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On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
This is a fact. Calling someone racist isn’t effective unless you want to shut down discussion. Saying “Are you are aware of the long standing history of racism in real estate law?” is more effective.
And after that, you can get a pretty clear understanding if the person it worth your time from their response.
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
Agreed. So many people have convinced themselves that the designation "racist" or "misogynist" means nothing that this strategy does not work. The thing that still floors me is that people can watch or listen to him talk and think to themselves "Yeah this guy is totally smart and rational, he would make a good leader of the free world."
Believe me, I understand hating Hillary as a candidate and I totally get the people who didn't want to vote for either one. But the level of enthusiasm with which half the country voted for Trump still floors me, and suggests that there is another motive, because his towering intellect and sensible behavior is certainly not the reason.
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
But the level of enthusiasm with which half the country voted for Trump still floors me, and suggests that there is another motive, because his towering intellect and sensible behavior is certainly not the reason.
Only about 20% of the voters perhaps voted with enthusiasm. The other portion was left with an ugly choice between two utterly terrible candidates who are both terrible and made a difficult choice to choose Trump over Clinton.
Reply All did a deep dive into another “man of the people,” Dr. John Romulus Brinkley, who mastered the power of the radio years before the government had a handle on it and pretty much swindled the entire country with fake medicine. He was terrifying, killed a lot of people and birthed the country music scene. The themes in his rise to popularity are familiar and depressing.
But it all boils down to a pretty simple concept: We all want to be saved. We love simple solutions.
I don't think people understand how much it takes for someone to abandon their own political ideology and switch from one party to another. For me, it would have to take an utterly shit republican and a great democrat to cross over. I would have voted for 08 obama over trump for instance.
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
There is something beyond strategy though. I would argue it's dangerous to abandon truth (or the seeking of truth) just because a lot of people don't care about it.
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
The thing that still floors me is that people can watch or listen to him talk and think to themselves "Yeah this guy is totally smart and rational, he would make a good leader of the free world."
But the level of enthusiasm with which half the country voted for Trump still floors me, and suggests that there is another motive, because his towering intellect and sensible behavior is certainly not the reason.
Why does no one consider the option that people voted for his policies, not his personality?
If you're an American and you think the policies of the crazy guy will help you more than the policies of the sensible lady, what are you to do?
Similarly if this poll is anything to go by: www.independent.co.uk, 61% of French people wants to put a stop to immigration from mainly Muslim countries. I'm not familiar with Macron's stance on immigration, but if he goes against Le Pen here I would not be surprised to see her win in a second round. And no, Biff, that does not mean that all Le Pen's voters are fascist, it just means they agree more with Le Pen's policies than Macron's. As pointed out already, these silly generalisations you keep posting will not prevent anyone from voting Le Pen, quite the contrary.
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
But the level of enthusiasm with which half the country voted for Trump still floors me, and suggests that there is another motive, because his towering intellect and sensible behavior is certainly not the reason.
Only about 20% of the voters perhaps voted with enthusiasm. The other portion was left with an ugly choice between two utterly terrible candidates who are both terrible and made a difficult choice to choose Trump over Clinton.
That doesn't matter. What scares me is that the other 80%, even though they weren't enthusiastic about Trump, looked at his intelligence and temperament and decided "Yeah, I'm OK with that." This isn't even getting into his policies or lack thereof. We can debate until the cows come home about immigration reform, tax codes, and national security, but I was disappointed in the amount of people who apparently don't see that he is a complete moron and a danger to us all.
He built a coalition of actual scum (the nazis and unabashed racists), uninformed working-class voters who actually think he is their champion (oops), and ruthless wealthy Republicans who would sell children into slavery if it got them a cut to the corporate tax rate (and I'm pretty conservative from a fiscal standpoint). I think the middle group there made up most of his support, especially in the states that he won with, but it's still very alarming.
EDIT: Laurens, that's exactly what I'm assuming people SHOULD do, and why I'm disappointed. A lot of people very clearly voted for his policies, even though he waffled on most of them constantly and has never held a reliable opinion in his life.
