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On February 16 2017 04:46 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:42 biology]major wrote:On February 16 2017 04:40 Acrofales wrote:On February 16 2017 04:20 LegalLord wrote:On February 16 2017 04:15 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2017 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
if things start to get moving on impeachment or coup then it might not be so boring. just waiting for things to develop.
people who dont see trump as alarming would require quite a bit of mental energy to turn around their views. but given the likely priors involved with this happy bunch what they think has as much weight as the general consensus of the psych ward Or we could take each thing as it comes instead of fear mongering or cheering an unelected part of government taking revenge on elected leaders. I'm not a Trump fan, but this thread (and the left in general) is taking a dive off the deep end. I get a very good laugh out of seeing how the left loves the intelligence community now. Enemies before, now the bestest of friends and authorities you have to trust. You mean like the right and WikiLeaks? Exactly, hypocrisy on both sides, politics is truly a sad state of affairs. I don’t know about that. Wikileaks has no oversight or checks. The CIA and NSA are firmly in control of congress. We know who works there and they can be summoned to speak before congress. We can’t do that for wikileaks. I don’t really see them as being directly comparable.
The CIA and NSA being firmly in control of congress is a bit delusional. If one agent decides to leak to the media and destroy someone, you think congress is all of a sudden going to cut funding of an entire agency?
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On February 16 2017 04:43 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country It is comments like this that convince true leftists that there's no point in reaching out to the centrists at all.
Then the moment they're convinced of this they become far left and a liability to their own cause.
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On February 16 2017 04:50 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:43 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country It is comments like this that convince true leftists that there's no point in reaching out to the centrists at all. Then the moment they're convinced of this they become far left and a liability to their own cause.
and their insistence on the fact they are "true" leftists.
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We've reached the point at which any previously hated party - Russia, the IC, Buzzfeed, random whistleblowers, and so on - can just release some compromising material on important political figures and half the country will rationalize away their own hatred of that party. What a beautiful situation.
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On February 16 2017 04:47 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:46 Plansix wrote:On February 16 2017 04:42 biology]major wrote:On February 16 2017 04:40 Acrofales wrote:On February 16 2017 04:20 LegalLord wrote:On February 16 2017 04:15 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2017 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
if things start to get moving on impeachment or coup then it might not be so boring. just waiting for things to develop.
people who dont see trump as alarming would require quite a bit of mental energy to turn around their views. but given the likely priors involved with this happy bunch what they think has as much weight as the general consensus of the psych ward Or we could take each thing as it comes instead of fear mongering or cheering an unelected part of government taking revenge on elected leaders. I'm not a Trump fan, but this thread (and the left in general) is taking a dive off the deep end. I get a very good laugh out of seeing how the left loves the intelligence community now. Enemies before, now the bestest of friends and authorities you have to trust. You mean like the right and WikiLeaks? Exactly, hypocrisy on both sides, politics is truly a sad state of affairs. I don’t know about that. Wikileaks has no oversight or checks. The CIA and NSA are firmly in control of congress. We know who works there and they can be summoned to speak before congress. We can’t do that for wikileaks. I don’t really see them as being directly comparable. The CIA and NSA being firmly in control of congress is a bit delusional. If one agent decides to leak to the media and destroy someone, you think congress is all of a sudden going to cut funding of an entire agency?
Because the people in the CIA and NSA have jobs and homes and lives. They live in this country. If they attack a member of congress, the rest of congress will handle it because they know they could be next. They don’t cut funding, but they will limit the power of the agency. This has happened before in the US. Just not in our life time.
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On February 16 2017 04:50 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:43 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country It is comments like this that convince true leftists that there's no point in reaching out to the centrists at all. Then the moment they're convinced of this they become far left and a liability to their own cause.
Ah yes, the true key to neo liberal victory stragies: suppressing your own vote.
The more I see neoliberals refuse any and all culpability for getting Trump elected the more convinced I am that his victory was probably the best outcome for anyone except a very specific group of people in the long run. A Clinton win would have dragged the country even further right, while Trump is accidentally reversing long term economic trends of both parties.
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United States43877 Posts
On February 16 2017 04:52 LegalLord wrote:
We've reached the point at which any previously hated party - Russia, the IC, Buzzfeed, random whistleblowers, and so on - can just release some compromising material on important political figures and half the country will rationalize away their own hatred of that party. What a beautiful situation.
Are you not at all worried that the important political figures are compromised?
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On February 16 2017 04:57 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:52 LegalLord wrote:
We've reached the point at which any previously hated party - Russia, the IC, Buzzfeed, random whistleblowers, and so on - can just release some compromising material on important political figures and half the country will rationalize away their own hatred of that party. What a beautiful situation. Are you not at all worried that the important political figures are compromised?
