US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7779

On June 07 2017 07:32 TheTenthDoc wrote:


Plus I'd be willing to bet poor whites would also benefit tremendously from police bodycams and the like because I don't think they have the best interactions with police themselves. Maybe not as likely to get out and out shot, but still.

On June 07 2017 07:37 Uldridge wrote:
I don't think that necessarily the case. Communes can work, for example.
I like your ideal representation of how humans should operate (in everyone's best interest), but the reality is much more brutal. You have fucked up family situations (abusive parents, family members, less than ideal upbringing, ...), you have been given a bad genetic make up (intelligence, physiology, ..), you simply have bad luck by being at the wrong place at the wrong time (accidents, injuries, violence, ..), your career choice, your choices in life, you are determined by where you've been born and there are probably some more parameters in there..
There are countless people living in these less than ideal situations, that just can't deal with other stuff than making life better for other people. Either they can't because they have to deal with shit in their own life (and that's a priority) and their immediate surroundings, or they're physically incapable of doing that (no decent capacity for empathy, no cognitive ability to focus on meta humanity).
It's easy to look at capable people and to point fingers at them, but you don't know their backstory. I firmly believe that it's up to people that DO feel engaged to incite passion or awareness in other people or at least try to. But you can not ever think that it's not in their self interest when they don't stand up for other people. People already have to deal with a lot of shit in their own life without extra shit piling on top of it.

On June 07 2017 07:37 GreenHorizons wrote:


They sure don't. bodycams are less of a solution than we need, but it's just one of those things that seems like an obvious necessity seeing as frequently the police lie (or misremember if you want to be generous) about what happened in a contentious situation.

Then it's also no wonder why an organization born of slave catchers would oppose such an imposition on their habitual lying.

On June 07 2017 07:42 KwarK wrote:
The question now being, if it's a manufactured crisis, why is Trump tweeting about how they had it coming and he called it and it's a victory for America?

On June 07 2017 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:



Presuming "outsider" means from another country it's all of those and more. Though simply being a beneficiary doesn't make you complicit, the lazy attitude toward the injustice others suffer while enjoying it that makes one complicit in white supremacy.

Though, to be clear, POC aren't incapable of perpetuating white supremacy ourselves, internalized racism and the following tiers of white supremacy (usually with Asians [not the brown ones] as a close second) leave plenty of room for everyone to participate in white supremacy.

Also since so many folks are so sensitive about this, allow me to make clear I have similar struggles with maleness and being an American. Those both afford me privilege beyond the wildest dreams of many, as such I feel compelled to stand with them as much as I expect white Americans to stand with POC demanding their rights (not demanding that they politely request white America stop abusing them).

On June 07 2017 07:42 KwarK wrote:
The question now being, if it's a manufactured crisis, why is Trump tweeting about how they had it coming and he called it and it's a victory for America?

On June 07 2017 07:52 Fwmeh wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to answer, it did provide me with context for your posts.

The thing for me though, is that there is no end to the injustices others suffer. There simply is not enough time to actively care about everything that is wrong on a global scale. So you have to choose your battles. Now, most people will prioritize unjust events which are geographically close to them, and unjust events happening to people who are similar to them. I am not debating whether this is right or wrong, I simply observe this as being the case. I also think that this is unlikely to change.

Now, it appears that in the US there are lots of low-hanging fruit with regards to rectifying injustices, and people obstructing that are certainly worthy of being called out.

On June 07 2017 07:49 Gorsameth wrote:

Because it this really is a planted story then im 90% sure its was done to see if Trump would pick it up and empower it. In which case it was a roaring success.

On June 07 2017 05:42 KwarK wrote:

I'd like to say that I'm not complicit in American racism, after all, I've only been here a few years and I'm not allowed to vote. But on the other hand it's not like I'm trying especially hard to do anything about it. It doesn't really impact me, I can go through my daily life without really seeing it, whenever I encounter racism I'm the beneficiary of it and I don't notice it because to me it's just how the world has always treated me. I'm certainly not trying very hard to do anything about it, when I get the vote I'll not vote for white supremacists but that's about the extent of my commitment to the cause.

Whether or not that makes me complicit, well, that's up to you and your definition. But I think it's unlikely that I'd be so indifferent if it actually impacted me on a day to day basis.

On June 07 2017 08:06 IgnE wrote:


please explain to me how you are less complicit than a white person born in this country in 1997, 20 years? your complicity, if most native-born white americans can be said to be complicit, is substantially the same: you take advantage of white supremacism without attempting to dismantle it.

maybe you disagree that most native born whites are complicit. or maybe you think most native born whites are considerably more racist than you. but the number of years youve been here seems to have little relevance to your "complicity"

On June 07 2017 07:37 GreenHorizons wrote:
You make some good points, particularly calling out my ableism. I doubt anyone here is making the case they are disabled and that's what prevents them from recognizing or addressing their role in white supremacy though.

It's a conscious choice for most Americans, and to be clear, one doesn't have to dedicate their lives to fighting oppression and injustice to be doing their fair share. In fact, simply not actively reinforcing white supremacy would be more than many here have been able to muster.

To your point of people having a lot to deal with, black people have all of the same problems, plus the overarching white supremacy they have no choice but to deal with even if it's too hard for white people to deal with. So the requests for better calls for an end to white supremacy seem even more absurd under such an interpretation.

On June 07 2017 08:10 KwarK wrote:

My argument was that my passive consent to the status quo makes me complicit in the continuation of that status quo. So I won't argue that I'm not, we're agreeing there. As for why the time I've spent in this country matters, I've had less opportunity to shape it than someone born in 1997. It's not my country, I've had no impact on the culture here. Someone born in 1997 could have voted last year, I could not.

On June 07 2017 08:14 Uldridge wrote:

What do you mean when you say "I called out your ableism", because that somehow seems some kind of inherent guilt associated with it. I don't feel like being inherently advantaged in one way or another should be a thing. If you can do something about an acquired advantage that shouldn't be there, I completely understand fighting for leveling the playing field.

You're doing it again, pulling the conversation to a narrative of: but POC have it worse!
I'm not arguing this, I'm arguing that arguably people aren't simply able to care or don't want to care because they're busy with raising their children, taking care of a crippling disease/disability, or trying to think of how to make ends meet so they can fucking eat.