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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 04 2016 23:44 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 23:38 oneofthem wrote:On November 04 2016 23:34 farvacola wrote:On November 04 2016 23:30 bo1b wrote:On November 04 2016 23:26 farvacola wrote:On November 04 2016 23:25 Uldridge wrote:
Will this have been the most drama filled election in US history?
It's just astounding howmuch shit keeps hitting the fan every moment.. Truly incredible I doubt it; the elections leading up to and surrounding the Civil War likely put this one to shame in that department, though it's virtually impossible to go about qualifying such an observation. I think in context this blows it far out of the water though. The existential crisis of America today would not rate to that of a pre civil war America. It's fairly incredible that I agree with certain posters in this thread that I honestly never thought I would. For shame. I'm not sure what you're saying; while I'm inclined to suggest that literally nothing in US History can trump the secession crisis incident to the Civil War, arguments of comparative history are largely useless so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, if I'm understanding you correctly. Current times are interesting enough in their own right  civil war was pretty positive from a nation building perspective. could do without the war, but that blood was not spilled in vain. That's an extremely controversial notion though, that the blood spilled during the Civil War was not in vain. Many would point to the failures of Reconstruction and the Jim Crow Era, along with still present systemic North/South splits on issues, as evidence that the Civil War was ultimately ineffective at addressing the issues that gave rise to its occurrence. I'm not sure I agree with that assessment nor am I sure that it means that the Civil War was fought in vain, but it suggests that qualifying various periods in history as good or bad relative to over-isolated variables is mostly a fools errand without a lot of time, patience, and a willingness to get historiographically dirty with breaking up assumptive bases. In other words, reference to the Civil War notwithstanding, this election cycle certainly can stand on its own with regards to noteworthy implications.
these failures were not due to radical republicans at either grassroot and leadership level. if anything it just didnt succeed enough.
in terms of heroes and baddies the pro war guys on the union side were pretty good, both the nationalists and anti-slavery guys.
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On November 05 2016 00:47 Oswald wrote:
As someone who has really only become politically sentient during this election, are the polling levels for third party candidates usually this high? The amount of support that Gary Johnson is garnering is sickening. I don't understand how anyone can support him after watching any of his interviews. I'm terrified this is going to be another Ralph Nader/Al Gore fiasco, except with even more dire consequences.
As far as I remember the 3rd party candidates usually score around 5%. Current support for them to me is disappointing. Its kinda interesting,even with 2 candidates that are seen unfavorable by a large amount of voters the voters still wont vote 3rd party. I think many people don't even consider it.
Its a lost vote in the end due to the system.
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On November 05 2016 00:59 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 00:47 Oswald wrote:
As someone who has really only become politically sentient during this election, are the polling levels for third party candidates usually this high? The amount of support that Gary Johnson is garnering is sickening. I don't understand how anyone can support him after watching any of his interviews. I'm terrified this is going to be another Ralph Nader/Al Gore fiasco, except with even more dire consequences. As far as I remember the 3rd party candidates usually score around 5%. Current support for them to me is disappointing. Its kinda interesting,even with 2 candidates that are seen unfavorable by a large amount of voters the voters still wont vote 3rd party. I think many people don't even consider it. Its a lost vote in the end due to the system.
Well, the third party candidates are horrendous themselves, so that makes it hard to vote for them.
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On November 05 2016 00:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 00:53 pmh wrote:On November 04 2016 23:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:The government, delivering the last major snapshot of the economy before Election Day, reported on Friday that employers added 161,000 workers in October, a performance that suggested a healthy outlook for the months ahead.
The official unemployment rate dropped to 4.9 percent, from 5 percent. And average hourly earnings rose 2.8 percent year over year, a level not reached since 2008.
“It was pretty positive across the board,” said David Berson, chief economist at Nationwide Insurance, adding that “most importantly, we got a nice jump in average hourly earnings and that actually corresponds with other data.”
While the final weeks of the presidential campaign seemed to be preoccupied with everything but the economy, Friday’s report from the Labor Department refocused attention — at least briefly — on the crucial bread-and-butter issue: jobs. For the candidates, the latest employment report serves as a Rorschach test, allowing each side to offer its own distinctive narrative of the economy’s performance and prospects.
As Vincent Reinhart, chief economist at Standish Mellon, explained, “The main message is from the payroll report: Jobs are being created and earnings are going up.” But a report that goes “right down the middle of the fairway,” he added, “means you can spin it any way you want.”
