|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On January 29 2017 09:50 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:45 Jockmcplop wrote:On January 29 2017 09:42 biology]major wrote:
it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!" You're saying this like it wouldn't be true, and like everyone hasn't been saying that since he announced this moronic policy. I don't put the blame of a terrorist commiting crimes on anyone but the terrorist. This approach of pretending it doesn't exist (obama strategy) by not even mentioning the word islam is pure cowardice. Push it under the rug and hope for the best, ISIS will go away eventually!
You just said that you support the immigration ban; that's putting "the blame of a terrorist committing crimes" on thousands that have done nothing. Try again.
|
ISIS has been getting their asses handed to them, they are going away on their own. Trump just decided to make more of them just like Bush did. Some people never learn.
|
United Kingdom10021 Posts
On January 29 2017 09:50 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:45 Jockmcplop wrote:On January 29 2017 09:42 biology]major wrote:
it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!" You're saying this like it wouldn't be true, and like everyone hasn't been saying that since he announced this moronic policy. I don't put the blame of a terrorist commiting crimes on anyone but the terrorist. This approach of pretending it doesn't exist (obama strategy) by not even mentioning the word islam is pure cowardice. Push it under the rug and hope for the best, ISIS will go away eventually!
This policy puts the blame of terrorist attacks on entire races!
If you sacked every police officer in the country and murder rates went up, what would be your response? I blame the murderers!
Sometimes things can be seriously affected at policy level by people making stupid, rash decisions. It doesn't take away the responsibility of the individual for their actions but simply adds a layer of responsibility on the part of the people making these idiotic decisions.
Think about every US citizen in the entire country that comes from one of those 7 countries. Trump has just told all of them that they now have a choice between staying in America and seeing their families back home, at least for the next few months they won't be allowed back. Don't you think that might stir up some feelings in them? Don't you think that in a tiny minority of cases this could lead to radicalization? It seems pretty obvious to the rest of us. Trump is responsible for the consequences of his decisions.
|
On January 29 2017 09:45 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:42 biology]major wrote:
it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!" You're saying this like it wouldn't be true, and like everyone hasn't been saying that since he announced this moronic policy.
who is at fault for the terror acts in Europe the past year then?
|
On January 29 2017 09:50 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:45 Jockmcplop wrote:On January 29 2017 09:42 biology]major wrote:
it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!" You're saying this like it wouldn't be true, and like everyone hasn't been saying that since he announced this moronic policy. I don't put the blame of a terrorist commiting crimes on anyone but the terrorist. This approach of pretending it doesn't exist (obama strategy) by not even mentioning the word islam is pure cowardice. Push it under the rug and hope for the best, ISIS will go away eventually!
How much of a threat to you do you think ISIS is currently? Or has ever been?
|
United Kingdom10021 Posts
On January 29 2017 09:56 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:45 Jockmcplop wrote:On January 29 2017 09:42 biology]major wrote:
it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!" You're saying this like it wouldn't be true, and like everyone hasn't been saying that since he announced this moronic policy. who is at fault for the terror acts in Europe the past year then?
At a policy level, Merkel bears alot of the blame for her ridiculous open door policy, the mirror image of Trump's policy. This combined with EU freedom of movement rules makes security extremely difficult.
|
On January 29 2017 09:52 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:50 biology]major wrote:On January 29 2017 09:45 Jockmcplop wrote:On January 29 2017 09:42 biology]major wrote:
it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!" You're saying this like it wouldn't be true, and like everyone hasn't been saying that since he announced this moronic policy. I don't put the blame of a terrorist commiting crimes on anyone but the terrorist. This approach of pretending it doesn't exist (obama strategy) by not even mentioning the word islam is pure cowardice. Push it under the rug and hope for the best, ISIS will go away eventually! You just said that you support the immigration ban; that's putting "the blame of a terrorist committing crimes" on thousands that have done nothing. Try again.
Nope, preventing people from immigrating to the USA is not the same as convicting them for a crime or blaming them for being terrorists. It's a nation securing its interests, especially since there are many other countries that are willing to take in refugees and immigrants from that region. The same way I don't smoke even though I might never get lung cancer or any disease from smoking.The implementation of this plan was botched, in that it was done impulsively without any announcement. Either way, let me know if you would'nt blame trump when the next terrorist attack happens.
|
On January 29 2017 09:50 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:45 Jockmcplop wrote:On January 29 2017 09:42 biology]major wrote:
it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!" You're saying this like it wouldn't be true, and like everyone hasn't been saying that since he announced this moronic policy. I don't put the blame of a terrorist commiting crimes on anyone but the terrorist. This approach of pretending it doesn't exist (obama strategy) by not even mentioning the word islam is pure cowardice. Push it under the rug and hope for the best, ISIS will go away eventually!
