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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On March 05 2017 18:19 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 17:38 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 16:52 LegalLord wrote:
Times like this I wonder what a Clinton presidency would have been like. You wouldn't be typing this post because there would be a nuclear war going on. If Obama did wiretap Trump then it should be the Democrats crucifying him, not the Trump administration. Though I'm not surprised seeing how the NSA acted during his regime. For the record Nixon should have gone to jail too. Yes Hillary the war hawk. Meanwhile Trump has threatened to invade Mexico, is stepping up the language to attack Iran and announced 54 billion dollars of extra funds for the military. But remember, Hillary is the war hawk.
To be fair, some of Trumps rhetoric during the campaign was less war-like than Hillary. From leaving the Syrian government alone to reducing the escalations with Russia.
Of course, it got turned around fairly quickly when selecting Mad Dog and his anti-Iran rhetoric, and for some reason (possibly pressure from the deep state or otherwise) the statement that Crimea should be returned to Ukraine. I'm not sure what the US administrations current position on Syria is. Also the China stuff that cropped up after he was elected, but that was powered by Obama and his "pivot to Asia" as well.
And that's leaving aside the fact that Trump had always been touting the expansion of the military in size (rather than focusing on the new kind of warfare that's been cropping up) which is just stupid in all sorts of ways.
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On March 05 2017 18:28 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 18:27 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 18:19 Gorsameth wrote:On March 05 2017 17:38 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 16:52 LegalLord wrote:
Times like this I wonder what a Clinton presidency would have been like. You wouldn't be typing this post because there would be a nuclear war going on. If Obama did wiretap Trump then it should be the Democrats crucifying him, not the Trump administration. Though I'm not surprised seeing how the NSA acted during his regime. For the record Nixon should have gone to jail too. Yes Hillary the war hawk. Meanwhile Trump has threatened to invade Mexico, is stepping up the language to attack Iran and announced 54 billion dollars of extra funds for the military. But remember, Hillary is the war hawk. Except Trump hasn't done anything yet while Clinton and Obama started wars in the Middle East that have claimed over 600,000 lives. Oh no, sharp rhetoric! Trump isn't going to be getting a Nobel Peace Prize is he? Needs to bomb 8 more countries first  Which wars did they start?
Its not technically a war if congress doesn't declare am I right? I didn't start a war if the only thing I did was finance the opposition, give them the green light to start a rebellion and then arm the rebels am I right? 
Clean as a whistle.
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You are arming them for a proxy war against ISIS. Thanks to that the rebillion became a fuck tard money gangs and Assad is getting legimecy after all he did.
Same thing with Kurds. On the way to fuck up the relationship with a NATO ally by promoting a national security threat to it under "fighting ISIS".
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United States42653 Posts
On March 05 2017 18:43 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 18:28 maybenexttime wrote:On March 05 2017 18:27 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 18:19 Gorsameth wrote:On March 05 2017 17:38 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 16:52 LegalLord wrote:
Times like this I wonder what a Clinton presidency would have been like. You wouldn't be typing this post because there would be a nuclear war going on. If Obama did wiretap Trump then it should be the Democrats crucifying him, not the Trump administration. Though I'm not surprised seeing how the NSA acted during his regime. For the record Nixon should have gone to jail too. Yes Hillary the war hawk. Meanwhile Trump has threatened to invade Mexico, is stepping up the language to attack Iran and announced 54 billion dollars of extra funds for the military. But remember, Hillary is the war hawk. Except Trump hasn't done anything yet while Clinton and Obama started wars in the Middle East that have claimed over 600,000 lives. Oh no, sharp rhetoric! Trump isn't going to be getting a Nobel Peace Prize is he? Needs to bomb 8 more countries first Which wars did they start? Its not technically a war if congress doesn't declare am I right? I didn't start a war if the only thing I did was finance the opposition, give them the green light to start a rebellion and then arm the rebels am I right? Clean as a whistle.
In your world the US caused the Arab Spring, right?
