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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
March 18 2017 05:37 GMT
#142881
On March 18 2017 13:56 Nevuk wrote:
At least as of yesterday where I live in Trump country (Kentucky) my coworkers aren't really dismayed, they're just playing Rush Limbaugh at ever increasing volumes.


did they at least realize that the health care system they use is part of the Affordable Care act by now?
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
March 18 2017 05:48 GMT
#142882
On March 18 2017 14:37 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2017 13:56 Nevuk wrote:
At least as of yesterday where I live in Trump country (Kentucky) my coworkers aren't really dismayed, they're just playing Rush Limbaugh at ever increasing volumes.


did they at least realize that the health care system they use is part of the Affordable Care act by now?

Not everyone
NASHVILLE — Soon after Charla McComic’s son lost his job, his health-insurance premium dropped from $567 per month to just $88, a “blessing from God” that she believes was made possible by President Trump.

“I think it was just because of the tax credit,” said McComic, 52, a former first-grade teacher who traveled to Trump’s Wednesday night rally in Nashville from Lexington, Tenn., with her daughter, mother, aunt and cousin.

The price change was actually thanks to a subsidy made possible by former president Barack Obama’s Affordable Care Act, which is still in place, not by the tax credits proposed by Republicans as part of the health-care bill still being considered by Congress.

It has been difficult for many Americans to keep up with the changes brought by Obamacare and exactly how the Republican proposal, if enacted, would affect their lives. But for Trump’s most dedicated supporters, it’s simply easier to trust the president is making things better and will follow through on his promise to provide “insurance for everybody” and “great health care for a fraction of the price.”

McComic said she’s not worried about her disability benefits changing or her 3-year-old granddaughter getting kicked off Medicaid or her 33-year-old son’s premiums going up.

“So far, everything’s been positive, from what I can tell,” she said, waiting for Trump’s rally here to begin Wednesday night. “I just hope that more and more people and children get covered under this new health-care plan.”
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
March 18 2017 05:57 GMT
#142883
On March 18 2017 14:37 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2017 13:56 Nevuk wrote:
At least as of yesterday where I live in Trump country (Kentucky) my coworkers aren't really dismayed, they're just playing Rush Limbaugh at ever increasing volumes.

thi
did they at least realize that the health care system they use is part of the Affordable Care act by now?

They're on medicare so I don't think they really care about the ACA
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
March 18 2017 06:17 GMT
#142884
On March 18 2017 14:57 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2017 14:37 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
On March 18 2017 13:56 Nevuk wrote:
At least as of yesterday where I live in Trump country (Kentucky) my coworkers aren't really dismayed, they're just playing Rush Limbaugh at ever increasing volumes.

thi
did they at least realize that the health care system they use is part of the Affordable Care act by now?

They're on medicare so I don't think they really care about the ACA


oh k. I read some article that there was a specific program in kentucky health care that people didn't realise was part of the affordable care act. but if their all on medicare guess that wouldn't apply to them
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Maenander
Profile Joined November 2002
Germany4926 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-18 06:35:57
March 18 2017 06:31 GMT
#142885
On March 18 2017 14:04 a_flayer wrote:
How about European countries collectively lead Europe, the US leads the US, Russia leads Russia, the African Union leads Africa, people in the Middle East find a way to get along... Why would any one nation have to be the dominant "leader" nation of anything besides itself, let alone the world? Lets move away from this ridiculous notion, for crying out loud.

The "Germany is dominating the EU"-meme really gets on my nerves. Germany is the most populous country in the EU, so of course it should have more influence than other countries in the EU. That doesn't mean that the other countries are dominated by Germany, it's not like Germany has enough influence to be able to achieve anything on its own in the EU: In reality, Germany has less of a voice in the political institutions of the EU than its population numbers would suggest.

For example, the ECB has gone to zero interest rates despite the protestations of the German representants. That was one of the most important economic decisions in recent times and Germany just got overruled. That doesn't look like dominance to me.

Sure, Germany was sent to the fore to handle the Greek debt crisis. Why? Because it was an unpleasant business and no one wanted to pay for it. What dominance!

But even when every member of the EU except Poland votes to re-elect Tusk as President of the European Council, Kaczynski comes up with something like "The (EU) is an organisation dominated by one country. We cannot hide this, this country is Germany."