you're just wrong.
obama strategy isn't to pretend it doesn't exist. it's quite a bit more complicated than that. and you calling it cowardice is just ridiculous levels of bias and hate, not actually giving someone a fair shake.
note your own reaction when I call you out on this. I'd assume like most people you get angry and defensive. furthermore, many people who aren't you, but are similar in belief to you, will feel that this also applies to them and feel angry and defensive.
so please don't lie and misrepresent the actual obama strategy.
|
On January 29 2017 10:01 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:52 farvacola wrote:On January 29 2017 09:50 biology]major wrote:On January 29 2017 09:45 Jockmcplop wrote:On January 29 2017 09:42 biology]major wrote:
it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!" You're saying this like it wouldn't be true, and like everyone hasn't been saying that since he announced this moronic policy. I don't put the blame of a terrorist commiting crimes on anyone but the terrorist. This approach of pretending it doesn't exist (obama strategy) by not even mentioning the word islam is pure cowardice. Push it under the rug and hope for the best, ISIS will go away eventually! You just said that you support the immigration ban; that's putting "the blame of a terrorist committing crimes" on thousands that have done nothing. Try again. Nope, preventing people from immigrating to the USA is not the same as convicting them for a crime or blaming them for being terrorists. It's a nation securing its interests, especially since there are many other countries that are willing to take in refugees and immigrants from that region. The same way I don't smoke even though I might never get lung cancer or any disease from smoking.The implementation of this plan was botched, in that it was done impulsively without any announcement. Either way, let me know if you would'nt blame trump when the next terrorist attack happens.
You of course skipped my question on how much of a threat do you consider ISIS to be.
But, regardless, the only instance of Islamic terrorism that could even come close to validating the need for Trump's offensive policies is 9/11, and naturally, 9/11 is used in Trump's executive order as the reason for his policy.
9/11. That was Al-Qaeda, based largely from Saudi Arabia. Not Afghanistan. Not Iran. Not Syria. Not Iraq... Saudi Arabia.
Guess which country isn't on Trump's list of countries banned from immigrating? More than 3/4s of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi, carrying Saudi passports, and Trump's policies do nothing that would ban their entry into our country.
Yeah, this is totally worth the logistical nightmare and diplomatic disgrace. I feel so much fucking safer.
|
On January 29 2017 09:50 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:45 Jockmcplop wrote:On January 29 2017 09:42 biology]major wrote:
it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!" You're saying this like it wouldn't be true, and like everyone hasn't been saying that since he announced this moronic policy. I don't put the blame of a terrorist commiting crimes on anyone but the terrorist. This approach of pretending it doesn't exist (obama strategy) by not even mentioning the word islam is pure cowardice. Push it under the rug and hope for the best, ISIS will go away eventually!
I find your point of view to be quite hostile and ignorant to say the least. In my opinion, the US needs to stop declaring war on nouns first it was communism then it was drugs now it is terrorism. For me, if you (like the attack in Nice, France) ram a truck into a crowd pretending it is for some greater cause you should just be charged for multiple homicide and leave it at that, the motivation behind the crime shouldn't heighten or lower the act in itself. It would stop the idea of martyrdom anyways.
I think Obama was great for the US, but I deplore the situation he found himself in (Iraq, Afghan., Syria, etc.), he deported more and ordered more drone strikes than any other President yet you Republicans act as if he was a Manchurian candidate of Islam. He wasn't scared to mention Islam he just didn't want the entire relligion of Billions of people to be blamed for the fanatics. Just as I don't believe Jews should be proud of their far right government committing atrocities in Palestine, I don't believe that Catholics are proud of the money laundering of the most corrupt bank in the world and the multiple paedophile rings; you can't say these things represent their relligions so ISIS doesn't get to be the ultimate depiction of Islam.
Don't worry, an attack in any shape or form direct or indirect will come simply because he is pissing off the entire world at the same time.
|
United Kingdom10021 Posts
On January 29 2017 10:08 MyTHicaL wrote:
Don't worry, an attack in any shape or form direct or indirect will come simply because he is pissing off the entire world at the same time.
Pissing everyone off is a part of Making America Great Again. Its America First! The subtext being 'fuck everyone else'. There is no diplomacy here, diplomacy is seen as part of the old, corrupt liberal elite way of doing things.
No, America deserves the best so lets piss everyone else off on the way and then act all confused when everyone hates America.
|
Leporello, have you considered that the sources of risk for future attacks might be different than the source of a terror attack 16 years ago, that the world might have changed in the interim? The reason I ask is SA remains a US ally and as far as I know has been on board with counterterrorism.
|
On January 29 2017 10:15 oBlade wrote:
Leporello, have you considered that the sources of risk for future attacks might be different than the source of a terror attack 16 years ago, that the world might have changed in the interim? The reason I ask is SA remains a US ally and as far as I know has been on board with counterterrorism.