Donald J. Trump, who was propelled to the top of the Republican ticket in part by nagging economic anxiety and a surge in voter anger among the white working class, has emphasized the negatives.
He has argued that jobs have been disappearing, highlighting the continuing loss of well-paid manufacturing jobs as production moves to other countries. October’s report showed continued decline in that sector, with the loss of 9,000 jobs.
The Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton, by contrast, has emphasized the progress that President Obama made in digging the country out of the recession, pointing to the creation of roughly 15 million jobs since 2010.
The data on Friday also showed that more jobs were created in August and September than previously estimated. The revisions showed 44,000 more positions had been created, bringing the monthly average over the last three months to 176,000. Even more encouraging was the robust bump in wages, the most concrete sign that the labor market is tightening, and that ordinary workers are finally getting a slice of the rewards. Source It can only get worse you would think,the coming president will have a difficult time with the economy either way. The current economy is artificially inflated with like 3 trillion+ dollars. Fed planning to tighten. Maybe a trump presidency would not be that bad ,then they have an outsider to blame. Replace him in 1-2 years and we are ready for the next monetairy boom. Um….they can’t remove a president for doing a bad job. Its 4 years until we find out they committed some terrible crime. And then congress has to remove them.
They can I think, for doing a bad job. If the senate and house don't support him at all and all want to see him go,how can he remain in power? They could impeach him for being a thread to the stability of the country or maybe even treason (rusia) ,i dunno but if "everyone" wants him gone then I think it will be possible.
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On November 05 2016 00:59 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 00:47 Oswald wrote:
As someone who has really only become politically sentient during this election, are the polling levels for third party candidates usually this high? The amount of support that Gary Johnson is garnering is sickening. I don't understand how anyone can support him after watching any of his interviews. I'm terrified this is going to be another Ralph Nader/Al Gore fiasco, except with even more dire consequences. As far as I remember the 3rd party candidates usually score around 5%. Current support for them to me is disappointing. Its kinda interesting,even with 2 candidates that are seen unfavorable by a large amount of voters the voters still wont vote 3rd party. I think many people don't even consider it. Its a lost vote in the end due to the system.
lower than 5, otherwise theyd get campaign funds and debater appearances
third party candidates are no good. green is completely nuts and incompetent. imn not sure how johnson was as a governor, but i feel like he used to be a bit less looney - weld is ok. mcmullin is a decent guy, but he's the third party candidate of third party candidates - though if he won utah that'd be hilarious.
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I have noticed this trend of Trump super fans and a complete failure of civics education. I’m not surprised, but it is depressing.
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On November 05 2016 00:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 00:03 The_Templar wrote:On November 04 2016 23:54 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On November 04 2016 23:26 farvacola wrote:On November 04 2016 23:25 Uldridge wrote:
Will this have been the most drama filled election in US history?
It's just astounding howmuch shit keeps hitting the fan every moment.. Truly incredible I doubt it; the elections leading up to and surrounding the Civil War likely put this one to shame in that department, though it's virtually impossible to go about qualifying such an observation. Decent chance whoever wins that there will be a civil war in the US again. We're just looking at polar opposites the two sides here. Can you imagine for instance San Francisco if Trump wins? Chaos.Ungovernable.Guaranteed riots in the streets, guaranteed. A Clinton win, just 11 days after a fresh FBI investigation launched? No, that ain't healthy for civil order either. Don't be ridiculous. There won't be a civil war over the result of a single election. Has there been a time since the civil war when America was this divided? And IMO the division is getting worse not better.
This is a textbook case of, "My time is the most dramatic/intense ever!"
Many people (particularly younger individuals) do this a lot; they see strife or difficulty in their time and think that it could have never been this bad, without having any real perspective on what was really happening throughout history.
There have been some pretty awful times in American history. This definitely isn't one of the worst. The economy is doing fairly well, crime is down, etc. etc. etc. The only thing that makes it seem bad is social media-driven echo chambers that constantly perpetuate lies and myths to galvanize each side's unbridled anger at each other.
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On November 05 2016 01:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 00:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On November 05 2016 00:03 The_Templar wrote:On November 04 2016 23:54 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On November 04 2016 23:26 farvacola wrote:On November 04 2016 23:25 Uldridge wrote:
Will this have been the most drama filled election in US history?