The point at which that actually mattered has long since passed. Starting June 2016.
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On February 16 2017 04:57 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:52 LegalLord wrote:
We've reached the point at which any previously hated party - Russia, the IC, Buzzfeed, random whistleblowers, and so on - can just release some compromising material on important political figures and half the country will rationalize away their own hatred of that party. What a beautiful situation. Are you not at all worried that the important political figures are compromised?
It has more to do with the fact that we don't have all the answers. ofcourse people are worried that political figures are compromised, but at the same time trusting these leaks blindly when they could be politically motivated is also a misstep. We need more information to come to that conclusion, why don't these leakers just release the transcripts? Is it because the nature of the conversations are benign and will shift the narrative? Do they not have the transcripts?
If they do have transcripts of Flynn's tapped conversation, are they not leaking that portion because it is difficult to release that information? Or is it a selective use of information to build a narrative?
When dealing with leaks its just better to be super skeptical, including when wikileaks was destroying clinton.
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On February 16 2017 04:55 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:50 Sermokala wrote:On February 16 2017 04:43 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country It is comments like this that convince true leftists that there's no point in reaching out to the centrists at all. Then the moment they're convinced of this they become far left and a liability to their own cause. Ah yes, the true key to neo liberal victory stragies: suppressing your own vote. The more I see neoliberals refuse any and all culpability for getting Trump elected the more convinced I am that his victory was probably the best outcome for anyone except a very specific group of people in the long run. A Clinton win would have dragged the country even further right, while Trump is accidentally reversing long term economic trends of both parties.
Bro I'm a republican. Politics 101 is being willing to compromise your ideology for power. Doesn't matter if it's giving pompey leave to campaign in Iberia or making a deal to keep environmentalists and coal miners happy.
Important figures have been compromised for the entirety of the Republic Jefferson called slavery a henious blot but tolerated it to keep the south from going back to england.
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On February 16 2017 04:59 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:57 KwarK wrote:On February 16 2017 04:52 LegalLord wrote:
We've reached the point at which any previously hated party - Russia, the IC, Buzzfeed, random whistleblowers, and so on - can just release some compromising material on important political figures and half the country will rationalize away their own hatred of that party. What a beautiful situation. Are you not at all worried that the important political figures are compromised? It has more to do with the fact that we don't have all the answers. ofcourse people are worried that political figures are compromised, but at the same time trusting these leaks blindly when they could be politically motivated is also a misstep. We need more information to come to that conclusion, why don't these leakers just release the transcripts? Is it because the nature of the conversations are benign and will shift the narrative? Do they not have the transcripts?
They don’t have the transcripts. The NPR politics podcast had a live show on Friday where one of them said “Send me the transcripts of those calls” if you have them. Email me and I’ll send you my PO Box.
I am sure they would love them, but no one has leaked that yet.
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On February 16 2017 04:59 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:57 KwarK wrote:On February 16 2017 04:52 LegalLord wrote:
We've reached the point at which any previously hated party - Russia, the IC, Buzzfeed, random whistleblowers, and so on - can just release some compromising material on important political figures and half the country will rationalize away their own hatred of that party. What a beautiful situation. Are you not at all worried that the important political figures are compromised? It has more to do with the fact that we don't have all the answers. ofcourse people are worried that political figures are compromised, but at the same time trusting these leaks blindly when they could be politically motivated is also a misstep. We need more information to come to that conclusion, why don't these leakers just release the transcripts? Is it because the nature of the conversations are benign and will shift the narrative? Do they not have the transcripts?
And yet the GOP came out saying that Flynn is now gone and there is no need at all to investigate and that we should all quickly forget about this.
Considering the information that we do know there is cause for an investigation.
Just like there was cause to investigate Benghazi or Clinton's email servers. And when the investigation finds that all that happened was some discussions about the weather then there is nothing to worry about (aside from Flynn lying to Pence and Trump knowing about it).
What worries people is that there are serious allegations about top US officials potentially being compromised and the governments reaction is to make us all look the other way. That sends off a lot of alarms bells. Are they trying to hide a real scandal?
The easiest way to make the current scandal go away is to order a full investigation and then be silent while its conducted. But that only works if nothing happened.
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On February 16 2017 05:01 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:55 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:50 Sermokala wrote:On February 16 2017 04:43 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country It is comments like this that convince true leftists that there's no point in reaching out to the centrists at all. Then the moment they're convinced of this they become far left and a liability to their own cause. Ah yes, the true key to neo liberal victory stragies: suppressing your own vote. The more I see neoliberals refuse any and all culpability for getting Trump elected the more convinced I am that his victory was probably the best outcome for anyone except a very specific group of people in the long run. A Clinton win would have dragged the country even further right, while Trump is accidentally reversing long term economic trends of both parties. Bro I'm a republican. Politics 101 is being willing to compromise your ideology for power. Doesn't matter if it's giving pompey leave to campaign in Iberia or making a deal to keep environmentalists and coal miners happy. Important figures have been compromised for the entirety of the Republic Jefferson called slavery a henious blot but tolerated it to keep the south from going back to england.
