|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On February 16 2017 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
if things start to get moving on impeachment or coup then it might not be so boring. just waiting for things to develop.
people who dont see trump as alarming would require quite a bit of mental energy to turn around their views. but given the likely priors involved with this happy bunch what they think has as much weight as the general consensus of the psych ward
Or we could take each thing as it comes instead of fear mongering or cheering an unelected part of government taking revenge on elected leaders.
I'm not a Trump fan, but this thread (and the left in general) is taking a dive off the deep end.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country
|
On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country
Never underestimate the power of liberals to destroy themselves.
|
On February 16 2017 04:15 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
if things start to get moving on impeachment or coup then it might not be so boring. just waiting for things to develop.
people who dont see trump as alarming would require quite a bit of mental energy to turn around their views. but given the likely priors involved with this happy bunch what they think has as much weight as the general consensus of the psych ward Or we could take each thing as it comes instead of fear mongering or cheering an unelected part of government taking revenge on elected leaders. I'm not a Trump fan, but this thread (and the left in general) is taking a dive off the deep end.
I get a very good laugh out of seeing how the left loves the intelligence community now. Enemies before, now the bestest of friends and authorities you have to trust.
|
Norway28894 Posts
On February 16 2017 03:57 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 03:53 Liquid`Drone wrote:I certainly believe that Trump would like to be dictator, but American institutions seem much too resilient for it to be an even remote possibility. And Introvert, Trump is amazing at energizing - both his base and his opposition. We'll keep on fighting him until he's out of office, be it 1, 4 or 8 years.  Fighting, yes, but with no sense of unity. What's the end game after Trump is gone?
Back to normal. And there is a sense of unity - Trump is a dangerous embarrassment and he has to go. I'm reading and hearing that from all types of sources - what is particularly inspiring is that a lot of it comes from people who used to be pretty apolitical.
I'm not expecting leftists to unite in 2024, but it also doesn't make sense that they would. I think there's a lot of merit to the notion that there's a bigger difference between a Sanders type of social(ist) democrat and a neoliberal like Clinton than the difference between a progressive neoliberal like Clinton and a more conservative neoliberal like Jeb. So if the republicans start fielding someone competent who makes sense, leftist unity is gonna dissipate. But as long as Trump is there I really believe that people will unite around whatever candidate opposes him - pre-election people weren't sure how bad it was gonna be, they thought Clinton was winning anyway, etc.. I don't see it happening again.
I mean 4 years is a long time, I don't hold much weight to my own predictions tbh, but at least how it is right now, that's how it feels. I think if there was a reelection held tomorrow, Trump would get obliterated. An acquaintance told me a story about how he was eating dinner with 3 different couples, and aside from my acquaintance and his gf, all 6 people said they actually cried on election night. Even though they were all Sanders supporters, and two of them didn't vote for Clinton. Obviously this is anecdotal, but I'm reading a lot of similar stuff from a lot of different sources.
|
On February 16 2017 04:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country Never underestimate the power of liberals to destroy themselves.
They shouldn't have risked this outcome, we couldn't afford this kind of presidency so we had to choose the most electable option afforded to us.
|
When I said that the intelligence community is the strongest branch of our government, I am curious as to how to have checks and balances on them? These leaks do provide a way for people to be maligned publicly without much due process or chance to reply. It's the same problem that Clinton had, selective exposure of unwanted truths that are used for purposes of manipulating the masses. Clinton got screwed over by Russia, but excusing these leaks because they are exposed by career professionals doesn't really cut it imo, there has to be a way to keep them accountable. This is more of a general complaint, because we don't know if these Russian communications are benign or not.
|
They were created by congress, they can be dismantled by congress. They have no ability to function without money, who which is controlled by congress. There are endless checks on those agencies.
The reason they are so powerful right now is because they are putting congress on blast for not addressing these issues about Trump.
Edit: I would also point out that Trump has been using the office of the President to attack the NYT, claiming they are failing, since he got to office. It is untrue and there is no ability for them to respond.