Germany is not dominating the EU. Others are hiding behind Germany whenever it is politically convenient.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45276 Posts
March 18 2017 06:48 GMT
#142886
On March 18 2017 15:17 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2017 14:57 Nevuk wrote:
On March 18 2017 14:37 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
On March 18 2017 13:56 Nevuk wrote:
At least as of yesterday where I live in Trump country (Kentucky) my coworkers aren't really dismayed, they're just playing Rush Limbaugh at ever increasing volumes.

thi
did they at least realize that the health care system they use is part of the Affordable Care act by now?

They're on medicare so I don't think they really care about the ACA


oh k. I read some article that there was a specific program in kentucky health care that people didn't realise was part of the affordable care act. but if their all on medicare guess that wouldn't apply to them


I think it's called KYnect or something, because abbreviation puns are clever.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 18 2017 06:57 GMT
#142887
On March 18 2017 05:05 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2017 04:53 Danglars wrote:
On March 18 2017 04:32 KwarK wrote:
On March 18 2017 04:30 zlefin wrote:
On March 18 2017 04:25 Danglars wrote:
Donna Brazil finally owns up to her part in the debate question leaks. Time article.

could you specify and/or quote the part involved? I glanced through the link and most of it wasn't on that.

among the many things I did in my role as a Democratic operative and D.N.C. Vice Chair prior to assuming the interim D.N.C. Chair position was to share potential town hall topics with the Clinton campaign..... But sending those emails was a mistake I will forever regret.

I suspect getting caught is what she actually regrets. If I had been given the opportunity to potentially shift the course of the election in Clinton's favour I probably would have done it too, and with a clean conscience. Too many people will suffer under the Trump regime to do otherwise. But she intervened incompetently, and probably ended up actually hurting Clinton by getting caught.

Reading between the lines, sure you can argue the only thing she regrets is the truth got out. It was a pretty transparent affair of an election, between all the lies found out and leaks/hacks bringing out the truth. You got a full understanding of just the kind of man Trump was and just the kind of woman Clinton was, despite radically different efforts to portray something else.

Also, what a dangerous justification based on future suffering. I'm no longer surprised by this line of ethical argument, but damn do y'all deserve Trump and more.

Is there a conceivable democratic outcome so bad in an election so filled with intervention that you would be willing to give it one more nudge for the common good? If so, we simply disagree over our interpretations of Trump. If not, 1933 Germany?

Obviously Trump isn't Hitler but if you agree that there is a justifiable scenario then at that point our only difference is interpretations of scenarios.

Is the common good really your point if you're undermining institutions to pretend to gain it? If I thought he could appoint himself president for life from his own steam and dissolve the legislature, you'd have a point. But please, don't abandon your morality and ethics because you deign to have few ethical considerations. It just cheapens the investigation. You can do immense and lasting damage beyond Trump with staged debates, vote fraud, and the like. Have a more thorough understanding of history and don't break the system to affect to save the system.

On March 18 2017 13:56 Nevuk wrote:
At least as of yesterday where I live in Trump country (Kentucky) my coworkers aren't really dismayed, they're just playing Rush Limbaugh at ever increasing volumes.

Every other news story, it seems everyone is getting dismayed about nonsense, and aren't willing to accept any other conclusions than it's all Limbaugh's fault or whatever's is that week's favorite response. I can totally believe the sangfroid from this group and it might even be proper until outrage inc calms down for two seconds and does some inventory. Like, show that your compasses actually work so we can separate the fake from the news.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
March 18 2017 07:53 GMT
#142888
On March 18 2017 15:31 Maenander wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2017 14:04 a_flayer wrote:
How about European countries collectively lead Europe, the US leads the US, Russia leads Russia, the African Union leads Africa, people in the Middle East find a way to get along... Why would any one nation have to be the dominant "leader" nation of anything besides itself, let alone the world? Lets move away from this ridiculous notion, for crying out loud.

The "Germany is dominating the EU"-meme really gets on my nerves. Germany is the most populous country in the EU, so of course it should have more influence than other countries in the EU. That doesn't mean that the other countries are dominated by Germany, it's not like Germany has enough influence to be able to achieve anything on its own in the EU: In reality, Germany has less of a voice in the political institutions of the EU than its population numbers would suggest.

For example, the ECB has gone to zero interest rates despite the protestations of the German representants. That was one of the most important economic decisions in recent times and Germany just got overruled. That doesn't look like dominance to me.

Sure, Germany was sent to the fore to handle the Greek debt crisis. Why? Because it was an unpleasant business and no one wanted to pay for it. What dominance!

