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On January 29 2017 08:31 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:28 OuchyDathurts wrote:On January 29 2017 08:20 nojok wrote:On January 29 2017 08:13 zlefin wrote:On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast. the US always put its own interests first anyways, and already had strict vetting systems in place. it's odd how people have this bizarre belief that the us wasn't always putting its interests first. and him not putting SA on the list just demonstrates he's not really doing it to do the right thing. the green card holder issue is demonstrative of what people have been saying about trump since before the election: he's incompetent at the job, regardless of ideological merit or agreement, he's just not competent for it. It's a bit early but I'm starting to wonder if he will finish his term. Any Americans are thinking about this already? I don't foresee a reality in which he makes it through a term. At the rate things are going now I don't see how he makes it a year. A week in and he's pissing on everyone and everything in sight. 4 years? Not a chance. Even if he had a zero percent approval rating, unless he does something impeachable, he's not going anywhere
The main mechanism for impeachment is if continues to lie as fluidly and freely as he does in interviews and did in the debates even when testifying under oath. I don't see him as the "I don't know" testifying type, personally.
I kind of wish mental state was something that could be assessed and force a resignation, but considering how far gone Reagan was by the end I doubt it
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Impeachment is not a productive route of resistance; gumming up everything Trump does in the courts and working on '18 elections is.
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On January 29 2017 08:31 Introvert wrote:
If Trump gets impeached we have President Pence. By all means, go ahead.
I'm totally cool with that.
I think it's important for Dems to prepare for that, as it's a vital part of moving forward, and getting support for removing trump.
I may dislike pence ideologically, and disapprove of his policies, but I do consider him fit for the presidency.
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On January 29 2017 08:33 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:31 Mohdoo wrote:On January 29 2017 08:28 OuchyDathurts wrote:On January 29 2017 08:20 nojok wrote:On January 29 2017 08:13 zlefin wrote:On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast. the US always put its own interests first anyways, and already had strict vetting systems in place. it's odd how people have this bizarre belief that the us wasn't always putting its interests first. and him not putting SA on the list just demonstrates he's not really doing it to do the right thing. the green card holder issue is demonstrative of what people have been saying about trump since before the election: he's incompetent at the job, regardless of ideological merit or agreement, he's just not competent for it. It's a bit early but I'm starting to wonder if he will finish his term. Any Americans are thinking about this already? I don't foresee a reality in which he makes it through a term. At the rate things are going now I don't see how he makes it a year. A week in and he's pissing on everyone and everything in sight. 4 years? Not a chance. Even if he had a zero percent approval rating, unless he does something impeachable, he's not going anywhere The main mechanism for impeachment is if continues to lie as fluidly and freely as he does in interviews and did in the debates even when testifying under oath. I don't see him as the "I don't know" testifying type, personally. I kind of wish mental state was something that could be assessed and force a resignation, but considering how far gone Reagan was by the end I doubt it
it is possible iirc with 25th amendment to have him effectively removed from office. and pence being acting president. I don't think that lets you formally remove trump from office, it just means he woudln't have any actual power and pence would be the legal acting president. (yes I know there's an obvious joke in there)
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On January 29 2017 08:35 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:31 Introvert wrote:
If Trump gets impeached we have President Pence. By all means, go ahead. I'm totally cool with that. I think it's important for Dems to prepare for that, as it's a vital part of moving forward, and getting support for removing trump. I may dislike pence ideologically, and disapprove of his policies, but I do consider him fit for the presidency.
This, Pence is no worse than the other run of the mill Christian conservatives. Bad? Sure. But he's not unhinged from reality. Pence would suck but he's standard issue suck. Better the devil you know...
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Looks like the world jumps in for the failings of the US. First the Netherlands, now Canada.
And hey, this is even news which probably both sides will celebrate. The trumpists, because they think they won, and the rest, because there are actually some sane and good nations/people left.
e: in case it wasn't clear:
Canada offered to take all those who were trying to get to the US and bounced there now.
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Certainly hope that we're not going to see a backlash that looks like the refugee crisis in Europe if Canada does that...
One terrorist attack as the result of that policy choice and it will be a problem.
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On January 29 2017 09:01 LegalLord wrote:
Certainly hope that we're not going to see a backlash that looks like the refugee crisis in Europe if Canada does that...
One terrorist attack as the result of that policy choice and it will be a problem.
Considering everyone with a brain has been telling him for 18 months that a muslim ban literally feeds directly into ISIS' hands, and they've thanks for the recruitment help already I'd expect something to happen. Donny Trump, the greatest recruiter they've ever had and we're only a week in!
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Canada11581 Posts
On January 29 2017 09:01 LegalLord wrote:
Certainly hope that we're not going to see a backlash that looks like the refugee crisis in Europe if Canada does that...
One terrorist attack as the result of that policy choice and it will be a problem.