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
Agreed. So many people have convinced themselves that the designation "racist" or "misogynist" means nothing that this strategy does not work. The thing that still floors me is that people can watch or listen to him talk and think to themselves "Yeah this guy is totally smart and rational, he would make a good leader of the free world."
Believe me, I understand hating Hillary as a candidate and I totally get the people who didn't want to vote for either one. But the level of enthusiasm with which half the country voted for Trump still floors me, and suggests that there is another motive, because his towering intellect and sensible behavior is certainly not the reason.
I once commented online that I didn't join in the Woman's March and was immediately congratulated on my white penis. It was quite astonishing. I have some understanding on why people attach little value to accusations such as "racist" and "misogynist".
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
There is something beyond strategy though. I would argue it's dangerous to abandon truth (or the seeking of truth) just because a lot of people don't care about it.
People need to think critically about their goals when they break out “fascist” and “racist”. Because once you go down that road in a discussion, you can’t really go back.
On February 13 2017 22:29 Biff The Understudy wrote: Also that segment about handshakes is really disturbing. He systematically tries to pull the other person off balance.
I think Trump is a man who lives in a 0 sum world. You must win and winning means crushing the other guy. The idea that cooperation, soludarity, compassion or mutual trust might be productive seem completely out of his universe.
you mean this?
I think the awkwardness gets lost in that if nothing else. Here's the scene from CBS, with sound:
so basicly reporter asks in japanese if they can get a picture of them shaking hands, Abe translates that for Trump, they shake hands and you have all kinds of reporters asking "could you please look this way" (again in japanese) or something along those lines. So Trump is asking what that means and Abe translates it as "please look at me [is what the reporters are saying. They want to get pictures with us looking their way]". Trump understands that as Abe himself making that request and gazes at him like someone out on his first date. The pause inbetween makes it even better because it really sounds like "please, look at me" and not "please look at me", so it really sounds like a request from Abe himself if you don't understand that. Abe's like "nono" points at the cameras but Trump doesn't get it and it continues for a couple second.
And then at 0:29- 0:30 you can see the face of "holy shit that was awkward"
If you replace "racist" with some generic insult like "dickhead" or "asshole" it becomes apparent why the strategy fails. That sort of label means nothing because it's just a bullying tactic, trying to strongarm someone into changing their beliefs through that kind of pressure without actually undermining why they support Trump and dislike Clinton or whatever candidate you wanted instead. This is never ever going to work, it will just breed contempt and resentment
On February 14 2017 00:29 TomatoBisque wrote: If you replace "racist" with some generic insult like "dickhead" or "asshole" it becomes apparent why the strategy fails. That sort of label means nothing because it's just a bullying tactic, trying to strongarm someone into changing their beliefs through that kind of pressure without actually undermining why they support Trump and dislike Clinton or whatever candidate you wanted instead. This is never ever going to work, it will just breed contempt and resentment
You cannot factually be a dickhead. You can factually be a racist.
On February 14 2017 00:29 TomatoBisque wrote: If you replace "racist" with some generic insult like "dickhead" or "asshole" it becomes apparent why the strategy fails. That sort of label means nothing because it's just a bullying tactic, trying to strongarm someone into changing their beliefs through that kind of pressure without actually undermining why they support Trump and dislike Clinton or whatever candidate you wanted instead. This is never ever going to work, it will just breed contempt and resentment
You cannot factually be a dickhead. You can factually be a racist.
Exactly. Just because you call someone or something “racist” does not mean that you use it as an insult, it's first and foremost a political characterization...
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
But the level of enthusiasm with which half the country voted for Trump still floors me, and suggests that there is another motive, because his towering intellect and sensible behavior is certainly not the reason.
Only about 20% of the voters perhaps voted with enthusiasm. The other portion was left with an ugly choice between two utterly terrible candidates who are both terrible and made a difficult choice to choose Trump over Clinton.