But even when every member of the EU except Poland votes to re-elect Tusk as President of the European Council, Kaczynski comes up with something like "The (EU) is an organisation dominated by one country. We cannot hide this, this country is Germany."

Germany is not dominating the EU. Others are hiding behind Germany whenever it is politically convenient.


Taking a single instance of Germany not getting its will and portraying it as a general theme is downright dishonest. Eurozone policy was dominated by Germany even when it was beyond terrible for other member states such as Greece, Italy, Spain, and Ireland. The discussion of EU, its institutions, and the influence of member states on policy is however not suited for this thread on US politics.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-18 10:29:03
March 18 2017 10:14 GMT
#142889
On March 18 2017 11:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Shit show of an Administration


lol this is wonderful, running like a well oiled machine xD

Him calling his private 200000 dollar membership golf club the southern White House is just icing on the cake. The White House is the house of the people, I guess he doesn't feel comfortable there so he keeps going to his House of the Obscenely Rich every week.

Like how is Florida a convenient location
Neosteel Enthusiast
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 18 2017 11:01 GMT
#142890
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
March 18 2017 11:40 GMT
#142891
On March 18 2017 20:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/brianklaas/status/843045457521754112

LOL it's super over the top satirical as well.

"Environmental Protection Agency: We absolutely do not need this. Clean rivers and breathable air are making us SOFT and letting the Chinese and the Russians get the jump on us. We must go back to the America that was great, when the air was full of coal and danger and the way you could tell if the air was breathable was by carrying a canary around with you at all times, perched on your leathery, coal-dust-covered finger. Furthermore, we will cut funding to Superfund cleanup in the EPA because the only thing manlier than clean water is DIRTY water.

Agriculture Department: NO MORE OF THIS NAMBY-PAMBY “GATHERING” NONSENSE. We will be HUNTERS again. This is also why we are cutting the Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children: Let them FIGHT for their meat or have NONE."
Neosteel Enthusiast
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7971 Posts
March 18 2017 11:56 GMT
#142892
t-t-t linking without even reading..

That akward moment when the US politics megathreads suddenly have higher standards than the people it discusses.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
March 18 2017 12:16 GMT
#142893
On March 18 2017 12:28 Ghostcom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2017 11:06 m4ini wrote:
On March 18 2017 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:
Its going to be very interesting to see if Trump's perspectives on trade and military independence ends up making Germany a world super power again. As an American, I honestly don't think I'd mind Germany replacing the US. But I do get the distinct feeling that Merkel was able to convey to Trump the fact that Germany stands to benefit a lot from the kinds of things Trump is hoping to do.

Germany/France taking a Spartan place in Europe would be very interesting.


I doubt that very much.

Mainly, because Merkel (and most germans from what i can tell) actually don't want that. Neither do i think other countries in europe would be thrilled if germany suddenly actively "takes the wheel". There's a lot of backwards thinking in europe in that regard.

Especially countries like poland, UK (where the "why did we fight ww2 if germany is still leading europe" sentiment is extremely strong) etc would rather have a fallout than accepting that merkel isn't hitler and germans aren't nazis anymore.


Or, you know - maybe no one wants be neighbor to a superpower because superpowers tend to fuck over everything? The German-victim complex really needs to go.


That's the dumbest "excuse" in that regard i've heard so far, i think. Especially considering that i live in the UK and actually talk to people on a daily basis.

That has nothing to with victim complex, or do you think i personally feel bad for what happened under the nazis? I don't give a shit. I, and no one from my generation, has done wrong. I don't feel like a victim because some backwards morons didn't get the memo as to what year it is.

Sidenote, the "german victim complex" as you call it really looks retarded as an argument considering that every fucking time germany does something others don't like, some certain buzzwords and pictures pop up. It's not germany not letting go of the past, and trying to argue otherwise makes you an idiot - literally any media outlet proves you wrong constantly. May it be hitler merkel in greece, turkey, poland - it's not the germans trying to victimise themselves, it's exactly as i said. Other countries can't let go of the past. Feel free to quote the sentence Nicholas Ridley said which led to him resigning.

Hell, even your own country just recently came to the conclusion that we should redraw the borders in Schleswig, which didn't really go down to well anywhere. Now imagine germany would've said "we should get North Schleswig back into germany", and what international/danish reactions would've been.
On track to MA1950A.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23642 Posts
March 18 2017 12:28 GMT
#142894
Clinton: 'I'm ready to come out of the woods'

Hillary Clinton spoke at the Society of Irish Women's 19th Annual St Patrick's Day dinner in Scranton, Pa., Friday and encouraged people not to let politics divide them.

