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On February 01 2017 09:10 oneofthem wrote:
if trump wasn't compromised by global kleptocracy i'd give him more of a chance.
here's something he could do.
make some very public threats about pulling out of nafta/sanction china. this would get companies whose supply chains are at risk to spend some money investing in backup solutions.
let's say, have a 6 month notice.
Hasn't he already done this? Hell, he's also threatening trade war with Europe with his comments about Germany and the Euro.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 01 2017 09:11 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:10 oneofthem wrote:
if trump wasn't compromised by global kleptocracy i'd give him more of a chance.
here's something he could do.
make some very public threats about pulling out of nafta/sanction china. this would get companies whose supply chains are at risk to spend some money investing in backup solutions.
let's say, have a 6 month notice. Hasn't he already done this? Hell, he's also threatening trade war with Europe with his comments about Germany and the Euro.
to affect investment decisions he'd need to be more specific, otherwise people would just rev up the lobbyists
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On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:44 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:39 xDaunt wrote:...
This is ridiculously presumptuous. Basically you're saying "I don't agree with those people, so they're clearly idiots."
... If you're going to make this argument, it would behoove you to refer to the big bad "Left" less often. I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view.
And that is how the left views the right in this country, as should be clear. Trump is a reaction to that, as xDaunt (and others) have been saying.
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On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:44 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:39 xDaunt wrote:...
This is ridiculously presumptuous. Basically you're saying "I don't agree with those people, so they're clearly idiots."
... If you're going to make this argument, it would behoove you to refer to the big bad "Left" less often. I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view.
Actually, I've been surrounded by people who disagree with me politically my whole life, and I doubt that there's anyone around here who has been outnumbered political opinion-wise as badly and as frequently as I have been. So I am quite confident saying that I know more about coexisting with the other side (and am better at it) than most anyone. However, I do think that there are certain elements of the Left that do need to be destroyed ideologically so that they never come back again. Usually I refer to these elements as the "Regressive Left" (ie the SJW and ultra-politically correct types). I am not interested in coexisting ideologically with these people.
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On February 01 2017 09:12 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:11 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 09:10 oneofthem wrote:
if trump wasn't compromised by global kleptocracy i'd give him more of a chance.
here's something he could do.
make some very public threats about pulling out of nafta/sanction china. this would get companies whose supply chains are at risk to spend some money investing in backup solutions.
let's say, have a 6 month notice. Hasn't he already done this? Hell, he's also threatening trade war with Europe with his comments about Germany and the Euro. to affect investment decisions he'd need to be more specific, otherwise people would just rev up the lobbyists
We're already seeing manufacturers reevaluate their capital expenditures and, if not deciding to build in the US, at least studying the possibility before making the expenditure in Mexico or China.
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On February 01 2017 09:16 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:44 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:39 xDaunt wrote:...
This is ridiculously presumptuous. Basically you're saying "I don't agree with those people, so they're clearly idiots."
... If you're going to make this argument, it would behoove you to refer to the big bad "Left" less often. I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view. And that is how the left views the right in this country, as should be clear. Trump is a reaction to that, as xDaunt (and others) have been saying.
I'm not interested in having or even seeing some argument about "who started it". It would be inherently infantile.
I have a better solution: Take a good hard look at yourselves, and then be better.
(EDIT: That's not only advice to Introvert, xDaunt, and whoever shares their political leanings around here - probably everybody could benefit from it.)
EDIT:
On February 01 2017 09:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:44 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:39 xDaunt wrote:...
This is ridiculously presumptuous. Basically you're saying "I don't agree with those people, so they're clearly idiots."
... If you're going to make this argument, it would behoove you to refer to the big bad "Left" less often. I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view. Actually, I've been surrounded by people who disagree with me politically my whole life, and I doubt that there's anyone around here who has been outnumbered political opinion-wise as badly and as frequently as I have been. So I am quite confident saying that I know more about coexisting with the other side (and am better at it) than most anyone. However, I do think that there are certain elements of the Left that do need to be destroyed ideologically so that they never come back again. Usually I refer to these elements as the "Regressive Left" (ie the SJW and ultra-politically correct types). I am not interested in coexisting ideologically with these people.