Trump is just getting beat at his own game.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
they were just inviting trump for some afterparties with russian models and discussing titles of a few startup firms in the cayman islands.
perfectly benign stuff
|
On February 16 2017 04:20 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 03:57 LegalLord wrote:On February 16 2017 03:53 Liquid`Drone wrote:I certainly believe that Trump would like to be dictator, but American institutions seem much too resilient for it to be an even remote possibility. And Introvert, Trump is amazing at energizing - both his base and his opposition. We'll keep on fighting him until he's out of office, be it 1, 4 or 8 years. Fighting, yes, but with no sense of unity. What's the end game after Trump is gone? Back to normal. And there is a sense of unity - Trump is a dangerous embarrassment and he has to go. I'm reading and hearing that from all types of sources - what is particularly inspiring is that a lot of it comes from people who used to be pretty apolitical. I'm not expecting leftists to unite in 2024, but it also doesn't make sense that they would. I think there's a lot of merit to the notion that there's a bigger difference between a Sanders type of social(ist) democrat and a neoliberal like Clinton than the difference between a progressive neoliberal like Clinton and a more conservative neoliberal like Jeb. So if the republicans start fielding someone competent who makes sense, leftist unity is gonna dissipate. But as long as Trump is there I really believe that people will unite around whatever candidate opposes him - pre-election people weren't sure how bad it was gonna be, they thought Clinton was winning anyway, etc.. I don't see it happening again. I mean 4 years is a long time, I don't hold much weight to my own predictions tbh, but at least how it is right now, that's how it feels. I think if there was a reelection held tomorrow, Trump would get obliterated. An acquaintance told me a story about how he was eating dinner with 3 different couples, and aside from my acquaintance and his gf, all 6 people said they actually cried on election night. Even though they were all Sanders supporters, and two of them didn't vote for Clinton. Obviously this is anecdotal, but I'm reading a lot of similar stuff from a lot of different sources.
Back to normal? What's normal at this point? A fractured left, a gaining populist right, and a partisan divide that is forever growing.
You want a Jeb Bush type of Republican running? Tough shit, he got slaughtered in a very hilarious fashion by both Trump and the voters. The right doesn't want a president like that, at all. If Trump had lost that wouldn't have changed. This has been going on for a long time.
You think people are going to finally see how dangerous Trump is and vote for some kind of centrist consensus candidate that will toe the status quo? Not happening either. Those candidates continue to be impressively unpopular. Just because leftists can agree they hate Trump doesn't mean they can agree on who will be their standard bearer. They hate each other almost as much.
And nothing changed. People saw Trump this way before his presidency started, they will see himself this way now. Democracy gave us two candidates that almost the entire country hates, and the choice made was not the one who bragged about being super electable.
Leftists want to fight Trump, but right now they're fighting each other just as hard. That's the entire reason Trump won despite being hugely unpopular.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
basically clowns to the left, jackals to the right. it is further complicated by the fact that we've got some very sensitive clowns and very craven jackals
|
On February 16 2017 04:20 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:15 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2017 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
if things start to get moving on impeachment or coup then it might not be so boring. just waiting for things to develop.
people who dont see trump as alarming would require quite a bit of mental energy to turn around their views. but given the likely priors involved with this happy bunch what they think has as much weight as the general consensus of the psych ward Or we could take each thing as it comes instead of fear mongering or cheering an unelected part of government taking revenge on elected leaders. I'm not a Trump fan, but this thread (and the left in general) is taking a dive off the deep end. I get a very good laugh out of seeing how the left loves the intelligence community now. Enemies before, now the bestest of friends and authorities you have to trust.
You mean like the right and WikiLeaks?
Let's face it. Information is power. And if the information happens to come from a source they detest, they rationalize using it anyway, and cheering that source on to keep investigating. I'd personally rather the source is the own intelligence apparatus than the source being Russian hackers dumping it on WikiLeaks.
|
On February 16 2017 04:40 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:20 LegalLord wrote:On February 16 2017 04:15 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2017 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
if things start to get moving on impeachment or coup then it might not be so boring. just waiting for things to develop.
people who dont see trump as alarming would require quite a bit of mental energy to turn around their views. but given the likely priors involved with this happy bunch what they think has as much weight as the general consensus of the psych ward Or we could take each thing as it comes instead of fear mongering or cheering an unelected part of government taking revenge on elected leaders. I'm not a Trump fan, but this thread (and the left in general) is taking a dive off the deep end. I get a very good laugh out of seeing how the left loves the intelligence community now. Enemies before, now the bestest of friends and authorities you have to trust. You mean like the right and WikiLeaks?
