone but themselves...? Also are you really using the "run for office" line? I'm aware of truth that being black is a disadvantage due to systems and practices put in place before me and you. All you come off as to me, even with the facts in mind, is a whiner. Someone who desperately wants other people to change, with repeated guilt trips and over generalizations/broad brush strokes of "white people". So you are not a good messenger for your cause. I believe in your message, that black people face a unique struggle in america and have a host of difficulties. The way you go about trying to fix that is laughably ineffective. The thing is though, if the white majority actually had to deal with the shit black America deals with then they'd view it as an immediate priority. A small tax on the price of tea? Revolution! African Americans facing systematic voting rights discrimination? Well, how polite were they when they complained about it? It's very difficult to pretend that white America has a good faith interest in rectifying the ongoing problems of racism in society when white America refuses to make it a priority and focuses on the way in which the black community is complaining. If your stance on whether black lives matter is at all influenced by the negative actions of the group Black Lives Matter, for example, then you never really thought they mattered in the first place. I often find myself getting intensely annoyed and frustrated by the extreme leftists on my facebook for their intense stupidity but I still have to support the causes I believe in because whether people have rights isn't dependent upon how annoying I find the people in question. White people are complicit in white supremacy in America. If they weren't we wouldn't still have it. We just collectively don't view it as a big priority. It wasn't until cell phones got video cameras that we even started to listen to the shit that the African American community has been complaining about forever. I agree with all of this I don't see what the benif is to get white people on the same page about it instead of focusing on fixing the issue as it is. We have the evidence and the moral high ground about the issue but I stead of advocating for effective change people like GH just want to express their anger about it all and get nowhere in the process. Better schools less crime. Less crime lower taxes. It's not a hard argument to sell if anyone was interested in making it. Whether or not it's effective, GH's anger in the face of hypocrisy is both righteous and justified. The fact that the hypocrites double down on their hypocrisy when confronted may make his anger ineffective but the failure is theirs, not his. If someone does something wrong and when challenged doubles down on it then the problem is their sense of wounded pride, or in this case generally white fragility, not the person who calls them out. I can't fault him for being angry. Effective or not, he's right. It's not his job to make everyone else stop being wrong, if they choose to be wrong after knowing the facts then that's on them.
how does that apply to the non-hypocrites though? since he's also angry at the non-hypocrites trying to fix the problems.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/59286594efcf595732adc5cb/master/w_900,c_limit/alexa-ranks-01.jpg)