Well, you now have an outside observer's opinion on how well you're doing at maintaining personal equilibrium in your opinions, as opposed to maintaining an outward facade so as to get along in day-to-day life. Do with that opinion as you will. I see no further purpose in continuing this conversation.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 01 2017 09:18 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:12 oneofthem wrote:On February 01 2017 09:11 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 09:10 oneofthem wrote:
if trump wasn't compromised by global kleptocracy i'd give him more of a chance.
here's something he could do.
make some very public threats about pulling out of nafta/sanction china. this would get companies whose supply chains are at risk to spend some money investing in backup solutions.
let's say, have a 6 month notice. Hasn't he already done this? Hell, he's also threatening trade war with Europe with his comments about Germany and the Euro. to affect investment decisions he'd need to be more specific, otherwise people would just rev up the lobbyists We're already seeing manufacturers reevaluate their capital expenditures and, if not deciding to build in the US, at least studying the possibility before making the expenditure in Mexico or China.
if you mean the few publicized 'deals', those were decisions made a long time ago. there hasn't been a sea change of the type you'd expect to see if there is a clear schedule of tariffs and such.
the kind of manufacturing relocation that would create a lot of jobs would involve supply chains, rather than the type of high value work that is already located in the u.s. basically u.s. manufacturers contract out low margin work to china etc. this part of the decision hasn't been changed.
serious talk, if trump manages to bring back jobs to the rustbelt, it'll be a monumental victory for republican politics. but i don't think he's going to do what's necessary. instead, weakening consumer protection regulations, allowing predatory practices to flourish, undercutting basic social services in education and healthcare will lead to even more damage.
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On February 01 2017 09:16 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:44 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:39 xDaunt wrote:...
This is ridiculously presumptuous. Basically you're saying "I don't agree with those people, so they're clearly idiots."
... If you're going to make this argument, it would behoove you to refer to the big bad "Left" less often. I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view. And that is how the left views the right in this country, as should be clear. Trump is a reaction to that, as xDaunt (and others) have been saying.
I don't think it's too bold of a prediction to say whatever left comes up with next, will be in large part a reaction to Trump. Thus we've gone tit for tat and the country is no closer to be united on anything other than an agreement to radically change direction every 8 years.
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On February 01 2017 09:25 Azuzu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:16 Introvert wrote:On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:44 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:39 xDaunt wrote:...
This is ridiculously presumptuous. Basically you're saying "I don't agree with those people, so they're clearly idiots."
... If you're going to make this argument, it would behoove you to refer to the big bad "Left" less often. I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view. And that is how the left views the right in this country, as should be clear. Trump is a reaction to that, as xDaunt (and others) have been saying. I don't think it's too bold of a prediction to say whatever left comes up with next, will be in large part a reaction to Trump. Thus we've gone tit for tat and the country is no closer to be united on anything other than an agreement to radically change direction every 8 years.
Like I've mentioned previously, I think that the Left's "correct" response to Trump will require some fairly dramatic changes to the playbook that they've used over the past generation or two. Given all of their doubling-down on their current strategies, I don't see the Left properly course-correcting any time soon.
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This type of obstructionism seen on both sides is why people voted for Trump in the first place. Washington DC is regarded as dysfunctional, and the democrats are feeding into that narrative. Trump has to capitalize on this and sustain that narrative that capitol hill is indeed nothing but partisan hacks.
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On February 01 2017 09:23 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:16 Introvert wrote:On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:44 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:39 xDaunt wrote:...
This is ridiculously presumptuous. Basically you're saying "I don't agree with those people, so they're clearly idiots."
... If you're going to make this argument, it would behoove you to refer to the big bad "Left" less often. I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view. And that is how the left views the right in this country, as should be clear. Trump is a reaction to that, as xDaunt (and others) have been saying. I'm not interested in having or even seeing some argument about "who started it". It would be inherently infantile. I have a better solution: Take a good hard look at yourselves, and then be better. (EDIT: That's not only advice to Introvert, xDaunt, and whoever shares their political leanings around here - probably everybody could benefit from it.)
