|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Canada13379 Posts
On January 29 2017 07:52 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 07:41 Amui wrote:On January 29 2017 07:30 zlefin wrote:
It's not yet a major screwup I'd say, since it can still all be reversed quite quickly if he chooses to do so.
more like a medium screwup, maybe even small if his supporters don't mind it. Let's say you went up to go shopping in Canada for an afternoon, and left your dog at home because you fed him in the morning, and you expected to be back by evening. Do you have anybody to take care of him? Do you have to get somebody(who isn't going to be denied entry) to drive up to Canada, grab your home key, go back down and feed your dog? They're denying greencard holders from going back, people who are basically american except for citizenship. Keep in mind not everybody is going to have the ability to just sit in a hotel somewhere for a few days while they figure shit out. They have families, jobs etc. to take care of. Seems like some major chaos is going to happen, never would've thought that I'd prefer another Bush xd. Bush wasn't a racist, xenophobic prick. until someone's died or equivalent damage done I'm not going to call it a major screwup. There's plenty of time, and odds are trump wil make a MAJOR screwup, so i'd like to save the word major screwup for something bigger than this. this is trump we're talking about, we don't want to use up our best/most extreme words too early, lest trump do something worse later on.
Major isn't the worst. There are bigger words my friend.
|
We can wait before decide how badly Trump has messed up here. This is a disastrous decision and at the moment we are on day 1. Trump's administration has signalled that the ban will be extended to other countries.
If I were in the Whitehouse right now I would be trying to figure out how to get the thing revoked, not extended.
Its madness, plain and simple, and its racist.
|
On January 29 2017 07:16 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 06:55 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On January 29 2017 06:52 LegalLord wrote:On January 29 2017 05:53 pmh wrote:On January 29 2017 05:15 LegalLord wrote:On January 29 2017 04:25 NukeD wrote:On January 29 2017 04:12 radscorpion9 wrote:Cool (well at least for me) new article from the independent on China-US relations. I was hoping China wouldn't take the rhetoric of Trump too seriously, but it looks like it is. Wow...pretty dangerous stuff. China: War with US becoming practical reality That would be a suicide move for China. Their army may have the numbers, but its nowhere close to US in all other regards. The US could push China off the sea at the cost of a few carriers or so. The adage "never fight a land war in Asia" applies here but the US navy is solidly ahead of what China might be able to field to counter it on the seas. The problem is "pushing China off the sea" is an absurdly unsustainable status quo. The moment the US blinks China could come right back. I would not be this confident lol. Tbh I think atm the usa is unable to win any war against china. The war will take place on chinas territoty,taiwan or the south Chinese sea for example. What exactly can the usa do against that? Absolutely nothing to be fair,the current situation in the south Chinese sea already proves that. They can send all carriers they have but they will still be outnumbered in the air by the Chinese fighting close to the home land,as well as being in range of all their missles. Even in the 50,s of the previous century the usa didn't want to risk a war with china during the Korean war. usa moved up,china said stop and that is where the line still is today. I even doubt the quality of the hardware is better for the usa. It was a long time ago but we did export so much technology to china to make the items cheap,i honestly doubt there is much of an advantage left when it comes to the airforce. Let's not get carried away. While the US doesn't have anywhere near the kind of superiority it fancies itself to have and got owned in Iraq and Afghanistan, it would be the clear winner in a sea-based conflict in the South China Sea or in Taiwan. China has some pretty advanced missiles but that's about it. They are improving but they aren't anywhere near far enough along to fight the US at sea. Their only operational carrier right now is an old Soviet import. China's navy isn't great. They could defend the mainland easily enough but the US could kick them out of their maritime interests if it were willing to fight a war out there in the South China Sea. Except occupying the water and China waiting for us to give up and leave as we've done in past conflicts isn't really winning. Yes, that's the major problem here.
I am surprised that people genuinely think the usa could still win such a war,or at least be the dominant force. That absolutely is not the case at all I think. 10 years ago:yes,now:no. But ya,this is very speculative.
|
On January 29 2017 07:45 ZeromuS wrote:Trump's reaction to this is probably "I don't care, why would any american want to leave anyway?" Honestly, this is the kind of thing that results in major international issues. I hope to god the reasonable people in America can change course ASAP and minimize the damage already done.
The reasonable people with power over this all left because they didn't want to be ordered to do things by a lunatic and his lunatic posse.
