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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:01 DannyJ wrote: Pretty sure people are overreacting to this. It's certainly worrisome in some concrete ways but the man isn't going to destroy the world in 4 years. No he won't because the world will be in nuclear war under him in 4 months User was warned for this post | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
problem is running against 'the people' isnt likely to win, even if it is the right thing to do whatever trump does wont help rural america, but at least they can die happy | ||
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zeo
Serbia6306 Posts
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Supter
France382 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:01 DannyJ wrote: Pretty sure people are overreacting to this. It's certainly worrisome in some concrete ways but the man isn't going to destroy the world in 4 years. Presidents aren't omnipotent, especially ones like Trump who will even have members of his own party giving him endless shit. Not to mention Donald is such a wildcard who in the flying fuck knows what he will really do when he actually has power. I'm pretty sure he knew most if not all of his grand ideas were impossible. He just knew he could strike a cord with the dullard masses and become President saying it... Well, the Congress and SCOTUS are republican-controlled now. And seeing how, socially, republicans are way less progressive than most of Europe, it's obvious that it is bad news for european posters. Workers right won't improve (and it's in a terrible state in the US atm) and unions are nowhere to be seen, rights for minorities either, and social progress is out the windows. There's still hope economically, or that the congress will be democrat (maybe even with a strong Sanders movement) comes 2018, but it's hardly a silver lining. | ||
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Penev
28503 Posts
the brexit mentality | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16998 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:00 oneofthem wrote: it was always incumbent on hrc to fight the policy argument fight. against a populist headwind to be sure, but polling obscured need for this. messaging strategy is a fail for only engaging with aboveboard narratives and failing to engage the derided alts from both left and right. this was difficult but it had to be done, given extreme reliance on fake news and social media. in previous elections i'd hear about how and why the candidates plan for the economy would improve things. the candidates would debate the merits of their plans. sometimes there would be policy changes during the campaign to appease voters and appear logical and reasonable when holes were found in their strategies. there was none of this in this election. the candidates just spewed catchphrases and slogans at each other. On November 09 2016 21:07 zeo wrote: The Republican party hasn't been this strong since 1928. Think about how bad of a candidate Clinton was. define strength? Trump lost the popular vote | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4550 Posts
On November 09 2016 19:57 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: This makes you sound happy he was murdered... yeah real morale highground you got there Don't put words in my mouth. I only implied that Fortuyn's party may have been a lot more popular if he wasn't murdered the week before the election. Nothing in my post suggests that I support the assassination. FWIW I think it's absolute bullshit that Van der graaf was only in prison for 12 years and is now happily studying to become a lawyer. What a precedent. | ||
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Loccstana
United States833 Posts
"And he who would be a creator in good and evil—truly he must first be a destroyer and break values. Thus the greatest evil belongs with the greatest good: but this is the creative good" "The good—they cannot create; they are always the beginning of the end. They crucify him who writes new values on new law tables; they sacrifice the future to themselves; they crucify the whole future of humanity! The good—they are always the beginning of the end. And whatever harm the slanderers of the world may do, the harm of the good is the most harmful of all” "When the herd animal basks in the glorious rays of the highest virtue the exceptional man must be devalued as the wicked man. If falsehood insists at all costs on claiming the word "truth” for its own, the real truth must be found among the despised." “My formula for human greatness is amor fati: that one wants nothing to be different, not in the future, not in the past, not for all eternity. Not only to endure what is necessary, still less to conceal it — all idealism is falseness in the face of necessity — , but to love it...” | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
Even within the campaign, I think Trump's tone already weakened. The republican dominance in senate etc is a bit worrying though. The democratic party should get their shit together and cut off the cancerous corrupt parts. If Trump fucks up, you'll have a free election afterwards. | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4550 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:11 Yorbon wrote: The democratic party should get their shit together and cut off the cancerous corrupt parts. If Trump fucks up, you'll have a free election afterwards. The corruption goes all the way to the top, how do you solve that? Do you think they're likely to own up to their mistakes and all quit? Seems unlikely to me. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:01 DannyJ wrote: Pretty sure people are overreacting to this. It's certainly worrisome in some concrete ways but the man isn't going to destroy the world in 4 years. Presidents aren't omnipotent, especially ones like Trump who will even have members of his own party giving him endless shit. Not to mention Donald is such a wildcard who in the flying fuck knows what he will really do when he actually has power. I'm pretty sure he knew most if not all of his grand ideas were impossible. He just knew he could strike a cord with the dullard masses and become President saying it... I think it is a good opportunity to purposely leverage peoples fear of Trump to make them realize that Europe doesn't need to be Americas lapdog. Look at what America did people. If we start falling apart as a continent now and don't instead unite in the face of this potential source of fascism, we will succumb to it as well -- if not by voting for it ourselves like idiots, then by the nuclear bombs from them or the current or next lunatic that runs Russia. Or maybe it will be terrorism, or global warming that gets us. In none of these cases can we rely on the Americans to lead us to a world of sensibility, we are going to have to do it ourselves. It's time to organize and unite Europe. Here's to the rest of our lives. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:01 DannyJ wrote: Pretty sure people are overreacting to this. It's certainly worrisome in some concrete ways but the man isn't going to destroy the world in 4 years. Presidents aren't omnipotent, especially ones like Trump who will even have members of his own party giving him endless shit. Not to mention Donald is such a wildcard who in the flying fuck knows what he will really do when he actually has power. I'm pretty sure he knew most if not all of his grand ideas were impossible. He just knew he could strike a cord with the dullard masses and become President saying it... In my line of work (religious ministry), I come into contact with a lot of rape survivors. It doesn't even exactly matter if he does anything at all... the fact that someone with such clearly misogynistic tendencies can be elected, over the voices of all his accusers, causes these people to relive the experience of being doubted and told to be quiet. I spent a good chunk of last night on the phone with various people reassuring them that his election didn't mean we, as a society, are going to turn back on our progress in raising awareness of rape culture. That's one example of a reason why real people are upset. Yes, as a straight, cis white or asian man with a decent job, your life under Trump won't be all that different, except for the various effects of a weaker economy if he decides to fight trade wars. But the lives of LGBTQ folks are gonna be a lot harder. They will get refused service, and his Supreme Court will sign off on it. The lives of Black people will be harder... police impunity will be encouraged culturally, and his Supreme Court will sign off on it. Nevermind Muslims, immigrants, Spanish-speakers, refugees... Oh, and if you had a preexisting condition or you were poor and needed help getting healthcare, you are suddenly SOL. | ||
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Noidberg
United States17 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:07 zeo wrote: The Republican party hasn't been this strong since 1928. Think about how bad of a candidate Clinton was. Yes we want isolationism like way back when not this new age globalism hooey. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21952 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:09 Laurens wrote: Don't put words in my mouth. I only implied that Fortuyn's party may have been a lot more popular if he wasn't murdered the week before the election. Nothing in my post suggests that I support the assassination. FWIW I think it's absolute bullshit that Van der graaf was only in prison for 12 years and is now happily studying to become a lawyer. What a precedent. Ehm Fortyn's death didn't lose his party votes. The general feeling is that it actually won them votes. However the party completely blew itself up without his leadership (and may have done so if he had been alive aswell). | ||
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xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
On November 09 2016 20:27 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Victory speech surprisingly respectful towards Clinton I've always had this fantasy: Trump, being a businessman, might not actually believe in all that shit he spouts. He saw a large, growing group of voters who were left unaddressed- just like an untapped market- and decided to cater to it for votes. He appeals to them all the way, and eventually wins the election. Then he shows his true face- that of an actual centrist who legit can run the country well- and America really becomes great again. It's a fantasy, but with what has happened one can only hope. All the best to America! That which has happened, has happened, and now we can only hope the new president sincerely does not disappoint. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
It's all the Democrats' fault though, should have chosen Sanders. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6306 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote: define strength? Trump lost the popular vote They haven't had this much control of the government in close to 90 years. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:11 Loccstana wrote: I find these quotes by Nietzsche to be quite relevant: "And he who would be a creator in good and evil—truly he must first be a destroyer and break values. Thus the greatest evil belongs with the greatest good: but this is the creative good" "The good—they cannot create; they are always the beginning of the end. They crucify him who writes new values on new law tables; they sacrifice the future to themselves; they crucify the whole future of humanity! The good—they are always the beginning of the end. And whatever harm the slanderers of the world may do, the harm of the good is the most harmful of all” "When the herd animal basks in the glorious rays of the highest virtue the exceptional man must be devalued as the wicked man. If falsehood insists at all costs on claiming the word "truth” for its own, the real truth must be found among the despised." “My formula for human greatness is amor fati: that one wants nothing to be different, not in the future, not in the past, not for all eternity. Not only to endure what is necessary, still less to conceal it — all idealism is falseness in the face of necessity — , but to love it...” Trump isn't a Fascist! How dare you accuse him of that! But, to inform you about his philosophy, I recommend you spend some time reading the works of one F. Nietzsche.+ Show Spoiler + And before anybody gives me any of that "Nietzsche condemned the anti-semites" crap, his grounds for doing so were that they didn't take the amoralism far enough... and anyway he believed in the Jews being behind a "vast, subterranean conspiracy." User was warned for this post | ||
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Penev
28503 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:09 Laurens wrote: Don't put words in my mouth. I only implied that Fortuyn's party may have been a lot more popular if he wasn't murdered the week before the election. Nothing in my post suggests that I support the assassination. FWIW I think it's absolute bullshit that Van der graaf was only in prison for 12 years and is now happily studying to become a lawyer. What a precedent. Fortyuns murder didn't affect the elections for his party negatively, on the contrary even. But besides him being way less ignorant (politically and otherwise) only up to a quarter of the population voted for him, not half. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On November 09 2016 21:07 zeo wrote: The Republican party hasn't been this strong since 1928. Think about how bad of a candidate Clinton was. Are we ignoring all the years they actually won the popular vote for a reason orrrr | ||
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