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On March 05 2017 17:38 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 16:52 LegalLord wrote:
Times like this I wonder what a Clinton presidency would have been like. You wouldn't be typing this post because there would be a nuclear war going on. If Obama did wiretap Trump then it should be the Democrats crucifying him, not the Trump administration. Though I'm not surprised seeing how the NSA acted during his regime. For the record Nixon should have gone to jail too.
As much as I wish domestic surveillance was reviewed with individual liberties in mind, if a court issues a warrant for the FBI to conduct surveillance, that isn't illegal.
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These tweets really look like attempts to divert attention from the whole Russia scandal.
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On March 05 2017 19:00 warding wrote:
These tweets really look like attempts to divert attention from the whole Russia scandal.
This is exactly what I believe they are doing.
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On March 05 2017 18:43 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 18:28 maybenexttime wrote:On March 05 2017 18:27 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 18:19 Gorsameth wrote:On March 05 2017 17:38 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 16:52 LegalLord wrote:
Times like this I wonder what a Clinton presidency would have been like. You wouldn't be typing this post because there would be a nuclear war going on. If Obama did wiretap Trump then it should be the Democrats crucifying him, not the Trump administration. Though I'm not surprised seeing how the NSA acted during his regime. For the record Nixon should have gone to jail too. Yes Hillary the war hawk. Meanwhile Trump has threatened to invade Mexico, is stepping up the language to attack Iran and announced 54 billion dollars of extra funds for the military. But remember, Hillary is the war hawk. Except Trump hasn't done anything yet while Clinton and Obama started wars in the Middle East that have claimed over 600,000 lives. Oh no, sharp rhetoric! Trump isn't going to be getting a Nobel Peace Prize is he? Needs to bomb 8 more countries first Which wars did they start? Its not technically a war if congress doesn't declare am I right? I didn't start a war if the only thing I did was finance the opposition, give them the green light to start a rebellion and then arm the rebels am I right? Clean as a whistle.
No, I agree that the war in Iraq was an actual war, regardless of how it's technically called in American documents.
What I question is your assertion regarding Obama and Clinton's agency in all of this, as well as Syria. They certainly did not starts those conflicts. Where's your evidence?
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On March 05 2017 18:50 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 18:43 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 18:28 maybenexttime wrote:On March 05 2017 18:27 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 18:19 Gorsameth wrote:On March 05 2017 17:38 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 16:52 LegalLord wrote:
Times like this I wonder what a Clinton presidency would have been like. You wouldn't be typing this post because there would be a nuclear war going on. If Obama did wiretap Trump then it should be the Democrats crucifying him, not the Trump administration. Though I'm not surprised seeing how the NSA acted during his regime. For the record Nixon should have gone to jail too. Yes Hillary the war hawk. Meanwhile Trump has threatened to invade Mexico, is stepping up the language to attack Iran and announced 54 billion dollars of extra funds for the military. But remember, Hillary is the war hawk. Except Trump hasn't done anything yet while Clinton and Obama started wars in the Middle East that have claimed over 600,000 lives. Oh no, sharp rhetoric! Trump isn't going to be getting a Nobel Peace Prize is he? Needs to bomb 8 more countries first Which wars did they start? Its not technically a war if congress doesn't declare am I right? I didn't start a war if the only thing I did was finance the opposition, give them the green light to start a rebellion and then arm the rebels am I right? Clean as a whistle. In your world the US caused the Arab Spring, right?
Its called the real World, you should visit sometime. Supporting and empowering banned political organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood within his first speech in Egypt, not to mention the foreign policy titanic that followed in the ME is all on Obama.
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The US government funded Syrian opposition groups practically right from the get-go: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-secretly-backed-syrian-opposition-groups-cables-released-by-wikileaks-show/2011/04/14/AF1p9hwD_story.html?utm_term=.6f22d0f12c3a
If you add some extremist support from Saudi Arabia for the islamists and jihadi groups that were also opposing Assad, and the Iraqi pre-ISIS forces that were likely gathering on the eastern border with Iraq, Assad was essentially right that foreign forces were fuelling the protests, and the US and her allies share at least some blame for the escalations in Syria. I'm sure that Israel was involved in this as well, one way or another, considering the Syria-Iran connection.