"I am ready to come out of the woods and to shine a light on what’s already happening around kitchen tables at dinners like this to help draw strength to enable everyone to keep going, that's the spirit of Scranton," she said.

The statement that she is ready to "come out of the woods" appears to allude with the viral posts of Clinton being spotted hiking in the woods near her Chappaqua, N.Y., home shortly after the election, which was also the subject of a "Saturday Night Live" skit.

It also suggests Clinton, who has remained relatively low-profile since the election, is ready to get back into the spotlight.

Earlier this week it was reported that Clinton is considering a run for New York City mayor.

This is not the first time talk of a Clinton mayoral run has circulated since the former Democratic presidential nominee's defeat last November.

A Quinnipiac University poll from January found that Clinton would beat current New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio (D) if she ran as an independent.


I just hope Hillary supporters appreciate the irony if she comes out of the woods to run against a safe 'progressive' Democrat, not in the primary, but actually against them in a general.

Months and months of "he's not a real Democrat" just to have her run as an independent against a Democrat would be so absurd I think she'll probably do it.

Source
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 18 2017 14:15 GMT
#142895
that's a mighty big if. I'd wait to see it actually happen before judging. hillary's been a long-time democrat, it seems unlikely she'd choose to run as an independent.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
March 18 2017 14:18 GMT
#142896
+ Show Spoiler +


Neosteel Enthusiast
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
March 18 2017 14:37 GMT
#142897
Donald Trump earned more than $30 million from the TV show “The Apprentice” in 2005, a huge payday that rivals the sums paid to the biggest stars on screen. That payment helps explain why Trump made a large federal income-tax payment that year, as revealed in the recently leaked tax documents that shed new light on Trump’s income and wealth.

Yahoo Finance has obtained financial data for “The Apprentice,” the reality show that first aired on NBC in 2004, showing costs, profits and payouts from 2004 through 2007, which were peak years in ratings and profits for the show. During that time, Trump, now president, earned $65 million in “participations,” which are like royalty payments based on the amount of revenue the show took in for product placements and international distribution. Trump earned millions more in salary during that time, for total earnings during those 4 years that likely neared or exceeded $100 million, or $25 million per year, on average.


Yahoo
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23642 Posts
March 18 2017 14:43 GMT
#142898
On March 18 2017 23:15 zlefin wrote:
that's a mighty big if. I'd wait to see it actually happen before judging. hillary's been a long-time democrat, it seems unlikely she'd choose to run as an independent.


I mean we don't have to wait for her to do it to judge what it would mean if she did, but we can't ascribe it to her resume until she's done it.

The primary is on Nov 7th 2017 so I don't think she's running in that, but she hasn't done anything to squash the rumors about her running for mayor.

While I'd understand why she would want to primary someone like DeBlasio, it would undermine the whole "don't primary Joe Manchin" thing the establishment has been pushing.

I don't think it was a coincidence she was in Scranton, PA either.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-18 14:58:08
March 18 2017 14:57 GMT
#142899
I don't think your point re: manchin applies.
the point of don't primary joe manchin isn't that one generically shouldn't primary; but that you shouldn't push someone in a primary who, while more compatible with the party at large, won't be able to win the general in that location. i.e. if it's a very right-leaning district, you need a centrist or right-leaning dem in order to win. primary winning with a heavy left candidate in a very right district simply means the general is lost.
nyc is a pretty liberal area, so hillary winning the primary would still be quite able to win the general, if she were to run.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23642 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-18 15:21:10
March 18 2017 15:20 GMT
#142900
On March 18 2017 23:57 zlefin wrote:
I don't think your point re: manchin applies.
the point of don't primary joe manchin isn't that one generically shouldn't primary; but that you shouldn't push someone in a primary who, while more compatible with the party at large, won't be able to win the general in that location. i.e. if it's a very right-leaning district, you need a centrist or right-leaning dem in order to win. primary winning with a heavy left candidate in a very right district simply means the general is lost.
nyc is a pretty liberal area, so hillary winning the primary would still be quite able to win the general, if she were to run.


Considering Bernie's town hall in WV I don't think the whole "you need a centrist/right leaning dem in order to win" is necessarily true. At least not the center that Hillary's wing is trying to form.

EDIT: did you agree with the rest though?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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