Exactly, hypocrisy on both sides, politics is truly a sad state of affairs.
|
Minor side news in the wake of a leadership crisis:
Netanyahu is in the US, expecting to get some support.
Energy crisis in the Ukraine. They don't have access to Donetsk coal, they don't want to buy from Russia, and they're not on good terms with Europe.
Jean-Claude Juncker had a Q&A in which he talked about Trump, says he's unfriendly to the EU, says he doesn't believe that anyone is going to follow the U.K., and just general pro-EU self-delusion.
Trump picks an Israel ambassador - Orthodox Jew who opposes the two state solution.
In response to the Crimea remarks, Russia essentially just said "nope" pretty quietly and left it at that.
|
On February 16 2017 04:40 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:20 LegalLord wrote:On February 16 2017 04:15 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2017 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
if things start to get moving on impeachment or coup then it might not be so boring. just waiting for things to develop.
people who dont see trump as alarming would require quite a bit of mental energy to turn around their views. but given the likely priors involved with this happy bunch what they think has as much weight as the general consensus of the psych ward Or we could take each thing as it comes instead of fear mongering or cheering an unelected part of government taking revenge on elected leaders. I'm not a Trump fan, but this thread (and the left in general) is taking a dive off the deep end. I get a very good laugh out of seeing how the left loves the intelligence community now. Enemies before, now the bestest of friends and authorities you have to trust. You mean like the right and WikiLeaks?
and the right and Russia.
|
On February 16 2017 04:16 oneofthem wrote:
lol the far left is busy bashing the deep state as we speak. this bunch is a lost cause. enjoy your red country
It is comments like this that convince true leftists that there's no point in reaching out to the centrists at all.
|
On February 16 2017 04:40 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:20 LegalLord wrote:On February 16 2017 04:15 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2017 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
if things start to get moving on impeachment or coup then it might not be so boring. just waiting for things to develop.
people who dont see trump as alarming would require quite a bit of mental energy to turn around their views. but given the likely priors involved with this happy bunch what they think has as much weight as the general consensus of the psych ward Or we could take each thing as it comes instead of fear mongering or cheering an unelected part of government taking revenge on elected leaders. I'm not a Trump fan, but this thread (and the left in general) is taking a dive off the deep end. I get a very good laugh out of seeing how the left loves the intelligence community now. Enemies before, now the bestest of friends and authorities you have to trust. You mean like the right and WikiLeaks?
Precisely like the right and Wikileaks. Partisanship is a beautiful thing.
|
On February 16 2017 04:42 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2017 04:40 Acrofales wrote:On February 16 2017 04:20 LegalLord wrote:On February 16 2017 04:15 Introvert wrote:On February 16 2017 04:11 oneofthem wrote:
if things start to get moving on impeachment or coup then it might not be so boring. just waiting for things to develop.
people who dont see trump as alarming would require quite a bit of mental energy to turn around their views. but given the likely priors involved with this happy bunch what they think has as much weight as the general consensus of the psych ward Or we could take each thing as it comes instead of fear mongering or cheering an unelected part of government taking revenge on elected leaders. I'm not a Trump fan, but this thread (and the left in general) is taking a dive off the deep end. I get a very good laugh out of seeing how the left loves the intelligence community now. Enemies before, now the bestest of friends and authorities you have to trust. You mean like the right and WikiLeaks? Exactly, hypocrisy on both sides, politics is truly a sad state of affairs.
I don’t know about that. Wikileaks has no oversight or checks. The CIA and NSA are firmly in control of congress. We know who works there and they can be summoned to speak before congress. We can’t do that for wikileaks.
I don’t really see them as being directly comparable.
|
Don't suppose anyone knows which 'news' group ran something about the 'deep state' in the last few days. Seen it pop up out of no where yesterday by multiple people across multiple forums.
|
This is why we need more Snowdens to remind people why it is that they don't like the intelligence folk.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