It is unfair to pin this all of Obama though, as the Syria thing specifically started with Bush. Obama merely continued the existing policies probably because he has no backbone to bring about any change. He also did not particularly involve himself personally in the Middle East, and left ME policy to Biden. Still, as president, he rightfully took responsibility (unlike the current one who likes to blame everybody but himself). Nonetheless, it has been the standing US policy of supporting Israel and Saudi Arabia in the Middle East and as an extension of that opposing Iran and their allies that has been contributing to a lot of the troubles in the region. Not one specific president is to blame for this, but the US government of the past 30 years as a whole, possibly even further back.
And no, I don't believe that their involvement in the Middle East is out of the goodness of their hearts and desire to bring a fair democracy to the world. Somehow, I find it very hard to believe that is why they'd spend all that money on military intervention and covert activities.
CIA activities in Syria on WikipediaIn early September 2013, President Obama told U.S. Senators that the CIA had trained the first 50-man insurgent element and that they had been inserted into Syria.[42] The deployment of this unit and the supplying of weapons may be the first tangible measure of support since the U.S. stated they would begin providing assistance to the opposition. However, the CIA had been facilitating the flow of arms from Libya to Syria "for more than a year" beforehand in collaboration with "the UK, Saudi Arabia and Qatar"; "the operation was largely run out of a covert CIA annex in Benghazi." U.S. military intelligence predicted "the fall of the Assad regime would lead to chaos and, potentially, to Syria's takeover by jihadi extremists, much as was then happening in Libya."
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If you add some extremist support from Saudi Arabia for the islamists and jihadi groups that were also opposing Assad, and the Iraqi pre-ISIS forces that were likely gathering on the eastern border with Iraq, Assad was essentially right that foreign forces were fuelling the protests, and the US and her allies share at least some blame for the escalations in Syria. I'm sure that Israel was involved in this as well, one way or another, considering the Syria-Iran connection.
Nope, Protests started in March 2011. FSA started around August of the same year. Al-Nusra and ISIS came after one year. During this time, Assad was killing protesters left and right. foreign forces came in action later on with Iran backing Assad and Saudi counter backing and ISIS rising making US traning FSA and Kurds to fight ISIS for a proxy war and so on.
2011 and most of 2012, it was pure rebellion against Assad with no foregin interaction.
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On March 05 2017 19:00 warding wrote:
These tweets really look like attempts to divert attention from the whole Russia scandal.
The problem with Trump is that all he does is project. So all he's done is make himself look even more guilty, except to his die hard supporters who still believe that Hillary Clinton runs a child prostitution ring under a pizza restaurant, because there are only really three answers to his wire tap claim:
- He read something on Breitbart and is simply regurgitating it like your elderly relative who listens to too much news radio. This is unfortunately fairly likely considering a significant amount of his unfounded claims come from Fox News or Breitbart.
- Obama illegally wire tapped him. Which in this case, is a very serious allegation and he has to put up the proof that lead him to this conclusion.
- The government applied for a FISA warrant and got it through. Considering you've got non-discrete goons like Lewandowski and Manafort living in Trump Tower and literally everyone in Trump's inner circle having some connection with Russia, getting a FISA warrant approved doesn't seem particularly difficult really.
The only way he actually divert attention from this mess if #2 is true and he somehow puts up indisputable proof that Obama personally approved an illegal wire tap. If its #1, he still looks guilty as fuck because most people know by now that all he does is project. If its #3, all it proves is that he's a shady enough person to justify a wiretap.
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On March 05 2017 20:19 Wrath wrote:Show nested quote +If you add some extremist support from Saudi Arabia for the islamists and jihadi groups that were also opposing Assad, and the Iraqi pre-ISIS forces that were likely gathering on the eastern border with Iraq, Assad was essentially right that foreign forces were fuelling the protests, and the US and her allies share at least some blame for the escalations in Syria. I'm sure that Israel was involved in this as well, one way or another, considering the Syria-Iran connection.
Nope, Protests started in March 2011. FSA started around August of the same year. Al-Nusra and ISIS came after one year. During this time, Assad was killing protesters left and right. foreign forces came in action later on with Iran backing Assad and Saudi counter backing and ISIS rising making US traning FSA and Kurds to fight ISIS for a proxy war and so on. 2011 and most of 2012, it was pure rebellion against Assad with no foregin interaction.