Problem is that the "center left" Clinton crowd isn't any better at compromise.
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On February 16 2017 05:07 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 05:01 Sermokala wrote:On February 16 2017 04:55 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:50 Sermokala wrote:On February 16 2017 04:43 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country It is comments like this that convince true leftists that there's no point in reaching out to the centrists at all. Then the moment they're convinced of this they become far left and a liability to their own cause. Ah yes, the true key to neo liberal victory stragies: suppressing your own vote. The more I see neoliberals refuse any and all culpability for getting Trump elected the more convinced I am that his victory was probably the best outcome for anyone except a very specific group of people in the long run. A Clinton win would have dragged the country even further right, while Trump is accidentally reversing long term economic trends of both parties. Bro I'm a republican. Politics 101 is being willing to compromise your ideology for power. Doesn't matter if it's giving pompey leave to campaign in Iberia or making a deal to keep environmentalists and coal miners happy. Important figures have been compromised for the entirety of the Republic Jefferson called slavery a henious blot but tolerated it to keep the south from going back to england. Problem is that the "center left" Clinton crowd isn't any better at compromise.
You continue to be the Aaron Burr of this thread. I have no idea what you stand for, but you are against many things.
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On February 16 2017 05:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 05:07 LegalLord wrote:On February 16 2017 05:01 Sermokala wrote:On February 16 2017 04:55 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:50 Sermokala wrote:On February 16 2017 04:43 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country It is comments like this that convince true leftists that there's no point in reaching out to the centrists at all. Then the moment they're convinced of this they become far left and a liability to their own cause. Ah yes, the true key to neo liberal victory stragies: suppressing your own vote. The more I see neoliberals refuse any and all culpability for getting Trump elected the more convinced I am that his victory was probably the best outcome for anyone except a very specific group of people in the long run. A Clinton win would have dragged the country even further right, while Trump is accidentally reversing long term economic trends of both parties. Bro I'm a republican. Politics 101 is being willing to compromise your ideology for power. Doesn't matter if it's giving pompey leave to campaign in Iberia or making a deal to keep environmentalists and coal miners happy. Important figures have been compromised for the entirety of the Republic Jefferson called slavery a henious blot but tolerated it to keep the south from going back to england. Problem is that the "center left" Clinton crowd isn't any better at compromise. You continue to be the Aaron Burr of this thread. I have no idea what you stand for, but you are against many things.
oh come on now, at least he didnt shoot hamilton.
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On February 16 2017 05:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 05:07 LegalLord wrote:On February 16 2017 05:01 Sermokala wrote:On February 16 2017 04:55 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:50 Sermokala wrote:On February 16 2017 04:43 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country It is comments like this that convince true leftists that there's no point in reaching out to the centrists at all. Then the moment they're convinced of this they become far left and a liability to their own cause. Ah yes, the true key to neo liberal victory stragies: suppressing your own vote. The more I see neoliberals refuse any and all culpability for getting Trump elected the more convinced I am that his victory was probably the best outcome for anyone except a very specific group of people in the long run. A Clinton win would have dragged the country even further right, while Trump is accidentally reversing long term economic trends of both parties. Bro I'm a republican. Politics 101 is being willing to compromise your ideology for power. Doesn't matter if it's giving pompey leave to campaign in Iberia or making a deal to keep environmentalists and coal miners happy. Important figures have been compromised for the entirety of the Republic Jefferson called slavery a henious blot but tolerated it to keep the south from going back to england. Problem is that the "center left" Clinton crowd isn't any better at compromise. You continue to be the Aaron Burr of this thread. I have no idea what you stand for, but you are against many things.
I see the past three months of Trump-induced exile have not done much good for seeing things with a fresh outlook.
If you want an answer to that, you could ask nicely with specific questions.