Canadians can be rather proud and think that we are fundamentally different than everyone else, but the reality is there is already a sizeable portion of the population that wasn't too keen on bringing in the Syrian refugees (though of course lots that were keen, given the number of private sponsorships). So I also don't think it would take much to turn Trudeau into a lonely island on this issue.
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On January 29 2017 08:53 mahrgell wrote:https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/825438460265762816Looks like the world jumps in for the failings of the US. First the Netherlands, now Canada. And hey, this is even news which probably both sides will celebrate. The trumpists, because they think they won, and the rest, because there are actually some sane and good nations/people left. e: in case it wasn't clear: Canada offered to take all those who were trying to get to the US and bounced there now.
is that really an offer for that?
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On January 29 2017 09:01 LegalLord wrote:
Certainly hope that we're not going to see a backlash that looks like the refugee crisis in Europe if Canada does that...
One terrorist attack as the result of that policy choice and it will be a problem.
Fair enough. Though a similar line of reasoning will be used when (not if) a terrorist attack happens on US soil during Trump's presidency. Fair or nor, it will be said that his policies didn't actually make us safer and that they almost certainly radicalized more people already in America towards wanting to comit violence.
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On January 29 2017 09:07 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:01 LegalLord wrote:
Certainly hope that we're not going to see a backlash that looks like the refugee crisis in Europe if Canada does that...
One terrorist attack as the result of that policy choice and it will be a problem. Canadians can be rather proud and think that we are fundamentally different than everyone else, but the reality is there is already a sizeable portion of the population that wasn't too keen on bringing in the Syrian refugees (though of course lots that were keen, given the number of private sponsorships). So I also don't think it would take much to turn Trudeau into a lonely island on this issue.
On the same side, one of his first actions on taking parliament was to push ahead with the whole 10,000 Syrian refugee thing. And while I wouldn't say it was unanimously popular decision, one year later (or even one month later) it's almost entirely a non-issue.
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On January 29 2017 09:18 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:01 LegalLord wrote:
Certainly hope that we're not going to see a backlash that looks like the refugee crisis in Europe if Canada does that...
One terrorist attack as the result of that policy choice and it will be a problem. Fair enough. Though a similar line of reasoning will be used when (not if) a terrorist attack happens on US soil during Trump's presidency. Fair or nor, it will be said that his policies didn't actually make us safer and that they almost certainly radicalized more people already in America towards wanting to comit violence.
I'm willing to bet money that you will also hear about people supporting more bans because they didn't go far enough to protect the US
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On January 29 2017 09:18 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:01 LegalLord wrote:
Certainly hope that we're not going to see a backlash that looks like the refugee crisis in Europe if Canada does that...
One terrorist attack as the result of that policy choice and it will be a problem. Fair enough. Though a similar line of reasoning will be used when (not if) a terrorist attack happens on US soil during Trump's presidency. Fair or nor, it will be said that his policies didn't actually make us safer and that they almost certainly radicalized more people already in America towards wanting to comit violence.
This. Pissing off the entire world, and especially the countries where radical terrorist ideology has a foothold with high-profile policies that affect mostly the everyday people there is supposed to be how we fight terrorism? It's literally the most mindblowingly stupid thing I can think of.
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On January 29 2017 08:27 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:20 nojok wrote:On January 29 2017 08:13 zlefin wrote:On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast. the US always put its own interests first anyways, and already had strict vetting systems in place. it's odd how people have this bizarre belief that the us wasn't always putting its interests first. and him not putting SA on the list just demonstrates he's not really doing it to do the right thing. the green card holder issue is demonstrative of what people have been saying about trump since before the election: he's incompetent at the job, regardless of ideological merit or agreement, he's just not competent for it. It's a bit early but I'm starting to wonder if he will finish his term. Any Americans are thinking about this already? some americans who really didn't like him in the first place have been thinking about it the entire time. In terms of actually getting enoug political support to remove him, it's nowhere near that yet, nor is there any significant movement toward that. iirc the betting sites have odds on him getting impeached or otherwise not lasting through the term with a real chance; of course those can be manipulated by wishful thinking or people trying to manipulate them to look good, since some people have started using them as estimates for reality. they also fluctuate alot of course. e.g. http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/us-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=2657726
o this is interesting.
To NOT complete his 1st term in office 11/8
Will Trump be Impeached in his First Term?
Yes 11/4
None of the bets look particulary attractive, at 4/1 maybe for the first one. Its kinda odd,apearently they judge the change that trump will not complete his first term without being impeached rather high. I wonder what could make him not end his first term without impeachment. Voluntary resign and dying are the only 2 options left I think.
I doubt it will come to an impeachement,didnt Nixon get the honor to withdraw himself instead of being impeached? Maybe trump will be given the same deal to safe everyones face. The 2nd bet does look like the least attractive of the 2.