It's just astounding howmuch shit keeps hitting the fan every moment.. Truly incredible I doubt it; the elections leading up to and surrounding the Civil War likely put this one to shame in that department, though it's virtually impossible to go about qualifying such an observation. Decent chance whoever wins that there will be a civil war in the US again. We're just looking at polar opposites the two sides here. Can you imagine for instance San Francisco if Trump wins? Chaos.Ungovernable.Guaranteed riots in the streets, guaranteed. A Clinton win, just 11 days after a fresh FBI investigation launched? No, that ain't healthy for civil order either. Don't be ridiculous. There won't be a civil war over the result of a single election. Has there been a time since the civil war when America was this divided? And IMO the division is getting worse not better. This is a textbook case of, "My time is the most dramatic/intense ever!" Many people (particularly younger individuals) do this a lot; they see strife or difficulty in their time and think that it could have never been this bad, without having any real perspective on what was really happening throughout history. There have been some pretty awful times in American history. This definitely isn't one of the worst. The economy is doing fairly well, crime is down, etc. etc. etc. The only thing that makes it seem bad is social media-driven echo chambers that constantly perpetuate lies and myths to galvanize each side's unbridled anger at each other.
This must the worst time of media perpetuating lies and galvanization ever.
On November 05 2016 01:06 Plansix wrote:
I have noticed this trend of Trump super fans and a complete failure of civics education. I’m not surprised, but it is depressing.
I've noticed this trend of Hillary supporters shitting on Trump supporters. I'm not surprised, but it is depressing.
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On November 05 2016 01:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 00:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On November 05 2016 00:03 The_Templar wrote:On November 04 2016 23:54 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On November 04 2016 23:26 farvacola wrote:On November 04 2016 23:25 Uldridge wrote:
Will this have been the most drama filled election in US history?
It's just astounding howmuch shit keeps hitting the fan every moment.. Truly incredible I doubt it; the elections leading up to and surrounding the Civil War likely put this one to shame in that department, though it's virtually impossible to go about qualifying such an observation. Decent chance whoever wins that there will be a civil war in the US again. We're just looking at polar opposites the two sides here. Can you imagine for instance San Francisco if Trump wins? Chaos.Ungovernable.Guaranteed riots in the streets, guaranteed. A Clinton win, just 11 days after a fresh FBI investigation launched? No, that ain't healthy for civil order either. Don't be ridiculous. There won't be a civil war over the result of a single election. Has there been a time since the civil war when America was this divided? And IMO the division is getting worse not better. This is a textbook case of, "My time is the most dramatic/intense ever!"
Same deal as people thinking Bernie was some kinda MLK
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On November 05 2016 01:04 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 00:55 Plansix wrote:On November 05 2016 00:53 pmh wrote:On November 04 2016 23:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:The government, delivering the last major snapshot of the economy before Election Day, reported on Friday that employers added 161,000 workers in October, a performance that suggested a healthy outlook for the months ahead.
The official unemployment rate dropped to 4.9 percent, from 5 percent. And average hourly earnings rose 2.8 percent year over year, a level not reached since 2008.
“It was pretty positive across the board,” said David Berson, chief economist at Nationwide Insurance, adding that “most importantly, we got a nice jump in average hourly earnings and that actually corresponds with other data.”
While the final weeks of the presidential campaign seemed to be preoccupied with everything but the economy, Friday’s report from the Labor Department refocused attention — at least briefly — on the crucial bread-and-butter issue: jobs. For the candidates, the latest employment report serves as a Rorschach test, allowing each side to offer its own distinctive narrative of the economy’s performance and prospects.
As Vincent Reinhart, chief economist at Standish Mellon, explained, “The main message is from the payroll report: Jobs are being created and earnings are going up.” But a report that goes “right down the middle of the fairway,” he added, “means you can spin it any way you want.”
Donald J. Trump, who was propelled to the top of the Republican ticket in part by nagging economic anxiety and a surge in voter anger among the white working class, has emphasized the negatives.
He has argued that jobs have been disappearing, highlighting the continuing loss of well-paid manufacturing jobs as production moves to other countries. October’s report showed continued decline in that sector, with the loss of 9,000 jobs.
The Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton, by contrast, has emphasized the progress that President Obama made in digging the country out of the recession, pointing to the creation of roughly 15 million jobs since 2010.