Well let me ease your mind-- I'm not a Trump fan. I wish more Republicans would fight back against the press, but not in this way.
But moreover the advice is ridiculous. The whole point is that the right spent forever trying to follow your advice, and what did they get? People ratcheting up the -ist attacks, going after bakers, and more less being slammed from every side. It would be great it both sides could "get better" but that's not going to work when one side refuses. All you will do is lose.
On February 01 2017 09:25 Azuzu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:16 Introvert wrote:On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:44 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:39 xDaunt wrote:...
This is ridiculously presumptuous. Basically you're saying "I don't agree with those people, so they're clearly idiots."
... If you're going to make this argument, it would behoove you to refer to the big bad "Left" less often. I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view. And that is how the left views the right in this country, as should be clear. Trump is a reaction to that, as xDaunt (and others) have been saying. I don't think it's too bold of a prediction to say whatever left comes up with next, will be in large part a reaction to Trump. Thus we've gone tit for tat and the country is no closer to be united on anything other than an agreement to radically change direction every 8 years.
Sure it will, but the question is will their final plan be to double down on what got them where they are?
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On February 01 2017 09:37 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:23 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:16 Introvert wrote:On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:44 Aquanim wrote:
[quote]
If you're going to make this argument, it would behoove you to refer to the big bad "Left" less often. I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view. And that is how the left views the right in this country, as should be clear. Trump is a reaction to that, as xDaunt (and others) have been saying. I'm not interested in having or even seeing some argument about "who started it". It would be inherently infantile. I have a better solution: Take a good hard look at yourselves, and then be better. (EDIT: That's not only advice to Introvert, xDaunt, and whoever shares their political leanings around here - probably everybody could benefit from it.) Well let me ease your mind-- I'm not a Trump fan. I wish more Republicans would fight back against the press, but not in this way. But moreover the advice is ridiculous. The whole point is that the right spent forever trying to follow your advice, and what did they get? People ratcheting up the -ist attacks, going after bakers, and more less being slammed from every side. It would be great it both sides could "get better" but that's not going to work when one side refuses. All you will do is lose. Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:25 Azuzu wrote:On February 01 2017 09:16 Introvert wrote:On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:44 Aquanim wrote:
[quote]
If you're going to make this argument, it would behoove you to refer to the big bad "Left" less often. I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view. And that is how the left views the right in this country, as should be clear. Trump is a reaction to that, as xDaunt (and others) have been saying. I don't think it's too bold of a prediction to say whatever left comes up with next, will be in large part a reaction to Trump. Thus we've gone tit for tat and the country is no closer to be united on anything other than an agreement to radically change direction every 8 years. Sure it will, but the question is will their final plan be to double down on what got them where they are?
These two statements seem to contradict themselves to me; if playing nice is only a losing strategy, what do you expect the Democrats to do that isn't get nastier than Trump?
(I put aside the continued assertion as to who started playing nasty, which once again I have no interest in debating.)