Maybe lunatic is extreme and "insanely shortsighted" is more apt, I dunno.
|
On January 29 2017 07:51 LegalLord wrote:Meh, moving around ICBM's isn't really news. They can travel pretty far whether they're on the border or far from it.
Yeah but them publishing that escalation towards military conflict is a possiblity is news. Especially when Trump sees it and then turns things into the inevitable dick measuring contest which will result in .. I don't really know ;x
|
It sounds like the sort of plan a (bad) manager would come up with. Which then get delegated to someone competent who draws up the exact rules and wording required to avoid the many pitfalls and issues that the manager didn't think of.
Except that last part is missing and it went strait for rough concept to law.
I guess that's what happens when the State department stops working.
|
On January 28 2017 05:48 xDaunt wrote:
I don't agree with all of this, but you are right about one thing in particular: the contamination of the SJW mentality upon the way that Americans see themselves in the world. We should be a proud people. We should be nationalistic. Regardless of the wrongs that we have committed, we should apologize to no one. Democrats and others on the left always cry foul whenever their patriotism is challenged, but the unflinching truth is that those on the left have led many Americans down an irrational path of self-hatred when it comes to their nationality.
Well this is absolutely ironic isn't it. I don't think I've ever felt more ashamed of my country that I have in the past week. The revolting xenophobia that has just taken place is the tipping point. It's difficult to think of anything more un-American and un-patriotic than rejecting immigrants, even those who have been studying and working there for years, based off some Muslim boogeyman. The U.S. has never looked more weak and pathetic to me in my lifetime.
|
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast.
|
"My country can do no wrong and should never apologize" is up there with "I should kill those people for my god" for "terrible words to live by."
On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast.
This wasn't his campaign promise, he argued against a country of origin ban in favor of a religion ban directly to the American people at the debates. This (implemented reasonably as legislation similar to that used under Bush and including Saudi Arabia/UAE) was a Cruz/Paul position.
|
On January 29 2017 08:08 TheTenthDoc wrote:"My country can do no wrong and should never apologize" is up there with "I should kill those people for my god" for "terrible words to live by." Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast. This wasn't his campaign promise, he argued against a country of origin ban in favor of a religion ban. This (implemented reasonably as legislation) was a Cruz/Paul position.
Using my mind reading abilities, Trump wanted a temporary muslim ban but it is difficult to execute and would cause too much of a fuss even though it would be constitutional and legal.
|
On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast.
the US always put its own interests first anyways, and already had strict vetting systems in place. it's odd how people have this bizarre belief that the us wasn't always putting its interests first.
and him not putting SA on the list just demonstrates he's not really doing it to do the right thing.
the green card holder issue is demonstrative of what people have been saying about trump since before the election: he's incompetent at the job, regardless of ideological merit or agreement, he's just not competent for it.
|
On January 29 2017 08:11 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:08 TheTenthDoc wrote:"My country can do no wrong and should never apologize" is up there with "I should kill those people for my god" for "terrible words to live by." On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast. This wasn't his campaign promise, he argued against a country of origin ban in favor of a religion ban. This (implemented reasonably as legislation) was a Cruz/Paul position. Using my mind reading abilities, Trump wanted a temporary muslim ban but it is difficult to execute and would cause too much of a fuss even though it would be constitutional and legal.
The main problem I have with this logic is that this decision is also difficult to execute and probably illegal.
(I'm partly just extraordinarily sick of people saying this was a campaign promise of his though)
Also, in a shocking twist, Rasmussen's soaring Trump approval over his first week in office is not borne out in Gallup, where he's plummeted from +0 to -8 instead of rising from +12 to +18 as he did in Rasmussen's polling. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gallup-trump-approval-rating-falls-week-one
Furthermore, Trump's net approval fell from +18 to +10 in the course of one day in Rasmussen. Ruh-roh.
|
On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast.
The stupidity extends beyond green card holders. I know you were a proponent of the Muslim ban, but regardless of your philosophical agreement/disagreement, open your eyes and see that the current implementation is fucking stupid, and that blocking students, scientists, and others who have lived in the US for years on visas and have a high likelihood of becoming naturalized Americans that do more for our country than many native-born citizens is more damaging to US interests than it is helpful.
We had enough discussions in the past that you know this was always my biggest concern: not that he would implement policy that I disagree with, but that he would do so incompetently, irrationally, and spontaneously. This is exactly what's happening. Even if you agree conceptually with the idea of the Muslim ban, Trump has fucked up the implementation in every way possible.