The data on Friday also showed that more jobs were created in August and September than previously estimated. The revisions showed 44,000 more positions had been created, bringing the monthly average over the last three months to 176,000. Even more encouraging was the robust bump in wages, the most concrete sign that the labor market is tightening, and that ordinary workers are finally getting a slice of the rewards. Source It can only get worse you would think,the coming president will have a difficult time with the economy either way. The current economy is artificially inflated with like 3 trillion+ dollars. Fed planning to tighten. Maybe a trump presidency would not be that bad ,then they have an outsider to blame. Replace him in 1-2 years and we are ready for the next monetairy boom. Um….they can’t remove a president for doing a bad job. Its 4 years until we find out they committed some terrible crime. And then congress has to remove them. They can I think, for doing a bad job. If the senate and house don't support him at all and all want to see him go,how can he remain in power. But there are also alternative ways. They can just dig long enough till they found something.
This comes up a lot.
When anti-Trumpers bring up the fact that Trump has repeatedly espoused dangerous, fascist ideas and that his policy proposals spell out unmitigated disaster for our country, it's either "Oh he'll be gone in four years", or "he can be impeached and won't have the support of Congress/the military/etc.".
First, the idea that "he'll be gone in 4 years" is an incredibly selfish and privileged position that is almost identical to Biologymajor's train of thought; "his disastrous, racist, sexist, and otherwise bigoted policies won't affect me that much, so it's fine if he runs the country into the ground." That's not an ethically or realistically acceptable way of thinking about the near future. Not only are you voting to do significant harm to your fellow citizens, but their negative effects will have further negative effects on the social and economic well-being of the entire country.
Second, Republicans have repeatedly shown themselves to be incapable of admitting wrong-doing or doing what is actually right instead of playing politics like sports and sticking with their team no matter what. I have absolutely zero faith in the Republican establishment breaking from Trump and opposing him if he does any of the incredibly fascist things he said he would do with the executive office. There's no way in hell they would admit that they made such a horrible mistake in supporting him through all of the disgusting stuff that he's said and done through the last year and actually grow a fucking spine and stand up to him.
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On November 05 2016 01:06 Plansix wrote:
I have noticed this trend of Trump super fans and a complete failure of civics education. I’m not surprised, but it is depressing.
You really think they cant remove trump if both the democrats and the republicans want to?
The republicans will hold onto him for as long as possible, to get justices in court and maybe repeal Obama care,but once he is done with the core points of the republican agenda then their temporary loyalty will be gone as his presidency will no longer have value for them.
The more I think about it,the more attractive this scenario starts to look. It would cement the power of the classical political elite for at least a decade to come. People wont risk voting for an outsider again. It just feels like a perfect scenario,everything coming together with the economic downturn that is inevitable in the near future unless the fed keeps pumping.
But perfect scenarios in my head usually never happen so I wouldn't dare to say that this is likely.
Most likely is still that Clinton will win I think, unless we get another surprise which I do not expect.
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On November 05 2016 01:18 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 01:06 Plansix wrote:
I have noticed this trend of Trump super fans and a complete failure of civics education. I’m not surprised, but it is depressing. You really think they cant remove trump if both the democrats and the republicans want to? The republicans will hold onto him for as long as possible, to get justices in court and maybe repeal Obama care,but once he is done with the core points of the republican agenda then their temporary loyalty will be gone as his presidency will no longer have value for them. The more I think about it,the more attractive this scenario starts to look. It would cement the power of the classical political elite for at least a decade to come. People wont risk voting for an outsider again. It just feels like a perfect scenario,everything coming together with the economic downturn that is inevitable in the near future unless the fed keeps pumping. But perfect scenarios in my head usually never happen so I wouldn't dare to say that this is likely.
Kicking Trump out of the white house after he got elected could have quite the opposite effect. It'd be like killing Jesus and thinking "Well, that's Christianity dealt with"
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On November 05 2016 01:21 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 01:18 pmh wrote:On November 05 2016 01:06 Plansix wrote:
I have noticed this trend of Trump super fans and a complete failure of civics education. I’m not surprised, but it is depressing. You really think they cant remove trump if both the democrats and the republicans want to? The republicans will hold onto him for as long as possible, to get justices in court and maybe repeal Obama care,but once he is done with the core points of the republican agenda then their temporary loyalty will be gone as his presidency will no longer have value for them. The more I think about it,the more attractive this scenario starts to look. It would cement the power of the classical political elite for at least a decade to come. People wont risk voting for an outsider again. It just feels like a perfect scenario,everything coming together with the economic downturn that is inevitable in the near future unless the fed keeps pumping. But perfect scenarios in my head usually never happen so I wouldn't dare to say that this is likely. Kicking Trump out of the white house after he got elected could have quite the opposite effect. It'd be like killing Jesus and thinking "Well, that's Christianity dealt with"
Not right away off course. First fed needs to tighten to trigger the economic downturn,then trump will no longer be seen as the savior. But this is very speculative I have to admit and not all that likely,so maybe not apropiate for this forum. I will stop with my borderline conspiracy theories.