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On February 01 2017 09:40 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 09:37 Introvert wrote:On February 01 2017 09:23 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:16 Introvert wrote:On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view. And that is how the left views the right in this country, as should be clear. Trump is a reaction to that, as xDaunt (and others) have been saying. I'm not interested in having or even seeing some argument about "who started it". It would be inherently infantile. I have a better solution: Take a good hard look at yourselves, and then be better. (EDIT: That's not only advice to Introvert, xDaunt, and whoever shares their political leanings around here - probably everybody could benefit from it.) Well let me ease your mind-- I'm not a Trump fan. I wish more Republicans would fight back against the press, but not in this way. But moreover the advice is ridiculous. The whole point is that the right spent forever trying to follow your advice, and what did they get? People ratcheting up the -ist attacks, going after bakers, and more less being slammed from every side. It would be great it both sides could "get better" but that's not going to work when one side refuses. All you will do is lose. On February 01 2017 09:25 Azuzu wrote:On February 01 2017 09:16 Introvert wrote:On February 01 2017 09:11 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 09:03 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:55 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:54 xDaunt wrote:On February 01 2017 08:50 Aquanim wrote:On February 01 2017 08:47 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
I use "the Left" as a description for the political opposition to my side ("the Right"). There's no further judgment associated with the tag in either my usage of it or others' usage, but I find it interesting that you think that there is one. Your assertion of that, together with a very thinly veiled accusation that it's all in my head, doesn't make it true... nor is it likely to convince anybody that it's true. Rather the opposite, actually. Would you rather I use "Liberal?" Because I've also been told that Liberal is a pejorative term. How about this. Why don't you tell me what you self-identify as and we'll see if that's a better term to use. I don't care what term you use, I'm observing that you use "Left" as a perjorative, and unless you modify yourself I expect whatever term you use to represent a related concept is going to get used as a perjorative. See, I'm interpreting what you're saying as "xDaunt must be using 'the Left' as a pejorative term because whenever he uses the term, he is expressing some form of disagreement with, or attack on, the Left." If I relentlessly criticized ostriches in thread, would you say that I was using the term "ostrich" as a pejorative? In my world, things are what they are. My usage of the Left is merely a label. I don't think you're capable of evaluating the merits of a point of view held by the "Left" or the "Right" without a bias based on which of them holds it. I don't expect you're capable of agreeing with that statement, though. To be fair, that is a fault shared to a greater or lesser degree with most people in the world. To make a similar statement from another direction, you view the "Left"-leaning people in your own country as an enemy to be defeated, not fellow citizens to coexist with, as evidenced by your sympathy for this point of view. And that is how the left views the right in this country, as should be clear. Trump is a reaction to that, as xDaunt (and others) have been saying. I don't think it's too bold of a prediction to say whatever left comes up with next, will be in large part a reaction to Trump. Thus we've gone tit for tat and the country is no closer to be united on anything other than an agreement to radically change direction every 8 years. Sure it will, but the question is will their final plan be to double down on what got them where they are? These two statements seem to contradict themselves to me; if playing nice is only a losing strategy, what do you expect the Democrats to do that isn't get nastier than Trump? (I put aside the continued assertion as to who started playing nasty, which once again I have no interest in debating.)
I would expect them to work with a non-ideological character like Trump because they can, and because what they were doing in the first place has already caused them to lose. While we sit here and wait for the inevitable* demographic wave, they are just going to continue losing, at least at the state level.
And there are (or at least were) plenty of Republicans who detest Trump, maybe if they weren't all treated like terrible human beings people would tone things down. Or maybe it's too late.
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I pretty much ignore any posts targeted at some nebulous "left" or "right", mostly because almost all of them can be summed up as "I am part of the right/left and everyone on the (opposite side) does everything wrong."
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Trump is joining Team Evil Genius.
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Doritos or cheeseburgers?
Which one to throw at the next mosque he sees?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the left is a performative thing.
do you use the word 'neoliberal' and expect people to know what you are talking about? you are the left.
are you called a 'neoliberal' by leftists? then you are no longer left.
that's the rule currently
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On February 01 2017 08:27 xDaunt wrote:Despite all of the hysterics from the Left, I think that Trump's winning on this executive order: Show nested quote +Americans are sharply divided over President Donald Trump's order to temporarily block U.S. entry for all refugees and citizens of seven Muslim countries, with slightly more approving the measure than disapproving, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll released on Tuesday.
The Jan. 30-31 poll found that 49 percent of American adults said they either "strongly" or "somewhat" agreed with Trump's order, while 41 percent "strongly" or "somewhat" disagreed and another 10 percent said they don't know.
But the responses were split almost entirely along party lines. Some 53 percent of Democrats said they "strongly disagree" with Trump's action while 51 percent of Republicans said they "strongly agree."
Trump's executive order banned refugees from entering the United States for 120 days, and it placed an indefinite hold on Syrian refugees. It also blocked citizens from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. From Reuters.
I can't help but notice the headline:
Only a third of Americans think Trump's travel ban will make them more safe
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EPT