On January 29 2017 08:13 zlefin wrote:
the green card holder issue is demonstrative of what people have been saying about trump since before the election: he's incompetent at the job, regardless of ideological merit or agreement, he's just not competent for it.
This. Plus the assurance that Trump supporters gave that he would surround himself with intelligent, rational people who would sort out the details on his grand ideas to assure that they'd end up refined and implemented well. Good call on that one. /s
|
On January 29 2017 08:13 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast. the US always put its own interests first anyways, and already had strict vetting systems in place. it's odd how people have this bizarre belief that the us wasn't always putting its interests first. and him not putting SA on the list just demonstrates he's not really doing it to do the right thing. the green card holder issue is demonstrative of what people have been saying about trump since before the election: he's incompetent at the job, regardless of ideological merit or agreement, he's just not competent for it.
It's a bit early but I'm starting to wonder if he will finish his term. Any Americans are thinking about this already?
|
I think at this point I'm somewhat glad whatever stupid idea Trump had for universal healthcare evaporated into the aether. It probably would have involved a blanket order to force doctors not to charge to see patients or some dumb shit like that, and probably would have set back single payer healthcare another decade.
|
On January 29 2017 08:20 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:13 zlefin wrote:On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast. the US always put its own interests first anyways, and already had strict vetting systems in place. it's odd how people have this bizarre belief that the us wasn't always putting its interests first. and him not putting SA on the list just demonstrates he's not really doing it to do the right thing. the green card holder issue is demonstrative of what people have been saying about trump since before the election: he's incompetent at the job, regardless of ideological merit or agreement, he's just not competent for it. It's a bit early but I'm starting to wonder if he will finish his term. Any Americans are thinking about this already?
some americans who really didn't like him in the first place have been thinking about it the entire time. In terms of actually getting enoug political support to remove him, it's nowhere near that yet, nor is there any significant movement toward that.
iirc the betting sites have odds on him getting impeached or otherwise not lasting through the term with a real chance; of course those can be manipulated by wishful thinking or people trying to manipulate them to look good, since some people have started using them as estimates for reality. they also fluctuate alot of course.
e.g.
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/us-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=2657726
|
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 29 2017 08:01 MyTHicaL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 07:51 LegalLord wrote:Meh, moving around ICBM's isn't really news. They can travel pretty far whether they're on the border or far from it. Yeah but them publishing that escalation towards military conflict is a possiblity is news. Especially when Trump sees it and then turns things into the inevitable dick measuring contest which will result in .. I don't really know ;x
I think that my real problem with the gesture is that it really doesn't provide any clear messaging. Placing advanced missile systems into their claims in the South China Sea would be more pointed a gesture. We already know they have ICBMs.
|
On January 29 2017 08:20 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:13 zlefin wrote:On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast. the US always put its own interests first anyways, and already had strict vetting systems in place. it's odd how people have this bizarre belief that the us wasn't always putting its interests first. and him not putting SA on the list just demonstrates he's not really doing it to do the right thing. the green card holder issue is demonstrative of what people have been saying about trump since before the election: he's incompetent at the job, regardless of ideological merit or agreement, he's just not competent for it. It's a bit early but I'm starting to wonder if he will finish his term. Any Americans are thinking about this already?
I don't foresee a reality in which he makes it through a term. At the rate things are going now I don't see how he makes it a year. A week in and he's pissing on everyone and everything in sight. 4 years? Not a chance.
|
If Trump gets impeached we have President Pence. By all means, go ahead.
|
On January 29 2017 08:28 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:20 nojok wrote:On January 29 2017 08:13 zlefin wrote:On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast. the US always put its own interests first anyways, and already had strict vetting systems in place. it's odd how people have this bizarre belief that the us wasn't always putting its interests first. and him not putting SA on the list just demonstrates he's not really doing it to do the right thing. the green card holder issue is demonstrative of what people have been saying about trump since before the election: he's incompetent at the job, regardless of ideological merit or agreement, he's just not competent for it. It's a bit early but I'm starting to wonder if he will finish his term. Any Americans are thinking about this already? I don't foresee a reality in which he makes it through a term. At the rate things are going now I don't see how he makes it a year. A week in and he's pissing on everyone and everything in sight. 4 years? Not a chance.
Even if he had a zero percent approval rating, unless he does something impeachable, he's not going anywhere
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