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On November 05 2016 01:14 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 01:04 pmh wrote:On November 05 2016 00:55 Plansix wrote:On November 05 2016 00:53 pmh wrote:On November 04 2016 23:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:The government, delivering the last major snapshot of the economy before Election Day, reported on Friday that employers added 161,000 workers in October, a performance that suggested a healthy outlook for the months ahead.
The official unemployment rate dropped to 4.9 percent, from 5 percent. And average hourly earnings rose 2.8 percent year over year, a level not reached since 2008.
“It was pretty positive across the board,” said David Berson, chief economist at Nationwide Insurance, adding that “most importantly, we got a nice jump in average hourly earnings and that actually corresponds with other data.”
While the final weeks of the presidential campaign seemed to be preoccupied with everything but the economy, Friday’s report from the Labor Department refocused attention — at least briefly — on the crucial bread-and-butter issue: jobs. For the candidates, the latest employment report serves as a Rorschach test, allowing each side to offer its own distinctive narrative of the economy’s performance and prospects.
As Vincent Reinhart, chief economist at Standish Mellon, explained, “The main message is from the payroll report: Jobs are being created and earnings are going up.” But a report that goes “right down the middle of the fairway,” he added, “means you can spin it any way you want.”
Donald J. Trump, who was propelled to the top of the Republican ticket in part by nagging economic anxiety and a surge in voter anger among the white working class, has emphasized the negatives.
He has argued that jobs have been disappearing, highlighting the continuing loss of well-paid manufacturing jobs as production moves to other countries. October’s report showed continued decline in that sector, with the loss of 9,000 jobs.
The Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton, by contrast, has emphasized the progress that President Obama made in digging the country out of the recession, pointing to the creation of roughly 15 million jobs since 2010.
The data on Friday also showed that more jobs were created in August and September than previously estimated. The revisions showed 44,000 more positions had been created, bringing the monthly average over the last three months to 176,000. Even more encouraging was the robust bump in wages, the most concrete sign that the labor market is tightening, and that ordinary workers are finally getting a slice of the rewards. Source It can only get worse you would think,the coming president will have a difficult time with the economy either way. The current economy is artificially inflated with like 3 trillion+ dollars. Fed planning to tighten. Maybe a trump presidency would not be that bad ,then they have an outsider to blame. Replace him in 1-2 years and we are ready for the next monetairy boom. Um….they can’t remove a president for doing a bad job. Its 4 years until we find out they committed some terrible crime. And then congress has to remove them. They can I think, for doing a bad job. If the senate and house don't support him at all and all want to see him go,how can he remain in power. But there are also alternative ways. They can just dig long enough till they found something. This comes up a lot. When anti-Trumpers bring up the fact that Trump has repeatedly espoused dangerous, fascist ideas and that his policy proposals spell out unmitigated disaster for our country, it's either "Oh he'll be gone in four years", or "he can be impeached and won't have the support of Congress/the military/etc.". First, the idea that "he'll be gone in 4 years" is an incredibly selfish and privileged position that is almost identical to Biologymajor's train of thought; "his disastrous, racist, sexist, and otherwise bigoted policies won't affect me that much, so it's fine if he runs the country into the ground." That's not an ethically or realistically acceptable way of thinking about the near future. Not only are you voting to do significant harm to your fellow citizens, but their negative effects will have further negative effects on the social and economic well-being of the entire country. Second, Republicans have repeatedly shown themselves to be incapable of admitting wrong-doing or doing what is actually right instead of playing politics like sports and sticking with their team no matter what. I have absolutely zero faith in the Republican establishment breaking from Trump and opposing him if he does any of the incredibly fascist things he said he would do with the executive office. There's no way in hell they would admit that they made such a horrible mistake in supporting him through all of the disgusting stuff that he's said and done through the last year and actually grow a fucking spine and stand up to him.