That doesn't matter. What scares me is that the other 80%, even though they weren't enthusiastic about Trump, looked at his intelligence and temperament and decided "Yeah, I'm OK with that." This isn't even getting into his policies or lack thereof. We can debate until the cows come home about immigration reform, tax codes, and national security, but I was disappointed in the amount of people who apparently don't see that he is a complete moron and a danger to us all.
No, they weren't ok with that. They simply felt that they were very much not ok with Hillary, and they had to make a difficult choice.
Let me just put it this way: when people utterly hate both candidates, they have to make a choice they won't be proud of.
Kellyanne Conway’s “Bowling Green massacre” isn’t the only case of a White House aide pointing to a terror attack that didn’t happen to make the case for President Donald Trump’s controversial executive order limiting travel from seven majority-Muslim countries.
White House press secretary Sean Spicer has repeatedly pointed to Atlanta, along with San Bernardino and Boston, as one of three U.S. cities that have been attacked by Islamist terrorists to argue that the Trump administration needed to act quickly to prevent another attack in the future.
While the Boston bombing and shootings in San Bernadino were both carried out by Islamist terrorists, neither involved foreign nationals from the seven countries in Trump’s executive order. There has never been an Islamist terror attack in Atlanta.
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
Agreed. So many people have convinced themselves that the designation "racist" or "misogynist" means nothing that this strategy does not work. The thing that still floors me is that people can watch or listen to him talk and think to themselves "Yeah this guy is totally smart and rational, he would make a good leader of the free world."
Believe me, I understand hating Hillary as a candidate and I totally get the people who didn't want to vote for either one. But the level of enthusiasm with which half the country voted for Trump still floors me, and suggests that there is another motive, because his towering intellect and sensible behavior is certainly not the reason.
I once commented online that I didn't join in the Woman's March and was immediately congratulated on my white penis. It was quite astonishing. I have some understanding on why people attach little value to accusations such as "racist" and "misogynist".
Just for the sake of discussion, were they wrong in guesstimating that you are a white male?
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
Agreed. So many people have convinced themselves that the designation "racist" or "misogynist" means nothing that this strategy does not work. The thing that still floors me is that people can watch or listen to him talk and think to themselves "Yeah this guy is totally smart and rational, he would make a good leader of the free world."
Believe me, I understand hating Hillary as a candidate and I totally get the people who didn't want to vote for either one. But the level of enthusiasm with which half the country voted for Trump still floors me, and suggests that there is another motive, because his towering intellect and sensible behavior is certainly not the reason.
I once commented online that I didn't join in the Woman's March and was immediately congratulated on my white penis. It was quite astonishing. I have some understanding on why people attach little value to accusations such as "racist" and "misogynist".
Just for the sake of discussion, were they wrong in guesstimating that you are a white male?
I would also like to know the exact wording of the post saying he did not partake in the march.
On February 13 2017 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Btw, I remember when i was a kid, that voting Le Pen was an extremely shameful thing to do in most people's mind. It basically made you a bad person.
Then appeared the idea that you really shouldn't say bad things about Le Pen voters and now it's totally ok to support fascism. Surprise, Le Pen is also at 25%.
This PC crap about not simply calling a FN voter a fascist is a strategic mistake imo.
Much like calling Trump voters racists or mysoginists, I doubt it will have the effect that you are looking for. Shame only works when the people being shamed care enough about your opinion.
Agreed. So many people have convinced themselves that the designation "racist" or "misogynist" means nothing that this strategy does not work. The thing that still floors me is that people can watch or listen to him talk and think to themselves "Yeah this guy is totally smart and rational, he would make a good leader of the free world."
Believe me, I understand hating Hillary as a candidate and I totally get the people who didn't want to vote for either one. But the level of enthusiasm with which half the country voted for Trump still floors me, and suggests that there is another motive, because his towering intellect and sensible behavior is certainly not the reason.
I once commented online that I didn't join in the Woman's March and was immediately congratulated on my white penis. It was quite astonishing. I have some understanding on why people attach little value to accusations such as "racist" and "misogynist".
Just for the sake of discussion, were they wrong in guesstimating that you are a white male?
What relevance does that have in whether or not he chose to take part in some event or other?
EPT