Are you saying Trump's freeze on Muslim travel is an appropriate way to deal with terrorism?
|
On January 29 2017 10:15 oBlade wrote:
Leporello, have you considered that the sources of risk for future attacks might be different than the source of a terror attack 16 years ago, that the world might have changed in the interim? The reason I ask is SA remains a US ally and as far as I know has been on board with counterterrorism.
Saudi Arabia was a US ally and on board with counter terrorism in 2001 too.
|
On January 29 2017 10:15 oBlade wrote:
Leporello, have you considered that the sources of risk for future attacks might be different than the source of a terror attack 16 years ago, that the world might have changed in the interim? The reason I ask is SA remains a US ally and as far as I know has been on board with counterterrorism.
As I said, Trump's executive order uses 9/11 as the reason for its policy.
I'm not using 9/11. He is.
And he has to. Because it's the only real attack that would even come close to justifying such a policy.
ISIS, on the other hand, has never been demonstrated as an actual threat to national security.
In fact, to think ISIS is a threat to national security is kind of a joke. To think we need military partners to defeat ISIS is a joke. ISIS practically already is defeated, fighting for their lives in Syria and getting demolished.
Yes. SA is an ally. And yet, it was Saudi nationals that inflicted the greatest terrorist attack on America.
So why the fuck are we banning people from all these other countries?
However you spin this, it will never make sense. Never.
|
Trump will get a medal from ISIS. Best recruiter they ever had.
He seems to have the Midas touch. But instead of gold, everything he touches turns to shit.
|
On January 29 2017 10:21 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 10:15 oBlade wrote:
Leporello, have you considered that the sources of risk for future attacks might be different than the source of a terror attack 16 years ago, that the world might have changed in the interim? The reason I ask is SA remains a US ally and as far as I know has been on board with counterterrorism. As I said, Trump's executive order uses 9/11 as the reason for its policy. I'm not using 9/11. He is.And he has to. Because it's the only real attack that would even come close to justifying such a policy. ISIS, on the other hand, which isn't mentioned in the executive order, has never been demonstrated as an actual threat to national security. In fact, to think ISIS is a threat to national security is kind of a joke. Yes. SA is an ally. And yet, it was Saudi nationals that inflicted the greatest terrorist attack on America. So why the fuck are we banning people from all these other countries? However you spin this, it will never make sense. Never.
The true threat is beyond those executing these attacks, especially 9/11. It is the millions who see them and cheer, or feel as if those actions are justified. Do we have any idea how many sympathizers there are? If you are already in the US and sympathize with the extremism the first ammendment basically protects you, but we can prevent these people from entering in the first place.
|
On January 29 2017 10:25 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 10:21 Leporello wrote:On January 29 2017 10:15 oBlade wrote:
Leporello, have you considered that the sources of risk for future attacks might be different than the source of a terror attack 16 years ago, that the world might have changed in the interim? The reason I ask is SA remains a US ally and as far as I know has been on board with counterterrorism. As I said, Trump's executive order uses 9/11 as the reason for its policy. I'm not using 9/11. He is.And he has to. Because it's the only real attack that would even come close to justifying such a policy. ISIS, on the other hand, which isn't mentioned in the executive order, has never been demonstrated as an actual threat to national security. In fact, to think ISIS is a threat to national security is kind of a joke. Yes. SA is an ally. And yet, it was Saudi nationals that inflicted the greatest terrorist attack on America. So why the fuck are we banning people from all these other countries? However you spin this, it will never make sense. Never. The true threat is beyond those executing these attacks, especially 9/11. It is the millions who see them and cheer, or feel as if those actions are justified. Do we have any idea how many sympathizers there are?
No, and neither do you, and neither does Trump.
But what we do know, and what everyone is trying to tell you, is those sympathizers are going to increase due to Trump's policies, and due to his rhetoric.
And yet -- Trump's policies aren't actually going to do anything to prevent them from coming here! Its blanket selection of countries is nothing more than a confusing insult.
Amazing!
Trump's immigration ban succeeds in only one thing -- pissing people off... and making Canada look good.
At least he's not a "coward", amirite?
|
|
|
https://www.yahoo.com/
just look at this lol,the first 5-6 articles are all about trump.Its the first time I have seen this kind of over exposure,definitly not when Obama took office. Maybe its a new strategy from the media,putting on the pressure.
Cnn is the worst of all,they have a very nasty way of trying to influence public opinion. It was a great network 10 years ago but now it is such crap. The liberal media they still don't except that they have lost,they still don't understand why trump has won. It is kinda interesting to watch it all from a distance.
If this continues then the media will make the usa fall apart within 20 years. you can laugh about this now but I would not rule out this possibility at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