I fucking hate Trump but I could imagine myself as a conservative who would vote for Trump with the belief that he will simply be a figurehead. Pence and the legislature will run the country and while he posts conservative SC justices and runs around bloviating to the base.
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Plus, as a PotUS, he has access to the most horrific arsenal of WMD in history. He has also shown a propensity for not having a clue about the repercussions of using nuclear weapons. This is NOT something that an impeachment or an election in 4 years can fix, this has the potential to fuck humankind. Excuse the hyperbole, but electing an utter moron into such a position is scary af. I implore all eligible to vote in the US election to take this in consideration when casting their vote. You might not only fuck your own country, your vote might have a disastrous impact for the whole world.
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The bigger question to me is whether Congress will be able to do anything if the Republicans maintain a majority. It seems to me that McConnell's "our way or no way" approach has made the legislative branch so weak that I'm actually a little dubious that they would ever manage to act against a Trump agenda, should the need arise.
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Not sure if this is posted yet, but Giuliani is getting fed information from within the FBI to help the Trump campaign. G says he sticks to former agents, but plainly the formers are acting as mirrors to the current agents. FBI has gone full blown partisan. FBI needs oversight and a leaker purge.
“I did nothing to get it out, I had no role in it,” he said. “Did I hear about it? You’re darn right I heard about it, and I can’t even repeat the language that I heard from the former FBI agents.”
He insisted he had nothing to do with Comey’s decision to announce the probe prior to Election Day ― a move that both Republicans and Democrats have condemned. He also insisted his information comes from “former FBI agents.”
“I’m real careful not to talk to any on-duty, active FBI agents. I don’t want to put them in a compromising position. But I sure have a lot of friends who are retired FBI agents, close, personal friends,” Giuliani said. “All I heard were former FBI agents telling me that there’s a revolution going on inside the FBI and it’s now at a boiling point.”
Video from fox:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rudy-giuliani-fbi-clinton-emails_us_581c9e3fe4b0e80b02c93d6b?
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On November 05 2016 01:12 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 01:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 05 2016 00:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On November 05 2016 00:03 The_Templar wrote:On November 04 2016 23:54 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On November 04 2016 23:26 farvacola wrote:On November 04 2016 23:25 Uldridge wrote:
Will this have been the most drama filled election in US history?
It's just astounding howmuch shit keeps hitting the fan every moment.. Truly incredible I doubt it; the elections leading up to and surrounding the Civil War likely put this one to shame in that department, though it's virtually impossible to go about qualifying such an observation. Decent chance whoever wins that there will be a civil war in the US again. We're just looking at polar opposites the two sides here. Can you imagine for instance San Francisco if Trump wins? Chaos.Ungovernable.Guaranteed riots in the streets, guaranteed. A Clinton win, just 11 days after a fresh FBI investigation launched? No, that ain't healthy for civil order either. Don't be ridiculous. There won't be a civil war over the result of a single election. Has there been a time since the civil war when America was this divided? And IMO the division is getting worse not better. This is a textbook case of, "My time is the most dramatic/intense ever!" Many people (particularly younger individuals) do this a lot; they see strife or difficulty in their time and think that it could have never been this bad, without having any real perspective on what was really happening throughout history. There have been some pretty awful times in American history. This definitely isn't one of the worst. The economy is doing fairly well, crime is down, etc. etc. etc. The only thing that makes it seem bad is social media-driven echo chambers that constantly perpetuate lies and myths to galvanize each side's unbridled anger at each other. This must the worst time of media perpetuating lies and galvanization ever. Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 01:06 Plansix wrote:
I have noticed this trend of Trump super fans and a complete failure of civics education. I’m not surprised, but it is depressing. I've noticed this trend of Hillary supporters shitting on Trump supporters. I'm not surprised, but it is depressing.
It is hard to have good faith discussions with folks that are so confident in their ignorance. Many posters, Clinton and Trumps supporters alike, give people the benefit of the doubt in this thread. Or are happy to put in a lot of effort to explain and share knowledge on a number of subjects. But in the last couple of weeks a handful of Trump supporters have downplayed the consequences of a Trump administration with what can only be described as magical thinking. And those sorts of responses drag down the discussion in the thread.
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A purge would definitely help put an end to this wave of neo-McCarthyism: All of those former FBI agents should be fired.
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EPT