Read the Washington Pots article. The US supported the opposition groups and was helping the spread of anti-government propaganda long before the mass protests of 2011.
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The only part I see pre 2012/2013 is this:
Wikileaks has reported that the US government has been covertly funding the Syrian opposition since 2006.[40] Special Activities Division teams are speculated to have been deployed to Syria during the uprising to ascertain rebel groups, leadership and potential supply routes.[41]
Technically, you did not need to spread "propaganda" about Assad being a terrible leader because he was actually and Syrians lived through his reign and his father's reign. They know how Syria was being changed under their rule. Arab Spring was the chance they had to stop this maddness.
Also, what are those "opposition" pre 2011? Why this "opposition" left the people for about year dying in the streets before doing anything if it actually existed other than what Syrians call it "The Hotels Opposition"
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On March 05 2017 17:38 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 16:52 LegalLord wrote:
Times like this I wonder what a Clinton presidency would have been like. You wouldn't be typing this post because there would be a nuclear war going on. .
What the fuck did i just read.
User was warned for this post
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On March 05 2017 21:16 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 17:38 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 16:52 LegalLord wrote:
Times like this I wonder what a Clinton presidency would have been like. You wouldn't be typing this post because there would be a nuclear war going on. . What the fuck did i just read.
Typical zeo's post.
User was warned for this post
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Yet another nationalistic shooting by somebody who doesn't even know what they're shooting at.
Police in a Seattle suburb are investigating a possible hate crime after a masked gunman shot a Sikh man after telling him to get out of the country, Kent's police chief said.
The victim, 39, suffered a non-life threatening injury. He was working on his vehicle in his driveway at around 8 p.m. local time (11 p.m. ET) Friday when he was confronted by a man and shot, Police Chief Ken Thomas said.
"Some comments were made to the effect of 'get out of our country, go back to where you're from,' and our victim was then shot," Thomas said Saturday at a news conference.
The victim described the gunman to police as a white male, around six feet tall and with a medium build. He was wearing dark clothing and was some sort of mask covered the bottom part of his face, Thomas said.
Thomas said police are investigating the shooting as a possible hate crime, and the FBI has been contacted. He said investigators believe the gunman approached on foot. The victim said he didn't know the shooter and had never seen him before, Thomas said.
The shooting in Kent comes a little more than a week after a gunman in Olathe, Kansas, allegedly told two men born in India to "get out of my country" before opening fire, killing one man and wounding two others.
Authorities have said they believe Adam Purinton, 51, fatally shot Srinivas Kuchibhotla, 32, and wounded Alok Madasani, 32, because of their ethnicity. Ian Grillot, 24, was injured while trying to protect the men, police and witnesses said.
Purinton was arrested and is jailed in lieu of $2 million bond. The FBI is investigating the deadly shooting as a hate crime.
NBC
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On March 05 2017 21:16 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 17:38 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 16:52 LegalLord wrote:
Times like this I wonder what a Clinton presidency would have been like. You wouldn't be typing this post because there would be a nuclear war going on. . What the fuck did i just read.
You just read a logical inference to what would happen if Hillary Clinton got into office with her aggressive stance toward Russia.
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Hillary wants war with Russia according to you, Trump (or at least Bannon) have officially claimed that they want war with China in the next couple years. I'm not sure how that's supposed to make Trump better...
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On March 05 2017 23:30 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 21:16 Luolis wrote:On March 05 2017 17:38 zeo wrote:On March 05 2017 16:52 LegalLord wrote:
Times like this I wonder what a Clinton presidency would have been like. You wouldn't be typing this post because there would be a nuclear war going on. . What the fuck did i just read. You just read a logical inference to what would happen if Hillary Clinton got into office with her aggressive stance toward Russia.
Yes, we are so lucky to be saved by Trump. He really knows what he's talking about.
You know what uranium is, right? It’s this thing called nuclear weapons. And other things. Like lots of things are done with uranium. Including some bad things,” - Trump
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EPT