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On February 16 2017 05:06 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:59 biology]major wrote:On February 16 2017 04:57 KwarK wrote:On February 16 2017 04:52 LegalLord wrote:
We've reached the point at which any previously hated party - Russia, the IC, Buzzfeed, random whistleblowers, and so on - can just release some compromising material on important political figures and half the country will rationalize away their own hatred of that party. What a beautiful situation. Are you not at all worried that the important political figures are compromised? It has more to do with the fact that we don't have all the answers. ofcourse people are worried that political figures are compromised, but at the same time trusting these leaks blindly when they could be politically motivated is also a misstep. We need more information to come to that conclusion, why don't these leakers just release the transcripts? Is it because the nature of the conversations are benign and will shift the narrative? Do they not have the transcripts? And yet the GOP came out saying that Flynn is now gone and there is no need at all to investigate and that we should all quickly forget about this. Considering the information that we do know there is cause for an investigation. Just like there was cause to investigate Benghazi or Clinton's email servers. And when the investigation finds that all that happened was some discussions about the weather then there is nothing to worry about (aside from Flynn lying to Pence and Trump knowing about it). What worries people is that there are serious allegations about top US officials potentially being compromised and the governments reaction is to make us all look the other way. That sends off a lot of alarms bells. Are they trying to hide a real scandal? The easiest way to make the current scandal go away is to order a full investigation and then be silent while its conducted. But that only works if nothing happened.
So you're saying GOP investigations into Clintons emails and benghazi was justified now?
Investigations take months and might not turn up anything and there isn't any hard proof of impropriety that can be credited to anyone. Unnamed sources are enough to ask questions but they aren't enough to start investigations over.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
im not some sort of chief negotiator for leftist causes. i dont care if a few far leftists get mad by reading my posts. it is just that when reality presents a truly hilarious situation it is okay to laugh about it.
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On February 16 2017 05:14 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 05:12 Plansix wrote:On February 16 2017 05:07 LegalLord wrote:On February 16 2017 05:01 Sermokala wrote:On February 16 2017 04:55 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:50 Sermokala wrote:On February 16 2017 04:43 Nevuk wrote:On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country It is comments like this that convince true leftists that there's no point in reaching out to the centrists at all. Then the moment they're convinced of this they become far left and a liability to their own cause. Ah yes, the true key to neo liberal victory stragies: suppressing your own vote. The more I see neoliberals refuse any and all culpability for getting Trump elected the more convinced I am that his victory was probably the best outcome for anyone except a very specific group of people in the long run. A Clinton win would have dragged the country even further right, while Trump is accidentally reversing long term economic trends of both parties. Bro I'm a republican. Politics 101 is being willing to compromise your ideology for power. Doesn't matter if it's giving pompey leave to campaign in Iberia or making a deal to keep environmentalists and coal miners happy. Important figures have been compromised for the entirety of the Republic Jefferson called slavery a henious blot but tolerated it to keep the south from going back to england. Problem is that the "center left" Clinton crowd isn't any better at compromise. You continue to be the Aaron Burr of this thread. I have no idea what you stand for, but you are against many things. I see the past three months of Trump-induced exile have not done much good for seeing things with a fresh outlook. If you want an answer to that, you could ask nicely with specific questions.
One cannot be that self righteous and be proven so very wrong without taking a 90 day ban to the face. Just keeping the universe in balance. But your Burr-ness has not changed during that time away. Just biding your time, watching the tension grow.
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On February 16 2017 05:14 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 05:06 Gorsameth wrote:On February 16 2017 04:59 biology]major wrote:On February 16 2017 04:57 KwarK wrote:On February 16 2017 04:52 LegalLord wrote:
We've reached the point at which any previously hated party - Russia, the IC, Buzzfeed, random whistleblowers, and so on - can just release some compromising material on important political figures and half the country will rationalize away their own hatred of that party. What a beautiful situation. Are you not at all worried that the important political figures are compromised? It has more to do with the fact that we don't have all the answers. ofcourse people are worried that political figures are compromised, but at the same time trusting these leaks blindly when they could be politically motivated is also a misstep. We need more information to come to that conclusion, why don't these leakers just release the transcripts? Is it because the nature of the conversations are benign and will shift the narrative? Do they not have the transcripts? And yet the GOP came out saying that Flynn is now gone and there is no need at all to investigate and that we should all quickly forget about this. Considering the information that we do know there is cause for an investigation. Just like there was cause to investigate Benghazi or Clinton's email servers. And when the investigation finds that all that happened was some discussions about the weather then there is nothing to worry about (aside from Flynn lying to Pence and Trump knowing about it). What worries people is that there are serious allegations about top US officials potentially being compromised and the governments reaction is to make us all look the other way. That sends off a lot of alarms bells. Are they trying to hide a real scandal? The easiest way to make the current scandal go away is to order a full investigation and then be silent while its conducted. But that only works if nothing happened. So you're saying GOP investigations into Clintons emails and benghazi was justified now? Investigations take months and might not turn up anything and there isn't any hard proof of impropriety that can be credited to anyone. Unnamed sources are enough to ask questions but they aren't enough to start investigations over.
4 people died in an attack on a US embassy. An investigation has always been justified. We didn't need 6 witch hunts tho.
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