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On January 29 2017 09:29 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:27 zlefin wrote:On January 29 2017 08:20 nojok wrote:On January 29 2017 08:13 zlefin wrote:On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast. the US always put its own interests first anyways, and already had strict vetting systems in place. it's odd how people have this bizarre belief that the us wasn't always putting its interests first. and him not putting SA on the list just demonstrates he's not really doing it to do the right thing. the green card holder issue is demonstrative of what people have been saying about trump since before the election: he's incompetent at the job, regardless of ideological merit or agreement, he's just not competent for it. It's a bit early but I'm starting to wonder if he will finish his term. Any Americans are thinking about this already? some americans who really didn't like him in the first place have been thinking about it the entire time. In terms of actually getting enoug political support to remove him, it's nowhere near that yet, nor is there any significant movement toward that. iirc the betting sites have odds on him getting impeached or otherwise not lasting through the term with a real chance; of course those can be manipulated by wishful thinking or people trying to manipulate them to look good, since some people have started using them as estimates for reality. they also fluctuate alot of course. e.g. http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/us-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=2657726 o this is interesting. To NOT complete his 1st term in office 11/8 Will Trump be Impeached in his First Term? Yes 11/4 None of the bets look particulary attractive, at 4/1 maybe for the first one. Its kinda odd,apearently they judge the change that trump will not complete his first term without being impeached rather high. I wonder what could make him not end his first term without impeachment. Voluntary resign and dying are the only 2 options left I think. I doubt it will come to an impeachement,didnt Nixon get the honor to withdraw himself instead of being impeached? Maybe trump will be given the same deal to safe everyones face. The 2nd bet does look like the least attractive of the 2.
Impeached is kind of an odd word, as Clinton was impeached but not convicted. An actual impeachment + conviction by the Senate only happened to Andrew Johnson iirc.
This particular group of GOP members of the house are extremely unlikely to impeach him under any circumstances, however. If he does something truly atrocious they'll just go radio silent on the issue and wait to lose in the 2018 midterms for other people to impeach him.
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On January 29 2017 09:29 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 08:27 zlefin wrote:On January 29 2017 08:20 nojok wrote:On January 29 2017 08:13 zlefin wrote:On January 29 2017 08:08 biology]major wrote:
Glad Trump is following through on his campaign promise to ban from these countries. Just like the wall, it's another gesture to the world that the USA is putting it's own interests first and also an important signal to the world that islam (although indirectly) is not to be fully embraced readily. I'm saddened that Saudi Arabia and UAE are not part of this list. It just goes to show how dependent we are on these countries and the hypocrisy of our alliances. The green card holders being stopped from re-entering the country is also fucked up, that shit better get fixed fast. the US always put its own interests first anyways, and already had strict vetting systems in place. it's odd how people have this bizarre belief that the us wasn't always putting its interests first. and him not putting SA on the list just demonstrates he's not really doing it to do the right thing. the green card holder issue is demonstrative of what people have been saying about trump since before the election: he's incompetent at the job, regardless of ideological merit or agreement, he's just not competent for it. It's a bit early but I'm starting to wonder if he will finish his term. Any Americans are thinking about this already? some americans who really didn't like him in the first place have been thinking about it the entire time. In terms of actually getting enoug political support to remove him, it's nowhere near that yet, nor is there any significant movement toward that. iirc the betting sites have odds on him getting impeached or otherwise not lasting through the term with a real chance; of course those can be manipulated by wishful thinking or people trying to manipulate them to look good, since some people have started using them as estimates for reality. they also fluctuate alot of course. e.g. http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/us-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=2657726 o this is interesting. To NOT complete his 1st term in office 11/8 Will Trump be Impeached in his First Term? Yes 11/4 None of the bets look particulary attractive, at 4/1 maybe for the first one. Its kinda odd,apearently they judge the change that trump will not complete his first term without being impeached rather high. I wonder what could make him not end his first term without impeachment. Voluntary resign and dying are the only 2 options left I think. I doubt it will come to an impeachement,didnt Nixon get the honor to withdraw himself instead of being impeached? Maybe trump will be given the same deal to safe everyones face. The 2nd bet does look like the least attractive of the 2.
yes Nixon withdrew before being impeached, I dont' think he was given one of those "resign or you'll be fired" offers, I think he just saw the writing on the wall as did everyone else, and the process for impeaching had plenty of support and would've happened soon, so he preemptively resigned. but i'm not completely clear on what happened in the backrooms, so I might be off.
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it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!"
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On January 29 2017 09:42 biology]major wrote:
it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!"
You're saying this like it wouldn't be true, and like everyone hasn't been saying that since he announced this moronic policy.
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On January 29 2017 09:45 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2017 09:42 biology]major wrote:
it's only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens and Trump gets blamed by leftists. "You angered the islamic extremists!" You're saying this like it wouldn't be true, and like everyone hasn't been saying that since he announced this moronic policy.
I don't put the blame of a terrorist commiting crimes on anyone but the terrorist. This approach of pretending it doesn't exist (obama strategy) by not even mentioning the word islam is pure cowardice. Push it under the rug and hope for the best, ISIS will go away eventually!
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